Roy Thornton on thu 6 aug 98
I have recently changed from propane gas to natural gas for convience and am
having problems getting the temp hot enough. Please advise.
Tracy Dotson on fri 7 aug 98
we need to know if you changed your orfices size to Natural gas. Atmosperic
or power burners? Tracy
Marc Ward on fri 7 aug 98
There are a host of challenges when changing from LP (propane) to natural gas
(NG). To begin with, you have moved from a fuel that has 2500 BTU's per cubic
ft to a fuel with roughly 1000 BTU's per cubic foot. This fact, coupled with
lower operating pressures for NG, mean a change of orifices at least. Or, a
completely new burner system at worst. Also be aware that friction loss within
the pipeing and meter capacity can have a great impact on the amount of BTU's
that can be delivered to the kiln site. Here is a quote from our catalog;
<<length of pipe run and the number of turns, pipe size, and the meter capacity
all affect the amount of gas that can be delivered to the kiln. Please consult
with us if you have any questions.>>>
This can be a rather technical issue. There is quite a bit of information I
would need from you to be able to help. This kind of help really doesn't lend
itself to email. So feel free to give me a call.
Marc Ward
Ward Burner Systems
PO Box 333
Dandridge, TN 37725
USA
423.397.2914 voice
423.397.1253 fax
wardburner@aol.com
Kenneth D. Westfall on fri 7 aug 98
Did you change the orifice in the burners? If not that is what is wrong.
If you did the new orifice may still not be large enough. Depending on
your location and gas supply the BTU rating of natural gas can very
greatly. You will need to ask your gas company what the average BTU per
cubic foot is and adjust your orifice size to produce the same BTU that
your propane orifice were putting out. Other problem could be too small of
a pipe feeding the kiln which is starving the burners. To small of a
regulator or meter supplied by the gas company can cause problem. Gas
company are reluctant to set large meters cause of the cost and the low
profit for them if your not a full time potter who will use large amount of
gas.
Kenneth D. Westfall
Pine Hill Pottery
R.D. #2 Box 6AA
Harrisville, WV 26362
pinehill@ruralnet.org
Robert Edney on fri 7 aug 98
Dear Roy,
I would suggest you get a copy of "The Kiln Book" (I'm not where my copy is, but
I think that's the title). Your question can't really be answered without a lot
more detail. For example, did you re-size the orifice(s) when you switched
over? Do you have enough pressure at the meter to start with? Is the line
you've run from the meter large enough? Did you run a line from the meter or
just tap in somewhere under a house? Natural gas is under a lot less pressure
than propane, and you'll need to calculate these things to make it all work.
Roy Thornton wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have recently changed from propane gas to natural gas for convience and am
> having problems getting the temp hot enough. Please advise.
--
Robert Edney
robedney@pacbell.net
http://home.pacbell.net/robedney/index.html
Robert Santerre on fri 7 aug 98
Did you change the orifices in your burners? Natural gas burners use a =
larger
orifice than used for propane. Someone like Mark Ward =
(wardburner=40aol.com) on
this list can give you specifics once he knows what burner(s) you're using.
Bob
rfsanterre=40iquest.net
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
////
----------
From: Roy Thornton=5BSMTP:rthornton=40tsixroads.com=5D
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 1998 8:32 AM
To: CLAYART=40LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Natural gas hook up
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I have recently changed from propane gas to natural gas for convience and am
having problems getting the temp hot enough. Please advise.
Paul Monaghan on fri 7 aug 98
Roy,
the fastest solution is to call the gas company. You must know what
pressure they are feeding you which is determined by the regulator
(meter), pipe size, orifice or burner size, etc.
Paul Monaghan
WEB2U Productions
the SECRETS are at
http://www.web2u.com/secret
Roy Thornton wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> I have recently changed from propane gas to natural gas for convience
> and am
> having problems getting the temp hot enough. Please advise.
Kathi LeSueur on mon 10 aug 98
It sounds like your problem is inadequate gas supply at the kiln. The biggest
problem with converting from propane to natural gas is that often people don't
understand that they are now dealing with gas "volume" instead of gas
"pressure". In most places you are stuck with the pressure coming in from the
street--8 ounces. You need a bigger pipe to carry more volume of gas.
The first thing I would do is check the size of the main line delivering gas
to the kiln. It should be a minimum of 1 1/4" pipe, 1 1/2 is better. Then
check the orifice of your burners. Are you using the same burners that you did
for propane without any modification to the orifice? If yes, then they must be
modified to deliver more gas.
Kathi LeSueur
"Originality is failure to remember"
Roger Korn on wed 12 aug 98
Kathi wrote:
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:40:51 EDT
From: Kathi LeSueur
Subject: Re: Natural gas hook up
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
It sounds like your problem is inadequate gas supply at the kiln. The
biggest
problem with converting from propane to natural gas is that often people
don't
understand that they are now dealing with gas "volume" instead of gas
"pressure". In most places you are stuck with the pressure coming in
from the
street--8 ounces. You need a bigger pipe to carry more volume of gas.
The first thing I would do is check the size of the main line delivering
gas
to the kiln. It should be a minimum of 1 1/4" pipe, 1 1/2 is better.
Then
check the orifice of your burners. Are you using the same burners that
you did
for propane without any modification to the orifice? If yes, then they
must be
modified to deliver more gas.
Kathi LeSueur
"Originality is failure to remember"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Natural gas is typically piped to the meter at 40 pounds per square inch
(PSI), then the pressure is reduced to 8 water column inches (wci) by a
regulator for household use. 8 wci is about .3 PSI. At this low
pressure, the pressure drop at the flow rate required for a typical
(200,000 BTU/hr) kiln is going to be a critical design issue, requiring
the use of large (read EXPENSIVE) pipe from the meter to the kiln.
An excellent alternative is to ask the gas company to install a 2 PSI
(about 55 wci) regulator so you can run 3/4" pipe to the kiln. For your
household service, you still need 8 wci pressure, so you will need to
install a 2PSI to 8wci regulator (about $29 US) for the household
service.
The only hassle is pulling a mechanical permit to get the new gas line
tested so the gas company will install the 2 PSI meter (the gas company
supplies the meter and installation, free, in anticipation of the higher
gas bill they will collect). The permit costs $12.60 US here in Portland
Left.
After all is said and done, for my example, it worked out to spending
about $80 US to build the 45 ft gas line to the kiln, install the
regulator, and get inspected. In return, I have 500,000 BTU/hr available
at the kiln, easy-to-build atmospheric burners (because of the higher
pressure), and no interference between kiln use and household use.
The alternative (1 1/2" pipe from the original meter) would have cost
about $140 US to build and the kiln would use the total gas supply from
the original meter, meaning no hot water, range, or central heat when
the kiln was running (the standard household meter only supplies a
maximum of 175,000 BTU/hr).
You do have the permit hassle, though, because the gas company won't
hook up the new meter until they see a "green tag". I live in dread of
officialdom, but in this case, it was no hassle at all - just walk in,
get the permit (fill in "owner" where the form says "contractor"), pay
the $12.60 US and you're out of there. In the eastern US, there may be
more of a hassle, because the permitting process is usually set up to
make sure that the work is done by union labor, working for a union
contractor.
Hope this helps,
Roger
Bob Hanlin on thu 13 aug 98
In my case the issue was resolved by the installation of a 1 million btu
meter. They came out a few weeks ago to change it because it was old and I
had to reconvince them that that's what I needed. The kiln is 36cu ft.
total. I fire to cone 10 and reduce heavily a lot of the way.
At 08:37 AM 8/12/98 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Kathi wrote:
>
>Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:40:51 EDT
>From: Kathi LeSueur
>Subject: Re: Natural gas hook up
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>It sounds like your problem is inadequate gas supply at the kiln. The
>biggest
>problem with converting from propane to natural gas is that often people
>don't
>understand that they are now dealing with gas "volume" instead of gas
>"pressure". In most places you are stuck with the pressure coming in
>from the
>street--8 ounces. You need a bigger pipe to carry more volume of gas.
>
>The first thing I would do is check the size of the main line delivering
>gas
>to the kiln. It should be a minimum of 1 1/4" pipe, 1 1/2 is better.
>Then
>check the orifice of your burners. Are you using the same burners that
>you did
>for propane without any modification to the orifice? If yes, then they
>must be
>modified to deliver more gas.
>
>Kathi LeSueur
>"Originality is failure to remember"
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
>Natural gas is typically piped to the meter at 40 pounds per square inch
>(PSI), then the pressure is reduced to 8 water column inches (wci) by a
>regulator for household use. 8 wci is about .3 PSI. At this low
>pressure, the pressure drop at the flow rate required for a typical
>(200,000 BTU/hr) kiln is going to be a critical design issue, requiring
>the use of large (read EXPENSIVE) pipe from the meter to the kiln.
>
>An excellent alternative is to ask the gas company to install a 2 PSI
>(about 55 wci) regulator so you can run 3/4" pipe to the kiln. For your
>household service, you still need 8 wci pressure, so you will need to
>install a 2PSI to 8wci regulator (about $29 US) for the household
>service.
>
>The only hassle is pulling a mechanical permit to get the new gas line
>tested so the gas company will install the 2 PSI meter (the gas company
>supplies the meter and installation, free, in anticipation of the higher
>gas bill they will collect). The permit costs $12.60 US here in Portland
>Left.
>
>After all is said and done, for my example, it worked out to spending
>about $80 US to build the 45 ft gas line to the kiln, install the
>regulator, and get inspected. In return, I have 500,000 BTU/hr available
>at the kiln, easy-to-build atmospheric burners (because of the higher
>pressure), and no interference between kiln use and household use.
>
>The alternative (1 1/2" pipe from the original meter) would have cost
>about $140 US to build and the kiln would use the total gas supply from
>the original meter, meaning no hot water, range, or central heat when
>the kiln was running (the standard household meter only supplies a
>maximum of 175,000 BTU/hr).
>
>You do have the permit hassle, though, because the gas company won't
>hook up the new meter until they see a "green tag". I live in dread of
>officialdom, but in this case, it was no hassle at all - just walk in,
>get the permit (fill in "owner" where the form says "contractor"), pay
>the $12.60 US and you're out of there. In the eastern US, there may be
>more of a hassle, because the permitting process is usually set up to
>make sure that the work is done by union labor, working for a union
>contractor.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>Roger
>
>
Bob Hanlin
bhanlin@ionet.net
Oklahoma City, OK
Joy Holdread on mon 17 aug 98
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I have recently changed from propane gas to natural gas for convience and am
having problems getting the temp hot enough. Please advise.
Roy, Did you change the orifice size?
Joy in Tucson
Muz on tue 18 aug 98
I did it the other way around and you need to make the holes in the gas jets
bigger which isn't too bad. The way I did it we had to fill the holes in and
then redrill them at a smaller size.I went to a LPG expert and asked him what
size to drill so it would pay for you to go to a CNG expert and ask them ; they
might charge for that advice but it pays to play it safe I thought and we have
had no further problems. I have an idea that CNG might be harder to get up to
temperture but then LPG has a whole lot of different problems as well e.g. if
your supply capacity is not large enough you can strike freezing problems
....... Janet Smith
The Woolshed Pottery
RD3 Cambridge 2351
New Zealand
Joy Holdread wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have recently changed from propane gas to natural gas for convience and am
> having problems getting the temp hot enough. Please advise.
>
> Roy, Did you change the orifice size?
> Joy in Tucson
>
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