Steven Benezue on tue 21 jul 98
A friend has asked me if I would provide private lessons for her son on
the wheel.
What is the going rate for private lessons these days. I don't want to
over charge them...
but I do want whats fair...any suggestions?
Don Prey on thu 23 jul 98
In a message dated 07/22/98 12:25:05 AM, you wrote:
<>
My perception: If you are doing this as a favor, around $10 per hour. If
your are doing this as a profession, around $30 per hour. In a big city,
maybe more; in a village off the beaten track, maybe less. Set a minimun rate
that indicates that both parties are serious.
Don Prey in Oregon (slightly off the beaten track).
Jo Gilder on fri 24 jul 98
Regarding private lessons... I give private lessons but charge only
about $5.00 US an hour. However I also get services in trade-like free
jewelry repairs (my student's a jeweler). I am self taught and feel
that I gain as much from the lessons as my student does. I also love to
teach so it's a fun thing not a chore.
Jo
--
Jo Gilder
Panama City, FL
Earl Brunner on sat 25 jul 98
People who teach pottery, or any other art or craft, should get at least the
going rate for private dance or music lessons. If you are good enough to be
teaching, you should be charging the going rate, you hurt everyone else when
you don't. (I'm speaking in the general sense not JUST jumping on you)
Earl Brunner on sun 26 jul 98
In a message dated 7/26/98 3:01:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, iveragh@INDIGO.IE
writes:
<< The person who started this topic asked how much he should
charge the child of a friend.The answer is obvious!ZERO Ifor one would not
want this mean s.o.b for a friend.At the present time I am teaching four
young people to be potters and I am PAYING them.I call it INVESTING IN THE
FUTURE. >>
Sorry Bob, can't buy it, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that
because he is a child, or a child of a friend we shouldn't charge?
Feldercarb!
I should only try that one on my doctor or dentist friend, or the mechanic
down the street, they don't cut me any slack. I'm no different from them.
Teachers eat just like everybody else. I went to school, I got my degree, I
sleep in and make payments on a house. I have bills just like everyone else
and I deserve fair value for my product which in this case is my time,
knowledge and skill. What I can and do teach has value. And I deserve to be
paid fairy for it.
Don't lump your leisure hobby in with people that are trying to make a living
in a difficult field, and don't imply that your pricing structure should be
the norm.
Bob&Hulda on sun 26 jul 98
Hi Earl,
The person who started this topic asked how much he should
charge the child of a friend.The answer is obvious!ZERO Ifor one would not
want this mean s.o.b for a friend.At the present time I am teaching four
young people to be potters and I am PAYING them.I call it INVESTING IN THE
FUTURE.
Bob Hollis
Steven Benezue on sun 26 jul 98
I asked the clayarters how much to charge the son of a coworker who was
interested in private art lessons. This son is 25 years old and is in a
graduate program. He wants to better himself and thought I could use the extra
income. I did not ask for Bob & Huldas friendship and don't like being
refered to as a "MEAN S.O.B." THANKYOU!
and thankyou to all of the other clayarters out there who cared enought to
give me constructive help...It is appreciated.
Bob&Hulda on sun 26 jul 98
>Hi Earl,
> The person who started this topic asked how much he should
>charge the child of a friend.The answer is obvious!ZERO Ifor one would not
>want this mean s.o.b for a friend.At the present time I am teaching four
>young people to be potters and I am PAYING them.I call it INVESTING IN THE
>FUTURE.
> Bob Hollis
>
Dana Henson on sun 26 jul 98
Just an observation...would it not be better to reserve hostile comments, such
as those made in reference to the person inquiring about charging for private
lessons, when those comments are based solely on assumptions?
If I recall correctly, he was asking the question originally because he wanted
to charge a FAIR price...seems to me that he wouldn't ask if he wanted to rip
somebody off!
Dana Henson
(Heck, it's only 106 degrees in Pilot Point, Texas today)
Dannon Rhudy on sun 26 jul 98
I've been off the list for a couple of weeks or more, so if this is
redundant,
hit delete....
It is difficult to know what to charge to teach a child. Depends perhaps
on the child. If you don't like the kid, try $100 an hour; you won't have
to give lessons.
On the other hand, sometimes teaching someone quite young can be
very rewarding. Last school term the eleven-year old brother of one of
my students came to me and asked if he could come in and throw during
class. I had to refuse that; the wheels were in use, the school would have
six fits, and I simply did not feel that I could spare the time to deal
with
him. But he was persistant, and obviously it was the right time for HIM,
whether or not it was for me. So, we negotiated a price. He could not
have afforded private lessons in the ordinary way, and I would not charge
him less just because he had little money, nor had his parents. In any
case, I thought if he were interested, he ought to pay himself, and not
rely on his family in this instance. We talked, and I discovered that
he was a budding organic gardener. So - he came in on Monday and
Wednesday afternoons for three hours, and I gave him instruction and
time to work at the wheel. He gave me whatever was ready in his garden.
We worked our way from early turnips through various lettuces clear to
the first of the tomatoes before the term was up. It was a bargain for
both of us. His focus and interest in the studio was absolute: he learned
to throw immediately and well, made clay, helped to load and fire the
kilns,
did a creditable job with glazing, and in fact was one of the best
beginning
students I've ever had.
As a bonus, he did not chatter, left the radio off, spoke to the point and
paid absolute attention to instructions. I expect him back this fall;
we'll
work something out.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
----------
> From: Bob&Hulda
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: Re: private lessons?
> Date: Sunday, July 26, 1998 9:22 PM
>
> Hi Earl,
> The person who started this topic asked how much he should
> charge the child of a friend.The answer is obvious!ZERO Ifor one would
not
> want this mean s.o.b for a friend.At the present time I am teaching four
> young people to be potters and I am PAYING them.I call it INVESTING IN
THE
> FUTURE.
> Bob Hollis
Dana Henson on mon 27 jul 98
>Just an observation...would it not be better to reserve hostile comments,
such
>as those made in reference to the person inquiring about charging for
private
>lessons, when those comments are based solely on assumptions?
>If I recall correctly, he was asking the question originally because he
wanted
>to charge a FAIR price...seems to me that he wouldn't ask if he wanted to
rip
>somebody off!
> Dana Henson
>(Heck, it's only 106 degrees in Pilot Point, Texas today)
>Dear Dana,
Do not be so wishy washy,there is more to this world
than money,try giving,you may be pleasantly surprised at the result of this
action. Bob Hollis
Fabienne on mon 27 jul 98
At 06:41 PM 7/26/98 -0600, you wrote:
>to charge a FAIR price...seems to me that he wouldn't ask if he wanted to=
rip
>somebody off!
> Dana Henson
>(Heck, it's only 106 degrees in Pilot Point, Texas today)Hello again, :)
Hello,
Let me clarify what I mean by "Why do I sense a feeling that you're ripping
people off?" It must be as clear as mud.
I was not saying potters/teachers are ripping people off, but that pupils
may get that feeling if charged more because pottery is not valued on the
market as other skills are. This feeling is possibly transcended to the
potter/teacher him/herself, thus the low rates.
I hope it makes more sense now :) My English needs polishing, sorry.
Cheers,
=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=
=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`
Fabienne | Yes, I have learned from my
http://www.vivelafrance.org | mistakes... =20
| I can reproduce them exactly.
Bob&Hulda on tue 28 jul 98
Dear Leon,
Yes I do have a lot of time,I do not have a lot of money
as I use most of what I get to pay my would-be potters.Thier ages are
15yrs.,16yrs.,19yrs.,&28yrs.These young people want to be potters in the
complete sense i.e from scrubbing out right through to producing thier own
finished pots.This means they do quite a lot of the every day work which I
or my wife would have to do if they were not here and as this frees us to
make more pots, which makes us more money,my sense of what I call fair play
dictates that they should be paid the most of this extra money.My wife and I
usually work from 7am-11pm probably on average 6days per week.Our hobby just
happens to be the same as our work.If we need more money we just make more
pots,it seems to us a lot easier and more sensible to make $300-$400 worth
of pots in an evening than to give someone lessons for a handful of$s.Like I
said, I see it as an investment in the future and perhaps one or all of
these young people will one day take over this pottery and perhaps give
other young people a break.A remote rural community needs as many young
people as it can get.etc..
Bob Hollis in still wet and cold
Co.Kerry
P.S.This letter is automatically signed Bob&Hulda but all views expressed
are Bobs
Earl Brunner on wed 29 jul 98
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Bob, you still miss the point I think. What you describe, and what works for
you in a studio production situation sounds very different from the concept of
taking on students, You pay yours a wage, they are employees, and you hope
they get more out of it then just the money, and rightly so. Yours appears to
be more of an apprenticeship type arrangement than a teaching arrangement as
such. The expectations are different. Based on his/her added information
(the son of the friends age). It would appear that the problem here is
assumptions, on your part and on mine. I apologize for my assumptions. I
still think that a potter giving lessons, like a music teacher, or a karate
teacher, or a dance teacher should expect similar pay. The context of the
lessons is different than your situation and the expectation should be
different as well. Since you choose not to teach this way because it doesn't
make financial sense to you, does not mean that others might not chose to do
it.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
Bob&Hulda on thu 30 jul 98
Hi Earl,
I agree,but why teach someone to be a part potter?The wonderful
pots seen on display did not get there without a lot of hard work,as you
know.When people come to my gallery to buy pots they are free to wander
around the workshops,invariably they are surprised as to the amount of
effort put in to producing the pots they buy and leave knowing they got
value for money.One of my main points was,who in thier right minds would
teach for a few dollars when in the same amount of time they could make and
sell hundreds of dollars worth of pots?
Sincerely, Bob Hollis
Earl Brunner on fri 31 jul 98
In a message dated 7/30/98 5:51:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, iveragh@indigo.ie
writes:
<< One of my main points was, who in their right minds would
teach for a few dollars when in the same amount of time they could make and
sell hundreds of dollars worth of pots? >>
Who said anything about a potter being in his right mind? But that's a whole
different argument.
I would probably prefer to teach in the setting and context that you describe.
But many potters, good potters, are not in that setting. Teaching to me is
important, so I teach at the community art center. My boss doesn't have a
clue about pottery. Sometimes I think I'm teaching her as much as the
students. And sometimes I think she listens as well as they do! Many of the
students are just there to see if this might be something they will like. I
sometimes get tired of their Ho Hum attitudes. But there are the few students
that I can tell have caught the disease, they get hooked and I can see it
burning in them. It is a pleasure to teach them. Not everyone who is driven
to work in clay will find their personal expression in the same type out
outlet that you have. Many potters include pottery in their lives in
different ways and to different degrees. We form a very exclusive club and
exclude the vast majority if we say people are only potters if they do it our
way.
Jo Gilder on fri 31 jul 98
Hi everyone,
I normally lurk as I am not a well known or excellantly skilled potter.
However this topic makes me wish to contribute.
Teaching is the best way of learning a subject. The questions,
problems, etc that come up require the "teacher" to grow in his/her own
subject. I teach all of my hobbies and therefore become both a better
teacher (practice) and more knowledgeable about the subject. As I said
earlier (previous post) I teach because I also learn from the student.
Also a consideration when deciding to teach is learning just what the
student expects to learn/do. Some of my students (myself included at
times) just want to try it out to see if they like it or not. They don't
want to invest a lot of money in something they know nothing about.
Nothing can turn off a desire to learn faster than expenses. I always
make extra expenses an option. Not everyone can afford the $200 aerobic
shoes just to take a six week class that they might not like anyway.
Teaching is sharing. The best way to interest someone (and to keep them
interested) is to share/teach the love that the teacher feels for the
subject. If the teacher's bored so is the student.
Money, IMNSHO, is not the issue.
Jo
> I agree,but why teach someone to be a part potter?The wonderful
> pots seen on display did not get there without a lot of hard work,as you
> know.When people come to my gallery to buy pots they are free to wander
> around the workshops,invariably they are surprised as to the amount of
> effort put in to producing the pots they buy and leave knowing they got
> value for money.One of my main points was,who in thier right minds would
> teach for a few dollars when in the same amount of time they could make and
> sell hundreds of dollars worth of pots?
> Sincerely, Bob Hollis
--
Jo Gilder
Panama City, FL
Cindy on fri 31 jul 98
Bob,
I applaud you and your wife for your giving spirit and your care for the
young people in your community. Giving is never a bad idea. It's always
rewarded in some way, I've found. One of the laws of the universe. Of
course, people give in different ways. You've chosen a fine avenue for
investing in the lives of people. Others may choose other paths. Some may
choose not to give at all. That's not my problem. I assume you're too busy
to concern yourself with it much, either. I'll just say that assumptions
based on limited knowledge of a fellow man/woman's situation are likely to
be somewhat less than accurate.
For myself, I'm alone, one wheel, and a little girl to support. I give my
money; I give my finished product; but at present, I simply cannot afford
to give lessons. I can't even afford to give lessons for which I expect to
be paid. When the local kids come around, my daughter teaches them how to
make pinch pots and sculptures; I glaze and fire and deliver them to their
makers. Right now, that's the best I can do. If I were to give lessons, I
would have to charge the amount I could make per hour if I were potting.
Folks around here wouldn't want to pay that, and I wouldn't feel
comfortable charging that, so there you are.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels
Custer, SD
USA http://blackhills-info.com/a/cindys/menu.htm
Don MacDonald on sat 1 aug 98
As a teacher, I find that I never stop learning from my students, every
student comes with a different perspective that enlarges my world of
ideas. In assisting students to solve problems, I find that I am
enriched with new and interesting ways of looking at the same old
things, so it is never boring. For me, production pottery would be a
way of life that would burn me out quickly, teaching hasn't yet. There
is also the fact that one can count on the regular pay cheque, and not
be dependant on maybe selling out at this or that craft fair.
June MacDonald
Earl Brunner wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> In a message dated 7/30/98 5:51:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, iveragh@indigo.ie
> writes:
>
> << One of my main points was, who in their right minds would
> teach for a few dollars when in the same amount of time they could make and
> sell hundreds of dollars worth of pots? >>
>
> Who said anything about a potter being in his right mind? But that's a whole
> different argument.
> I would probably prefer to teach in the setting and context that you describe.
> But many potters, good potters, are not in that setting. Teaching to me is
> important, so I teach at the community art center. My boss doesn't have a
> clue about pottery. Sometimes I think I'm teaching her as much as the
> students. And sometimes I think she listens as well as they do! Many of the
> students are just there to see if this might be something they will like. I
> sometimes get tired of their Ho Hum attitudes. But there are the few students
> that I can tell have caught the disease, they get hooked and I can see it
> burning in them. It is a pleasure to teach them. Not everyone who is driven
> to work in clay will find their personal expression in the same type out
> outlet that you have. Many potters include pottery in their lives in
> different ways and to different degrees. We form a very exclusive club and
> exclude the vast majority if we say people are only potters if they do it our
> way.
Timothy Dean Malm on sat 1 aug 98
a person or persons who doesn't really believe that time is money would
teach for a few doll;ars when they could easily produce many times in
valuable pots in the same time as teaching a few lessons, If you love to
teach and understand the responsibilities of teaching well, go for it.
Oterwise it seems like as false economy. Tim Malm
Timothy Dean Malm on sun 2 aug 98
yGreetings: I recant my reply to the question about how much to charge for
lessons. I believe parts of it to be acceptable and other sections to be
reprehensible. Sense the question had to do with money. much more can be
made with pots. Those that teach know that money is seldom the primary
motivation in taking it on. Tim Malm
Earl Brunner on mon 3 aug 98
In a message dated 8/2/98 8:40:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
cyrano@paul.spu.edu writes:
<< Those that teach know that money is seldom the primary
motivation in taking it on. Tim Malm
>>
True, money may not be the primary reason, I would hope that my doctor is into
medicine for more than just the money as well. The question was, what is a
FAIR price/fee to charge. I repeat, We should charge what the lessons are
worth, and they should be worth much the same as private or small group
leassons in other fields, such as music, dance, etc. IF WE DO NOT, then we
help contribute to the idea that art/ceramics is something that anybody can do
with little or no training, and worse, that training has little or no value.
We are often guilty of contributing to many of the misconceptions about our
craft/art and it's value.
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