Jeff Lawrence on tue 8 dec 98
Sam the the cat lady wrote:
> Am I the only one who noticed that owners take on average
> $50,000 in take-home pay? Must be nice.....
Hello Sam,
I like your posts, but this one seems uninformed.
Potters take up and leave the craft all the time. Santa Fe is full of
former potters (now yoga teachers, psychologists, crystal cleansers,
lawyers -- mel is right, potters are a resourceful bunch). As potters, they
probably didn't make much, but they risked little but their time.
Opening a store, on the other hand, involves big risks. You need upfront
capital to rent a facility, fit out and furnish it, and fill your shelves
with ware. You need working capital to advertise, pay help and carry the
business until it gets some momentum. If you fail at opening a store (not
uncommon around Santa Fe) you lose bigtime. Small business owners usually
have to personally guarantee loans, even when incorporated. A store that
closes after a year or two usually means somebody's retirement went up in
smoke.
Most people won't sell their car, fly to Las Vegas, and plunk it all down
on a single roll of the dice. If some fools do, though, how can those who
choose safety over risk begrudge them the payoff?
Jeff Lawrence
jml@sundagger.com
Sun Dagger Design
Rt. 1 Box 394L
Espanola, NM 87532
vox/fax 505-753-5913
Olivia T Cavy on wed 9 dec 98
Jeff,
Good points, and I would add that shop owners have also probably
invested money (as well as time), so their "take home" includes
(hopefully) a financial return on their investment as well as payment for
their time. Usually we like a higher rate of return on our investments
when the risks are greater, and as you pointed out, the risks are
extremely high for retail shop owners.
Bonnie
Bonnie D. Hellman
Pittsburgh, PA
work email: bdh@firstcaptl.com or oliviatcavy@juno.com
home email: mou10man@sgi.net
On Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:21:54 EST Jeff Lawrence writes:
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>Sam the the cat lady wrote:
>> Am I the only one who noticed that owners take on average
>> $50,000 in take-home pay? Must be nice.....
>
>Hello Sam,
>
>I like your posts, but this one seems uninformed.
>
>Potters take up and leave the craft all the time. Santa Fe is full of
>former potters (now yoga teachers, psychologists, crystal cleansers,
>lawyers -- mel is right, potters are a resourceful bunch). As potters,
>they
>probably didn't make much, but they risked little but their time.
>
>Opening a store, on the other hand, involves big risks. You need
>upfront
>capital to rent a facility, fit out and furnish it, and fill your
>shelves
>with ware. You need working capital to advertise, pay help and carry
>the
>business until it gets some momentum. If you fail at opening a store
>(not
>uncommon around Santa Fe) you lose bigtime. Small business owners
>usually
>have to personally guarantee loans, even when incorporated. A store
>that
>closes after a year or two usually means somebody's retirement went up
>in
>smoke.
>
>Most people won't sell their car, fly to Las Vegas, and plunk it all
>down
>on a single roll of the dice. If some fools do, though, how can those
>who
>choose safety over risk begrudge them the payoff?
>
>
>Jeff Lawrence
>jml@sundagger.com
>Sun Dagger Design
>Rt. 1 Box 394L
>Espanola, NM 87532
>vox/fax 505-753-5913
>
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Karen Gringhuis on wed 9 dec 98
BIG SECOND to Jeff Lawrence's post about this risk of opening a
shop/gallery.
Further reality info - while $50,000 may be more than most potters
gross, it's still hardly fat city when you remember that any & all
health insurance, retirement plan, etc must be self-funded. My
sister is a self-employed career development expert and the $$
sound big til you get into the details.
Me - I don't begrudge the shop/gallery owners their percentage -
studio rent is all the risk I care to take right now.
Karen Gringhuis
John Jensen on wed 9 dec 98
A
>probably didn't make much, but they risked little but their time.
>
>Opening a store, on the other hand, involves big risks.
We'll I would say thant any potter who has a chance of succeeding in
business has risked more or less their whole life in the commitment to
follow art as well as specifically investing a large number of year in
developing the specific skills to do pottery. And the investment in space
and equipment required to develop a pottery are quite large.
Opening a store is a large undertaking, too; but by no means any larger than
the investment the artist makes. In my opinion the artist makes the larger
commitment and takes the greater risk and investment.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery, Annapolis
Berry Silverman on thu 10 dec 98
John Jensen wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> Opening a store is a large undertaking, too; but by no means any
larger than
> the investment the artist makes. In my opinion the artist makes the
larger
> commitment and takes the greater risk and investment.
>
> John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery, Annapolis
>
John, I agree an artist may have a large investment, as well. But how
many artists are making it in clay alone? We could take a poll and
find out how many folks on the list are subsisting entirely on the
sales of their pottery -- not just part-time, not with the help of an
academic salary. Many retail store owners worked years for someone
else, saving their money, in order to be able to afford their dream of
opening a store, whereas many potters can do art on the weekend and go
into the gallery with a box under their arm to sell their wares,
without taking the same kind of risk. I know that lots of artists are
full-time committed -- time, money, education, the works; but there
are part-timers aplenty, as well. I don't know that many part-time
store owners, unless they are working another job to keep their store
alive -- as an outlet for the artist who think they're being cheated.
Just another point of view.
==
Berry Silverman,
Berryware, Tucson, Arizona
berrysilverman@yahoo.com
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John Jensen on fri 11 dec 98
>==
I don't have an ax to grind with gallery or store owners. I think whatever
they make is by and large well deserved and an appropriate return for their
investment of hard work, enthusiasm, vision and hard earned cash. My small
complaint is in dismissing in any way the investment of the artist. If there
are artist who are part time with a small investment, it is appropriate that
they have a relatively smaller return. The fact that many artists don't
make a good return on their investment of all the above (hard work,
enthusiams, vision, and hard earned cash) as well as education, heart, and
soul in no way should diminish the value of that investment.
In fact,I appreciate and respect those who represent the artists on behalf
of a system of economy not particularly sympathetic to artists. $50,000
doesn't seem excessive to me as an income for a small store owner, nor does
it seem like a lot for a full time artist to make.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery, Annapolis, Md.
Don Jones on sat 12 dec 98
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>
>John Jensen wrote:
>>
>> ----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>> Opening a store is a large undertaking, too; but by no means any
>larger than
>> the investment the artist makes. In my opinion the artist makes the
>larger
>> commitment and takes the greater risk and investment.
>>
>> John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery, Annapolis
>>
>
>John, I agree an artist may have a large investment, as well. But how
>many artists are making it in clay alone?
Dear Group,
I feel especially qualified to respond to this thread since I am currently
making my living solely from the sale of my pottery and I have owned and
operated a clay gallery.
By far the riskiest and most expensive of the two is the gallery. It is
gambling on a high order. This is a game for rich people. I risked and
lost my savings totalling over 40k in a little less than 18months.
I got out in time before I lost my house.
I then got smart and invested 10 k in my clay business and have never
regretted it since. My last years sales are close to 50k.
If anyone has any specific questions to ask me regarding either of these
operations, please respond.
Thank you,
Don Jones
claysky@highfiber.com
:-) implied in all messages and replies
http://highfiber.com/~claysky
Linda Blossom on mon 14 dec 98
I would like to hear more of Don's story about the gallery failure. Would
you be willing to talk more about it on the list?
Linda Blossom
Ithaca, NY
Don wrote:
By far the riskiest and most expensive of the two is the gallery. It is
gambling on a high order. This is a game for rich people. I risked and
lost my savings totalling over 40k in a little less than 18months.
I got out in time before I lost my house.
I then got smart and invested 10 k in my clay business and have never
regretted it since. My last years sales are close to 50k.
If anyone has any specific questions to ask me regarding either of these
operations, please respond.
Thank you,
Don Jones
claysky@highfiber.com
:-) implied in all messages and replies
http://highfiber.com/~claysky
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