Monona Rossol on sun 15 nov 98
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:12:29 EST
From: "Karl P. Platt"
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Granola Fascism
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
SNIP----to long to reprint.
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Karl,
Your funniest line was in relation to leach testing for metals other than
lead or cadmium:
> I'd submit that your government is quite reasonable. <
I will hold you to this the next time we check to see if you are
following all the OSHA and EPA regulations that apply to ceramics and glass.
And it was the "reasonable" old US FDA that in 1989 called for information on
leaching of metals other than lead and cadmium because they clearly stated
this hazard should be assessed. At that time there was no data out there to
assess.
You continue:
> Why? No-one anywhere has *ever* been ill affected by a potter's Ba bearing
> glaze, certainly much less by any commercial maker's glaze. No-one anywhere
> can bring forth a single studio ceramist stricken down by the use of
> barium.<
No one can find a single case of a consumer affected by a cadmium-containing
glaze or a studio ceramicist who was struck down by the use of cadmium
either. But cadmium is highly regulated as a leachate from ware and OSHA has
a separate standard for it similar to that for lead.
Sometimes, common sense must be used when data is missing. That's what your
very "reasonable government" has done in this case. And they are looking at
other metals--believe me.
Now that we have the Alfred Analytical Lab committed to providing low cost
tests and collecting data on ceramic leaching of all kinds of metals, I
suggest you hold off on the tirades until we see what we find. You could be
embarrassing yourself.
Another highlight of your post was the following:
> I hate to be repetitive, as I've told this tale here before and just got
> done bitching about stale content here, but one of my early career tasks was
> to produce a cone 6-8 Bristol type glaze (that incidentally bore no small
> amount of BaO) which was used on tile for lining chemical vats in paper
> making and chemical processing industries. These vats were used for
> substances far more agressive than OJ or vinegar, and never showed color
> changes. They also didn't leach perceptable amounts of Ba as was proved by
> routine testing (AA) done to develop and maintain stable and durable glaze.
You develop one glaze and think you can speak for all barium glazes?
That's just nuts Karl. Maybe you have to keep repeating this "glaze
anecdote" because this all you have to refer to.
And since your "early career" was probably more than a couple of years ago,
I'll bet there are some interesting answers to questions about your detection
limits for barium per amount of leachate per unit of area. In a big paper
vat, I submit, you can't relate any test method available even today to a
foodware leach test.
If it is any help, the barium glaze leaching data looks like it will be the
most likely to be assessed first.
And regarding your opinion of the manganese exposed pottery workers, let me
put two of your own statements back to back:
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> This, for those who missed it, is an anecdote. Anecdotes, we need to
> remember, are not peer-reviewed or the stuff scientific conclusions are
> based on. <
> No-one anywhere can bring forth a single studio ceramist stricken down by
> the use of barium.<
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It appears that "bringing forth" two pottery laborers in Montreal, and two
"studio ceramists stricken down by" manganese---one in Australia, one in
Canada---doesn't work for you, either.
> I've asked way more than once for someone to produce something, anything
> more than weird anecdotes or bureaucratic blither to lend substance to
> the hysteria, but, alas, I remain unsatisfied. Show me one
> and I'll shut-up and go away. <
Oh, be still my beating heart!
First: Read the paper written by one of the manganese-exposed. It contains
details of the woman's test results and the assessment of the attending
physician.
Second, watch for the "bureaucratic blither" that is coming out on manganese
now that Ethyl Corporation won the right to add Mn to our gasoline. EPA has
already written the first assessment of chronic low level manganese toxicity
published in the Federal Register about two years ago. The Canadian
Government is looking into doing something similar.
And since these are both "reasonable" governments, maybe you should just wait
and see what they decide about what our level of exposure should be.
> I'll recall, a glaze maker of 40 years who is very alive today at 80.
> Leyland, not a Rhodes Scholar, worked as the guy who weighed and mixed
> about 3 tons of glaze each day under pretty rustic conditions for most
> of his career SNIP------
And you complain about anecdotes? George Burns lived to 100, only most of
us can't drink a fifth of gin a day and smoke cigars almost continuously.
> While I could cite a whole host of other examples of old timers I know,
> I would also point to myself, whose age will remain a secret, and who
> has also had the odd fortune to have spent part of his career making an
> awful lot of glaze SNIP
Pretty much explains this post.
You might try a little Granola. Its good for the mind.
Monona
ACTS
181 Thompson St., # 23
New York, NY 10012-2586 212/777-0062
PS--Was in Seattle working. Sorry for untimely answer. M
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