Berry Silverman on thu 12 nov 98
I am posting a question for a friend off the list:
She fires to ^6 oxidation. She has been dipping pots in one glaze,
splashing hot wax on the pieces with a brush, then dipping partially
in another glaze. Occasionally as the hot wax dries it pulls off the
glaze underneath. She has tried cold wax resists but feels they don't
repel the glaze sufficiently, and cleanup is too time consuming. Any
idea why this is happening? She thought perhaps the hot wax might be
too thick, but isn't sure what to use to thin it without losing its
superior glaze repellence. These pieces are vertical -- vases,
goblets, mugs -- rather than horizontal pieces like platters. Is it a
gravity problem? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
==
Berry Silverman,
Berryware, Tucson, Arizona
berrysilverman@yahoo.com
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Marcia Selsor on fri 13 nov 98
Tell your firend to try thinning the hot wax with kerosene. -as much as 50%.
Marcia in Montana
Berry Silverman wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I am posting a question for a friend off the list:
>
> She fires to ^6 oxidation. She has been dipping pots in one glaze,
> splashing hot wax on the pieces with a brush, then dipping partially
> in another glaze. Occasionally as the hot wax dries it pulls off the
> glaze underneath. She has tried cold wax resists but feels they don't
> repel the glaze sufficiently, and cleanup is too time consuming. Any
> idea why this is happening? She thought perhaps the hot wax might be
> too thick, but isn't sure what to use to thin it without losing its
> superior glaze repellence. These pieces are vertical -- vases,
> goblets, mugs -- rather than horizontal pieces like platters. Is it a
> gravity problem? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
> ==
> Berry Silverman,
> Berryware, Tucson, Arizona
> berrysilverman@yahoo.com
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
June Perry on fri 13 nov 98
She may be waiting till the glaze is too dry before applying the wax. Apply
the wax as soon as the glaze can be touched without coming off on your finger.
You can thin the wax down with the addition of a bit of kerosene.
Warm regards,
June
Donn Buchfinck on fri 13 nov 98
If she is using only melted parifin then this is the cause that the wax is
pealing off,
sometimes also the glaze she is putting wax on might have some soda ash that
comes to the surface of the pot making it hard for the wax to stick
what I use is a wax combination of
1 lb parifin
1/4 cup motor oil "new"
1/4 cup lamp oil/kerosene
melt these down and the motor oil and lamp oil thins the wax and makes it very
brushable.
BE CARFULL YOU CAN BURN YOUR STUDIO DOWN WITH HOT WAX
now that that is said and done, just keep the stuff from smoking, and
whatever you do do not leave it unatended.
if she wants to try a good cold wax, the best stuff out there I have seen is
from AFTOSA, buy a little bottle, and a problem most people have with it not
resisting is not letting it dry enough, even if the wax seems dry after 20
minutes it is not and the surface of the wax will hold the glaze,, if you wax
then wait until the next day the cold wax will work fine,
but if your impaitent like most of us then use the hot wax from above.
Donn Buchfinck
Paul Lewing on fri 13 nov 98
Her wax is not hot enough. If she's using an electric frying pan to
heat it, which is the best thing, she should turn it up just a hair.
Too much and it won't resist right. If her pan is old, it might not
be getting as hot as it once did on the same setting.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Stephen Lathrop on fri 13 nov 98
Barry asked about hot wax pulling glaze off a pot.
My throwing is only part time so glazes are not my expertise. However,
my full time job is working for the Crayola Crayon people [Binney & Smith
Inc.]. So working with wax is our every day job, therefore, we learned and
know lots about it particulars. Wax is an amorphous material. The most
common is paraffin. That means it has a random, irregular, clumpy, chunky
pattern to its structure when it goes from a liquid [melted] to a solid.
As such common paraffin wax does not have a clear crystal pattern or
structure to it when it solidifies. In addition wax has a hugh expansion
coefficient both at different liquid temperatures and at its "glass
transition point" or "solidifying" point. Simply put in other words
paraffin shrinks a lot. Shrinkage is a huge problem for us and obviously
you. We must deal with similar problems so.....
Several things to help are. 1). Working with the wax batch very close
to the solidifying point. Then the shrinkage that occurs in the liquid
state has already happened and the solidifying shrinkage is held to a
minimum. 2). Dry the substrate. [dry the surface your applying too-or dry
your glaze on the pot surface as much as you can. A dry surface will bond
better otherwise the wax will fall off, equally no good] 3.) Strengthen the
substrate or strengthen the glaze, add more cmc to the glaze batch...4.)
Use a wax that has less shrinkage.
A family of waxes that have very small shrinkages are MICRO
CRYSTALLINE WAXES. Micro crystalline wax as the name suggests forms very
small crystals and packs tightly together. Thus it has a significantly
reduced expansion coefficient. There are at least 6 or 7 micro crystalline
waxes on the market commercially available. A leading manufacture of micro
waxes is a company named WITCO. WITCO sells in Railroad Tank Car lots only.
So Witco does not sell direct to small industries for small quantities but
there Distributors will. Textile Chemical Co. in Reading PA distributes for
WITCO (610) 925-4151. Textile chem. I believe sells in relatively small
quantities like 50 lb. Even that may be a lot so get together with another
ClayArter...However, you if like may like to call a Mr. Paul Abosch of
WITCO there tech. rep. first and ask him which is the best grade of micro
crystallines for our wet glazes on pottery applications. Hope this helps.
Steve
___o_/
Pierre Brayford on fri 13 nov 98
I use what in the UK is known as parafin (kerosene, I think in US). Quite
how much I'm not sure, try about 10% to start with. This also improves the
flow of wax from the brush. After some time you will probably have to add
more kerosene as it vaporises more than the wax which starts to thicken
again. I use an old deep fat fryer which is thermostatically controlled and
once a suitable setting has been found can be left on all day.
-----Original Message-----
From: Berry Silverman
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: 12 November 1998 07:43
Subject: Hot wax question
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I am posting a question for a friend off the list:
She fires to ^6 oxidation. She has been dipping pots in one glaze,
splashing hot wax on the pieces with a brush, then dipping partially
in another glaze. Occasionally as the hot wax dries it pulls off the
glaze underneath. She has tried cold wax resists but feels they don't
repel the glaze sufficiently, and cleanup is too time consuming. Any
idea why this is happening? She thought perhaps the hot wax might be
too thick, but isn't sure what to use to thin it without losing its
superior glaze repellence. These pieces are vertical -- vases,
goblets, mugs -- rather than horizontal pieces like platters. Is it a
gravity problem? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
==
Berry Silverman,
Berryware, Tucson, Arizona
berrysilverman@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Arturo M DeVitalis on fri 13 nov 98
Try pure paraffin (sp) at 240 degrees.
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Marcia Selsor on fri 13 nov 98
I keep my hot wax solution in an electric fry pan set low once it melts
to avaoid smoking. We had to remove from the Univ. studio because the
Dept. of Labor Safety inspectors said that the frying pan was not
intended for hot wax. (go figure)
Marcia in Montana
Donn Buchfinck wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> If she is using only melted parifin then this is the cause that the wax is
> pealing off,
> sometimes also the glaze she is putting wax on might have some soda ash that
> comes to the surface of the pot making it hard for the wax to stick
>
> what I use is a wax combination of
>
> 1 lb parifin
> 1/4 cup motor oil "new"
> 1/4 cup lamp oil/kerosene
>
> melt these down and the motor oil and lamp oil thins the wax and makes it very
> brushable.
>
> BE CARFULL YOU CAN BURN YOUR STUDIO DOWN WITH HOT WAX
>
> now that that is said and done, just keep the stuff from smoking, and
> whatever you do do not leave it unatended.
>
> if she wants to try a good cold wax, the best stuff out there I have seen is
> from AFTOSA, buy a little bottle, and a problem most people have with it not
> resisting is not letting it dry enough, even if the wax seems dry after 20
> minutes it is not and the surface of the wax will hold the glaze,, if you wax
> then wait until the next day the cold wax will work fine,
> but if your impaitent like most of us then use the hot wax from above.
>
> Donn Buchfinck
Vince Pitelka on sat 14 nov 98
>Tell your firend to try thinning the hot wax with kerosene. -as much as 50%.
The above works great, but the fumes are very toxic, far more so than with
plain wax. So be sure that you have a good exhaust system to draw off the
wax/kerosene fumes.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Vince Pitelka on sat 14 nov 98
>what I use is a wax combination of
>
>1 lb parifin
>1/4 cup motor oil "new"
>1/4 cup lamp oil/kerosene
>
>melt these down and the motor oil and lamp oil thins the wax and makes it very
>brushable.
>
>BE CARFULL YOU CAN BURN YOUR STUDIO DOWN WITH HOT WAX
Donn gives very good advice above. I forgot to mention that in my post.
The kerosene/wax combination is EXTREMELY flammable. As he says, do not
heat it so high that it smokes. As I remember, I use to heat my
wax/kerosene mix to about 160 degrees F.
I have heard of others using motor oil in the mix. I tried it and didn't
like the smell of it, but if you are exhausting the fumes then the only
concern is how well it works on the surface, and I understand that it works
very well.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Joseph Herbert on sat 14 nov 98
Marcia in Montana wrote:
"Tell your friend to try thinning the hot wax with kerosene. as much as 50%."
Because paraffin is a petroleum product, any organic solvent will dissolve in
and thin it. For hot wax applications, it might be better and safer to use
things with a higher flash point that paint thinner, gasoline or kerosene.
All of these things are easily ignited and will, with the added wax, make a
dandy fire. Mineral oil or petroleum jelly will also thin wax and be less
likely to ignite. They won't evaporate as rapidly from the hot pan as will
the lighter solvents. We don't have to go too much farther to get Greek fire
or napalm.
Be safe
Joseph Herbert
JJHerb@aol.com
Corinne Null on sun 15 nov 98
I heard somewhere that you can use cooking oil instead of kerosene, so I have
been diluting my paraffin with canola oil. Also, figure it's not as toxic,
although I have rigged a vent out of a kitty litter-box top!
Corinne
At 10:12 AM 11/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>what I use is a wax combination of
>>
>>1 lb parifin
>>1/4 cup motor oil "new"
>>1/4 cup lamp oil/kerosene
>>
>>melt these down and the motor oil and lamp oil thins the wax and makes it
very
>>brushable.
>>
>>BE CARFULL YOU CAN BURN YOUR STUDIO DOWN WITH HOT WAX
>
>Donn gives very good advice above. I forgot to mention that in my post.
>The kerosene/wax combination is EXTREMELY flammable. As he says, do not
>heat it so high that it smokes. As I remember, I use to heat my
>wax/kerosene mix to about 160 degrees F.
>
>I have heard of others using motor oil in the mix. I tried it and didn't
>like the smell of it, but if you are exhausting the fumes then the only
>concern is how well it works on the surface, and I understand that it works
>very well.
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
>Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>
Corinne Null
Bedford, NH
USA
null@mediaone.net
Corinne Null on sun 15 nov 98
Oh, one other thing or two about hot wax.
Mind you, I HATE waxing, because I will invariably get some where I don't want
it. And, there seems to be no way to remove it, short of re-bisquing. When I
used pure paraffin, I could sand it down and get most of it out. Now that
I've
added the oil to the wax, it seems to soak into the bisque more and be even
more impossible to remove.
Oh, yes. The part about adding alumina hydrate to the wax is all well and
good
for bottoms, but I figured out that it would NOT be nice if you intend to use
it for wax resist between glazes. That ole alumina hydrate will just sit
there
and make all kinds of yuckys on that glaze, right?
Corinne
At 10:12 AM 11/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>what I use is a wax combination of
>>
>>1 lb parifin
>>1/4 cup motor oil "new"
>>1/4 cup lamp oil/kerosene
>>
>>melt these down and the motor oil and lamp oil thins the wax and makes it
very
>>brushable.
>>
>>BE CARFULL YOU CAN BURN YOUR STUDIO DOWN WITH HOT WAX
>
>Donn gives very good advice above. I forgot to mention that in my post.
>The kerosene/wax combination is EXTREMELY flammable. As he says, do not
>heat it so high that it smokes. As I remember, I use to heat my
>wax/kerosene mix to about 160 degrees F.
>
>I have heard of others using motor oil in the mix. I tried it and didn't
>like the smell of it, but if you are exhausting the fumes then the only
>concern is how well it works on the surface, and I understand that it works
>very well.
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
>Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>
Corinne Null
Bedford, NH
USA
null@mediaone.net
Shirley Cumming on sun 15 nov 98
Hello Clayart People: You are making me very nervous posting about heating
wax. When I was about 13, I was in an orphanage. They made their own floor
wax by melting wax and adding kerosene. The hardwood floors were so shiny
they reflected objects. The wax was applied when cool as a paste, and when
dry the kids were lined up and given a wool rag under each foot and we "rubbed
the floors", all in a row scooting back and forth.
Meals were prepared on those old wood and coal burning cook stoves. I was in
the "big girls cottage" and we had our own kitchen and dining room. One
morning the matron was making the wax on the cook stove. There were about
three other girls in the kitchen besides me. I was standing about 6 feet from
the stove and as I watched, a small flame started burning at the edge of the
bottom of the kettle. Very, very fast it went up a stream of spilled wax on
the outside of the kettle and poof the whole thing burst into flames.
The matron immediately put a dishpan over the kettle and it burned out.
However, the room was covered with the blackest and thickest smoke. We spent
about a week scraping and washing walls, ceiling, everything. And when we
were through each day, out noses, ears, hair, and hands were black.
So be careful. I wouldn't think of heating wax! Shirlawn
Grimmer on sun 15 nov 98
Hi,
A good mix for hot wax is canning parafin and two stroke motor oil. Melt the
wax in your pan and add Lawn Boy (or whatever flavor you can find) until it
flows the way you like it. The 2 stroke stuff is nice because it is dyed red
or green and is quite visible on your pots. Some say the red is better, but
I don't recall why. Sure does stink, though. I'm using that Mobilcer-A now,
and it seems pretty nice, though one must plan ahead a day so it can dry. No
more of that wax-and-glaze routine.
steve grimmer
marion illinois.
----------
>From: Vince Pitelka
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Hot wax question
>Date: Sat, Nov 14, 1998, 3:12 PM
>>
>>BE CARFULL YOU CAN BURN YOUR STUDIO DOWN WITH HOT WAX
>
>Donn gives very good advice above. I forgot to mention that in my post.
>The kerosene/wax combination is EXTREMELY flammable. As he says, do not
>heat it so high that it smokes. As I remember, I use to heat my
>wax/kerosene mix to about 160 degrees F.
>
>I have heard of others using motor oil in the mix. I tried it and didn't
>like the smell of it, but if you are exhausting the fumes then the only
>concern is how well it works on the surface, and I understand that it works
>very well.
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
>Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Stephen Mills on sun 15 nov 98
In message , Vince Pitelka writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>what I use is a wax combination of
>>
>>1 lb parifin
>>1/4 cup motor oil "new"
>>1/4 cup lamp oil/kerosene
>>
>>melt these down and the motor oil and lamp oil thins the wax and makes it very
>>brushable.
>>
>>BE CARFULL YOU CAN BURN YOUR STUDIO DOWN WITH HOT WAX
>
>Donn gives very good advice above. I forgot to mention that in my post.
>The kerosene/wax combination is EXTREMELY flammable. As he says, do not
>heat it so high that it smokes. As I remember, I use to heat my
>wax/kerosene mix to about 160 degrees F.
>
>I have heard of others using motor oil in the mix. I tried it and didn't
>like the smell of it, but if you are exhausting the fumes then the only
>concern is how well it works on the surface, and I understand that it works
>very well.
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
>Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>
Vince,
I was taught a good trick by Robert Fournier; he covered the bottom of a
baking tray with candles and then just covered them with light sewing
machine/bicycle oil ( we call it 3-in-1 oil over here). This gives a
proportion of approx. 50/50 I think.
The resulting mixture (when melted together) is very easy to paint with,
and can be kept fluid by sitting the pot in a bath of hot water!
That cuts out the fire risk.
The only down side (if you can call it that) is that the wax remains
softish after painting it on, so glazing has to take place soon after.
Steve
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
Judith Enright on tue 17 nov 98
>>The only down side (if you can call it that) is that the wax remains
>>softish after painting it on, so glazing has to take place soon after.
Wouldn't this mean that the drying time of the wax would preclude glazing
right away? How long does the wax stay soft?
Debby Grant on wed 18 nov 98
Instead of putting alumina hydrate right in the hot wax I keep a pan
of it next to the wax and dip the pot in it right after dipping it in the
wax. You don't need a very thick application and this works just
great for porcelain.
Debby Grant in NH
Debby Grant on wed 18 nov 98
I forgot to mention that I dip the pot for a second time after glazing
because you don't want the alumina hydrate to come off in the glaze.
Debby Grant in NH
Stephen Mills on wed 18 nov 98
No, it dries quickly, but doesn't harden off like straight paraffin wax,
consequently it picks up dust faster, which makes "next day glazing" a
pain. It's brilliant for decorative work.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Judith Enright writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>>The only down side (if you can call it that) is that the wax remains
>>>softish after painting it on, so glazing has to take place soon after.
>
>Wouldn't this mean that the drying time of the wax would preclude glazing
>right away? How long does the wax stay soft?
>
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
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