Rafael Molina-Rodriguez (Rafael Molina-Rodriguez) on fri 23 oct 98
------------------
David :
=3EThe main reason for studying at the university is to be an educated =
=3Eperson. I
know that this is not commonly accepted, but this is the =3Eclassical =
definition
of a liberal arts education.
Here's a more accurate definition of liberal arts:
Liberal meant free (from the Roman root liber) back in Roman days when a
curriculum counted logic, rhetoric, grammar, arithmetic, geometry, music and
astronomy - seven subjects then said to be suitable for =22free men=22 but =
not for
slaves.
Against =22useless knowledge=22 charges the curriculum was defended by
schoolmasters, who argued that these subjects would develop a person's =
highest
faculty: the intellect.
Vestiges of this thinking survive today in the liberal arts curriculum where
courses are structured with long-range goals in mind as distinct from
disciplines aimed at immediate utility - say, courses in business, =
engineering,
agriculture, and wildlife.
The seven liberal arts were underscored in Proverbs 9:1 =22Wisdom hath =
builded her
house=3B she hath hewn out her seven pillars.=22 (Laurence McNamee and Kent=
Biffle)
BTW, Texas Womans University is not a liberal arts college. Here in the
Southwest part of the country Austin College, Southwestern University,
University of Dallas among others are considered institutions which offer a
liberal arts curriculum.
Rafael
=3E=3E=3E David Hendley =3Chendley=40tyler.net=3E 10/21/98 12:21pm =3E=3E=3E
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
The main reason for studying at the university is to be an
educated person.
I know that this is not commonly accepted, but this is the classical
definition of a liberal arts education.
A person who only wants to be a production potter would
be better served to become an apprentice or get a job at
a ceramics shop.
Why =22waste=22 time on art history, drawing, or a minor area of
study if 'production potter' is your only goal?
Personally, I am thankful that I was afforded the oportunity to
spend 6 years in college=3B but I certianly learned more about
being a potter in 6 years of =22doing it=22 than 6 years at school.
Rafael, your list of Univ. of North Texas potters is misleading:
At least 3 from your list worked as apprentices in England, which,
I'm sure they would agree, prepared them to be potters more than
their time spent at college.
At least 2 from your list are now teachers.
Dee Buck studied pottery at, and has a degree from, my alma mater
Texas Woman's University.
I also remember, just last year, Rafael, that you contended here on
Clayart that it was impossible to make a living as a studio potter.
So, I was surprised to read:
=3Ebecause upon graduation
=3Ethe opportunity to make a living selling pots is more realistic than that
=3Eelusive full time tenure track faculty position they covet.
I'm really pleased to hear this, but wonder, what changed your mind?
Was it something we potters had to say here on Clayart?
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley=40tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com
At 01:35 PM 10/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
=3E----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3E------------------
=3ELee :
=3E
=3E=3EIsn't the main reason for studying at the university is to
=3E=3Eget a university job?
=3E
=3EI don't believe you can make absolute statements as you have. There are
in fact
=3Esome schools who have a history of graduating some very good production
potters.
=3E
=3EMy alma mater The University of North Texas is a good example. Jerry
Austin and
=3EElmer Taylor, a former Leach apprentice, are the two long-time faculty.
Here is
=3Ea partial list of production potter alumni :
=3E
=3EGary and Daphne Hatcher, Pine Mills Pottery=3B Frank Campbell, Dos Rios
Pottery=3B
=3EDee Buck, Buck Pottery=3B Jim Dale, Salado Pottery=3B Don Ellis, =
Cloudcroft
Pottery,
=3ERachel Norris, Joy Pottery=3B John Bailey, Jay Bucek, Max Butler, John =
Fulwood,
=3EScott Roberts, Winston Wigand, Tony Holman, etc.,...
=3E
=3EI'm sure there are other schools who also graduate students who go on to
make a
=3Eliving as production potters. I would encourage people who are =
interested in
=3Egoing to graduate school to spend their two or three years refining their
work
=3Eand learning all they can about running a small business because upon
graduation
=3Ethe opportunity to make a living selling pots is more realistic than that
=3Eelusive full time tenure track faculty position they covet.
=3E
=3ERafael
=3E
=3E=3E=3E=3E Lee Love =3CAkitajin=40millcomm.com=3E 10/19/98 08:10am =
=3E=3E=3E
=3E----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3E
=3E-----Original Message-----
=3EFrom: Rafael Molina-Rodriguez
=3E
=3E=3EIs it possible that production potters are ignorant
=3E=3Eof academic concerns such as curriculum development,
=3E=3Esyllabi, assessment/grading, advising,
=3E=3Eetc,...?
=3E
=3EGood point. Isn't the main reason for studying at the university is to
=3Eget a university job? A production potter doesn't need to learn
=3Ecurriculum development, syllabi, etc.
=3E
=3E/(o=5C' Lee In Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
=3E=5Co)/' mailto:Ikiru=40Kami.com ICQ=23 20586182
=3E' http://www.millcomm.com/=7Eleelove/ikiru.html
Karen R. Betts on mon 2 nov 98
To the List:
I am an undergrad at the University of Florida ceramics program. I am 47
yrs. old and am far from the typical college student. I am also a mother,
and a "feminist," if that means anything these days. I have been following
this "university system is bad for students" discussion for a while now, and
I believe that people should be a lot more specific if they are going to
discuss something that is so totally different for each person who
experiences it. I had a pretty rough life previous to now, and I believe
that art and specifically clay art can be extremely therapeutic to people
who are in pain, both psychologically and physically. I intend to pursue art
therapy after I am finished with school.
My two cents worth, (and hopefully worth a few cents more to someone)
Karen R. Betts
Ceramics Senior
University of Florida
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