carrie jacobson on mon 5 oct 98
Did this statement last week catch anyone else's eye? Steve in Bath (I
think) wrote:
>When I started production on a treadle Leach wheel I found that
>Stopping every time to take a pot off was time wasting and
>tiring, so pots had to come off a moving wheel.
I have thought an awful lot about this statement since I read it. I've been
throwing for about a year, and I can not imagine the speed at which a
person must throw to be worried about being slowed down by stopping to take
pots off the wheel.
How fast do people out there throw? How long does it take to make an
average soup or salad bowl? How many do you throw in a day? (Don't feel you
have to answer based on bowls. Anything.)
I am not all that interested in speed at this point, but speed in throwing
as a concept, eventually to become a goal/challenge of some sort, this
interests me.
Best,
Carrie
Carrie Jacobson
Pawcatuck, CT
mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com
Dannon Rhudy on tue 6 oct 98
----------
> From: carrie jacobson
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: production
>
> How fast do people out there throw? How long does it take to make an
> average soup or salad bowl?
Speed of throwing depends on more than one
variable, the size and conformation of the piece,
preparation and placement of clay, placement of
wareboards, stopping/starting (or not) the wheel,
the skill/experience/intent of the potter
spring to mind, for starts. Allowing for those things,
however, you'd likely be surprised at how quickly
a cereal bowl, for instance, or a plate, can be
thrown. A few seconds, usually.
I remember my first semester of ceramics, we were
shown a video of Ken Fergusson being interviewed,
and during the interview he was throwing some
porcelain mid-size bowl --ish things. I was stunned
by his skill and speed, actually timed him I was so
unbelieving. Took him just under 30 seconds to
center, open, remove to a ware board, start the next.
(I remember him saying he did not prepare his own
clay for these, that someone came in, wedged, weighed,
etc. for him. Don't know which I envied most, his
speed or the thought of an endless supply of perfect
little round balls of clay...)
I've seen video of people working in production
potteries in Germany and the wheel never stops,
all the wheels are run from a single belt, same
speed all wheels/all time - workers unconcernedly
making a piece, setting it off, starting the next -
a few seconds per piece.
Practice. Practice.
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
Donn Buchfinck on tue 6 oct 98
I am a mad thrower, I throw all day, I kick ass, I am a clay God,
Sorry this is not me
I find too many people out there who are in competition with industry, and
industry will win. I live in Sanfrancisco and I can go down to china town
here in the city and buy perfect celedons and copper reds dirt cheap, and they
are wonderfull pots, made by potters, they are in another country but they
make great pots, I cannot compeat with these people. so I look to make pots
that have something of what I am, I cannot use a giffen grip on my pots. a
lot of them are not even round.
I do not understand the person who works on a leach wheel and has concerns
about speed. I have seen Warren Mackenzie at a workshop and he can outproduce
anyone on one of those treadle wheels. I have an electric wheel "A soldner
P-200, I wouldn't recomend it" and I find myself slowing the wheel down, realy
learning to enjoy the expeience of the act of moving the clay, I am trying to
become contious of my mood when I throw, I guess it is becoming more
medatative for me.
Ultimatly look to yourself and set your own pace. It would seem to me that
the treadle wheel potter is an intense driven person. He had set his own
pace, but God forbid that anyone pattern themselves after someone elses pace
of production.
Thanks
Donn "the realy intouch with myself" Buchfinck
gwalker on tue 6 oct 98
Dear Carrie,
Steve s note also caught my eye. Although I have never liked kick wheels
of any type (if I had to use one it would have an very heavy,
direct-kick flywheel, though ) my first two electric wheels had to be
turned off at a switch to actually stop them altogether. This used to
annoy me, so at least with small items I learnt to take pots off the
wheel while it was still moving at about 20 revs only.
Many of the tutors I have had over the years seemed to throw so much
slower than I liked, as do some of the professional potters amongst my
mates here. I like to centre smallish amounts of clay at about 300 revs,
and then slow down as the piece gets larger. Of course a 2 or 3 foot
platter requires a very slow speed when it is approaching full size. A
very old farmer made me a wheel about 25 years ago from an English
design (Murray Fieldhouse, I think???) which used variable speed pulleys
and belt drive. The advantage of this type of design is that at slower
speeds the wheels have just as much power as at top revs., the opposite
to cone driven wheels.
As to production: I have two throwers (used to have 4) at the Pottery,
and smaller items like coffee mugs and breakfast bowls are produced at a
relaxed several hundred in a normal day. When pushed, though, 600 mugs
in a longish day is not out of the question. A finisher does all turning
and handling etc., although the thrower of the pot usually finishes
knobs on lids and the like.
Remember that this is not typical as we are a production pottery. When I
was working with just one partner many years ago, we both saw our own
pots through from concept to completion, the only exception being
application of pulled handles where the two of us would sit together,
one pulling and applying, and the other tidying up. This worked well and
got through the task more pleasantly.
I hope this gives you a bit of an insight into production pottery,
Carrie. There are a thousand ways of doing things. This is my way. Now I
will duck for cover! LOL!
Geoff Walker,
Cronulla Pottery
Gold Coast
Australia.
Betty Burroughs on tue 6 oct 98
Carrie, While in Ireland last summer, we visited the Nicholas Moss
Pottery and watched a potter throwing cream jugs. He told us he threw 400 in
a morning and then threw something else in the afternoon. We timed him and
he averaged one jug in 15 seconds. He didn't slow down the wheel to remove
any either, and his aim when throwing on another ball of clay was dead
on-centre. He was quite amazing to watch!
_____________________________
Betty Burroughs
Victoria, BC
Canada
Stephen Mills on tue 6 oct 98
Carrie,
It's not speed that was/is the issue, it's rhythm. I cannot (especially
these days) throw at speed on a treadle wheel, nor would I want to. When
I converted to an electric wheel I had to govern it down!! flying pots!
When you get a throwing rhythm going it's like keeping time while
playing a musical instrument. BUT more importantly it's LESS tiring,
sure you speed up a little when centering, but very little. And you slow
down a bit when finishing, but stopping is a whole different thing.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , carrie jacobson writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Did this statement last week catch anyone else's eye? Steve in Bath (I
>think) wrote:
>
>>When I started production on a treadle Leach wheel I found that
>>Stopping every time to take a pot off was time wasting and
>>tiring, so pots had to come off a moving wheel.
>
>I have thought an awful lot about this statement since I read it. I've been
>throwing for about a year, and I can not imagine the speed at which a
>person must throw to be worried about being slowed down by stopping to take
>pots off the wheel.
>
>How fast do people out there throw? How long does it take to make an
>average soup or salad bowl? How many do you throw in a day? (Don't feel you
>have to answer based on bowls. Anything.)
>
>I am not all that interested in speed at this point, but speed in throwing
>as a concept, eventually to become a goal/challenge of some sort, this
>interests me.
>
>Best,
>
>Carrie
>
>
>Carrie Jacobson
>Pawcatuck, CT
>mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com
>
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
Cheryl L Litman on wed 7 oct 98
I watched someone at a craft show this weekend making little jars and she
started with a square of clay cut right from the bag. No wedging, no
rounding.
Cheryl Litman
Somerset, NJ
email: cheryllitman@juno.com
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:06:17 EDT Betty Burroughs
writes:
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>Carrie, While in Ireland last summer, we visited the Nicholas Moss
>Pottery and watched a potter throwing cream jugs. He told us he threw
>400 in
>a morning and then threw something else in the afternoon. We timed him
>and
>he averaged one jug in 15 seconds. He didn't slow down the wheel to
>remove
>any either, and his aim when throwing on another ball of clay was dead
>on-centre. He was quite amazing to watch!
>
>
>_____________________________
>Betty Burroughs
>Victoria, BC
>Canada
>
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Potterman on wed 7 oct 98
-----Original Message-----
From: Donn Buchfinck
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: production
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I am a mad thrower, I throw all day, I kick ass, I am a clay God,
>
>Sorry this is not me
>I find too many people out there who are in competition with industry, and
>industry will win. I live in Sanfrancisco and I can go down to china town
>here in the city and buy perfect celedons and copper reds dirt cheap, and
they
>are wonderfull pots, made by potters, they are in another country but they
>make great pots, I cannot compeat with these people. so I look to make
pots
>that have something of what I am, I cannot use a giffen grip on my pots.
a
>lot of them are not even round.
>
>I do not understand the person who works on a leach wheel and has concerns
>about speed. I have seen Warren Mackenzie at a workshop and he can
outproduce
>anyone on one of those treadle wheels. I have an electric wheel "A soldner
>P-200, I wouldn't recomend it" and I find myself slowing the wheel down,
realy
>learning to enjoy the expeience of the act of moving the clay, I am trying
to
>become contious of my mood when I throw, I guess it is becoming more
>medatative for me.
>
>Ultimatly look to yourself and set your own pace. It would seem to me that
>the treadle wheel potter is an intense driven person. He had set his own
>pace, but God forbid that anyone pattern themselves after someone elses
pace
>of production.
>
>Thanks
>Donn "the realy intouch with myself" Buchfinck
Don,
I'm not a production potter by any means, but I started out on electric
wheels (Brent CXC) and was introduced to kick-wheels about a year and a half
ago. I now prefer a kickwheel because IT SUIT MY STYLE, and I think that is
what it comes down to...what is your style...do you like quick and furious,
little pots or large, ominous FORMs which require gentle hands.
Karsten
>
Bill Amsterlaw on thu 8 oct 98
Hi Donn and others:
I offer some of my thoughts....
I am far more concerned with quality than quantity - yet I have come to the
amazing realization that working fast improves the quality of what I am
trying to do in clay.
The "quality" I seek (I am working on this...) calls for pots that sing a
certain kind of song. I want each pot to have individual character - to
have unique, asymmetrical, unpremeditated features that arise from the
little "accidents" that result from working fast. I want the marks of
these accidents to remain on each pot as the honest evidence of my
craftsmanship. I think that these marks, shown with pride, give a pot
character.
I try to work fast for personal reasons that derive from objective
self-scrutiny and scrutiny of my work. By working fast, I overcome what I
consider to be a flaw in my own character which is an outgrowth of
insecurity - a tendency to be a fussy perfectionist and to think too much.
If I work too slow, my pots will be stiff, controlled, contrived, and
self-conscious with all sorts of silly cosmetic "fixes" and cover-ups. The
result is sterile, lifeless, forgettable stuff that cries out for the
hammer. By working fast, I can bring out something inside of me that would
be hidden by this tendency to be a perfectionist.
I read in Susan Peterson's book on Hamada Shoji that Hamada liked to talk
to visitors while he threw teabowls with great speed. He preferred these
conditions because they discouraged self-consciousness, resulting in
livelier work.
The speed of the wheel and the type of wheel has little to do with how fast
a person makes things on it. I once watched Cynthia Bringle throw at a
workshop: I was amazed at how slowly the wheel turned and how casually she
worked - yet she cranked out a huge volume of lively work in a short period
of time. No matter what wheel, if you use soft clay, a slow wheel, and
move your hands fast, you can make pots fast - conditions which are also
conducive to desirable "accidents".
I read this on Clayart: During a throwing demonstration someone asked Ken
Ferguson, "Doesn't that wobble bother you?" Ferguson replied, "I pray for
that wobble!"
- Bill Amsterlaw (wamster@slic.com)
Plattsburgh, NY
Donn Buchfinck wrote:
<<
I am a mad thrower, I throw all day, I kick ass, I am a clay God,
Sorry this is not me I find too many people out there who are in
competition with industry, and industry will win. I live in San Francisco
and I can go down to china town here in the city and buy perfect celedons
and copper reds dirt cheap, and they are wonderfull pots, made by potters,
they are in another country but they make great pots, I cannot compeat
with these people. so I look to make pots that have something of what I
am, I cannot use a giffen grip on my pots. a lot of them are not even
round.
I do not understand the person who works on a leach wheel and has concerns
about speed. I have seen Warren Mackenzie at a workshop and he can
outproduce anyone on one of those treadle wheels. I have an electric wheel
"A soldner P-200, I wouldn't recomend it" and I find myself slowing the
wheel down, realy learning to enjoy the expeience of the act of moving the
clay, I am trying to become contious of my mood when I throw, I guess it
is becoming more medatative for me.
Ultimatly look to yourself and set your own pace. It would seem to me that
the treadle wheel potter is an intense driven person. He had set his own
pace, but God forbid that anyone pattern themselves after someone elses
pace of production.
>>
Earl Brunner on fri 9 oct 98
In a message dated 10/7/98 6:05:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
potterman@sprintmail.com writes:
<< do you like quick and furious,
little pots or large, ominous FORMs which require gentle hands. >>
I fail to see the relationship between the types of pots thrown and the type
of wheels as described. You said it yourself, " I now prefer a kickwheel
because IT SUIT MY STYLE"
Because I chose to use a Robert Brent CXC hardly means I make "quick, and
furious "little pots"
Earl Brunner
Peggy Heer on fri 9 oct 98
Hi Carrie..I asked this ? several years ago on the list and got a variety
of replys.
Nice to see the ? again for the newbies.
I throw very fast but always stop my wheel to take work off. Mug...8 - 10
seconds, handling them is different story ;>}}, soup bowl ...12-15
seconds, cylinder...10"...1 min, plate...2.5 mins. etc etc....this includes
centering, the trim at the bottom and cutting the work off / lifting it to
the ware board. I threw till I was bored or had the ware boards full.
50..12" plates in a morning was usual. It just takes a lot of practice.
;>}}}
I just wish I could throw that fast now...but will again. ;>}}}
As Always in Clay Peggy
-------------------------
>How fast do people out there throw? How long does it take to make an
>average soup or salad bowl? How many do you throw in a day? (Don't feel you
>have to answer based on bowls. Anything.)
>
>I am not all that interested in speed at this point, but speed in throwing
>as a concept, eventually to become a goal/challenge of some sort, this
>interests me.
>
>Best,
>Carrie
Peggy Heer / Heer Pottery E-Mail p4337@connect.ab.ca
52120 Range Road 223
Sherwood Park, AB. Canada T8C 1A7
Phone (403) 922-6270
http://www.ffa.ucalgary.ca/artists/pheer/
http://www.connect.ab.ca/~p4337/
Donn Buchfinck on sun 11 oct 98
I do see a difference between the types of wheels used and the pots that are
produced on them. especaily in the beggining, as a teacher I have tried with
success to slow down the beggining students on the wheels they are on, the
majority of the wheels are CXC's. and with the slower wheel came nicer pots.
I find when the wheel is turning fast the students want to make machiened
pots, but as they slow down a little more gesture and life goes into the
pots.
I have seen people on a Leach treadle wheel throw like they are on a lathe.
so at times the wheel does not matter, but for me, different types of wheels
do make different types of pots.
Thanks
Donn "the flue almost is killing me" Buchfinck
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