David Hendley on mon 7 dec 98
Well, I can't believe that RR, one of our most dedicated and helpful
respondants, asked for advice from this opinionated
and long-winded group 4 days ago and got no replies.
Maybe everyone wrote him off-list?
I say, of course, without-a-doubt, it's appropriate for Ron to
let us all know which clay suppliers he tests clays for.
Does anyone on this list not know:
Where Marc Ward works when he gives burner advice?
Where Steve Branfman works when he recommends a book?
What Tony Hanson sells? Where Vince Pitelka teaches?
Cameron Harmon's web site? The name of Steve Mill's business?
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
P. S., if you know what Ron looks like, and take a look through
a current Ceramics Monthly magazine, you will find some good
leads for locating Ron Roy-tested claybodies available for sale.
At 05:48 PM 12/2/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>John Post is asking me about clay bodies I maintain and I have replied to
>him off list. I am unsure that posting the suppliers I work for is
>appropriate here - anyone got some advice about this?
>
>In the meantime - if you are close enough to Toronto or Orlando and are
>thinking of buying tested clays - email me off list.
>
>RR
>
>
>>
>>I'm looking for a white stoneware body and an irony stoneware body that
>>mature at cone 6. I have been e-mailed by others on the list who are
>>interested in this as well. Can you share with us whose clay bodies you
>>maintain and their phone #.
>>
Peggy Heer on tue 8 dec 98
Hi All...I agree with David..... as far as I am concerned telling the LIST
where Ron works is important...for Ron and for TUCKER'S POTTERY SUPPLIES
INC. in Ontario CANADA.
Tucker's (re Frank Tucker) is a where I got my GREAT CONE ART ^ 10 kiln
and service from this place is most prompt and professional...in ALLLL
aspects. Frank supplies some of the great clays and the some of the best
equipment used in Canada and abroad and one of the best people ...our own
Ron... works there...now you know when Ron does something it is done
right....
Tucker's Pottery Supplies Inc...a great shopping spot for potters.
As Always in Clay Peggy
Check page 24 in last CM for Ron's picture. No need for politeness
Ron....but then we are Canadians...right. ;>}}}}
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Well, I can't believe that RR, one of our most dedicated and helpful
>respondants, asked for advice from this opinionated
>and long-winded group 4 days ago and got no replies.
>P. S., if you know what Ron looks like, and take a look through
>a current Ceramics Monthly magazine, you will find some good
>leads for locating Ron Roy-tested claybodies available for sale.
>
>
>
>
>At 05:48 PM 12/2/98 EST, you wrote:
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>John Post is asking me about clay bodies I maintain and I have replied to
>>him off list. I am unsure that posting the suppliers I work for is
>>appropriate here - anyone got some advice about this?
>>
>>In the meantime - if you are close enough to Toronto or Orlando and are
>>thinking of buying tested clays - email me off list.
>>
>>RR
>>
>>
>
>>>
>>>I'm looking for a white stoneware body and an irony stoneware body that
>>>mature at cone 6. I have been e-mailed by others on the list who are
>>>interested in this as well. Can you share with us whose clay bodies you
>>>maintain and their phone #.
>>>
Peggy Heer / Heer Pottery E-Mail p4337@connect.ab.ca
52120 Range Road 223
Sherwood Park, AB. Canada T8C 1A7
Phone (403) 922-6270
http://www.ffa.ucalgary.ca/artists/pheer/
http://www.connect.ab.ca/~p4337/
Joseph Herbert on tue 8 dec 98
------------------
After looking at David Hendley=92s remarks about the non-response, I find =
the
apparent mailing list or Internet stance toward commerce strange. The
commercial life of the net will eventually drive it into every home and =
office
and will basically connect most of the world in ways little imagined not to
long ago, yet it is cursed by many.
I will have to say that I don't understand the studied avoidance of the
commercial on this list and on the net in general. Is this a tradition from
the =22good old days=22 when only the pure government and academic employees=
were
on the net? People whose jobs and equipment are supplied by noncommercial
sources -- largely our taxes and some of our tuition. So these pure souls,
elevated and freed by the work of others, insisted on the purity of =
discourse
so no hint of actually making a living crept in. And that tradition lives =
on,
I guess.
I have no particular objection to the mention of products or companies that
our correspondents are familiar with. Certainly critiques of suppliers and
gallery operators are welcome. If a person mentions a book or product that
they are connected with, that is fine as long as I know the connection. If =
I
don't like the product, I can think less of them too.
I don't want the list to become filled with garage sale advertisements or =
life
insurance solicitations. I suppose the inclusion of tangential advertising
adds some burden to the moderators. What to let in, what to exclude. In
conclusion, I would like to know what clays Ron tests. I don't know if I
would use them or if I could even get them, but I would like to know.
Wishing no offense to the commerce free net zone.
Joseph Herbert
JJHerb=40aol.com
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on wed 9 dec 98
Joseph--
This is a connundrum. I can only say that the same problem was apparent at
Wendy Rosen's Craft Business Institute last September. Many crafts people were
horrified by the specter of commerce, while some of us just wanted to make money
by doing something we really love. I don't think the internet is precisely the
problem---except for unwanted advertisements, the attitude of pottery on the
internet is not anti-commerce, just look at Cronulla pottery's Website!
I do think that people all over do feel that if you have a connection with a
commercial enterprise, you are not a moral person if you push your own
product.....as good as it may be, and as willing as you are to share your
knowledge (like Mark Ward! and Ron Roy.) I can't imagine what difference it
makes if Ron tests whatever Tucker sells which I believe is Highwater or
whatever...the advertisement says it all. Who cares? If you have a clay that
works for you, than what different does it make what Ron tests...... Is he
pushing you to buy his product? What if you believe in a product enough to work
for them....does that mean you shouldn't tell everyone how wonderful you believe
the product is...... I think there actually might be salespeople out there
who believe in what they sell----amazing!!!
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Herbert [SMTP:JJHerb@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 3:02 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Ron Roy's clay company connections
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
------------------
After looking at David Hendley's remarks about the non-response, I find the
apparent mailing list or Internet stance toward commerce strange. The
commercial life of the net will eventually drive it into every home and office
and will basically connect most of the world in ways little imagined not to
long ago, yet it is cursed by many.
I will have to say that I don't understand the studied avoidance of the
commercial on this list and on the net in general. Is this a tradition from
the "good old days" when only the pure government and academic employees were
on the net? People whose jobs and equipment are supplied by noncommercial
sources -- largely our taxes and some of our tuition. So these pure souls,
elevated and freed by the work of others, insisted on the purity of discourse
so no hint of actually making a living crept in. And that tradition lives on,
I guess.
I have no particular objection to the mention of products or companies that
our correspondents are familiar with. Certainly critiques of suppliers and
gallery operators are welcome. If a person mentions a book or product that
they are connected with, that is fine as long as I know the connection. If I
don't like the product, I can think less of them too.
I don't want the list to become filled with garage sale advertisements or life
insurance solicitations. I suppose the inclusion of tangential advertising
adds some burden to the moderators. What to let in, what to exclude. In
conclusion, I would like to know what clays Ron tests. I don't know if I
would use them or if I could even get them, but I would like to know.
Wishing no offense to the commerce free net zone.
Joseph Herbert
JJHerb@aol.com
Vince Pitelka on wed 9 dec 98
>I will have to say that I don't understand the studied avoidance of the
>commercial on this list and on the net in general. Is this a tradition from
>the "good old days" when only the pure government and academic employees
>were on the net?
>I don't want the list to become filled with garage sale advertisements or life
>insurance solicitations. I suppose the inclusion of tangential advertising
>adds some burden to the moderators. What to let in, what to exclude.
Joe et al -
This is a good point, but it seems that the moderators are already doing a
good job here. As has been pointed out, Steve Branfman and Marc Ward both
often mention their respective businesses in Clayart posts, as well they
should, considering the valuable services they offer, and the frequent
contributions they makes to this list. I have faith in our moderators to
weed out any crass commercialism posted by non-contributors.
And I appreciate being mentioned in another post on this subject, regarding
my promotion of the Craft Center. But, despite the fact that I often do
appologize for blatantly promoting my facility and programs, I think this
kind of promotional information clearly DOES belong on the list. At the
Appalachian Center for Crafts we have educational opportunities of interest
to everyone, and no individual makes a profit from any response I get from
anyone on the list.
Seems to me that there are some fine points here, and as I said above, I
have complete faith in the practical and reasonable benevolence of Joe
Molinaro and Richard Burkette. It probably boils down to this. Those who
contribute a lot to this list can probably get away a little commercialism
and/or self-promotion now and then.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Ron Roy on fri 11 dec 98
Thanks to all who have voiced there opinions on this - I'll sort it out
eventually.
The following post forces me to clarify some points which I did not
elaborate on in my original question.
I am a consultant to the companies I do work for - I am not employed by
them in the usual sense. I try to keep an arms length relationship with all
of them. It is my standards which - in the long run - I hope will prevail.
This may sound preposterous to some but I think of myself working for
potters - not suppliers.
The two suppliers I currently work for are Tuckers and Axner. I did do some
work for HighWater many years ago but have nothing to do with their clay
production.
It is not a case of me working for a company because I like their product -
rather - is the company willing to try and achieve a higher standard based
on what I think pottery clay should be. It takes a special kind of person
to have me walk into their factory and have me tell them - you have to
spend a lot of money and test your clays and help make pottery more viable
for your customers. Fortunately there are some who realize that in the end
- it is a very good way to sell more clay.
Thanks Sandy for getting me off my perch.
RR
>I do think that people all over do feel that if you have a connection with a
>commercial enterprise, you are not a moral person if you push your own
>product.....as good as it may be, and as willing as you are to share your
>knowledge (like Mark Ward! and Ron Roy.) I can't imagine what difference it
>makes if Ron tests whatever Tucker sells which I believe is Highwater or
>whatever...the advertisement says it all. Who cares? If you have a clay that
>works for you, than what different does it make what Ron tests...... Is he
>pushing you to buy his product? What if you believe in a product enough
>to work
>for them....does that mean you shouldn't tell everyone how wonderful you
>believe
>the product is...... I think there actually might be salespeople out there
>who believe in what they sell----amazing!!!
>Sandy
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough, Ontario
Canada M1G 3N8
Tel: 416-439-2621
Fax: 416-438-7849
Web page: http://digitalfire.com/education/people/ronroy.htm
Tom Wirt on sun 13 dec 98
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Roy
Subject: Re: Ron Roy's clay company connections
>This may sound preposterous to some but I think of myself working >for
>potters - not suppliers.
Ron,
It is certainly NOT preposterous to think of the potter as you client....maybe
even take it as far as the people who buy and use our pots.
The clay companies, I fear, often forget that the potter is not their
customer....the pot user is. (Maybe some of us potters forget that sometimes,
too). Too many things are done for the convenience of the producer, not the
utility and enjoyment of the end user.
Clay companies also forget that if a pot fails because of their clay, it is the
user and potter who pay....not the clay company. I think often about what
happens if one of our pots fails in the oven....dinner on the oven floor and
very possibly a dinner party ruined. This is a very big responsibility.
Tom
Tom Wirt on sun 13 dec 98
Cornwall.....extra water could be causing glaze to shrink early in firing
Calcine the ZO
Replace 1/2 of the EPK with Glomax
Add up to 3% Glaze-Rite....a highly refined Kaolin and suspender
Some 3134 is good. But glaze has little clay and loss of the Gerstley's
claylike
attributes may hurt.
Also, an issue that salts can cause crawling. Recommending not using Epsom
salts as a defloc and substituting the glaze-rite.
Feels the problem is occurring during drying and/or early firing.
-----Original Message-----
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