mel jacobson on wed 19 aug 98
yes lisa, there is a seagrove:
and man, i have never seen so many bad pots in once place in my life.
there are some wonderful potters there...tom gray is a star.
and others too.
but, man, i think everybody in town makes some dorky thing and puts in on the
highway. and the world buys it, thinks they got `real down home art`..
notice, my opinion is never humble.
but, geez, someone has to say it once in awhile.
mel/mn
go get em lisa.
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
bowen dickson on thu 20 aug 98
Friend Mel et al:
Just out of curiosity/perversity...could you enlighten us further
concerning "some dorky thing" and "real down home art"
Best regards, B Dickson/Kingston,Washington
p.s. enjoy the 'stories' thanks
On Wed, 19 Aug 1998, mel jacobson wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> yes lisa, there is a seagrove:
> and man, i have never seen so many bad pots in once place in my life.
>
> there are some wonderful potters there...tom gray is a star.
> and others too.
> but, man, i think everybody in town makes some dorky thing and puts in on the
> highway. and the world buys it, thinks they got `real down home art`..
>
> notice, my opinion is never humble.
> but, geez, someone has to say it once in awhile.
> mel/mn
> go get em lisa.
>
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
Jay S. Gertz on thu 20 aug 98
mel jacobson wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> yes lisa, there is a seagrove:
> and man, i have never seen so many bad pots in once place in my life.
>
> there are some wonderful potters there...tom gray is a star.
> and others too.
> but, man, i think everybody in town makes some dorky thing and puts in on the
> highway. and the world buys it, thinks they got `real down home art`..
>
> notice, my opinion is never humble.
> but, geez, someone has to say it once in awhile.
> mel/mn
> go get em lisa.
>
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Mel,
Wow! I'm glad you brought that one to the surface. As a North Carolinian, but
in the Western part of the state (Asheville), I've often wondered what the hoopl
was about the Seagrove potters. Granted some of them are sacrosanct due to
generations of potters in the family (the Meader's) for example, but geez some o
the traditional "face" jugs look like **** (fill in favorite expletive) to me.
Granted, I'm not a historical or aesthetic expert, but if you go to a ceramics
collection like at the Mint Museum, and study some pre-Columbian pottery, or
native American, or other ceramic works, a great deal of that Seagrove stuff
begins to look trite.
Chris Campbell on thu 20 aug 98
WOW - We are definitely out of the summer doldrums. I was wondering when the
cooler weather would kick in and someone would perk us all up.
Now Lisa is taking on the Highlands Crafts Guild and she and Mel are both
questioning the Seagrove mystique. We are definitely rolling now!!
As a North Carolina potter I have been both proud and embarassed by the pots
friends have bought in Seagrove. Some of the best and loveliest work is just
down the road from junk.
Just like K-Mart is 1/2 a mile from my favourite gallery.
Yes, you are in a pottery making area but as far as I know you don't need a
permit to make the stuff. You do need eyes though to judge the stuff. It is
still a fabulous place to wander through and there are more good - even great
potters - than bad.
As to the Highlands Guild, I may be wrong but I believe they keep artists to
those in the mountains because that is what they guarantee to buyers - that
they are truly getting work made in those hills. Seems reasonable to me.
Chris - in Carolina - loving the stories from Dubai
Jan Adams on fri 21 aug 98
Thanks, Chris.....this place has been dull lately. Nothing like politics
(of all kinds) to perk up a sleepy group! Mel's stories have been wonderful
and the fact that the silence about Seagrove has finally been broken is also
very encouraging. Also noticed that Ben Owen III is around now, so we can
safely say that some of the finest pottery being made now is being made in
Seagrove. I think the main thing to remember is that the pots that seem
trite and garishly glazed to some are considered true folk pottery to
others. Which is not to say that everybody turning out pots in Seagrove is a
folk-potter. I have stood in open-mouthed amazement at some of the pottery
in Seagrove, especially Ben's, Phil Morgan's, and Tom Gray's. I have also
preened while thinking even I could do better than some of the pots I saw.
One of the pieces we have that I love the best is a delicate fluted pot made
by Nell Cole Graves...and, no, I probably wouldn't have bought that piece if
it had been made by anyone else. But that pot is a piece of a tradition,
and was made by hands that had thrown a lot more clay than I will probably
ever see. I have another bowl I paid quite a bit more for that I also
really treasure. Many people probably wouldn't think it was anything very
special, but it was turned by the same hands that provide this list with the
stories that originally got my interest, our very own Mel Jacobson. It is
exquisite.
I have stood in the hot sun more than one day at shows and sold maybe
six or eight pieces of pottery that I was very proud to have made, while the
guy down the street from Seagrove sold ten times that many of his that each
had the same bright commercial-appearing glaze and strongly resembled bad
dishes from any discount store. But the customers went away happy because
they had not only gotten real pottery from Seagrove, but they'd also gotten
it for the same thing they would have paid at Walmart.
Seagrove is just a place that happened to have good clay, so a lot of
potters continue to end up there. The families that have been making pots
for generations are a part of a very rich pottery tradition in NC, so when I
think of Seagrove, those are the pots that automatically come to my mind.
Now I'm going to step into really dangerous territory and say that I
thoroughly understand and appreciate the philosophy of the Highlands Guild
and other artisan groups from the Western part of NC. I'm outside the area
too, Lisa, even though my family is originally from that area and many
remain there. The mountain guilds were originally formed to ensure that
mountain crafts would continue to be done as they have been for centuries.
I think that they have become more and more removed from their initial
intent and some items now being offered have no more to do with mountain
crafts than paint-by-number pictures. I think that if anything, the guilds
need to have stricter guidelines if they are, in fact, to provide NC crafts
as they have been made prior to industialization. Just like folk pottery,
the creation of utilitarian crafts has been passed on, for the most part,
word of mouth from family member to family member. It is the continuation
of a culture that has rapidly disappeared over the last fifty years. It is
very important to me to support in any way possible any organizations that
strive to maintain the craft tradition that provided both survival and
expression to those who came before me. It's not to say your pots aren't
wonderful, they just ain't from the mountains!
I've thoroughly enjoyed watching this group now for over a year and
really admire those strong spirits and voices, not to mention all the
collective years of experience and so much knowledge! Glad to see everybody
getting back to real life.....lol.....
Jan Adams
Mountain View Pottery
Hickory, NC
From: Chris Campbell
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Seagrove
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>WOW - We are definitely out of the summer doldrums. I was wondering when
the
>cooler weather would kick in and someone would perk us all up.
>
>Now Lisa is taking on the Highlands Crafts Guild and she and Mel are both
>questioning the Seagrove mystique. We are definitely rolling now!!
>
>As a North Carolina potter I have been both proud and embarassed by the
pots
>friends have bought in Seagrove. Some of the best and loveliest work is
just
>down the road from junk.
>
>Just like K-Mart is 1/2 a mile from my favourite gallery.
>
>Yes, you are in a pottery making area but as far as I know you don't need a
>permit to make the stuff. You do need eyes though to judge the stuff. It is
>still a fabulous place to wander through and there are more good - even
great
>potters - than bad.
>
>As to the Highlands Guild, I may be wrong but I believe they keep artists
to
>those in the mountains because that is what they guarantee to buyers - that
>they are truly getting work made in those hills. Seems reasonable to me.
>
>Chris - in Carolina - loving the stories from Dubai
lpskeen on fri 21 aug 98
mel jacobson wrote:
> and man, i have never seen so many bad pots in once place in my life.
> but, geez, someone has to say it once in awhile.> go get em lisa.
Well, not all the pots in Seagrove are bad, but I can think of a couple
of places where the pots look like they were made by a student with
about 2 months' experience and glazed with spray paint. I got a note in
private email that said maybe people were asking if I was from Seagrove
because my pots were good and they were surprised. OTOH, it could be
because my pots are BAD! Yikes.
re: face jugs: I hate 'em too. Someone once told me that when somebody
says to him, "Look at this, isn't this face jug great?" he says, "I
don't know, lemme see the back.".
--
Lisa Skeen ICQ# 15554910
Living Tree Pottery & Soaps
http://www.uncg.edu/~lpskeen
"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful
words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of
the good people." -- Dr. M. L. King, Jr. 4/16/63
Carl meigs on fri 21 aug 98
And if all you can remember is the dorky stuff and the work of the new
academic potters who have moved into the area, you have missed an important
part of early American history. There are still people living there
who can tell you about the "pioneer" potters, people who still dig their own
clay out of the stream bed
and who don't really deserve the kind of patronizing condescension that has
occurred here.
Carl Meigs
At 10:48 AM 8/20/98 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>WOW - We are definitely out of the summer doldrums. I was wondering when the
>cooler weather would kick in and someone would perk us all up.
>
>Now Lisa is taking on the Highlands Crafts Guild and she and Mel are both
>questioning the Seagrove mystique. We are definitely rolling now!!
>
>As a North Carolina potter I have been both proud and embarassed by the pots
>friends have bought in Seagrove. Some of the best and loveliest work is just
>down the road from junk.
>
>Just like K-Mart is 1/2 a mile from my favourite gallery.
>
>Yes, you are in a pottery making area but as far as I know you don't need a
>permit to make the stuff. You do need eyes though to judge the stuff. It is
>still a fabulous place to wander through and there are more good - even great
>potters - than bad.
>
>As to the Highlands Guild, I may be wrong but I believe they keep artists to
>those in the mountains because that is what they guarantee to buyers - that
>they are truly getting work made in those hills. Seems reasonable to me.
>
>Chris - in Carolina - loving the stories from Dubai
>
>
meigs@neca.com
Kathi LeSueur on sat 22 aug 98
Seagrove provides the kind of buying opportunity absent from most art fairs: a
wide range of work available at all quality levels appealing to a wide range
of customers who are at all levels of sophistication.
The person who goes to Seagrove and buys his first handmade pot, probably one
of the dreaded face pots, is the potential buyer (years later) of high
quality, sophisticated work. But........ if there isn't something for that
first time buyer he will never come back......... never be exposed to other
kinds of work........... never develop the appreciation and the sophistication
that will cause him to buy pots made by people who think their work is of the
highest quality.
It is often said that art fairs are supposed to be an educational
experience...... show the people what is "good". But it doesn't work that way.
Just as you would never start a 6 year old out in calculus to learn higher
math, you can't start the unsophisticated buyer at the top of the range of
work. You have to start at "two-plus-two". That's what's missing from most
shows today. As a result the number of buyers willing to spend big bucks is
getting thinner and thinner. The market is not being developed with the new
buyer in mind who needs to be brought along.
Perhaps this is the niche that Seagrove fills.
Kathi LeSueur
Originality is failure to remember
lpskeen on sat 22 aug 98
Jan Adams wrote:
>> I thoroughly understand and appreciate the philosophy of the >>Highlands Guil
I do, too, but I was talking about a gallery, not the guild. We went to
the Folk Art Center and saw some really nice pots and some really ugly
ones too, but no raku. Oh, we did see some pots made with that yellow
clay you loaned me.
--
Lisa Skeen ICQ# 15554910
Living Tree Pottery & Soaps
http://www.uncg.edu/~lpskeen
"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful
words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of
the good people." -- Dr. M. L. King, Jr. 4/16/63
John K. Dellow on sat 22 aug 98
All this talk of Sea Grove N.C. has me opening up my 25th anniversary edition of
Craft Horizons. Can any one tell me if any of the old timers used the "Scotch
Friction Wheel" ?. I see in the the feature " Crafts of the Southern Highlands "
picture of Ben Owen using a 75 yr. old kick wheel. I am using a 150 yr. old Scot
Friction wheel i have had fully restored. It was first powered by a steam donkey
engine. I still have the original flat drive pulley.
In the early 1960`s an american professor of ceramics visited the pottery of Nor
Buik ,( the father of the potter who trained me to throw terra-cotta), and said
had never seen a potter throw as well as him, and she had been to every universi
in the states. His answer was " lady you just went to the wrong places". I feel
she had visited Ben , then she would have been equally impressed.
john dellow the flower pot man
> http://digitalfire.com/education/people/dellow/index.html
billie mitchell on sun 23 aug 98
i have been to seagrove. i am a beginner potter
i have seen both good and bad there. but the one
thing i can tell you is they were all helpful to
me. they all took time to share their knowledge
with me. and one potter took the time to sit
down and mark off on their map which potters i
would be intersted in. i say bravo to seagrove
potters for what they have devloped there. there
is some potters there who have gone modern and
dont do face jugs! dont lump everyone into one
catagory. any business there is there is bad and
good. i respect them for what they have built
there. i personally dont see anything wrong with
face jugs, its not my style but it is part of
the ceramic history. everything evolves from
something.
billie mitchell
Carl meigs on mon 24 aug 98
For people who didn't know, there's more about face jugs in "Raised in Clay"
and in "Turners and Burners". Archie Teague from Seagrove ) Old potting
family) told me that sooner or later every potter will make a face jug. Some
speculate that face jugs may have been made and used by slaves as grave markers.
They are part of the local ceramic history.
Carl Meigs
At 10:18 PM 8/23/98 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>i have been to seagrove. i am a beginner potter
>i have seen both good and bad there. but the one
>thing i can tell you is they were all helpful to
>me. they all took time to share their knowledge
>with me. and one potter took the time to sit
>down and mark off on their map which potters i
>would be intersted in. i say bravo to seagrove
>potters for what they have devloped there. there
>is some potters there who have gone modern and
>dont do face jugs! dont lump everyone into one
>catagory. any business there is there is bad and
>good. i respect them for what they have built
>there. i personally dont see anything wrong with
>face jugs, its not my style but it is part of
>the ceramic history. everything evolves from
>something.
>
>
>billie mitchell
>
>
meigs@neca.com
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on tue 25 aug 98
A friend gave me this book for my birthday several years ago. I always thought
that face jugs were ugly--but I've changed my mind after I saw a colleague at my
community pottery studio come into his own as a creative artist by making face
mugs. The characters in his mugs were sculptures that just came out of him, and
he was totally unschooled in art. But the mugs had and have a liveliness,
directness and naivete that is really wonderful and strong. I really enjoy
looking at them and their freshness. I am always looking for freshness in
pots--and not necessarily sophistication.
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl meigs [SMTP:meigs@neca.com]
Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 9:36 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: seagrove
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
For people who didn't know, there's more about face jugs in "Raised in Clay"
and in "Turners and Burners". Archie Teague from Seagrove ) Old potting
family) told me that sooner or later every potter will make a face jug. Some
speculate that face jugs may have been made and used by slaves as grave markers.
They are part of the local ceramic history.
Carl Meigs
At 10:18 PM 8/23/98 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>i have been to seagrove. i am a beginner potter
>i have seen both good and bad there. but the one
>thing i can tell you is they were all helpful to
>me. they all took time to share their knowledge
>with me. and one potter took the time to sit
>down and mark off on their map which potters i
>would be intersted in. i say bravo to seagrove
>potters for what they have devloped there. there
>is some potters there who have gone modern and
>dont do face jugs! dont lump everyone into one
>catagory. any business there is there is bad and
>good. i respect them for what they have built
>there. i personally dont see anything wrong with
>face jugs, its not my style but it is part of
>the ceramic history. everything evolves from
>something.
>
>
>billie mitchell
>
>
meigs@neca.com
Millie on tue 20 nov 01
one thing that I would suggest is that when you go to seagrove and pick up a map
with the locations, ask a potter whose work you like if she or he would help you
mark the map as to which potters work in that style. when I was down there last
spring on the first day my friends and I went, we spent a lot of time looking at
things we didn't particularly care for. (I hate to walk in and turn around and
walk out) One potter was kind enough to suggest that she do this after
overhearing me say to my friend that this was what I wanted to see not the other
stuff. Also, quite a few are closed on Sunday.
Millie in Md. hopefull that I will be able to go back and spend another few days
with my friends and see some of the 90 or so studios that I didn't have time for.
Arnolds Home Improvements wrote:
> Julia
>
> If you are going to be in asheboro, just travel 11 more miles south on US220
> to Seagrove about 120 potters. Be sure to stop at Turn and Burn Pottery and
> visit my friend David Garner, he is one of the nicest people you would want
> to meet and can direct you to the other potters in the area. Also the N.C.
> pottery center is there.
>
> Gene Arnold
> mudduck@advi.net
> Playing in the mud in N.C.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MisUnruly
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Sunday, November 18, 2001 10:00 PM
> Subject: anyone in these area's ?
>
> I am going to be in asheboro north carolina tomorrow night and tuesday
> night. is there anything pottery related there worth seeing?
Forrest on mon 9 jul 07
This is my first posting, though I've been reading Clayart for years.
You must visit Ben Owens. He is so gracious, so talented, so down-to-earth.
If you are lucky enough to catch him in the studio, he may allow you to
watch. I went in May and he let me watch for hours. It was almost like a
workshop. I should warn you that the official policy is no tourists in the
studio but you may be able to see from outside, or if he's not really busy,
he may invite you in as he did with me. A real artist and a gentleman.
R. Forrest
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