Joyce Lee on sat 30 jan 99
Seems I've gradually switched to porcelain claybodies which I assume,
with less grog than my former clays, may be the cause of my clay seeming
stiffer and less pliable for throwing the last few months. Having
limited experience with claybodies and vast experience with my own
frustrating learning style, I figured that my wheel work had "plateaued"
and I'd just be stuck there until ready to move on. Not so. Thanks to
all the posts on softening clay and using a pugmill for wedging, I
doweled holes into my bagged commercial clay, poured in hot water,
closed the bag... then finally removed the blocks of hardened clay in my
small Bluebird de-airing pugmill and wedged a bag...yesterday I rather
easily threw a much all-round better and larger bowl (15 lbs...a whole
lot for me...wonder how much is extra water...), which is still slowly
spinning at the moment for fear that I'll warp it somehow when I
transfer it from wheel to damp box. Now I'm rereading all my old posts
on prevention of warped bowls...so maybe I'm moving into a new
era...hope so.
Joyce
In the Mojave with light dawning as to why #1 Support Person removed the
screws that attached the front part of the pugmill, where the pug exits,
to its body...and replaced the screws with heavy clips...much easier for
me to remove the clips and then the dampened hard block of clay...I
know...I should treat my pugmill better, but I didn't know about such
things when the same #1SP placed it next to the unused Bluebird mixer,
commenting over my protests about money etc, "Later you'll want it."
Knows me, doesn't he?
Donn Buchfinck on tue 2 feb 99
A lot of commercially made clay is made too hard, or it becomes too hard.
I teach at an art center and we use company "X" clays and they are rock hard
in the bag.
a lot of times we have to pour a cup of water in the bag and then seal it and
let it sit. It is better then, but then the students have to wedge it,
frankly the clay is better after it has been thrown and re wedged.
the problem with commercially made clay is that if a company is large like
company "X" they do very large runs of clay. I bet the person looking at the
clay comming out of the pug mill IS NOT a potter and if bentonite is added to
the clay I bet sometimes the water content is not adjusted so that when the
bentonite soakes up more water in the clay it doesn't turn the clay into a 25
lb leatherhard brick.
also as individual potters we use smaller amounts of clay than a large planter
production houses. so when we complain to company "X" they can ignore us,
telling us that "you're the only one with that problem"
also there is a lot of ram pressing going on in the world. And the ram press
potteries buy more clay than the small potteries so they make the clay harder
so it can go through the ram press and stand up.
the thing that has to happen is that
WE HAVE TO CALL COMPANY "X" AND COMPLAIN
tell them that thier product is not working for you
that it is hurting your wrists
hell it hurts my wrist, I have beggining students and they are having
problems throwing and I sit down to help and the clay is like a stone, I know
what the problem is
I thought we use this clay for CONVIENCE but If I have to open up the bag and
soak it down then re-wedge it,
that is not very convienient.
Softer clay makes for a more enyoyable throwing experience anyway.
Donn Buchfinck
David Hendley on wed 3 feb 99
Funny, Donn, my complaint is always that purchased clay
is too soft to throw anything taller than 6 inches.
Not to be argumentative, but here are some considerations.
As a potter who has also worked for a clay company, I can
tell you that even if "the person looking at the clay coming
out of the pugmill" IS a potter, when clay is shooting out of
a pugmill at 10 pounds a second it's a fine line between making
the clay too stiff, too soft, and just right.
It really is a skilled job that requires experience.
I promise you, the clay company does not want to sell you
a product that you don't like.
I can also tell you that for every call the company gets
complaining that their clay is too hard, there is a call complianing
that it is too soft. It is truly impossible to please everyone.
Like the boy who cried "wolf" once too often, from time to
time we had customers who complained so much that we ignored
them; their business was simply not worth the hassle of all
the complaints.
If the clay from your present supplier is always and consistantly
too hard, switch suppliers.
I'm particular about my clay, and that's why I mix my own
claybody. I know I'm becoming more of dinosaur, but I also
think that students, especially beginners, should mix their
own clay. Heck, on the first day of my first ceramics class, we
made clay on the floor, using our feet to mix it. Man, I learned
a lot from that. Still remember it vividly all these years later.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
At 12:49 PM 2/2/99 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>A lot of commercially made clay is made too hard, or it becomes too hard.
>I teach at an art center and we use company "X" clays and they are rock hard
>in the bag.
>a lot of times we have to pour a cup of water in the bag and then seal it and
>let it sit. It is better then, but then the students have to wedge it,
>frankly the clay is better after it has been thrown and re wedged.
>the problem with commercially made clay is that if a company is large like
>company "X" they do very large runs of clay. I bet the person looking at
the
>clay comming out of the pug mill IS NOT a potter and if bentonite is added to
>the clay I bet sometimes the water content is not adjusted so that when the
>bentonite soakes up more water in the clay it doesn't turn the clay into a 25
>lb leatherhard brick.
>also as individual potters we use smaller amounts of clay than a large
planter
>production houses. so when we complain to company "X" they can ignore us,
>telling us that "you're the only one with that problem"
>also there is a lot of ram pressing going on in the world. And the ram press
>potteries buy more clay than the small potteries so they make the clay harder
>so it can go through the ram press and stand up.
>the thing that has to happen is that
>WE HAVE TO CALL COMPANY "X" AND COMPLAIN
>tell them that thier product is not working for you
>that it is hurting your wrists
>hell it hurts my wrist, I have beggining students and they are having
>problems throwing and I sit down to help and the clay is like a stone, I know
>what the problem is
>I thought we use this clay for CONVIENCE but If I have to open up the bag and
>soak it down then re-wedge it,
> that is not very convienient.
>Softer clay makes for a more enyoyable throwing experience anyway.
>
>Donn Buchfinck
>
Marty Anderson on thu 4 feb 99
I agree with David. Change suppliers. I am very happy with Trinity
Ceramics of Dallas and Texas Pottery in Ft. Worth. There clay body's are
very soft, which is the way I like to use it. I cannot wedge or throw hard
clay. I can also throw higher than a 6 inch cylinder out of soft clay.
marty
martya@airmail.net
-----Original Message-----
From: David Hendley
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pugmill/soft clay
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Funny, Donn, my complaint is always that purchased clay
is too soft to throw anything taller than 6 inches.
Not to be argumentative, but here are some considerations.
As a potter who has also worked for a clay company, I can
tell you that even if "the person looking at the clay coming
out of the pugmill" IS a potter, when clay is shooting out of
a pugmill at 10 pounds a second it's a fine line between making
the clay too stiff, too soft, and just right.
It really is a skilled job that requires experience.
I promise you, the clay company does not want to sell you
a product that you don't like.
I can also tell you that for every call the company gets
complaining that their clay is too hard, there is a call complianing
that it is too soft. It is truly impossible to please everyone.
Like the boy who cried "wolf" once too often, from time to
time we had customers who complained so much that we ignored
them; their business was simply not worth the hassle of all
the complaints.
If the clay from your present supplier is always and consistantly
too hard, switch suppliers.
I'm particular about my clay, and that's why I mix my own
claybody. I know I'm becoming more of dinosaur, but I also
think that students, especially beginners, should mix their
own clay. Heck, on the first day of my first ceramics class, we
made clay on the floor, using our feet to mix it. Man, I learned
a lot from that. Still remember it vividly all these years later.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
At 12:49 PM 2/2/99 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>A lot of commercially made clay is made too hard, or it becomes too hard.
>I teach at an art center and we use company "X" clays and they are rock
hard
>in the bag.
>a lot of times we have to pour a cup of water in the bag and then seal it
and
>let it sit. It is better then, but then the students have to wedge it,
>frankly the clay is better after it has been thrown and re wedged.
>the problem with commercially made clay is that if a company is large like
>company "X" they do very large runs of clay. I bet the person looking at
the
>clay comming out of the pug mill IS NOT a potter and if bentonite is added
to
>the clay I bet sometimes the water content is not adjusted so that when the
>bentonite soakes up more water in the clay it doesn't turn the clay into a
25
>lb leatherhard brick.
>also as individual potters we use smaller amounts of clay than a large
planter
>production houses. so when we complain to company "X" they can ignore us,
>telling us that "you're the only one with that problem"
>also there is a lot of ram pressing going on in the world. And the ram
press
>potteries buy more clay than the small potteries so they make the clay
harder
>so it can go through the ram press and stand up.
>the thing that has to happen is that
>WE HAVE TO CALL COMPANY "X" AND COMPLAIN
>tell them that thier product is not working for you
>that it is hurting your wrists
>hell it hurts my wrist, I have beggining students and they are having
>problems throwing and I sit down to help and the clay is like a stone, I
know
>what the problem is
>I thought we use this clay for CONVIENCE but If I have to open up the bag
and
>soak it down then re-wedge it,
> that is not very convienient.
>Softer clay makes for a more enyoyable throwing experience anyway.
>
>Donn Buchfinck
>
Kathi LeSueur on fri 5 feb 99
I agree with David's opinion that beginning students should learn to make
clay. When I first started teaching at a boys school in Michigan years ago the
clay was bought premixed. My students felt they always had to have "new" clay
and were actually throwing the "old" clay away. I ordered enough ingredients
to make 1000 pounds of clay, some plastic garbage cans and set them to work
mixing their own. It didn't take long for them to respect the fruits of their
labors and the discarding of "old" clay ended.
As for my own clay, I have neither the time nor to make clay nor the space for
equipment and supplies. I'm very happy with Armadillo clay in Austin, TX. I
ship their clay to Michigan. I can order the clay soft, medium, or firm. While
there is some variation, it is well within acceptability for me.
Kathi
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