carrie or peter jacobson on sun 21 feb 99
I also saw the Antiques Roadshow with Ohr's pottery... though I spent an
awful long time looking for someone named Orr...
Here is the Internet site that seems to best describe the man and his work
(which, I read *somewhere* is the most copied in America):
http://www.georgeohr.org/dbase.shtml
Also, Amazon has a deep discount ($30) on the $85 book this place has for
sale. I don't know if The Potters Shop has any books on Ohr...
Carrie
Carrie Jacobson
Pawcatuck, CT
mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com
Andrew Lubow on sun 21 feb 99
Try this site George Ohr Arts and Cultural Center
http://www.georgeohr.org./
Andy Lubow
Email: Disneylover@msn.com
Visit our Expedia North American Forum @
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Travel Resources Chat 9:00 PM Eastern, Wednesdays
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-----Original Message-----
From: carrie or peter jacobson
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 10:22 AM
Subject: George Ohr
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I also saw the Antiques Roadshow with Ohr's pottery... though I spent an
awful long time looking for someone named Orr...
Here is the Internet site that seems to best describe the man and his work
(which, I read *somewhere* is the most copied in America):
http://www.georgeohr.org/dbase.shtml
Also, Amazon has a deep discount ($30) on the $85 book this place has for
sale. I don't know if The Potters Shop has any books on Ohr...
Carrie
Carrie Jacobson
Pawcatuck, CT
mailto:jacobson@brainiac.com
Anji Henderson on thu 22 jun 00
Hi Christina...
A good start would probably be
http://www.pbs.org/
You could e-mail them and ask...
Anji
--- Huske Christina wrote:
> I've been told of a PBS film shown several years ago
> about George Ohr.
> Does anyone know how I could to get a copy of the
> film?
> I would appreciate any help. Thanks.
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
Kathleen Smead on thu 22 jun 00
Dear Christina
You might call the George Ohr Museum in Biloxi Mississippi. They have about
anything and everything
you might want to have or know about wild man George. Call directory
assistance in Biloxi. It's a small
town and the museum is one of their highlights.
katie
klay@pcola.gulf.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Huske Christina
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 11:39 AM
Subject: George Ohr
> I've been told of a PBS film shown several years ago about George Ohr.
> Does anyone know how I could to get a copy of the film?
> I would appreciate any help. Thanks.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
CWilyums@AOL.COM on thu 22 jun 00
There is such a video. This was formally available from Mississippi ETV,
however, the Ohr family has apparantly made some waves over the continued
sale of this video and it has been removed from the shelf. You might try
Miss. ETV and see if they can direct you to someone that has the video. I
have seen the video and it is very well done and tells George Ohr,s story
well. Also, there is a book in print titled "The MAD POTTER OF BOLOXI, The
Art and Life of George E. Ohr". Published by Abbeville Press: Authors: Clark,
Ellison and Hecht.
Hope this helps,
C Williams (Mississippi MudCat Pottery)
Huske Christina on thu 22 jun 00
I've been told of a PBS film shown several years ago about George Ohr.
Does anyone know how I could to get a copy of the film?
I would appreciate any help. Thanks.
Joyce Lee on fri 23 jun 00
We've had so many websites listed lately that I haven't tried to keep up
with all of them .... just delete. That's not a criticism of the
generous work several Clayarters have generated in order to provide such
riches ... just too much for me with all the other clay play I need to
do. However, I did click on to the George Ohr site, and am overcome!!And
I hadn't even heard of him until a couple of months ago!! So glad I gave
it a look. It's difficult to grasp that this work was done so long ago.
We often declare that most original artists were or are ahead of their
time ... but George the Madman really was. I don't have to know much
about art or pottery to recognize his reach into the future. I'm now a
fan and wish he were still around so I could go get him to employ me
..... very impressive! I think I'm partial to artists
who are a little "mad" ..... men and women ...
Joyce
In the Mojave where the roadrunner ... all fluffed out from bathing
under our faucet ... came pecking on the sliding glass doors again
today... first time this year ... come to think of it, he's a George Ohr
sort.... just in fowl form........
Helen Bates on fri 23 jun 00
I couldn't find any info online about the George Ohr video, but did find
these URLS:
http://www.p4a.com/login.asp
> George Ohr; Vase, Mottled Green, Applied Snake, 6 inch.
> Sold for $4,180.00 at St. Charles Gallery
http://www.hudsonvalleyantiques.com/midhudson/
http://www.hudsonvalleyantiques.com/midhudson/images/roth7.jpg
SATURDAY, MAY 22, 1999
George Ohr - Large clay pot, $11,500
George Ohr pottery (26 pieces), $75,900
http://www.reynoldahouse.org/ohr.htm
http://www.reynoldahouse.org/ohrpot.htm
> Green earthenware vase, signed on base: G. E. Ohr, Biloxi, Miss.
> Ovid form vase with scalloped rim and floral folded design
> Height: 6 3/8 inches; diamerter: 6 1/8 inches
> George E. Ohr, 1857-1918
>
> George E.Ohr was the first abstract artist in the United
> States. Presently considered one of the most brilliant
> ceramicists of the 20th century, he was a radical and
> sophisticated artist dismissed as eccentric by artists
> and critics of his time.
http://www.visualartistry.com/artbooks/books/ohr.htm
Featured Books About George Ohr
The Mad Potter of Biloxi: The Art and Life of George E. Ohr
Garth Clark Robert A. Ellison Eugene Heicht
>From Publisher's Weekly: The self-styled ``Biloxi Mud
Dauber,'' Mississippi art potter Ohr (1857-1918) produced
thousands of ceramic pieces that were out of step with their
time. Detractors have called them bizarre, crude, even ugly, but
his supporters saw Ohr as an eccentric genius, a romantic who
staked unexplored aesthetic territory with unprecedented shapes
and idiosyncratic glazes, and created a polychromatic spectrum
of works. A picaresque rebel with flashing eyes and a long white
beard, Ohr deemed these pots his ``mud babies.''
bn.com Price: $68.00
Retail Price: $85.00
You Save: $17.00 (20%)
In-Stock: Ships 2-3 days
Format: Hardcover, 192pp.
ISBN: 0896599272
Publisher: Abbeville Press,
Incorporated
Pub. Date: November 1990
bn.com sales rank:
165,378
http://www.booksnbeyond.com/page222.html
PS-028-0100 After the Fire: George Ohr: American Genius $25.00\ 22.50
By Hecht. Over 100 pieces from an exhibition of Ohr's work. Terrific
photos/descriptions, and many archival photos never before published.
Included is a biography and commentary. Paperback.
George E. Ohr Museum
136 George E. Ohr Street, Biloxi, MS 39531 (601)374-5546
His pottery can be seen on display at:
Moran's Art Studio, Biloxi
Biloxi Library and Cultural Center, George Ohr Street, Biloxi, MS
The Smithsonian Institution, Washington D.C.
The Mississippi State Historical Museum, Jackson, MS,
The Metropolitan Museum of Art
The Museum of Modern Art, New York, NY
The Brooklyn Museum, NY
Los Angleles County Museum of Art, CA
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=364247053
GEORGE OHR RARE FOLDED VASE SUPER RARE Item #364247053
Current bid: $783.00 (reserve not yet met)
==================================================================
Of general interest for history of clay work in America:
http://www.reynoldahouse.org/tilepots.htm
Collection of American Tiles and American Art Pottery.
--
Helen
=========================================================
Helen Bates
mailto:nell@reach.net
=========================================================
JODO96@AOL.COM on fri 23 jun 00
I suggest that you call your local PBS station and talk with the program
director, he can probably help you. I contacted them several years ago about
a wood fire program and they were able to help.
Dorothy Weber
Manakin-Sabot, Va.
TERIKENS@AOL.COM on fri 23 jun 00
Hi you might want to go to this site also...it's the George Ohr Museum web
site. Hope this helps.
http://www.georgeohr.org/
Thanks,
--Terri Kennedy
Potterri
* " Have you given your clay a little wedgie today?"
Morris, Marlene F. on fri 23 jun 00
http://www.georgeohr.org/Ohr.html
is the website, they may have it there.
Gotta say, this is site is an example of web design gone just plain
annoying. The old website was a little plain and could have used some
sprucing up, but this ... ack!
I'd be interested in the film, too.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Smead [mailto:klay@PCOLA.GULF.NET]
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 6:53 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: George Ohr
Dear Christina
You might call the George Ohr Museum in Biloxi Mississippi. They have about
anything and everything
you might want to have or know about wild man George. Call directory
assistance in Biloxi. It's a small
town and the museum is one of their highlights.
katie
klay@pcola.gulf.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Huske Christina
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 11:39 AM
Subject: George Ohr
> I've been told of a PBS film shown several years ago about George Ohr.
> Does anyone know how I could to get a copy of the film?
> I would appreciate any help. Thanks.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Mayssan1@AOL.COM on sat 24 jun 00
Joyce
I thought I was the only one with such a reaction to George Ohr's pottery.
But here you are saying exactly what I was feeling. Mad or not I think this
is the most amazing pottery I've seen.
Mayssan
Marcia Selsor on sat 24 jun 00
Dear Joyce,
George Ohr was nearly forgotten until 1973 when someone opened a
warehouse and found lots of his pots. Saw a show of some of his work in
Atlanta in 1980. I have the book, Mad Potter of Biloxi. My students have
really enjoyed reading about him. Great book if you ever can borrow it
from somewhere.
Marcia
Joyce Lee wrote:
>
> We've had so many websites listed lately that I haven't tried to keep up
> with all of them .... just delete. That's not a criticism of the
> generous work several Clayarters have generated in order to provide such
> riches ... just too much for me with all the other clay play I need to
> do. However, I did click on to the George Ohr site, and am overcome!!And
> I hadn't even heard of him until a couple of months ago!! So glad I gave
> it a look. It's difficult to grasp that this work was done so long ago.
> We often declare that most original artists were or are ahead of their
> time ... but George the Madman really was. I don't have to know much
> about art or pottery to recognize his reach into the future. I'm now a
> fan and wish he were still around so I could go get him to employ me
> ..... very impressive! I think I'm partial to artists
> who are a little "mad" ..... men and women ...
>
> Joyce
> In the Mojave where the roadrunner ... all fluffed out from bathing
> under our faucet ... came pecking on the sliding glass doors again
> today... first time this year ... come to think of it, he's a George Ohr
> sort.... just in fowl form........
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/spain99.html
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/selsor/welcome.html
Sherry Lutz on sun 25 jun 00
Hey Terri, neat site! Marked it so I can check it out again when I have more
time. Sherry
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: George Ohr
> Hi you might want to go to this site also...it's the George Ohr Museum web
> site. Hope this helps.
>
> http://www.georgeohr.org/
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Terri Kennedy
>
> Potterri
>
> * " Have you given your clay a little wedgie today?"
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Des Howard on mon 26 jun 00
I don't what the hell the site did, I had to hit Control Alt Delete
to get out of its clutches.
Ohr may not have been mad, but the site is looking that way.
Des
"Morris, Marlene F." wrote:
> http://www.georgeohr.org/Ohr.html
> is the website, they may have it there.
>
> Gotta say, this is site is an example of web design gone just plain
> annoying. The old website was a little plain and could have used some
> sprucing up, but this ... ack!
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
Eve Behar on tue 27 jun 00
Did you try just calling PBS? Try New York's. Ask for the tape library.
You never know.
Joyce Lee on thu 6 jul 00
Several of you direct posted about your feelings on selling your pots.
What exciting reading! And how rewarding to find other kindred spirits
scattered about the earth .... not all feeling exactly the same as I do,
but with intriguing nuances to the same subject. Wish you'd post them,
but I understand that not everybody experiences that compulsion to
express it to the world whenever one has a bb (brain bomb) go bonkers.
George Ohr..... thank you for telling me about him. I LOVE that book...
and those pots. I notice from the background of his photos that he also
production lined tons of nice functional, small, conventional pots ...
his shelves are crammed with them. Probably his bread&butter work. So
even though he had a warehouse of wondrous pots that weren't sold, he
did make his living from clay. Some of his work reminds me of Beatrice
Wood's pots .... but with a flair that, to my mind, Ms Wood didn't
have.... or at least did not offer to the world in her pottery. Her line
drawings, yes... wonderful.......her writing, you bet........ her
personal style... no comparison; strictly her own. But to my eyes her
pots reflect a contrived attempt to be eccentric ... perhaps to capture
the verve, which she expressed so casually and effortlessly in other
parts of her life. .... to capture that in clay. George Ohr's work DOES
reflect his eccentric genius, in my immodest opinion (pretty safe ground
there, eh?) ... AND what must have been an immense energy and love for
each of his more stunning pots. NOW THAT'S what I want to do ...... not
pots LIKE his, though that would be very happy-making ... but pots that
reflect such a true expression of my own personal perspective. Actually,
that last line rather embarrasses me .... such nerve ... but we do each
possess that personal core seen by few, if by anybody, sometimes not
even by ourselves .... wouldn't it be superbly satisfying to give it
concrete expression? I think I'm beginning to have a glimmer about this
art stuff ... heart stuff... thank you, Clayart.
Joyce
In the Mojave going out to practice "striking" .... as I understand it
to be ... at least once more ... since Bacia (speaking of original!)
triggered my interest ..... and Marta triggered Bacia's..... and
Anderson Ranch (I think) triggered Marta's...... isn't Clayart beyond
compare?
Kenneth D. Westfall on thu 14 sep 00
Christina,
I would suggest that you contact the George E Ohr Arts & Cultural Center.
136 G.E. Ohr Street, Biloxi, MS 39530 USA 228-374-5547 or
www.georgeohr.org
Make your way to Biloxi sometime. This is a fantastic museum.
The gift shop probably has the video, and if not, the museum should know of
it, and be able to help you find it.
Good luck!
Tracey L. Westfall
Pine Hill Pottery
RD#2 Box 6AA
Harrisville, WV 26362
pinehill@ruralnet.org
www.pinehillpottery.com
Huske Christina on thu 14 sep 00
Been there - done that. I cann't find it anywhere. It has been suggested
that there was only the Master film and copies are not available. I would
like to believe that someone, somewhere had the forsight to tape it. I have
even asked if it could be reshown and have gotten no response.
-----Original Message-----
From: Anji Henderson [mailto:vual70@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 2:46 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: George Ohr
Hi Christina...
A good start would probably be
http://www.pbs.org/
You could e-mail them and ask...
Anji
--- Huske Christina wrote:
> I've been told of a PBS film shown several years ago
> about George Ohr.
> Does anyone know how I could to get a copy of the
> film?
> I would appreciate any help. Thanks.
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
CWilyums@AOL.COM on fri 15 sep 00
I live in Mississippi and had occassion to visit the PRM store Wednesday. The
documentary on George Orr was shown on PBS TV this past Sunday. I inquired if
the video was again available. The answer is no. The Orr family is contesting
copy rights to several of the photos shown and PBS has withdrawn the video as
a result. Same "ole, same 'ole, a question of who makes the money!
"Sad but true in Mississippi" C Williams
P.S. There is a book on George Orr that presents some of the same material.
You may be able to purchase the book at the George Orr museum web site, or at
least gather more info. The book was also on sale at NCECA last year.
Wendy Hays on sun 1 oct 00
For those of you in the San Francisco Bay Area: Mills College is showing some Ohr
from now through Oct 22. Hurry!
Huske Christina wrote:
> Been there - done that. I cann't find it anywhere. It has been suggested
> that there was only the Master film and copies are not available. I would
> like to believe that someone, somewhere had the forsight to tape it. I have
> even asked if it could be reshown and have gotten no response.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anji Henderson [mailto:vual70@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 2:46 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: George Ohr
>
> Hi Christina...
>
> A good start would probably be
>
> http://www.pbs.org/
>
> You could e-mail them and ask...
>
> Anji
>
> --- Huske Christina wrote:
> > I've been told of a PBS film shown several years ago
> > about George Ohr.
> > Does anyone know how I could to get a copy of the
> > film?
> > I would appreciate any help. Thanks.
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Wes Rolley on wed 30 jan 02
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At 12:35 AM 2/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I taught art appreciation for years. One of the key principles (which I
>expect both of you know) is that appreciating art need not have anything at
>all to do with whether or not you like the work. Likes and dislikes are one
>criteria for appreciating art, but that is a fairly limited context for
>appreciation. A much broader appreciation comes from imagining or examining
>the life of the artist, his/her motivation for creating the art and the
>message communicated by the work.
Vince,
While I agree that these broader considerations are necessary for
completely understanding any art, I find that the inner life of the artist,
their motivation, and their desire to communicate something truly
meaningful has become the justification for a lot of just plain BAD
art. Unfortunately, there seems to be a political correct attitude that
buys into this in the selection of public art. Not always, probably not
even most of the time, but often enough to turn attractive parks into
un-attractive public forums. One case in point, the "Aztec" monument in
downtown San Jose, CA..
Wes
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
wesley@rolley.com
(408)778-3024
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Joyce Lee on wed 30 jan 02
As I recall, my "Mad Potter of Biloxi" cost around $60.00 and was =
ordered from a ceramic supply house..... maybe Axner ... either that or =
from Steve
Branfman where I buy most of my books. It's worth every penny. The book =
has great non-hackneyed text, but the pictures of George's pots are =
worth the price.
What luscious glazes!! And innovative forms! He's definitely my hero. =
I'm related to Orr's (different spelling, of course) and have imagined =
that the Ohr
and the Orr families were one and the same ..... only the spelling =
changed. True. And only proves the adage that we don't change a nickels =
worth from the cradle to the grave. I had the same kind of daydreams as =
a child ... thought I'd put that behind me .... Mama Luce certainly =
reminded me regularly that I should ("if you don't quit that =
lollygagging, you're not going to amount to a hill of beans, child. =
Don't you know that you and I are the kind who'll have to do it ALL for =
ourselves?? And that means we have to Pay Attention.... Extra =
Attention.") no, guess Young Joyce is still with us ... here I am not =
only still "imagining" in vivid color .... but telling thousands of =
potters about my greatest lifelong "weakness.
George Ohr and Beatrice Wood ...... what a combo that would have been! =
Wouldn't have lasted 2 weeks but still..... such dynamism! I think =
maybe I'm most attracted to those of us who are at least a little .... =
hmmm..... well, crazy .... those who are willing to take a risk and to =
suffer the pains (and joys) of those who dare to be different. I =
definitely envy them. =20
Joyce
In the Mojave
Wes Rolley on thu 31 jan 02
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At 09:10 PM 2/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Wes -
>I am sure that you will agree that your above statement about BAD art is
>purely subjective, based on what you think is good or bad, and in no way
>relevant to whether the work is in fact good or bad. Neither you nor I (nor
>anyone except the test of time) can make such a generalized judgement. Art
>is a reflection of the time and place in which it was made, and in our own
>time and place we do not necessarily have the full awareness to be able to
>accurately judge aesthetic or conceptual worth in contemporary art.
No, Vince, I do NOT agree that the statement is PURELY subjective. While
there is a certain amount of subjectivity in all judgement, I am confident
enough in my judgement of art, its historical context and, importantly,
aesthetic considerations, to know when political correctness is used to
justify art that is poorly designed and poorly executed, art that nearly
incoherent in its communicative capabilities because there is no focus in
the design, balance (not necessarily symetric) in its visual context, but
which provided the artist with good therapy.
Imagine a student with no other knowledge of pottery. He came into one of
your classes and threw a lump of wet clay on the wheel. After staring at
the clay for a while, he stood up, jammed his fist into the center of the
lump, poured ketchup and mustard on it and insisted that you fire his
bowl. It is obviously art according to your definition and the fault is
ours because we do not understand the cultural and emotional background
that gave rise to this bowl.
My question to you is whether you would fire that piece or not? How would
you critique the work of this student / artist? Would it make a difference
if the work were accidently balanced in construction (or not)?
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
wesley@rolley.com
(408)778-3024
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Lee Love on fri 1 feb 02
I've always thought his pots were pretty ugly. But as Hamada says, --"The
best pots for me are the pots that I like." :^)
Lee Love In Mashiko Ikiru@kami.com
http://www.awanomachi-tcg.ed.jp/mashiko.html
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on fri 1 feb 02
Thank you, Lee. I always thought his pots were ugly too, but I admired his
ability to just not care what anyone thought. He just made what he thought
looked good to him.
I remember seeing my first George Ohr at an antique dealer's place in
Pennsylvania. He had invited some people to look at it, this was in the
very early 70's. He predicted that Ohr's things would be the hottest thing
going in about 20 years. Boy, was he right on. At the time he started
buying these things, you could purchase them for about $20-$60 depending on
how big the piece was. A bargain for these antique glass and pottery
dealers to stock up on and hold until the prices rose. Funny thing
was...these people couldn't care less what the things looked like, they just
saw dollar signs.
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Love [mailto:ikiru@KAMI.COM]
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 8:11 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: George Ohr
I've always thought his pots were pretty ugly. But as Hamada says,
--"The
best pots for me are the pots that I like." :^)
Lee Love In Mashiko Ikiru@kami.com
http://www.awanomachi-tcg.ed.jp/mashiko.html
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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vince pitelka on sat 2 feb 02
> Thank you, Lee. I always thought his pots were ugly too, but I admired his
> ability to just not care what anyone thought. He just made what he
thought
> looked good to him.
Lee and Sandy -
I don't know what ugly means in this context. He made things which were
energetic, viceral, sometimes awkward, sometimes graceful. He was
experimenting with glaze effects which had never been seen before, but today
look like special-effect lowfire glazes.
I taught art appreciation for years. One of the key principles (which I
expect both of you know) is that appreciating art need not have anything at
all to do with whether or not you like the work. Likes and dislikes are one
criteria for appreciating art, but that is a fairly limited context for
appreciation. A much broader appreciation comes from imagining or examining
the life of the artist, his/her motivation for creating the art and the
message communicated by the work. When you learn about the life and
behavior of George Ohr, you can't help but appreciate his work. Doesn't
mean you would want it in your house, but it means that the work represents
the man - who he was, what he accomplished, etc.
Just my own point of view about this -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
j.a.velez on sat 2 feb 02
Wes, Vince et al:
I am new to this group and do not have the exposure to the arts some of =
you have. I refrain from posting on issues that are not purely =
technical, but this one is interesting to me, so here I go.
I do not like George Ohrs pots either, nor do I like those majolica pots =
by Picasso. On the other hand I really like some of the pots I see on =
CM, like this month Kathryn Narrow's. I doubt that getting to know the =
pottter's character or values would change my like/dislike any. To me =
that is one of the attractions of pottery it sort of appeals to people =
in the most elementary way. It is visceral, there are no accompanying =
social messages. Some pots "speak" to me, some do not. I like the =
simplicity of that. Now understanding the techniques to achieve some =
result my enhance how I experience/perceive a piece.=20
I might not like Picasso's Guernica, but still might have to contend =
with the message. To fully appreciate that piece there is some =
background information I need, some intellectual effort is needed. That =
is different.=20
So, that is the point of view of a true layman in the arts.
Regards, Jose A. Velez
vince pitelka on sat 2 feb 02
> While I agree that these broader considerations are necessary for
> completely understanding any art, I find that the inner life of the
artist,
> their motivation, and their desire to communicate something truly
> meaningful has become the justification for a lot of just plain BAD
> art.
Wes -
I am sure that you will agree that your above statement about BAD art is
purely subjective, based on what you think is good or bad, and in no way
relevant to whether the work is in fact good or bad. Neither you nor I (nor
anyone except the test of time) can make such a generalized judgement. Art
is a reflection of the time and place in which it was made, and in our own
time and place we do not necessarily have the full awareness to be able to
accurately judge aesthetic or conceptual worth in contemporary art. The
best we can do is to acknowledge that while some of it is probably of little
lasting value, some of it is very important, and none of us really know for
sure which is which. We are best off if we try and learn about the work,
place ourselves in the artist's shoes, make our own judgements, but leave
open the possibility that perhaps we just do not understand the work. We
should not hold that against the artist, no matter what we think of the work
based on our own background and knowledge. People who talk loud and long
passing judgement about which art is good and which art is bad are just
self-righteous pricks. And yes, that does include most professional art
critics.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
vince pitelka on sat 2 feb 02
Jose said:
"I might not like Picasso's Guernica, but still might have to contend with
the message. To fully appreciate that piece there is some background
information I need, some intellectual effort is needed. That is different.
"
Jose -
Thanks for that post. But in a way, the statement above contradicts the
first part of your post. At first appearance you might not like Guernica,
but upon learning about the subject matter you develop a new appreciation of
what Picasso was trying to accomplish. That is precisely what I am saying.
Art appreciation has little to do with whether or not you like the work. So
why is the same thing not true with the work of George Ohr? Few people
understood his work in his own time, and it is apparent that lots of people
still do not understand it today. As I said before, when you learn a little
about George Ohr, about what an outrageous and innovative artist he was, the
work takes on entirely new meaning. The energy and spirit become viceral
expressions of the emergence of a truly American ceramic art.
At the time George Ohr was active (turn of the century - 19th to 20th) there
wasn't much ceramic art going on that was not derivative of European Art
Nouveau or older established traditions. George Ohr was fifty years ahead
of his time, and as such he is pretty damned important in the grand scheme
of American Ceramics. Pioneers like George Ohr, Merrit Oppehheim, Glen
Lukens, and others often received little critical acclaim in their own time,
but we need to give them a good look today, and figure out what they were
all about. It is pretty shallow to just dismiss their work as "ugly," as
several people have done.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Lee Love on sun 3 feb 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "vince pitelka"
> People who talk loud and long
> passing judgement about which art is good and which art is bad are just
> self-righteous pricks. And yes, that does include most professional art
> critics.
Fine judgment about other people's opinions Vince. No judgments about
"good" or "bad" art are allowed, heaven forbid. Relativity rules there. We
are not allowed to say the Emperor is not wearing any clothes. Only
judgments about other peoples opinions are allowed. Very, very interesting.
:^)
As much as folks like Garth Clark pop me off when they make the potter
and the artist oppose one & other, I respect his opinions about what he likes
and dislikes. What he says is "good" and "bad." He is interviewed in the
current Studio Potter & speaks about George Ohr in the article (he wrote the
book about Ohr.) Critics that I have great respect for, like Philip Rawson
and Robert Hughes, are very helpful to the thinking creative person. No need
to fear them or call them names.
A relativistic aesthetic is only good for lining the pockets of the art
and investment dealers. The history or the background of the maker may make
give the work a certain amount of "social" relevance, but it doesn't change the
quality of the work.
Here is a quote from Rosanjin that a friend (a pottery teacher) sent me
in a letter. My friend was talking about how we can't expect there to be a lot
of "great art" in any one time or place. Rosanjin was doing a critique of a
group of advanced student's pots at a university in American. He said, "Ah!
These look like VERY good pots." Long pause -- The students were very pleased
and flattered! Rosanjin added, "But they are not!"
Spare us the teachers that won't tell us when we are making crap.
--
Lee Love In Mashiko Ikiru@kami.com
"The best pots for me are the pots that I like." --Shoji Hamada (1894-1978)
http://www.awanomachi-tcg.ed.jp/mashiko.html
j.a.velez on sun 3 feb 02
Vince:
"George Ohr was fifty years ahead of his time, and as such he is pretty =
damned important in the grand scheme of American Ceramics. Pioneers =
like George Ohr, Merrit Oppehheim, Glen Lukens, and others often =
received little critical acclaim in their own time, but we need to give =
them a good look today, and figure out what they were all about. It is =
pretty shallow to just dismiss their work as "ugly," as several people =
have done."
I think it is obvious looking at Ohr's work that he was pushing the =
envelop and succeeded to some extent. So I might be able to admire him =
for that and still say "I do not like his pots." I guess what I am =
trying to say is that, in my estimation, some art has no social or =
intellectual message attached and is only appealing to your emotions. =
The artist is going for your "guts". The viewer reaction is visceral, =
he/she either likes or dislikes what is perceived. While other works =
contain messages that are so obvious that is impossible to fully =
appreciate without getting into that. It might be a better comparison =
if we discuss the same medium. I once saw a painting by Miro that =
consisted of a small blue dot in the middle of a large white canvas. =
That left me completely indifferent, did not stir a single emotion, nor =
did it raise my curiosity to go find out more about Miro and what he was =
trying to say. Now a painting that obviously depicts the horror of war, =
raises in me some curiosity to find out more about it. What conflict, =
was the artist involved, social injustices, etc., etc. I place pots in =
the first category. I either like or dislike them. End of discussion. =
I do not feel any obligation to find out more about the ones I dislike. =
Now, as an enthusiat of ceramics I should try to learn its history and =
Ohr's place in it. Still will not like his pots. =20
Again just a layman's opinion.
Regards, Jose A. Velez
James Bowen on sun 3 feb 02
I wonder how many people who dislike the Mad Potter's pots
have actually handled one. Those I have held are truly
amazing little vessels. When appreciated in the context of
his times, his responses to the stimuli available, and his
determination to be his own person all the while making a
living as a potter, for me makes the man and his work as
important as any we have had since.
Before passing judgment on his worth as an artist and
potter, you owe it to him and yourself to read the essay "
'No two alike'. The triumph of individuality" by Robert A
Ellison Jr. in the book The Mad potter of Biloxi. The Art
and Life of George Ohr. pp 65-88. Then go find some of his
pots to check out personally.
I would love for someone to show me how to make the foot he
made on his footed vessels.
Stay Centered
James Bowen
Boyero CO
jbowen43@yahoo.com
jbowen43@plains.net
H.M. Buchanan on sun 3 feb 02
The Ohr Museum ,when it is complete, will have a lovely big studio for
workshops. Maybe at one we could handle some of those "ugly" "wonderful"
pots. I think I'll sign up for membership just so I am sure to be on their
mailing list.
Judi Buchanan, Heidelberg, MS
becky schroeder on sun 3 feb 02
i have checked out the book on george ohr many times in the library and
really HATE his pots but listening to this discussion and others about good
art sometimes being very difficult and uncomfortable i decided to do
something that shocked me. i actually called up stephen in MA and ordered a
copy of it. i can't imagine why i did it. i'm usually too shallow and blond
to to appreciate the ugly but obviously you guys are creeping into my being
and opening me up.
becky schroeder
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
Marcia Selsor on sun 3 feb 02
Becky,
I think you'll enjoy this book. When reading it, remember this man was
way ahead of his time!
Also remember he was in the delta area, Biloxi, where the sedimentary
clay looks like it could do incredible things...at least he made it do
incredible things.
Best wishes,
marcia
becky schroeder wrote:
>
> i have checked out the book on george ohr many times in the library and
> really HATE his pots but listening to this discussion and others about good
> art sometimes being very difficult and uncomfortable i decided to do
> something that shocked me. i actually called up stephen in MA and ordered a
> copy of it. i can't imagine why i did it. i'm usually too shallow and blond
> to to appreciate the ugly but obviously you guys are creeping into my being
> and opening me up.
>
> becky schroeder
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2002.html
vince pitelka on sun 3 feb 02
Jose said:
"I place pots in the first category. I either like or dislike them. End of
discussion. I do not feel any obligation to find out more about the ones I
dislike. Now, as an enthusiat of ceramics I should try to learn its history
and Ohr's place in it. Still will not like his pots. "
Jose -
Thanks for that post. I think this is perhaps another case of theuse of
"like" or "dislike." Regardless of whether you are talking about Guernica
or a George Ohr pot, there are mulitple levels of interpretation and
understanding. I guess you can simplify the response to pots to such an
elemental level if you wish, but I think that is kind of sad. And I hope
this does not sound obnoxious or cocky, but I cannot for a minute believe
your last statement. After studying Ohr you might still not enjoy and
appreciate one of his pots the way you might enjoy and appreciate a fine
piece from a favorite contemporary potter, but you will certainly have much
more appreciation for who George Ohr was and what he tried to accomplish,
and his pots will become symbols of that. Each pot will be further evidence
of his life and accomplishments, and it will be impossible to say "I don't
like his pots." You may well say "That particular pot was not one of his
successful ones, and I don't really like it," but you will not be able to
dismiss his pots.
The above is of course completely hypothetical and conjecture on my part,
and implies absolutely no disrespect for you or your opinions. I am
enjoying this thread.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
vince pitelka on sun 3 feb 02
> No, Vince, I do NOT agree that the statement is PURELY subjective. While
> there is a certain amount of subjectivity in all judgement, I am confident
> enough in my judgement of art, its historical context and, importantly,
> aesthetic considerations, to know when political correctness is used to
> justify art that is poorly designed and poorly executed, art that nearly
> incoherent in its communicative capabilities because there is no focus in
> the design, balance (not necessarily symetric) in its visual context, but
> which provided the artist with good therapy.
Wes -
Yes, but given all of your knowledge and experience, it is still subjective.
My contention is that all of us have only our own knowledge and experience
to use in interpreting and evaluating art, and given the complexities of
human history and contemporary human society and behavior, we cannot hope to
know enough to really make any sort of qualified conclusion about whether a
work of art is good or bad. It is presumptious of us to do so. I do
believe that some critics become so expert on one particular genre of work
that they come closer than most, but they are rare.
> Imagine a student with no other knowledge of pottery. He came into one of
> your classes and threw a lump of wet clay on the wheel. After staring at
> the clay for a while, he stood up, jammed his fist into the center of the
> lump, poured ketchup and mustard on it and insisted that you fire his
> bowl. It is obviously art according to your definition and the fault is
> ours because we do not understand the cultural and emotional background
> that gave rise to this bowl.
Well, yes I suppose it could be considered art, but I would not give it much
credence unless I found that the student was very serious about this
particular direction, and could articulate intent. But where did I ever
talk about fault? I simply said we have a lot ot gain by learning learn
about context and background behind someone's work before we dismiss it.
> My question to you is whether you would fire that piece or not? How would
> you critique the work of this student / artist? Would it make a
difference
> if the work were accidently balanced in construction (or not)?
Would I fire it? If the student really wanted to fire it then yes, I
certainly would, partly because I have the luxury of adequate kiln space and
firing time to fire almost anything. How would I critique it? I would put
the student on the spot, expect her/him to explain what she/he was trying to
accomplish, and it would be pretty evident if her/his answer was BS. When I
critique work, I try to find out what the student was trying to accomplish,
and then evaluate whether or not they were successful in those terms. I try
to be very careful about judging whether work is aesthetically good or bad,
because that is such a can of worms, but I do not hesitate to point out if
the work is awkward, uncertain, poorly thrown, poorly finished, etc. That
could be judged as good or bad, but there are too many instances where the
work of one culture or age group has been viewed as poor art because of the
rigid aesthetic and stylistic parameters of another culture or age group. I
try to give people more credit than that unless they give me a reason not
to, such as when their work is careless and haphazard.
You mention balance, and it is important to say that there is no such thing
as a standard of correct balance. Some works of art and craft excell
because they are well-balanced, and some are especially dramatic and
effective because they are not. I know you know this, but it could be
inferred from your post that good art should be visually balanced, and that
is of course not true.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Philip Poburka on mon 4 feb 02
Dear Lee,
On what basis do we accept the provenance attributed by this 'Auction -
House' ?
Or...as to say, how do we know that these examples are the work of Geo.
Ohr ?
For one thing, one should more readily fake such 'forms' as these, than the
'difficult'
ones, were one TO do so, or were one to have them 'done', and in that
eventuality their 'strength' would lie
in the signature, I would suppose, and not 'With' the 'form'...and an
'Auction House' may or may not see fit to
scruitinize them too closely, or necessarily be disposed or competent to do
so...
Maybe these, if they are 'Ohr' (and I think they are not...) could have been
made in some sad 'last' days as he were enfeebled and dieing, and were
somehow retained?
Who knows...
But these say nothing of his 'work'...whatever they may be.
I would say they seem spurious to me, and their dispiritedness alone makes
them
highly 'suspect'.
Phil
Las Vegas...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: George Ohr
> Here are a couple of photos of Ohr's work, for those who are unfamiliar of
the
> work of the self proclaimed "Unequaled! Unrivaled! Undisputed! Greatest
Art
> Potter on
> the earth.":
>
>
> http://www.smithandjonesauctions.com/lot202.jpg
>
>
> I sort of like this folksy log cabin bottle below. Could of been
made
> during an intro handbuilding class:
>
> http://www.smithandjonesauctions.com/lot204.jpg
>
> Most photos I found on the web were from auction sites.
>
> --
> Lee In Mashiko Ikiru@kami.com
>
> "It is not from ourselves that we learn to be better than we are.
" -Wendell
> Berry-
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Tommy Humphries on mon 4 feb 02
http://www.auctionwatch.com/awdaily/collectors/mostwanted/ohr/index.html
http://www.prices4antiques.com/itemsummary/46307.htm
http://www.pricesforart.com/itemsummary/46272.htm
http://www.artauctionprices.com/itemsummary/46303.htm
http://www.pricesatauction.com/itemsummary/60945.htm
http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/19550.htm
These links show a wide range of ohr's work. The first link has a fine
slide show presentation that shows a few of his forms and glazes.
The extremely ugly pot that Lee chose to show appears to be one that
"survived" a fire that destroyed many of Ohr's pots that were in a private
collection. Most of these pots had the glaze literally burned off of them.
The cabin I have no clue about, as I have never seen its like on any Ohr
site. GEO obviously delved into a wide range of forms...whatever he fancied
at the time is what he made.
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: George Ohr
> Here are a couple of photos of Ohr's work, for those who are unfamiliar of
the
> work of the self proclaimed "Unequaled! Unrivaled! Undisputed! Greatest
Art
> Potter on
> the earth.":
>
>
> http://www.smithandjonesauctions.com/lot202.jpg
>
>
> I sort of like this folksy log cabin bottle below. Could of been
made
> during an intro handbuilding class:
>
> http://www.smithandjonesauctions.com/lot204.jpg
>
> Most photos I found on the web were from auction sites.
>
> --
> Lee In Mashiko Ikiru@kami.com
>
Marcia Selsor on mon 4 feb 02
Dear Bill,
Yes, but doesn't the Biloxi river as well as other drain into the gulf
near Biloxi? In "GEO"
time they all recieved washes of sedimenatry clay and can probably be
termed as in a delta.
Those pots were made with an incredibly plastic clay body, a highly
sedimentary clay.
They look so plastic to me I can almost see them as wet pots bending and wrinkling.
Best wishes,
marcia
"W. McGown" wrote:
>
> Marcia,
>
> Great comments but one small factual error. Ohr lived on the
> Mississippi Gulf Coast; not in the delta region. Actually his home was
> only about eight miles from where I am writing this.
>
> Take care and have a great day..
>
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marcia Selsor
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 6:20 PM
> Subject: Re: George Ohr
>
> > Becky,
> > I think you'll enjoy this book. When reading it, remember this man was
> > way ahead of his time!
> > Also remember he was in the delta area, Biloxi, where the sedimentary
> > clay looks like it could do incredible things...at least he made it do
> > incredible things.
> > Best wishes,
> > marcia
> >
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2002.html
Craig Clark on tue 5 feb 02
Tommy, thanx for the linx (pun intended). Are you going to be able to
make it to the workshop this weekend? Contact me off list and leave a phone
number. I'll call you this evening.
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, Texas 77008
mudman@hal-pc.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Humphries"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: George Ohr
> http://www.auctionwatch.com/awdaily/collectors/mostwanted/ohr/index.html
> http://www.prices4antiques.com/itemsummary/46307.htm
> http://www.pricesforart.com/itemsummary/46272.htm
> http://www.artauctionprices.com/itemsummary/46303.htm
> http://www.pricesatauction.com/itemsummary/60945.htm
> http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/19550.htm
>
> These links show a wide range of ohr's work. The first link has a fine
> slide show presentation that shows a few of his forms and glazes.
>
> The extremely ugly pot that Lee chose to show appears to be one that
> "survived" a fire that destroyed many of Ohr's pots that were in a private
> collection. Most of these pots had the glaze literally burned off of
them.
> The cabin I have no clue about, as I have never seen its like on any Ohr
> site. GEO obviously delved into a wide range of forms...whatever he
fancied
> at the time is what he made.
>
> Tommy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Love"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 3:42 PM
> Subject: Re: George Ohr
>
>
> > Here are a couple of photos of Ohr's work, for those who are unfamiliar
of
> the
> > work of the self proclaimed "Unequaled! Unrivaled! Undisputed! Greatest
> Art
> > Potter on
> > the earth.":
> >
> >
> > http://www.smithandjonesauctions.com/lot202.jpg
> >
> >
> > I sort of like this folksy log cabin bottle below. Could of been
> made
> > during an intro handbuilding class:
> >
> > http://www.smithandjonesauctions.com/lot204.jpg
> >
> > Most photos I found on the web were from auction sites.
> >
> > --
> > Lee In Mashiko Ikiru@kami.com
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Lee Love on tue 5 feb 02
Here are a couple of photos of Ohr's work, for those who are unfamiliar of the
work of the self proclaimed "Unequaled! Unrivaled! Undisputed! Greatest Art
Potter on
the earth.":
http://www.smithandjonesauctions.com/lot202.jpg
I sort of like this folksy log cabin bottle below. Could of been made
during an intro handbuilding class:
http://www.smithandjonesauctions.com/lot204.jpg
Most photos I found on the web were from auction sites.
--
Lee In Mashiko Ikiru@kami.com
"It is not from ourselves that we learn to be better than we are. " -Wendell
Berry-
Tommy Humphries on tue 5 feb 02
When GEO packed in his pottin, his whole shop full of pots was put into
storage...everything from greenware to finished pots...over 10,000 pots in
fact. Everything was included even his tinkerings, and "clay doodles"
When this cache was discovered and made public in the 70's the finished pots
were immediately liquidated, and the bisque and greenware? well, who knows
what happened to them. Many of these unfinished pieces are now showing up
glazed and fired, as "lost ohr's" As well as many out and out fakes...his
style was erratic enough that a good potter could fake an Ohr in a
heartbeat.
This is what is going to happen to Rush (Artimator)...He is going to kick
the bucket one of these days and Gloria is going to get rich...Nobody
believes it when an artist proclaims himself to be the best, at least not
while he is alive that is :^)
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Poburka"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 1:39 AM
Subject: Re: George Ohr
> Dear Lee,
>
> On what basis do we accept the provenance attributed by this 'Auction -
> House' ?
>
> Or...as to say, how do we know that these examples are the work of Geo.
> Ohr ?
>
> For one thing, one should more readily fake such 'forms' as these, than
the
> 'difficult'
> ones, were one TO do so, or were one to have them 'done', and in that
> eventuality their 'strength' would lie
> in the signature, I would suppose, and not 'With' the 'form'...and an
> 'Auction House' may or may not see fit to
> scruitinize them too closely, or necessarily be disposed or competent to
do
> so...
>
> Maybe these, if they are 'Ohr' (and I think they are not...) could have
been
> made in some sad 'last' days as he were enfeebled and dieing, and were
> somehow retained?
>
> Who knows...
>
> But these say nothing of his 'work'...whatever they may be.
>
> I would say they seem spurious to me, and their dispiritedness alone makes
> them
> highly 'suspect'.
>
> Phil
> Las Vegas...
>
Lee Love on wed 6 feb 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Poburka"
>
> On what basis do we accept the provenance attributed by this 'Auction -
> House' ?
Yes. I agree. If you noticed, all of Tommy's links were from auction
houses too. I am sure Garth Clark has a much better eye. That pot on the
back of his book reminds me of both Tang (the glazes) and art deco. In an old
condo we used to clean, there was an interesting large jar with sprigged
decoration, probably Italitan, that reminds me of this Ohr pot.
The images I found were at Google, as I mentioned previously, using
their image search engine. You can look for yourself:
http://images.google.com/images?q=%22george+ohr%22&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wi
I also used Alta Vista's image search engine and only found one pot (the black
puckered pot), and also one of those goofy portraits. You can see here:
http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?q=%22george+ohr%22&ipht=1&igrph=1&ibb=1&i
clr=1&ibw=1&mmW=1&micat=1&imgset=1&stype=simage&pg=q
Or go to Alta Vista, select Image and enter "George Ohr"
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan Ikiru@kami.com
"We can only wait here, where we are in the world, obedient to its processes,
patient in its taking away, faithful to its returns. And as much as we may
know, and all that we deserve of earthly paradise will come to us."
Wendell Berry , Full Quote: http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~ikiru/berry.html
Judi Buchanan on sun 11 jan 04
Those of you who will be in Mobile, Alabama for the Clay Conference,
should think of a side trip to the George Ohr Museum in Biloxi just 60
miles away. It's not yet in the awesome facility it will have in a
couple of years but the collection should not be missed by anyone
seeking inspiration or wondering just how far clay can be pushed on the
wheel.
Judi Buchanan,Flutter-by Pottery
Chris Rupp on mon 12 jan 04
My two cents. They can't take it away, regaurdless of any situation. All
lawyers, including theirs, are full of sh**. They are just trying to get it
from you by use of intimidation. If they use it, I would sure as sh** go
after them and maybe make the settlement a trade for Ohr pots. (At least
they make nice door stops.)
I think you have a win win trademark situation.
Chris
Sunny Santa Barbara
>From: Patricia Harden
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: George Ohr...as Paul Soldner said, "...Ohr was a
>man a hundered years ahead of his time."
>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:30:24 -0500
>
>Speaking of the George Ohr museum, a pottery group I belong to does shows
>togethers and years ago we registered our trademark - Mud Daubers. Last
>year, the Ohr museum's lawyer informed us they were using our trademark and
>we should give it up to them because they were going to continue using it.
>Now the museum is planning to contact the trademark registry office and
>request that the name be taken away from us because they want to use it.
>Their lawyer has been intimidating and ugly. If a board member had
>contacted us for permission "art lover to art lover" I don't think there
>would have been any problem but this lawyer is a real #@$%!. Any
>suggestion? Patricia Harden
_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN.
http://wine.msn.com/
John Rodgers on thu 15 jan 04
Judi,
Absolutely get yourself a lawyer and get him to clarify to you 1) your
rights and 2) where you stand. And these two ARE NOT the same. Then, if
your position is strong, have him write a demand letter to all other
parties to cease and desist using the trademark. Next turn around and
offer some sort of compromise. Make youself into the gal in the white
hat. You will gain stature in the whole scenario, so an equitable
solution may be found that makes everybody happy, and may even put money
in your pocket or garner favors that can be collected on in the future.
Once you have established yourself with the white hat, if someone still
wants to be a butt, have your attorney sue everybody in sight. But
taking the high road always puts you in a superior position.
One thing....... a clear, concise, non-threatening letter with
historical data, showing reasonable consideration for all parties goes a
very long way towards resolution of disputes. I once brought the State
of Alaska to its knees and had the Alaska State Attorney General
calling me personally to resolve a dispute, all because my letter was
VERY carefully crafted. No threats, historically correct, and to the
point. I had a check in my hand in three days after that conversation. I
never had to go to court, or even hire a lawyer.
Know your rights, know where you stand, and excercise your responsibilities.
Best of luck,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Judi Buchanan wrote:
>Those of you who will be in Mobile, Alabama for the Clay Conference,
>should think of a side trip to the George Ohr Museum in Biloxi just 60
>miles away. It's not yet in the awesome facility it will have in a
>couple of years but the collection should not be missed by anyone
>seeking inspiration or wondering just how far clay can be pushed on the
>wheel.
>
>Judi Buchanan,Flutter-by Pottery
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Tig Dupre on fri 13 feb 04
Mudbuds,
For those who like the Art Nouveau, Jugendstil, Arts and Crafts Movement, or the early periods of the arts renaissance in the US, the current (WINTER/SPRING 2004) issue of "Style 1900" magazine has several articles of interest. The Grove Park Inn, in Asheville, North Carolina has a feature article, as does the work of George Ohr.
There is also an article about Art Accardi, an industrial ceramics designer, and founder of the Arts and Clay Company in Woodstock, New York. Art and his collaborator Steve Frederick worked on recreating the "Grueby" look, complete with replication of Grueby signature glazes.
The magazine, "Style 1900" is edited by Davis Rago, noted afficianado of the Arts and Crafts Movement in America. This particular issue has lots of inspiration for the Arts and Crafts devotee.
The web site for folks who do not have acccess to the magazine is:
http://www.style1900.com
"Style 1900" is usually available at Borders, and Barnes and Noble bookstores in the US. Sorry, but I cannot tell you where to find the magazine outside the United States except by subscription.
Just thought you'd like to know...
Tig
in Port Orchard, WA, where Spring keeps trying to bud out...
Billie Mitchell on fri 2 sep 05
i have been watching the news very carefully on this subject. i have some work there so i am familar with the area somewhat. the building is just a few blocks down from one of the casinos. ( the beau rivage) the pics that i have seen looks like the chance that the building made it is slim.. i have no idea about the new building that they were building and was due to open next yr. i have sent an email to them in case someone is able to check the email. i am so worried about the people that i know there and live in the area. anything information that i find out about potters in that area or new orleans i will be sure to post as soon as i can get information.
billie mitchell
livingspiritpottery@comcast.net
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