klauzer jessica a on mon 12 apr 99
Okay, so here's my project:
create a kiln for myself employing bio-diesel as the fuel source. For
those of you unfamiliar with bio-diesel, it is a fuel made using a mixture
of vegetable oil (preferably waste oil from the fry machine at McDonalds
and such) and methanol. It is useable in anything that can burn diesel.
The first idea was to power an electric kiln using a diesel generator, but
wouldn't it be cool to create a flame with the stuff? Diesel has to be
under high pressure to ignite, which makes storing it extremely safe in
comparison to other fuels I am familiar with. The bio-diesel costs about
50c per gallon including everything you need to make it and store it.
The plan so far is to use a pump from a diesel car to create the pressure
needed to ignite the fuel. Perhaps an electric zapper to provide the
spark. Does this sound like a disaster in the making or could it be
feasible?
If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please do not hesitate to ramble on . .
.
Jessica in Boulder, Colorado
. . . of course coming up with environmentally conscious, proactive, and
politically correct ways of burning shit (pardon my potty mouth)
Marcia Selsor on tue 13 apr 99
dear Jessica,
Check out the burner idea written by Joe Mannino and me in 1973. It is in the
Studio Potter book page 156 or thereabouts.
It uses an overhauled domestic oil fuirnace burner with three nozzles instead
of one. These burners come with a pump and run at 100 lbs pressure. The
nozzles spray at various predetermined angles and at so many .xx gallons an
hour to determione the BTU output. By using three nozzles and indiviual valves
the BTU output can be altered in combination or alone with the say .5 gallons
an hour.
Marcia in Montana
klauzer jessica a wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> Okay, so here's my project:
>
> create a kiln for myself employing bio-diesel as the fuel source. For
> those of you unfamiliar with bio-diesel, it is a fuel made using a mixture
> of vegetable oil (preferably waste oil from the fry machine at McDonalds
> and such) and methanol. It is useable in anything that can burn diesel.
> The first idea was to power an electric kiln using a diesel generator, but
> wouldn't it be cool to create a flame with the stuff? Diesel has to be
> under high pressure to ignite, which makes storing it extremely safe in
> comparison to other fuels I am familiar with. The bio-diesel costs about
> 50c per gallon including everything you need to make it and store it.
>
> The plan so far is to use a pump from a diesel car to create the pressure
> needed to ignite the fuel. Perhaps an electric zapper to provide the
> spark. Does this sound like a disaster in the making or could it be
> feasible?
>
> If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please do not hesitate to ramble on . .
> .
>
> Jessica in Boulder, Colorado
> . . . of course coming up with environmentally conscious, proactive, and
> politically correct ways of burning shit (pardon my potty mouth)
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/spain99.html
Jeff Seefeldt on tue 13 apr 99
On a diesel engine it's not the pump creating the pressure, all it does is
deliver fuel (along with the injection system) to the cylinder. Pressure is
created by the piston rising up into the cylinder. The fuel / air mix
explodes under the pressure alone, not as the result of a spark, there are not
spark plugs in diesel engines. Some have glow plugs to help the process get
started, but many do not.
We (potters) want heat, not power so I dont' see that you would need to put
the fuel under pressure, it will burn just fine, and produce plenty of heat.
Hot Air balloons use a device called a preheater that vaporizes the LP gas
before being ignited, if you want heat quick, make something similar to this.
jeff,
potter (wheel-thrown / truly handmade) and grandson of the best diesel
mechanic in ILLINOIS.
ps,, fuel oil that is burned in oil furnaces is the same stuff as diesel, just
without the colorants that are added to diesel so that the tax boys can tell
if a truck is avoiding paying fuel tax....you may want to talk to a local
heating contractor and get a pump out of a junk furnace, it would be much
cheaper and easier to hook up. If you go with a car / truck pump, you are
going to need to run it off a battery, it will be 12 / 24 volt direct current.
klauzer jessica a wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> Okay, so here's my project:
>
> create a kiln for myself employing bio-diesel as the fuel source. For
> those of you unfamiliar with bio-diesel, it is a fuel made using a mixture
> of vegetable oil (preferably waste oil from the fry machine at McDonalds
> and such) and methanol. It is useable in anything that can burn diesel.
> The first idea was to power an electric kiln using a diesel generator, but
> wouldn't it be cool to create a flame with the stuff? Diesel has to be
> under high pressure to ignite, which makes storing it extremely safe in
> comparison to other fuels I am familiar with. The bio-diesel costs about
> 50c per gallon including everything you need to make it and store it.
>
> The plan so far is to use a pump from a diesel car to create the pressure
> needed to ignite the fuel. Perhaps an electric zapper to provide the
> spark. Does this sound like a disaster in the making or could it be
> feasible?
>
> If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please do not hesitate to ramble on . .
> .
>
> Jessica in Boulder, Colorado
> . . . of course coming up with environmentally conscious, proactive, and
> politically correct ways of burning shit (pardon my potty mouth)
Stephen Grimmer on tue 13 apr 99
Jessica,
Perhaps you can find a small, used oil burner from a furnace. They look
like big versions of forced-air gas burners and have the high pressure pump,
the blower, and the ignition all built in. I got one at a flea market for 35
bucks in Mass. and it's rated for 1.1 million Btu/hr. One big problem is
that these burners don't have much of a turn-down capacity, which is to say
they are either off or full-throttle. Some burners have 3 different-sized
jets built in for different combinations of fuel consumption, but still, you
start at 30% or so. They also put out a long flame, so maybe you want to
design a kiln with a separate like the one in Leach's A Potter's Book. You
could start things out with a wood fire or gas, and then switch over to the
Big Bertha for the main part of the firing. Wow, the mind boggles...
mmmm, french fries...
steve grimmer
marion illinois
----------
>From: klauzer jessica a
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: BIO-DIESEL KILN
>Date: Mon, Apr 12, 1999, 4:15 PM
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>Okay, so here's my project:
>
>create a kiln for myself employing bio-diesel as the fuel source. For
>those of you unfamiliar with bio-diesel, it is a fuel made using a mixture
>of vegetable oil (preferably waste oil from the fry machine at McDonalds
>and such) and methanol. It is useable in anything that can burn diesel.
>The first idea was to power an electric kiln using a diesel generator, but
>wouldn't it be cool to create a flame with the stuff? Diesel has to be
>under high pressure to ignite, which makes storing it extremely safe in
>comparison to other fuels I am familiar with. The bio-diesel costs about
>50c per gallon including everything you need to make it and store it.
>
>The plan so far is to use a pump from a diesel car to create the pressure
>needed to ignite the fuel. Perhaps an electric zapper to provide the
>spark. Does this sound like a disaster in the making or could it be
>feasible?
>
>If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please do not hesitate to ramble on . .
>.
>
>
>Jessica in Boulder, Colorado
>. . . of course coming up with environmentally conscious, proactive, and
>politically correct ways of burning shit (pardon my potty mouth)
>
Bill Aycock on tue 13 apr 99
There is a lot of confusion here. First- the ignition of "Diesel" fuel
does NOT require high pressure. The Diesel cycle, used in the engines of
that name, does use that means to heat the oil, but the same oil can be
used as a heating fuel with no pressure at all.
The oil commonly given that name, is harder to burn that more volatile
fuels, like gasoline , alcohol, or ether, but only requires a way to
vaporize it, to work. No pressure is needed. That happens to be the way it
is ignited in engines using the Diesel cycle, but burning it in a kiln does
not require pressure. In a kiln, the easy way is to preheat the oil, and
introduce it into a place where some oil is already burning.
The project sounds interesting, but be warned that there will be unexpected
pitfalls. - One is the odor to be expected when the (usually rancid)
reclaimed oil is burned. Another is the fact that a lot of this oil has
foriegn particles ( that can clog valves) in it. Expect to need filtration.
Recycling is admirable, but $0.50 sounds pretty high, when you are not
including taxes, which are about half the cost of common Diesel fuel oil.
Good luck
Bill.
At 05:15 PM 04/12/1999 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>Okay, so here's my project:
>
>create a kiln for myself employing bio-diesel as the fuel source. For
>those of you unfamiliar with bio-diesel, it is a fuel made using a mixture
>of vegetable oil (preferably waste oil from the fry machine at McDonalds
>and such) and methanol. It is useable in anything that can burn diesel.
>The first idea was to power an electric kiln using a diesel generator, but
>wouldn't it be cool to create a flame with the stuff? Diesel has to be
>under high pressure to ignite, which makes storing it extremely safe in
>comparison to other fuels I am familiar with. The bio-diesel costs about
>50c per gallon including everything you need to make it and store it.
>
>The plan so far is to use a pump from a diesel car to create the pressure
>needed to ignite the fuel. Perhaps an electric zapper to provide the
>spark. Does this sound like a disaster in the making or could it be
>feasible?
>
>If anyone has any brilliant ideas, please do not hesitate to ramble on . .
>.
>
>
>Jessica in Boulder, Colorado
>. . . of course coming up with environmentally conscious, proactive, and
>politically correct ways of burning shit (pardon my potty mouth)
>
>
-
Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill
Woodville, Alabama, US 35776
(in the N.E. corner of the State)
W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr
baycock@HiWAAY.net
Vince Pitelka on tue 13 apr 99
>The plan so far is to use a pump from a diesel car to create the pressure
>needed to ignite the fuel. Perhaps an electric zapper to provide the
>spark. Does this sound like a disaster in the making or could it be
>feasible?
>Jessica in Boulder, Colorado
Jessica -
I hope you follow through with this, but several things are a bit awry in
the above scenario. First, the pressure required to ignite diesel refers to
the combustion in a diesel engine, and the pressure is supplied by the very
high compression ratio within the cylinders. The diesel fuel-injection pump
does produce very high pressure in order to atomize the diesel thoroughly
and inject it into the cylinder at the right moment.
If you want to burn this stuff, why not use a normal atomizing oil burner?
They are designed to burn fuel oil, which is just diesel. Get one from a
large home furnace or a small industrial heating boiler. It will have a
single motor, with a snailshell blower, and a high-pressure oil pump off the
end of the shaft beyond the blower. Normally it will have a spark-ignition
coil as well. When these things are properly tuned up, they work fantastic,
and produce extremely high BTUs. Keep in mind that they produce a very hot
long flame, and you may need a good-sized firebox to keep from scorching
your wares. A popular design for this kind of oil-burner is the
double-cross-draft, where the burner is directed into a firebox under the
kiln floor. At the far side of the kiln, their is an opening up into the
ware chamber, and the exhaust flue is on the same side of the kiln as the
firebox opening(s). The flame passes through the firebox under the floor,
and up the far wall, back across the ware chamber to the flue and chimney.
If you want to go the low-budget route, you might consider the old-fashioned
drip-oil combustion system, where the oil simply drips onto metal or
refractory plates in the burner ports. When cool, combustion is very
sluggish, but when the plates heat up, it really supercharges the oil
combustion. This system requires very strong chimney draft and/or an
accessory blower injecting air into the burner ports. Some people have used
small propane burners to start off the firing, and then change over to the
oil-drip when there is some heat present in the fireboxes.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
John K Dellow on tue 13 apr 99
A more practical approach would be to use gas to red heat & then switch
to " the jet burners " described in Harry Davis`s " the potters
alternative ", chapter 19 Kilns.
John Dellow "the flower pot man"
ICQ : #2193986 {jacka}
E-mail : dellowjk@kewl.com.au
25 Hugh Guinea Ct, Worongary Q 4213
Ph:+61-7-55302875 Fax:+61-7-55253585
Home Page http://www.welcome.to/jkdellow
Fay & Ralph Loewenthal on tue 13 apr 99
Jessica, I had some customers who were using old
automotive engine oil, which they picked up at the
service stations for nothing. They found that they
had to drop the idea because they were getting
dirty marks, which I presumed was carbon, all over
their pots. Another potter I know has 190 cubic
foot parafin fired kiln. It uses 200 litres a firing, and
is a very clean fuel, so no problems there. Hope
this helps Ralph in PE SA.
CNW on wed 14 apr 99
Jessica- if bio-diesel is the same as regular diesel in how it burns you
should be able to use it like the oil-fired furnaces (which is actually
diesel),. One of the kiln books has an example of how to set it up. It's not
in Nils book but the other one, I think. vaguely remember something about
both a pressure nozzle and a drip thingie. (Gawd was that technical) I'll
check on it and talk with my Dad,he retired from inventing furnaces to
process silicon. He had some mad plan about it.
Celia-having a really sad night in NC
Bruce Girrell on wed 14 apr 99
Jessica,
Sounds like you might want to investigate some variation of an oil drip
burner. Fred Olsen's kiln book discusses them. One potter we visited in New
Zealand uses a vacuum cleaner as a blower with oil being fed through a small
tube into the air flow for his kiln. Beautiful example of low-tech and
recycle/reuse.
You won't need any pressure - you don't want it to explode; you want it to
burn.
Bruce "always willing to express an opinion" Girrell
Gavin Stairs on wed 14 apr 99
At 07:42 AM 4/13/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>On a diesel engine it's not the pump creating the pressure, all it does is
>deliver fuel (along with the injection system) to the cylinder. Pressure is
>created by the piston rising up into the cylinder. The fuel / air mix
>explodes under the pressure alone, not as the result of a spark, there are
not
>spark plugs in diesel engines. Some have glow plugs to help the process get
>started, but many do not.
>
>We (potters) want heat, not power so I dont' see that you would need to put
>the fuel under pressure, it will burn just fine, and produce plenty of heat.
This is not quite correct. The pump in an oil burner is there to drive the
oil through an atomizer orifice. Otherwise, the oil burns incompletely if
it ignites at all. The alternative in burning oil, suitable for heavy
oils, is a vaporizing plate such as you find in cascade or waterfall
burners. These are harder to ignite. The atomized oil can be ignited with
an arc igniter similar to that used in a gas burner. Atomized oil is a
mist of small droplets and oil vapor.
The same thing, more or less, happens in a fuel injection or diesel engine.
The pressurized oil is sprayed into the cylinder. It is at or below
atmospheric pressure at the bottom of the stroke, all the oil pressure
having been dissipated in the orifice. The compression stroke of the
engine then compresses the oil vapor and air mixture, which also heats it
to the ignition point in a diesel engine.
There are many types of oil produced for various fuels. They differ in
many subtleties as well as in the range of molecular weights (the
fractions) of petroleum contained. Stove and furnace oils are similar to
diesel oil, but not the same. However, diesel fuels do carry extra road
taxes, and are generally more expensive than other fuel oils. If you're
using a furnace burner, try furnace oil.
If you are using a vaporizing burner, such as is found in many camp stoves,
the fuel must be preheated, as in an old fashioned blow torch, so that it
exits the orifice as a vapor. There is usually a loop of fuel line which
passes through the flame before reaching the orifice. This kind of burner
needs a slight pressure, similar to the pressure in a gas line, which can
be produced by the head of the fuel tank, or by a small pump. In a camp
stove or a blow torch, there is an air pump which is used to pressurize the
fuel tank for this purpose. This kind of burner is mostly useful with
light fuel oils, like kerosine and gasoline, as heavy fuels may carbonize.
Gavin
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