Heidi Haugen on mon 12 apr 99
After following the kiln crisis thread with much interest, have been
paying closer attention to make sure all is well. Maybe I willed it to
happen with all my newfound concerns but much to my horror, my Skutt
failed to shut off at ^010 yesterday and I arrived home at 9pm to find
her still burning after 14 hours on high instead of the usual 3--YIKES!
I knew we shouldn't leave, please hold all laughter and shocked sighs
about leaving the house with the kiln still on- lesson learned!!
Anyway, I have questions regarding my ware and potential kiln damage.
1. Since I don't have a pyrometer, any guesses as to the max temp after
that period of time?
My kiln is a Skutt 181, with a max of cone 6. I personally have never
taken it over 010 as I only use it to bisque.
2. How can I tell if the elements are damaged? (obviously am no kiln
guru)
3. The 010 cone has melted into a lovely blob on my prongs although
the prong that sits on top of the cone still moves freely (after a bit
of tugging). Tried to clean it off with a steel brush but to no avail-
can't remove any of the prongs either.
4. Can my ware still be glazed? I use ^10 stoneware, I assume it's
been fired to cone 6- it looks much different that normal bisque ware
but it seems like the glaze should still adhere o.k.
5. To test my kiln- should I just fire her up empty with an 010 cone or
is it going to get all stuck to the nasty blob that the last one left?
6. Theories as to why it didn't shut off? The prong did not get hung
up on a stilt or ware, nothing was within 1.5 inches of it. Also,
doesn't seem that the kiln has been fired enought to get the buildup
that was addressed earlier this week that would cause the prongs to
stick.
Looking forward to your insights and answers-it is an experience with
many lessons to teach me and I want to take it for all it's worth:)
Heidi in sunny western Montana.
Kelly Averill Savino on thu 25 may 00
Tonight I test fired my big new evenheat kiln, I feel like a kid with a shiny new car...
the question is what to do with my hodgepodge of hand me downs and old timers. I have a square kiln made by a long-gone local guy, just brick with metal bands, a yard square with 3 (formerly 4) switches. (The element was not replaceable so the kiln got "shortened" by one stage by using a hacksaw to remove a switch from the box..) It would still low fire if I hadn't changed the electrical outlet for the big new evenheat. Is there a reason to keep it? If not, would anybody buy/barter for such a thing? What would it be worth? SHould I bury it and use it to pit fire? Any reason to keep the bricks left over from the broken first stage? Could I somehow use it to try soda/salt or other electric kiln no-nos?
Then, a hobbyist potter gave me a medium sized round kiln, another old timer. It had belonged to a school, then been donated to a nursing home before she got it; she had an electrician rewire it and put in new elements but frankly, it's pretty derelict looking and I was afraid to try it. (she never fired it and isn't sure it works.) Trying it out would involve (again) putting an outlet in with the right configuration, something I am not driven to do with this big shiny evenheat blinking away at me. If it worked, what would it be worth if I sold it? Should I keep it? I have a 10 year old little duncan for small stuff (how long do they live?) but would hate to get rid of "extra" kilns and then need one.
Is there any reason my new kiln can't sit on a platform of cinder blocks (turned on end, holes upward) instead of the metal leg supports? The floor underneath is concrete.
One more: can I use ordinary old bricks from a knocked down chimney to make a semi-permanent pit-firing spot? Or do I need refractory bricks?
thanks for your patience... kelly
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Mary Meyers on fri 3 mar 06
HELP!! I have an old kiln. Paragon model LT.3 .I bought it used =
(it was nine years old). I have used it for five years no problems. =
Obviously I need a new Kiln.
This will be my last kiln and I would like to hear from the group about =
such things as front load vs. top load. 2.5 in vs. 3 inch brick. Plus =
when I do purchase new I would like to convert my old kiln into butane =
for additional applications. I have no natural gas.
Thanks for any advice.
Thanks for any help from anyone,
Mary Meyers
mary k meyers
pottery _lady@sbcglobal.net
254-765-3813
William & Susan Schran User on tue 7 mar 06
On 3/3/06 1:57 PM, "Mary Meyers" wrote:
> This will be my last kiln and I would like to hear from the group about such
> things as front load vs. top load. 2.5 in vs. 3 inch brick. Plus when I do
> purchase new I would like to convert my old kiln into butane for additional
> applications. I have no natural gas.
Take a look at one of the latest ceramics publications to get the web
addresses of the major kiln manufacturers. Check their sites. Each have
information about their kilns and what they have to offer.
You have to decide what your budget is, how big of a kiln you want,
electrical requirements of the kiln and what you have available or are
willing to spend to upgrade, how high you'll be firing, etc, etc.
I am partial to L&L kilns - have one at home and seven at school.
Here's their site on "how to select a kiln",
http://www.hotkilns.com/buy-kiln.html
I would encourage you to look at other manufacturer's kilns and simply ask
lots of questions.
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
Dick & Mary Walker on tue 7 mar 06
You have heard from at least one person who suggests you compare several br=
ands. I would suggest the same, and hear is a few accolades for Scutt. We=
fired five skutt kilns in our studio in Arizona that I was responsible for=
and that was with 180 users firing everything from china paintings to cone=
5 stoneware. Needless to say the kilns operated almost everyday. To be m=
ore precise each kiln fired an average of 305 times per calendar year. In =
the four years that I either directed the studio or was responsible for mai=
ntanance and firing of the kilns, we replaced the coils once and the thermo=
couples on each three times or about once a year. That I believe is an exc=
ellent record. When I left Arizona and set up my own studio in Oregon, the=
first purchase was a skutt 1227. Unfortunately, my kiln, and, I believe t=
hree others on the East Coast have had a similar problem, elements burning =
out much sooner than they should have. I mention this because Skutt has al=
ways come to the rescue and paid for three sets of elements plus new automa=
tic controls. The last elements which are high durability elements, have w=
orked perfectly. I cannot praise Skutt enough for standing behind their pr=
oducts. Whatever kiln you choose, be sure the manufacturer has a good track=
record of standing behind his product and in a timely fashion.
Have fun shopping.
Dick Walker
Muddy Duck Pottery
>From: Mary Meyers
>Date: Fri Mar 03 12:57:14 CST 2006
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: KILN Questions
> HELP!! I have an old kiln. Paragon model LT.3 .I bought it used (=
it was nine years old). I have used it for five years no problems. Obviousl=
y I need a new Kiln.
>This will be my last kiln and I would like to hear from the group about su=
ch things as front load vs. top load. 2.5 in vs. 3 inch brick. Plus when I =
do purchase new I would like to convert my old kiln into butane for additio=
nal applications. I have no natural gas.
>Thanks for any advice.
>
>Thanks for any help from anyone,
>Mary Meyers
>mary k meyers
>pottery _lady@sbcglobal.net
>254-765-3813
>
>__________________________________________________________________________=
____
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink=
.com.
William & Susan Schran User on wed 8 mar 06
On 3/7/06 10:32 PM, "Dick & Mary Walker" wrote:
> Unfortunately, my kiln, and, I believe three others on the East Coast have had
> a similar problem, elements burning out much sooner than they should have.
I've faced a similar issue at our school setting, having to replace elements
as firing times progressively get longer. When a ^6 firing started at 6am
ends past 10pm, it's time I replace the elements. Why? Because that's when I
leave school and I always make sure the kiln is off before I leave. So I'm
replacing elements about every 18 months.
We're in an institutional setting and we are fed 208 volts, thus we have
208v elements. But the problem is also we don't always get 208 volts.
Sometimes, especially during air conditioning times, we only are fed 190
volts. I've checked it several times. But I think that we also get voltage
spikes that may contribute to a shorter life of the elements.
I keep track of all firings so I'll know if it's the voltage or the elements
With our new kiln building, housing our gas fired kiln & 3 electric kilns,
we are fed 480 volts and have a transformer stepping that down to 208 volts.
I'm waiting to see if this makes a difference this coming summer.
-- William "Bill" Schran
Fredericksburg, Virginia
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
Arnold Howard on mon 13 mar 06
Especially since this will be your last kiln,
you should choose the design carefully.
The main advantage of the front-loading kiln
is that it is easier to reach into than the
top-loading kiln. The front-loader is more
expensive because it is a lot more difficult
to build.
I prefer 3" bricks over 2.5" for pottery
because of the extra insulation and wall
strength.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Meyers"
This will be my last kiln and I would like to
hear from the group about such things as
front load vs. top load. 2.5 in vs. 3 inch
brick.
Sue Roessel Dura on mon 1 jan 07
As a newbie on this list and also with my first kiln, I would like to =
thank
everyone for information about my failed relays. I'm praying that UPS =
will
bring me the new ones tomorrow with the hope of having a delivery ready =
by
Saturday ;-)
When I bought the kiln and controller, the thermocouple and elements were
mentioned as routine maintenance items, but I didn't hear about the =
relays. I
now understand that their failure is also a part of routine maintenance. =
What I
would like to know is if there is any way to tell ahead of time that they=
are
ready to go. It would have been a lot less stressful if I had replaced =
them at
the 100 firing mark or 3 year mark rather than waiting for failure. I =
have a
spare thermocouple on hand, so now I'm thinking I should also have extra =
relays.
Their failure also fused the plugs between the kiln sections, so I'd =
rather
replace them before that happens. From one of the replies, it sounded =
like a
failure during firing can ruin the whole load and I certainly want to =
avoid
that!
I think the elements fail slowly enough that you can squeeze a few =
firings out
while you order new ones? Are there any other kiln parts I should have =
on hand?
Is there any advise for after the new relays and plugs are installed? =
Should I
watch the first firing from beginning to end? =20
Thanks!
Sue - SRDura@hiwaay.net
Arnold Howard on tue 2 jan 07
A relay sometimes makes a chattering or popping noise when
it is about to fail. But often there is no warning.
It is difficult to predict the life of a relay. Relay
failure is rare on some of the small 120 volt jewelry kilns,
because they fire to low temperatures and have little
amperage running through the relay. (One of the causes of
relay failure is excessive heat in the switch box. The relay
contains a small electromagnet with a spool of copper wire.
Heat melts the thin insulation on that wire.)
On the other hand, firings with long holds or extended slow
cooling segments result in shorter relay life. Cycling the
relays on and off for long periods eventually wears them
out.
A relay can fail in two ways: in the "on" position or the
"off" position. If a relay fails in the "off" position, your
ware will not fire to maturity. Ordinarily you can just fire
it again.
If your kiln has two or more relays and one of them fails in
the "on" position, your ware may slightly overfire, but the
kiln will not overfire. If your kiln has only one relay and
it fails in the "on" position, the kiln will probably
overfire.
For long relay life, do not allow the firing room
temperature to get higher than 110 degrees F (when measured
3 feet from the kiln). High ambient temperature is hard on
the kiln's relays and other electrical components.
If you monitor the kiln near the expected shutoff time, you
won't have to worry about relay failure. You will be there
if the kiln doesn't shut off due to a stuck relay, and you
can disconnect the power yourself.
However, you don't have to constantly watch the kiln
throughout the firing. Just check on it occasionally.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
------------
From: "Sue Roessel Dura"
When I bought the kiln and controller, the thermocouple and
elements were
mentioned as routine maintenance items, but I didn't hear
about the relays. I
now understand that their failure is also a part of routine
maintenance. What I
would like to know is if there is any way to tell ahead of
time that they are
ready to go.
timothy knick on wed 7 feb 07
What about an electric, computer controlled hi-fire, capable of controlling oxygen atmosphere? This is a tall order, considering that metal elements require oxidation for longevity. If it were possible to think a way around that problem you would have an immediate specialty competitionless market of which I would be a customer.
Thankyou,
Timothy Knick
---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
William & Susan Schran User on thu 8 feb 07
On 2/7/07 10:08 PM, "Vince Pitelka" wrote:
> Andy -
> There are so many manufacturers of very good electric toploader and
> frontloader kilns. It would be difficult to compete in that market. What
> is missing from the commercially-made kiln market are smaller gas kilns from
> a company that gives good customer service. If you were to manufacture
> reasonably-priced toploader and small frontloader (both in the 7-12 cubic
> foot range) kilns for natural gas or LPG, and then offer good customer
> service, I am sure that you'd do very well on sales.
>
> Hope this works out. We need someone addressing this corner of the market.
> - Vince
I agree with Vince on this one, the electric kiln market will be a tough one
to enter and compete in, small gas fired kilns might be the market to
explore.
Good customer service will be critical. I would add that CSA certification
of the gas train would certainly be a big selling point in having the kiln
pass city/county codes. At school, the fire marshall required a gas fired
kiln with CSA certification. Fortunately Geil kilns had the certification.
Even though other manufacturers use similar rated controls, they never had
there system put through the certification process.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Andy Misner on thu 8 feb 07
This is the best kind of advice I can get, from people who use the products.
We have made many gas fired industrial kilns. So I think a smaller gas fired
kiln could be done fairly easily. Thanks for your reply.
Andy Misner
www.indfirebrick.com
>Andy -
>There are so many manufacturers of very good electric toploader and
>frontloader kilns. It would be difficult to compete in that market. What
>is missing from the commercially-made kiln market are smaller gas kilns from
>a company that gives good customer service. If you were to manufacture
>reasonably-priced toploader and small frontloader (both in the 7-12 cubic
>foot range) kilns for natural gas or LPG, and then offer good customer
>service, I am sure that you'd do very well on sales.
>
>Hope this works out. We need someone addressing this corner of the market.
>- Vince
Linda Blossom on thu 8 feb 07
Andy,
There is one type of electric kiln that I have only
seen offered once (I don't recall where I saw the
ad) and it was not covered in the issue of Clay
Times that had an article about electric kilns. If
you have ever seen the elements that other countries
use, that is what I am talking about. The elements
look like rods - sort of make ours look like a joke.
Those elements, combined with some real insulation
value, not just 4" of brick but at least 2" of
fiber, and an insulated top and bottom and some itc
would make a kiln that would have little
competition. I also would like a front loader rather
than a top loader and one piece so heat isn't lost
through silly sections. Sure it would cost more,
but the savings on fuel and element replacement
would take care of that in time. Sort of the Orek
of kilns My Orek is 20 years old and runs like a
new machine. Meant to last. That is what I would
like to have purchased.
Linda
Subject: Re: Kiln Questions
Andy Misner wrote -
"My boss would like to start getting into building
smaller kilns for the
hobbyist. We have been in the refractory business
for 50+ years and we have
the materials and knowledge to make them. What we
would like to know is...
What sizes on the inside works best for you? What
would you prefer Electric
elements or natural gas (or propane)? Front
loading, or top loading? Any
particular shape works best for you?"
Andy -
There are so many manufacturers of very good
electric toploader and
frontloader kilns. It would be difficult to compete
in that market. What
is missing from the commercially-made kiln market
are smaller gas kilns from
a company that gives good customer service. If you
were to manufacture
reasonably-priced toploader and small frontloader
(both in the 7-12 cubic
foot range) kilns for natural gas or LPG, and then
offer good customer
service, I am sure that you'd do very well on sales.
Hope this works out. We need someone addressing
this corner of the market.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee
Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
____________________________________________________
__________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change
your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 9 feb 07
Dear Andy Misner,
So much depends on production rates, product dimensions and a myriad of =
other factors.
However, I think the best configuration is the "Top Hat Kiln" provided =
there is sufficient room to raise the canopy. If that is not possible =
then a "Shuttle Car" configuration seems to have many advantages.
Both top loading and front loading styles impose limitations relating to =
shelf weight and area and can impose physical strains that could lead to =
operator injury.
Gas fired kilns give scope for a broader palette but an atmosphere =
controlled electric kiln would offer similar advantages.
Wishing you success with your new venture.
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Larry Kruzan on fri 9 feb 07
Hi Kathy,
When I was trying to decide how big of a kiln I wanted to build I bought a
few hundred bricks to play with and started laying them out in the garage.
(It was winter and my garage is heated space) Calculating the double wall,
and burner flame channels there is 36" in "overhead" for the width of the
kiln. This was going to be the same no matter how many cubic feet I ended
up with.
The next fixed size I determined was the wall height, Knowing that most of
my work was less than 40" tall I calculated how high the walls had to be to
give me that height.
With these two things established I found I could build a kiln with stacking
space 36" wide for around 10% more bricks than a kiln 24" wide (afraid I
don't remember the exact number). Each foot of width added around 30 bricks
to the back and 30 brick to the front walls but none to the sides. A foot
of width adds 12 bricks each to the floor and arch per foot of depth of the
kiln.
So to increase the size of a kiln with a stacking space 24" wide and 48"
deep to a space 36" wide and 48" deep would require less than 200 bricks and
20 or so arch bricks, Increasing the total stacking space from 27 cf to 40
cf, in round numbers. Economy of scale thing, if I understand the term
right. The biggest bang for the buck in building a kiln.
A person could build a 1 cf gas kiln but it would NOT fire right and it
certainly would not be economical to build. The "correct" size kiln is
mostly likely as elusive and subjective as asking "what is art?" there will
be as many answers as there are methods of work. "I"ll know it when I see
it" is mostly the answer given by those who don't know a lot about art but
most potters would give that same answer about kilns.
The 20cf that own is a little small for you and it sure would be for me but
one of my students is elderly and works very slowly - she could not fill a
20cf kiln in a year. I could fire one every week, perhaps twice a week most
of the time.
The best size is the kiln that you can fire often enough that it will give
you the feedback to direct your work and glaze development. For some wood
fire types that may well be 3-4 times a year. For a hobbyist it might be
every two months. For me it is a two to three week cycle.
There are times when I wish I had a kiln that was half the size of my
current one just so I could turn it around faster and do more tests. But at
Christmas time when there is not enough time to do anything, unloading a big
kiln the week before the 25th feels great.
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Kathy McDonald
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:32 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Kiln Questions
What would be considered to be a mid or small size gas kiln?
How small can it be made for a gas kiln to be efficient.?
I find the 20 cu ft one I have a bit too small.
Kathy
Larry Kruzan on fri 9 feb 07
Hi Andy,
I too agree with Vince that a mid to small gas Kiln is what is lacking in
the industry. My preference would be front loading - construction would be
easier and cheaper and exhausted electric kiln are easy to convert for folks
wanting a top loader.
This would be targeted to the advanced hobbyist or small art potter who is
not generating tons of pots each month. Take a look at Baileys new "small"
gas kiln, 8cf stacking space, front loading, good construction and $4000. I
think that it will be ideal in its target market. There are several
builders of bigger, high dollar kilns for the professional or they mostly
build their own. It is the other end of the market that has been ignored
except for electric kilns.
Having purchased brick and fiber from you in the past I know you folks have
the right stuff to do the job and I look forward to seeing what you come up
with.
Good to hear from you again,
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Andy Misner
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 7:30 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Kiln Questions
This is the best kind of advice I can get, from people who use the products.
We have made many gas fired industrial kilns. So I think a smaller gas fired
kiln could be done fairly easily. Thanks for your reply.
Andy Misner
www.indfirebrick.com
>Andy -
>There are so many manufacturers of very good electric toploader and
>frontloader kilns. It would be difficult to compete in that market. What
>is missing from the commercially-made kiln market are smaller gas kilns
from
>a company that gives good customer service. If you were to manufacture
>reasonably-priced toploader and small frontloader (both in the 7-12 cubic
>foot range) kilns for natural gas or LPG, and then offer good customer
>service, I am sure that you'd do very well on sales.
>
>Hope this works out. We need someone addressing this corner of the market.
>- Vince
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Andy Misner on fri 9 feb 07
Thanks for all your replies so far. Its been very informative. I'm going to
bring this information to the "powers that be" and we will move forward.
I'll keep everyone updated on what is going on. Please do not hesitate to
give suggestions, and to ask me refractory/brick questions. If I do not know
the answer right off, I will find it out for you.
Andy Misner
www.indfirebrick.com
Bobbie Fenton on fri 9 feb 07
I prefer electric - front loading if I could afford the cost difference because of my age and build, it's much easier to get in and out of, if you know what I mean! I'm in a commercial situation - a very prolific potter, so would have to be durable, withstand constant high heat firings, elements easy to change, reliable, energy efficient, refrigerator shape is best, and as for size - I'm one of those who likes one really big one and one medium size for firing smaller loads without having to wait to fill up the larger one. Hope this helps you.
Bobbie Fenton
Mississippi Stone Pottery
Vince Pitelka wrote:
Andy Misner wrote -
"My boss would like to start getting into building smaller kilns for the
hobbyist. We have been in the refractory business for 50+ years and we have
the materials and knowledge to make them. What we would like to know is...
What sizes on the inside works best for you? What would you prefer Electric
elements or natural gas (or propane)? Front loading, or top loading? Any
particular shape works best for you?"
Andy -
There are so many manufacturers of very good electric toploader and
frontloader kilns. It would be difficult to compete in that market. What
is missing from the commercially-made kiln market are smaller gas kilns from
a company that gives good customer service. If you were to manufacture
reasonably-priced toploader and small frontloader (both in the 7-12 cubic
foot range) kilns for natural gas or LPG, and then offer good customer
service, I am sure that you'd do very well on sales.
Hope this works out. We need someone addressing this corner of the market.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
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with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
Hank Murrow on fri 9 feb 07
On Feb 9, 2007, at 5:52 AM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> I too agree with Vince that a mid to small gas Kiln is what is lacking
> in
> the industry. My preference would be front loading - construction
> would be
> easier and cheaper and exhausted electric kiln are easy to convert for
> folks
> wanting a top loader.
Why not a lifting design for complete access?
>
> This would be targeted to the advanced hobbyist or small art potter
> who is
> not generating tons of pots each month.
And while you're at it, design it for slat/soda fires. Downdraft for
good distribution of the vapor.
> Having purchased brick and fiber from you in the past I know you folks
> have
> the right stuff to do the job and I look forward to seeing what you
> come up
> with.
Replaceable castable floor parts bedded in fiber, with a lifting fiber
top. I wish you luck, and please report back on your trials. Perhaps a
smaller(8cuft) version of this one.....
http://www.murrow.biz/hank/kiln-and-tools.htm
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Kathy McDonald on fri 9 feb 07
What would be considered to be a mid or small size gas kiln?
How small can it be made for a gas kiln to be efficient.?
I find the 20 cu ft one I have a bit too small.
Kathy
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of
Larry Kruzan
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 7:53 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Kiln Questions
Hi Andy,
I too agree with Vince that a mid to small gas Kiln is what
is lacking in
the industry. My preference would be front loading -
construction would be
easier and cheaper and exhausted electric kiln are easy to
convert for folks
wanting a top loader.
This would be targeted to the advanced hobbyist or small art
potter who is
not generating tons of pots each month. Take a look at
Baileys new "small"
gas kiln, 8cf stacking space, front loading, good
construction and $4000. I
think that it will be ideal in its target market. There are
several
builders of bigger, high dollar kilns for the professional
or they mostly
build their own. It is the other end of the market that has
been ignored
except for electric kilns.
Having purchased brick and fiber from you in the past I know
you folks have
the right stuff to do the job and I look forward to seeing
what you come up
with.
Good to hear from you again,
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
Andy Misner
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 7:30 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Kiln Questions
This is the best kind of advice I can get, from people who
use the products.
We have made many gas fired industrial kilns. So I think a
smaller gas fired
kiln could be done fairly easily. Thanks for your reply.
Andy Misner
www.indfirebrick.com
>Andy -
>There are so many manufacturers of very good electric
toploader and
>frontloader kilns. It would be difficult to compete in
that market. What
>is missing from the commercially-made kiln market are
smaller gas kilns
from
>a company that gives good customer service. If you were to
manufacture
>reasonably-priced toploader and small frontloader (both in
the 7-12 cubic
>foot range) kilns for natural gas or LPG, and then offer
good customer
>service, I am sure that you'd do very well on sales.
>
>Hope this works out. We need someone addressing this
corner of the market.
>- Vince
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Vince Pitelka on fri 9 feb 07
Kathy McDonald wrote:
> What would be considered to be a mid or small size gas kiln? How small can
> it be made for a gas kiln to be efficient.? I find the 20 cu ft one I have
> a bit too small.
Kathy -
A 20-cubic foot gas kiln is really an ideal size for a studio potter,
because it gives fairly quick turnover, and you learn from every firing.
Larger gas kilns are appropriate for potters who are doing production, and
if that fits your studio setup, perhaps you need a larger kiln. If you have
the financial resources, then you can afford a Bailey or a Geil for $15K or
$20K, but otherwise, you need to build your own. Get Fred Olson's "The Kiln
Book" and Nils Lou's "The Art of Firing" and go for it. Anyone willing to
invest the labor and craftsmanship can build a first-rate gas kiln of
whatever size they need. You're never going to find anyone selling quality
larger gas kilns for a bargain price, because it's an impossibility.
There are plenty of larger gas kilns on the market, and they are as
expensive as they need to be. But there is a big gap in the market in the
availability of smaller gas kilns, which shouldn't be much more expensive
than comparably-priced electrics. As I stated in an earlier message on this
subject, there is a great demand for frontloader and toploader gas kilns in
the 7-12 cubic foot range, from a company that gives good customer service.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lee Love on sat 10 feb 07
a modular gas kiln would be very cool! So would electric with
heavy elements and a reduction burner, like what is available here in
Japan.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Hank Murrow on sat 10 feb 07
Larry's post here is wonderfully helpful, and I would add only one
thing to it. Be sure to use cardboard mockups of your intended shelves,
as the kiln you end up with needs to be designed with that module in
mind.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
On Feb 9, 2007, at 8:18 PM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
> Hi Kathy,
>
> When I was trying to decide how big of a kiln I wanted to build I
> bought a
> few hundred bricks to play with and started laying them out in the
> garage.
> (It was winter and my garage is heated space) Calculating the double
> wall,
> and burner flame channels there is 36" in "overhead" for the width of
> the
> kiln. This was going to be the same no matter how many cubic feet I
> ended
> up with.
>
> The next fixed size I determined was the wall height, Knowing that
> most of
> my work was less than 40" tall I calculated how high the walls had to
> be to
> give me that height.
>
> With these two things established I found I could build a kiln with
> stacking
> space 36" wide for around 10% more bricks than a kiln 24" wide (afraid
> I
> don't remember the exact number). Each foot of width added around 30
> bricks
> to the back and 30 brick to the front walls but none to the sides. A
> foot
> of width adds 12 bricks each to the floor and arch per foot of depth
> of the
> kiln.
>
> So to increase the size of a kiln with a stacking space 24" wide and
> 48"
> deep to a space 36" wide and 48" deep would require less than 200
> bricks and
> 20 or so arch bricks, Increasing the total stacking space from 27 cf
> to 40
> cf, in round numbers. Economy of scale thing, if I understand the term
> right. The biggest bang for the buck in building a kiln.
>
> A person could build a 1 cf gas kiln but it would NOT fire right and it
> certainly would not be economical to build. The "correct" size kiln is
> mostly likely as elusive and subjective as asking "what is art?" there
> will
> be as many answers as there are methods of work. "I"ll know it when I
> see
> it" is mostly the answer given by those who don't know a lot about art
> but
> most potters would give that same answer about kilns.
>
> The 20cf that own is a little small for you and it sure would be for
> me but
> one of my students is elderly and works very slowly - she could not
> fill a
> 20cf kiln in a year. I could fire one every week, perhaps twice a
> week most
> of the time.
>
> The best size is the kiln that you can fire often enough that it will
> give
> you the feedback to direct your work and glaze development. For some
> wood
> fire types that may well be 3-4 times a year. For a hobbyist it might
> be
> every two months. For me it is a two to three week cycle.
>
> There are times when I wish I had a kiln that was half the size of my
> current one just so I could turn it around faster and do more tests.
> But at
> Christmas time when there is not enough time to do anything, unloading
> a big
> kiln the week before the 25th feels great.
>
> Larry Kruzan
> Lost Creek Pottery
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Kathy
> McDonald
> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:32 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Kiln Questions
>
> What would be considered to be a mid or small size gas kiln?
>
> How small can it be made for a gas kiln to be efficient.?
>
> I find the 20 cu ft one I have a bit too small.
>
> Kathy
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Bonnie Staffel on sat 10 feb 07
When I left Cranbrook we purchased a 5 cu. Ft. Alpine. Yes, it was =
small
but I got a heck of a lot of work out of it. Being updraft was the only
problem I had trouble overcoming back in the early 50's. I loved the =
bells
and whistles they provided which gave me exact numbers by which to fire.
Years later when we were in Charlevoix, I built a downdraft atmospheric =
gas
kiln, much larger, and I really was lost in the firing process. I was =
able
to do a big bisque firing, so for the glaze firing I decided to make
planters as I felt if they came out funny looking, at least they would =
be
saleable as such. My shop was open so I didn't have a lot of time to
experiment and waste pots. That first glaze firing produced one =
beautifully
glazed hanging planter. However circumstances presented themselves to =
stop
experimenting with it and I was having success with my electric kilns =
so
decided to scrap the gas kiln idea for the time being. A fellow potter =
was
in need of a gas kiln, so wound up selling that kiln to him. He used it =
for
a number of years and I think it also was bought by another potter and =
is
still in working condition. We designed that kiln from the books I had =
in
my library. =20
But I will never forget the little (really big to me) Alpine kiln. I
believe they don't make that size any more. =20
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Beginning Processes
Charter Member Potters Council
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