John Baymore on mon 12 apr 99
------------------
My favorite scenario to illustrate ONE particular nature of this ongoing,
oft-discussed thorny little problem sort of runs as follows:
Potter Smith, a very experienced pro with a wealth of technical knowledge,
goes to a workshop to see Potter Jones, a well known, famous ceramic
sculptor. Jones sculpture is SO good that articles on her work grace the
ceramic trade magazines all over the world. At the workshop, Potter Jones
shares her glaze formulas along with all manner of visual images and
forming techniques.
She mentions that she is by no means a glaze guru and that her formulations
are intended only to look visually interesting....... and that as they are
intended solely for sculpture, she really doesn't care about toxicity and
the like. She's never had them leach tested or anything like that. She
made them up by just randomly throwing things together until some good
looking stuff came out of the kiln. She admits that they are happy,
semi-educated accidents, really. She shares the annecdote about almost
flunking the required glaze calc course in undergrad school. Got thru
with a D, in fact.
She assures all in attendance that she is, of course, VERY concerned with
the safety of the people who might buy her work and would NEVER put these
finishes on functional ware. She also mantions that she explains this at
EVERY workshop she does.
Potter Smith returns to his co-op studio and tells all about the wonderful
things he learned at the workshop. Over the next few weeks Potter Smith
makes some nice sculptural vessel forms using aspects of some of Jones's
forming techniques and tries some of the new glaze formulas. Smith WANTS
to use these new glazes on his plates.... they LOOK so good.... but knows
he is limited to non-functional pots.
Soon after Smith gets the pieces out of the kiln, Potter Williams, a co-op
member, asks Potter Smith for all the glaze formulas that he mentioned
Potter Jones gave out. Being a nice person (like all potters tend to be),
Potter Smith complies. The sheet xeroxed and provided has the title at the
top =22Potter Jones Glaze Formulas Cone X =22 and a bunch of recipes with
surface type and color descriptions.
Potter Williams, a functional potter with a moderate amount of experience,
takes the glaze formulas and tests them and finds one that works well on
his forms. He then starts using it on the outside of vase forms.... since
he has enough background to look at the formula and know from the
ingredients (or the molecular) that it is probably not appropriate for food
contact surfaces. He also knows he should be particularly careful in
handling the raw glaze batch because it contains the dreaded Kryptonite
Tetroxide, known to be a highly suspected toxic absorbed thru skin contact,
ingestion, or inhalation by any EXPERIENCED potter.
At a craft fair, Potter Johnson sees Potter Williams pots and asks about
the formula for the glaze on the vases. Potter Williams says sure, and
gives a handwritten copy of the formula and reminds Johnson that is is for
the outside of things only. He then goes back to his studio after the
fair, and mails off the =22Potter Jones Glazes=22 sheet to this casual
acquantence whom he will never meet in person again.
Potter Johnson, a neophyte to clay, goes back to her group pottery guild
meeting, and tells all about this great new glaze she saw at this killer
craft fair, and shares the formula and the xeroxed sheet all around. She
in passing shares the =22outside only=22 comment about the fourth formula on
the list. A couple of the =22old hands=22 at the meeting get a copy of the
formulas and know right off looking at them that most are not good for food
contact and are toxic to handle in the raw form. They mentally file this
thought and put the glaze formula in their pockets to maybe come out to
test at some later date when a need arises. Many of the others with less
technical expertise just have a rave review of a nice =22glaze=22 and a new =
set
of formulas to test.
Potter Fredricks, another guild member, finds two of these Potter Jones
glazes from the sheet look just GREAT, and starts using them on his dinner
plates. Fredricks has been doing claywork only a couple of years and is
mostly self taught via the basic ceramics texts with a few workshops thrown
in.
He has never had any formal technical training, and is just exploring his
first steps into mixing glazes himself. He knows what line blends are and
how to weigh out materials, and multiply batch sizes, and all that sort of
stuff. In fact, he didn't have any Kryptonite Tetroxide in his materials
before, and had to go out and order a few pounds to do his first tests of
these formulas. He now has about 25 pounds of it in a plastic bag.
He knows how to test glazes..... you mix up a small batch weighing
carefully (cause in such small amounts if you don't weigh carefully that
can come out =22wrong=22), put it on a tile, fire it, and look at it. If =
it
looks like a glaze, walks like a glaze, and quacks like a glaze....... it's
a glaze. If it looks good, you use it.
Potter Fredricks is VERY excited right now........ because he is going to
his first craft fair to sell his pots in a few weeks.... and he has these
GREAT new glazes to grace his struggling but improving forms.
The fair is a success.... people buy his pots=21 Not a lot..... but enough.
Many folks comment on the really interesting glazes he has. From these
comments, he vows to test more of the glazes on that sheet. With the money
earned by this sucessful first show, he decides to continue his ceramics
education. Potter Fredricks goes to a summer program workshop with a
famous ceramic sculptural vessel maker shortly thereafter, and shares
Jones's glazes that he is using over dinner conversation with all that
attend that workshop.
Potter Johansen is attending a summer workshop and ................... . .
. . . . . .
And so it goes, and goes, and goes. Sort of like the Energizer Bunny.
=3Cwg=3E
Food for thought.
Best,
.....................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752
JBaymore=40Compuserve.com
a on wed 14 apr 99
just wondering what Beatrice Wood who glazed , fired, drank and ate
out of luster ware for at least sixty of her 105 years, or Bernard
Leach using lead in raku at 92 would think of all this a little more
food for thought, just wondering ruby
Lee Jaffe on thu 15 apr 99
At 10:44 AM -0400 4/14/99, a wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>just wondering what Beatrice Wood who glazed , fired, drank and ate
>out of luster ware for at least sixty of her 105 years, or Bernard
>Leach using lead in raku at 92 would think of all this a little more
>food for thought, just wondering ruby
I've thought about this one too. If you go to the Art Alliance in Chicago,
there is a beautiful yellow vase by Lucie Rie. The label indicates that the
glaze uses uranium. Lucie Rie lived to ... what ... 80, 90?
Billy Crystal talks about his relations who ate brisket and corned beef
and chicken with the skin and lots of butter and sour cream and lived
into their nineties. And we act like we'll keel over immediately if we
ingest the least amount of fat. Go figure!
I think we may need a bit of tempering in our attitudes to hazards
-- living in terror of the environment isn't healthy either -- but it
would be a mistake to draw simple comparisons between earlier
generations and ourselves. For one thing, you are looking only at the
survivors. We don't know about all the potters who died of cancer,
or lung disease, or retired due to carpal tunnel, long before their time.
Maybe 1 in 100 make it to old age. Even if it is 10 in 100 or 50 in 100,
those aren't good odds. In toxicology they have a figure called LD50
which indicates the level of exposure where half the test population
dies. I guess your point of view will depend on which half of the
population you are in.
Another point to keep in mind is that the world and the chemicals
around us are far more complicated now than they were. Bernard
Leach's system had to contend with lead but we have lead, asbestos,
dioxin, and endocrine mimics and inhibitors... The human body is
a complex system and good at absorbing and healing, but it can only
handle so much. Why throw any extra problems at it than you
really need to? Think of it like that guy on Ed Sullivan who spun
plates on top of poles. You keep adding plates and at some point
the whole thing comes crashing down. For some of us, its sooner
rather than later. You can't count on being Bernard Leach.
-- Lee Jaffe
(former Health Science librarian)
=====================================================================
jaffe@scruznet.com http://www.jaffebros.com/lee
Gulliver's Travels http://www.jaffebros.com/lee/gulliver
New Horizons in Scholarly Communication http://libweb.ucsc.edu/scomm
Internet Subject Guide http://libweb.ucsc.edu/help/subject.html
"Terry Sullivan/Nottingham Center for the Arts. San Marcos," on fri 16 apr 99
Though I tend to have some agreement with Ruby that we may often go overboard
on the "toxic" materials thing; I have a healthy respect for the potential
dangers involved and deffinitly would prefer to err on the side of caution.
( ware dust and chemical masks, use spray booth, use gloves, don't breath
kiln fumes, eat out of "safe" dishes etc. )
I have a question regarding Rubys post though. Do we know that Beatrice used
these luster ware and uranium qlazed pieces as food containers herself ???
Or that Bernard Leach drank out of his lead glazed raku ware ???
Regardless; the point Lee Jaffe makes is VERY significant. Folks tend to
point out the exceptions as proof that the warnings are overblown. Fact is
that they are just that "Exceptions". 5 out of 6 people playing Russian
Roulett will probably live through the first spin. On average there will only
be 5 left for the the second spin and so on. After awhile there is one fellow
left and we can point to him and say " see; it's not so dangerous".
Picasso smoked a pack , or more, of those incredibly strong french ciggaretts
every day ( Gallois ? ) and lived to 90. That's an EXCEPTION !!
"Smoke" ( or whatever) if you want. Just be clear and honest about what you
are doing. Don't use skewed statistics or unfounded anecdote as a justifier.
And while I'm ranting on; remember - practicaly no one is an island. Unless
one lives completely disconected from others; there are commitments and
responsibilities we have entered into knowingly and willingly.
I don't think one is ethicly free to engage in any ole potentialy dangerous
behavior
if you have made agreements such as marriage and familly.
Terry Sullivan
Nottingham Center for the Arts
San Marcos, CA
Martin Howard on fri 16 apr 99
If one studies Irisdiagnosis or Iridology, it is not long before you
find that the eyes of the current generations are very much weaker, in
so many ways, than those of earlier generations.
Compare the clear blue eyed pioneers of the north west of the USA and
Canada with the current offspring. They were able to do what very few of
us could now do. It is very difficult to find such clear irises amongst
modern people. I have compared 3 generations of Poles and found a
similar change.
There are probably many other methods of comparing past and current
generations and the general strength of their bodies, the ability to
resist disease, poisons and pollution.
We now live in a more poisoned environment, in general. Our bodies are
therefore being stressed more than before.
It therefore follows that we should take more care not to ingest
poisons, because our bodies are not, in general, able to withstand what
our earlier relatives would have been able to shrug off.
Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery and Press
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE
Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
araneajo@gn.apc.org
Tom Wirt on sat 17 apr 99
>
>There are probably many other methods of comparing past and current
>generations and the general strength of their bodies, the ability to
>resist disease, poisons and pollution.
>
>We now live in a more poisoned environment, in general. Our bodies are
>therefore being stressed more than before.
>
>It therefore follows that we should take more care not to ingest
>poisons, because our bodies are not, in general, able to withstand what
>our earlier relatives would have been able to shrug off.
>
Just to add fuel to this, The radio show "To The Best of our Knowledge" just
ran a show on "Germs" and this was one of the topics presented....how
bacteria and viruses are doing more damage to us because of the sterility of
our environment now....our bodies don't have as many resource to fight them
off.
Go to www.audible.com , search for "to the best of our knowledge" and pick
out the show "Germs". You'll have to download the player which doesn't take
long. Cost of the show is, I think $1.95.
Tom Wirt
Stephen Mills on mon 19 apr 99
In message , Tom Wirt writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>
>>There are probably many other methods of comparing past and current
>>generations and the general strength of their bodies, the ability to
>>resist disease, poisons and pollution.
>>
>>We now live in a more poisoned environment, in general. Our bodies are
>>therefore being stressed more than before.
>>
>>It therefore follows that we should take more care not to ingest
>>poisons, because our bodies are not, in general, able to withstand what
>>our earlier relatives would have been able to shrug off.
>>
>
>
>Just to add fuel to this, The radio show "To The Best of our Knowledge" just
>ran a show on "Germs" and this was one of the topics presented....how
>bacteria and viruses are doing more damage to us because of the sterility of
>our environment now....our bodies don't have as many resource to fight them
>off.
>Tom Wirt
>
In the same way that overuse of Antibiotics has produced resistant
strains of bacteria and promoted a load of human internal problems by
upsetting the natural bacterial balance of the gut.
Steve
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
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