Veena Raghavan on mon 19 apr 99
Hi Clayarters,
I don't usually join in this type of discussion, but this time, I
really want to put in my two cents worth, even though I am coming in rather
late. I did not partipate in the discussion about taking from other
cultures, because I disagreed with the entire concept, as I do about the
rice bowls.
I have been making what I call "chopstick bowls" for about six or
seven years now. Strangely enough, I thought I had thought up a unique
idea, not realizing that there were others who had had the same concept. I
do not see any reason not to take a concept from another culture, change it
alter it, add to it or incorporate it in your own design. I was born in the
U. S., have lived most of my life in Europe or that States, but my parents
came from India, and I have lived there too. I do not resent all the
"borrowing" or "copying" that has gone on in so many areas of Indian
culture, the incorporation of Indian music into Western music, the
incorporation of Indian designs into Western designs, the use of the sari
as the basis of couturier designs...I could go on forever.
Cultures are to be shared, I feel, the melding of these cultures is
wonderful. If it were not for Bernard Leach and Hamada bring pottery back
to Europe, maybe none of us would be doing the type of pottery we are
today. The Chinese glazes, I assume, are the basis of many high fire glazes
and probably others. Is this a crime? I think not. 'Nough said. This is
already far too long.
Thank you Clayarters and Clayart for letting my little voice have
its say. I appreciate Clayart so much. You are such a great group and so
giving. So I hope that no one will take offence at what I have said. Peace,
and let us all live together in harmony!
All the best.
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
Philip Schroeder on tue 20 apr 99
In a message dated 99-04-19 10:51:59 EDT, you write:
<< Cultures are to be shared, I feel, the melding of these cultures is
wonderful. If it were not for Bernard Leach and Hamada bring pottery back
to Europe, maybe none of us would be doing the type of pottery we are
today. >>
Yes, I believe that learning from, sharing with, and respecting other
cultures is extremely important. I also believe that anyone who studies and
works with clay is profoundly influenced by Leach/Hamada whether they realize
it or not. But I am aware that our culture is an awfully powerful force and
the potential to distort verses "share/learn" from other cultures is what is
a concern to me. More so than "holes in rice bowls", which is only a small
scale example, I think American Raku is the better example. And don't get me
wrong, I think there is amazing technical and artistic achievement in
American Raku. I appreciate it, even if it isn't exactly my personal taste.
It is so far removed from the original inspiration, it is unbeliveable, to
me anyway. It must be the drive in our culture to make things "Bigger,
Bolder, Brighter, and More Complex" to satisfy the marketplace, gain a little
recognition, and to explore that creates these things. I just don't think
"Bigger, Bolder, Brighter" is necessarily Better.
Phil Schroeder in Chicago
Don & Isao Morrill on tue 20 apr 99
At 10:50 4/19/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi Clayarters,
> I don't usually join in this type of discussion, but this time, I
>really want to put in my two cents worth, even though I am coming in rather
>late. I did not partipate in the discussion about taking from other
>cultures, because I disagreed with the entire concept, as I do about the
>rice bowls.
> I have been making what I call "chopstick bowls" for about six or
>seven years now. Strangely enough, I thought I had thought up a unique
>idea, not realizing that there were others who had had the same concept. I
>do not see any reason not to take a concept from another culture, change it
>alter it, add to it or incorporate it in your own design. I was born in the
>U. S., have lived most of my life in Europe or that States, but my parents
>came from India, and I have lived there too. I do not resent all the
>"borrowing" or "copying" that has gone on in so many areas of Indian
>culture, the incorporation of Indian music into Western music, the
>incorporation of Indian designs into Western designs, the use of the sari
>as the basis of couturier designs...I could go on forever.
> Cultures are to be shared, I feel, the melding of these cultures is
>wonderful. If it were not for Bernard Leach and Hamada bring pottery back
>to Europe, maybe none of us would be doing the type of pottery we are
>today. The Chinese glazes, I assume, are the basis of many high fire glazes
>and probably others. Is this a crime? I think not. 'Nough said. This is
>already far too long.
> Thank you Clayarters and Clayart for letting my little voice have
>its say. I appreciate Clayart so much. You are such a great group and so
>giving. So I hope that no one will take offence at what I have said. Peace,
>and let us all live together in harmony!
>All the best.
>
>Veena Raghavan
>75124.2520@compuserve.com
>
Dear Veena, Right you are. It is gratifying to find other persons
understanding there there is no cultural isolation but only cultural
ignorance. Many years ago while investigating simple instrument for making
fire discovered in S. America,I not only found it from the S.Pacific but
also that the concept was almost precisely that of the Diesel engine. Since
both Isao and myself studied in Japan,Mexico,Nigeria,United States, Canada
and other countries through reading and observing,it would seem we make
pots in celebration of ALL the earths' people. So be it. Thank you. Isao &
Don M.
wrightspot on fri 23 apr 99
Hi Veena and others,
I thought that I was the first to make the rice bowls with holes ( have
been doing so for 4 or 5 years) but discovered that a friend of mine across
town (Brisbane, Australia) started making them independently at about the
same time as me! They're loved by Anglo- Australians, but rarely bought
by Australians of Asian background. It's interesting ,isn't it, that the
same idea should pop up all over the world....nothing new, eh?
Best wishes, Denise.
Veena Raghavan on sat 24 apr 99
Hi Denise and all rice bowl with indents or holes makers,
I have been making my "chopstick bowls" for several years, around
seven I think, maybe longer. I too thought that it was my original idea.
Then I saw the bowls with holes in an American magazine and realized that
someone else had the idea. Recently, I saw an Australian interior design
magazine, and there they were again. Even more recently, someone told me
that Willaim Sonomo is carrying rice bowls with holes for the chopsticks,
so now they are being mass produced as well. I have found this with several
other designs I thought were unique, such as the ikebana-like flower
holders. I worked hard on developing a method of holding the flowers in a
small container with tube-like additions, only to find that someone else
was making them too in another part of the U.S. I guess there are not many
ideas that are truly unique, and I see nothing upsetting about that. It has
been like that through history, I guess we do not, as they say, re-invent
the wheel!
My bowls are sold through several galleries, so I do not know who
is buying them, but I have a feeling that they are probably not being
bought by people of Southeast Asian descent. I think they prefer to use
chopstick holders.
All the best.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
Cliff Glover on mon 26 apr 99
Hello rice bowl makers,
I, too, sell a lot of ricebowls. I first made one design with the chopsticks
over the center (bad luck in China), then another smaller version with the rim
indentations (no holes) off centered about one-fifth from the edge. I sell a
lot to the Asian community, but they may be more westernized than you think.
One Japanese man who lives nearby and teaches sumi, ikebana, and the tea
ceremony, bought a pair to bring with him as gifts on a recent visit to Japan.
It turned out, however, that he bought them as bowls intended for serving
pickles! You just never know how your pots are going to be used for.
Cliff Glover
Veena Raghavan wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hi Denise and all rice bowl with indents or holes makers,
> I have been making my "chopstick bowls" for several years, around
> seven I think, maybe longer. I too thought that it was my original idea.
> Then I saw the bowls with holes in an American magazine and realized that
> someone else had the idea. Recently, I saw an Australian interior design
> magazine, and there they were again. Even more recently, someone told me
> that Willaim Sonomo is carrying rice bowls with holes for the chopsticks,
> so now they are being mass produced as well. I have found this with several
> other designs I thought were unique, such as the ikebana-like flower
> holders. I worked hard on developing a method of holding the flowers in a
> small container with tube-like additions, only to find that someone else
> was making them too in another part of the U.S. I guess there are not many
> ideas that are truly unique, and I see nothing upsetting about that. It has
> been like that through history, I guess we do not, as they say, re-invent
> the wheel!
> My bowls are sold through several galleries, so I do not know who
> is buying them, but I have a feeling that they are probably not being
> bought by people of Southeast Asian descent. I think they prefer to use
> chopstick holders.
> All the best.
> Veena
>
> Veena Raghavan
> 75124.2520@compuserve.com
Veena Raghavan on tue 27 apr 99
Cliff,
It is very amusing that your rice bowls were bought to take to
Japan to serve pickes. Wonder if the recipients of the gift used them for
pickles or rice!
I have been selling these fairly well in different locations, so I
guess, some people like them, but whether they use them as rice bowls or
for pickles, who knows?
I am really interested to see that so many people are making these
bowls, they must be going somewhere.
All the best.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
beardiherd on tue 17 aug 99
Hello, I am relatively new to pottery (3 years) and have a small sstudio in
southeast Michigan. Not making profit yet, so still working at job part
time. Recently I was at a friends for dinner, and she served one course in
beautiful porceline rice bowls. they were white with a blue band of trim
with delicate patterns of sun rays. The rays, which were not real big were
shaped like grains of rice. They were also translucent. She asked me about
them, what they were made of and told me she was told the rays were made
with grains of rice put into the clay and fired. This would explain the
shape, but there was still a translucent coating of glaze (?) where the rice
grains would have been. They were absolutely beautiful and so delicate.
Could anyone tell me if she was right? I would love to try something like
that. Thank you Sherry Morrow
Robert Marshall Simpson on wed 18 aug 99
Sherry
If the bowl was fired twice (bisque, then glaze) the rice would burn out
before the glaze was applied.
You can do it too!
Good luck!
Kayte---in hot,dry Oklahoma and heading for cool, green Wisconsin
-----Original Message-----
From: beardiherd
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 11:12 AM
Subject: Rice Bowls
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hello, I am relatively new to pottery (3 years) and have a small sstudio in
>southeast Michigan. Not making profit yet, so still working at job part
>time. Recently I was at a friends for dinner, and she served one course
in
>beautiful porceline rice bowls. they were white with a blue band of trim
>with delicate patterns of sun rays. The rays, which were not real big were
>shaped like grains of rice. They were also translucent. She asked me about
>them, what they were made of and told me she was told the rays were made
>with grains of rice put into the clay and fired. This would explain the
>shape, but there was still a translucent coating of glaze (?) where the
rice
>grains would have been. They were absolutely beautiful and so delicate.
>Could anyone tell me if she was right? I would love to try something like
>that. Thank you Sherry Morrow
>
Dannon Rhudy on wed 18 aug 99
If rice were the substance used to create the rays, it would have burned
out in the bisque firing. When the work was glazed, all of it would have
been coated with the glaze - thus the "rays" would appear to be glazed
also, because they WERE glazed.
Regards,
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
At 12:06 PM 8/17/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hello, I am relatively new to pottery (3 years) and have a small sstudio in
>southeast Michigan. Not making profit yet, so still working at job part
>time. Recently I was at a friends for dinner, and she served one course in
>beautiful porceline rice bowls. they were white with a blue band of trim
>with delicate patterns of sun rays. The rays, which were not real big were
>shaped like grains of rice. They were also translucent. She asked me about
>them, what they were made of and told me she was told the rays were made
>with grains of rice put into the clay and fired. This would explain the
>shape, but there was still a translucent coating of glaze (?) where the rice
>grains would have been. They were absolutely beautiful and so delicate.
>Could anyone tell me if she was right? I would love to try something like
>that. Thank you Sherry Morrow
>
WHew536674@cs.com on wed 18 aug 99
Sherry,
Sounds like translucent porcelain. There are a few people out there that
also pierce the piece, and fill the open areas with a high viscosity glaze
(possibly where the rice impression was on those bowls) and another glaze on
top. This lets the light through. If you are really into this I recommend
the book Contemporary Porcelain: by Peter Lane. It's published by Chilton
Book Co. in Radnor, Pennsylvania.
The book has clay bodies, glazes, techniques, etc. of different types of
porcelain, and I think it is well worth every penny.
Joyce A
Mission, TX
Where it is over 100 degrees every day for the month of Aug.
Waldo, Carol on wed 18 aug 99
Sherry
After reading a book describing the technique, I tried it myself and the
results were pretty cool. The starting point is when your piece is not
freshly thrown, but still pliable enough not to crack when you stick rice
into it. You then carefully embed pieces of rice in the piece - support the
clay on one side while pushing the rice through from the other. Once you
bisque the piece the rice will have burnt out so that when you glaze you
will have a more translucent area where the rice was.
> ----------
> From: beardiherd[SMTP:beardiherd@tdi.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 9:06 AM
> Subject: Rice Bowls
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello, I am relatively new to pottery (3 years) and have a small sstudio
> in
> southeast Michigan. Not making profit yet, so still working at job part
> time. Recently I was at a friends for dinner, and she served one course
> in
> beautiful porceline rice bowls. they were white with a blue band of trim
> with delicate patterns of sun rays. The rays, which were not real big
> were
> shaped like grains of rice. They were also translucent. She asked me
> about
> them, what they were made of and told me she was told the rays were made
> with grains of rice put into the clay and fired. This would explain the
> shape, but there was still a translucent coating of glaze (?) where the
> rice
> grains would have been. They were absolutely beautiful and so delicate.
> Could anyone tell me if she was right? I would love to try something like
> that. Thank you Sherry Morrow
>
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