MR WENDELL R RIDENOUR on mon 24 may 99
TWO Whole years..............I can center a little better but still
not as good as I would like...I did notice...when I used a bat called
"plastic bat" I seemed to do better....are all bats the same or is
there a bat that does better than others OR COULD IT BE
ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did notice that we did fight a lot over who was going to use the
only two plastic pats in the school...the teacher always won....we
don't like F's So whats the verdict...is it me or the bat
Ellen from Indiana
P. Cox on tue 25 may 99
I never liked the plastic bat brand bats I found that the holes wallow
out after a very short time. I much prefer the bats from Creative
Industry the holes don't enlarge and you can use them on wheels with 9
in.and 10 in. spaced pin holes whereas Plastic bats only fit 10 in. I
really don't think using bats allow you to center better but they do
allow you to remove your work from the wheel head much easier without
the chance of warping your piece when you take it off. When I was in
college the studio provided bats made from sink cutouts more often than
not these had been abused and were warped, so getting anything center on
these was a challenge. I invested in my own bats, bought 6 then later
bought 8 more. It made studio life so much easier.
pcox
Suzanne Furman on tue 25 may 99
If the bat helps then possibly the other bats are warped and they would then
certainly create some problems for someone new to clay.........well they are
no fun to throw on if they are warped for anyone.....but do able if you know
how to work around such nonsence.....now there are some plastic square bats
about 7 inches square and they are only around $3.50 a piece.....and it
might be worth investing in a few to take with you and use in class.. or
perhaps purchase a piece of particle board and make a whole mess of
bats.....these would need to be polyurthayned sp??...Lowes has a 4ft x 12ft
particle board that doesnt cost much....and would make 4 good bats.......just
a thought tho.....Suzanne Kraman
Walnut Creek Pottery
Bill Williams on tue 25 may 99
Ellen from Indiana: If I were you, I would go to my supplier and purchase
my own plastic bat. They aren't expensive. I have more trouble with a
plaster bat, because I don't think they are even. I'm one that has to have
my wheel pretty level, or I have a problem. One thing that might
help.........be sure to use the plastic bat on the smooth side. If you use
the rough side, you will have trouble. Connie
-----Original Message-----
From: MR WENDELL R RIDENOUR
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 8:53 AM
Subject: centering for slow learner
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
TWO Whole years..............I can center a little better but still
not as good as I would like...I did notice...when I used a bat called
"plastic bat" I seemed to do better....are all bats the same or is
there a bat that does better than others OR COULD IT BE
ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did notice that we did fight a lot over who was going to use the
only two plastic pats in the school...the teacher always won....we
don't like F's So whats the verdict...is it me or the bat
Ellen from Indiana
Joan & Tom Woodward on wed 26 may 99
Hi Ellen,
Boy do I understand the centering frustration. I went through it for 6
months before asking another teacher to watch me. She did, she made a few
comments, and she showed me a different way to center. Bingo. It's rarely
a problem now. There are several different centering approaches. Don't
know if you've tried more than one. I ended up using the one shown in
Pottery on the Wheel. Good luck!
Joan in Alaska
-----Original Message-----
From: MR WENDELL R RIDENOUR
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 5:53 AM
Subject: centering for slow learner
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
TWO Whole years..............I can center a little better but still
not as good as I would like...I did notice...when I used a bat called
"plastic bat" I seemed to do better....are all bats the same or is
there a bat that does better than others OR COULD IT BE
ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did notice that we did fight a lot over who was going to use the
only two plastic pats in the school...the teacher always won....we
don't like F's So whats the verdict...is it me or the bat
Ellen from Indiana
Chris Schafale on wed 26 may 99
Ellen --
Is it possible that the plastic bats were the only ones that weren't
warped?? I find it much harder to center on a warped bat that
wobbles when I put pressure on the clay. And if the bat is warped
badly enough that it creates a wheelhead that isn't level, forget it!
Maybe you should invest in some plastic bats of your own?
Chris
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> TWO Whole years..............I can center a little better but still
> not as good as I would like...I did notice...when I used a bat called
> "plastic bat" I seemed to do better....are all bats the same or is
> there a bat that does better than others OR COULD IT BE
> ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I did notice that we did fight a lot over who was going to use the
> only two plastic pats in the school...the teacher always won....we
> don't like F's So whats the verdict...is it me or the bat
> Ellen from Indiana
>
>
Light One Candle Pottery
Fuquay-Varina, NC
candle@intrex.net
Alex Wilson on wed 26 may 99
Sorry Ellen, but it's you! Keep practising and don't try so hard, and it will
come.
Keep your elbows down and push with only one hand - the left if European,
using the right hand as a steady and your nose over the centre.
And remember the words of Robert The Bruce, "If at first you don't succeed,
try, try again."
Good luck now,
Alex
Jan Parzybok on wed 26 may 99
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>TWO Whole years..............I can center a little better but still
>not as good as I would like...I did notice...when I used a bat called
>"plastic bat" I seemed to do better....are all bats the same or is
>there a bat that does better than others OR COULD IT BE
>ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>I did notice that we did fight a lot over who was going to use the
>only two plastic pats in the school...the teacher always won....we
>don't like F's So whats the verdict...is it me or the bat
>Ellen from Indiana
Ellen, it's a shame you spent two years learning how to center. I would
recommend a new teacher.
Check out the beginner videos at The Pottershop in Needham MA :
SBRANFPOT@aol.com
Stephen carries a wide selection of great books and videos for great prices.
Jan
tgschs10 on wed 26 may 99
From the for what its worth department:
I was having trouble with wobbly bats a few months ago. I bought some new
bats and had the same trouble; then someone suggested that I look at the
metal screws and try new ones. Sure enough all my bats work without
wobbling. I've had the wheel for years and the screw heads just wore down
enough to cause problems.
Tom Sawyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Suzanne Furman
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: centering for slow learner
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>If the bat helps then possibly the other bats are warped and they would
then
>certainly create some problems for someone new to clay.........well they
are
>no fun to throw on if they are warped for anyone.....but do able if you
know
>how to work around such nonsence.....now there are some plastic square bats
>about 7 inches square and they are only around $3.50 a piece.....and it
>might be worth investing in a few to take with you and use in class.. or
>perhaps purchase a piece of particle board and make a whole mess of
>bats.....these would need to be polyurthayned sp??...Lowes has a 4ft x 12ft
>particle board that doesnt cost much....and would make 4 good
bats.......just
>a thought tho.....Suzanne Kraman
>Walnut Creek Pottery
>
Rick hugel on wed 26 may 99
I guess everyone has his/her own likes or dislikes about bats. For me,
cutting disks out of plywood and drilling holes half way through to fit the
two studs sticking out of the wheel head does the trick - and I am not too
particular about the quality of plywood that comes my way(it's all free
scrounged stuff). Some people stand at the wheel and throw while others
sit. I sit with my right foot on the wheel pedal and my left on a cinder
block the same height as the pedal. Placing my elbows on my thighs, I
bring my hands together on the clay forming a triangle. The right hand
bears down on the top of the clay and the left on the side - both applying
equal pressure. The clay is centered right away and will not come off the
bat. I suppose it depends on what kind of clay you are using, but if you
can work up some slurry from the clay on to your hands, only a little water
is needed. Once centered, add a little water to your guey hands and wedge
the clay up and down a couple, three times. When compressing the clay on
the third go round, the right hand controls the width of the circumference
of the clay. OH, OH! I forgot, I am in Japan and the wheel is turning
clockwise, so I guess everythng I just said should be reversed for you.
SORRY! There is no need to apply pressure with your hands onto the wheel
head - the only thing you will do is end up with friction burn and it
doesn't do anything toward getting the clay centered. The point of contact
- clay to bat - can not be perfectly squared off and anyway it is the foot
of the piece being made and will be trimmed later. Also, before cutting
the piece off the bat, the contact point is trimmed at a 45 degree angle
with a wooden trimming tool making it perfectly round. The important thing
is having equal pressure on the clay from both hands. Once you bring your
hands down onto the clay with your hands forming the tip of a triangle,
that triangle must be absolutely rigid - any wavering and you are off
center. Equal pressure goes for centering, wedging, opening, and pulling
the clay up. Hope this helps.
Happy throwing,
Rick
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Ellen from Indiana: If I were you, I would go to my supplier and purchase
>my own plastic bat. They aren't expensive. I have more trouble with a
>plaster bat, because I don't think they are even. I'm one that has to have
>my wheel pretty level, or I have a problem. One thing that might
>help.........be sure to use the plastic bat on the smooth side. If you use
>the rough side, you will have trouble. Connie
>-----Original Message-----
>From: MR WENDELL R RIDENOUR
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 8:53 AM
>Subject: centering for slow learner
>
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>TWO Whole years..............I can center a little better but still
>not as good as I would like...I did notice...when I used a bat called
>"plastic bat" I seemed to do better....are all bats the same or is
>there a bat that does better than others OR COULD IT BE
>ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>I did notice that we did fight a lot over who was going to use the
>only two plastic pats in the school...the teacher always won....we
>don't like F's So whats the verdict...is it me or the bat
>Ellen from Indiana
Elca Branman on thu 27 may 99
When I teach people to center, I make a point of telling them NOT to
center the whole piece of clay,but to start at the bottom and center the
part at the base and then move up and center the next inch or so, all the
way to the top.
Its easier to show than describe, but its my pinkie and part of the palm
next to it that does the work and the thumb
rides alon
Your elbows are nailed to your side and your pelvis is as close to the
wheel as you can get it.
Work as dry as you can.
The other important factor to make it easy is to pat the hunk of clay
into a ball and to drop it on the center of the bat,and pat it down and
around to fasten it to the wheelhead.
If theres a problem find ing the center, there's no shame in using a
pencil while the wheel goes around, to make a circle to aim for.
And lastly,most people start by trying to center pieces that are too big
for them.
Start with a 1 or 11/2 lb ball, even if you are a big macho man,because
centering is a sensation, like finding balance on a bicycle;once you know
how, you can move up to rupture- making weights in clay.
Easy does it.
Don't fight the clay; be one with it.
Elca.. at home in Sarasota,Florida,USA
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Erin Hayes on thu 27 may 99
Hi All!
Joan recently posted this comment:
"Boy do I understand the centering frustration. I went through it for 6
months before asking another teacher to watch me. She did, she made a few
comments, and she showed me a different way to center."
It's funny how centering problems are usually the result of what turn out to
be relatively minor things like posture, leverage, wheel speed or hand
position. It usually doesn't take long to pinpoint a problem and correct it,
as long as you can give the student direct attention. (Not always easy in a
big class.)
I had a student this quarter who was having a horrible time centering the
first week. I explained it as many ways as I knew how. I even held his
hands on the clay and centered so he could feel the amount of pressure I was
using.
What finally made sense to him was an idea that struck me as I was sitting
there observing his technique - when he coned the clay up properly, it
reminded me of my brother squeezing the toothpaste from the middle when we
were kids. I told him that analogy and it clicked. He centered properly
the very next try and hasn't had trouble the rest of the quarter. Weird.
Erin.
Veena Raghavan on fri 28 may 99
Ellen,
You've had a lot of advice in response to your posting, so I hope
you won't mind if I add to it. All of what has been said is so true, your
own bats, position, and so on. May I also suggest that you get some books
from the library. You will find that there are many methods of centering,
not just one. I know that, when I teach, I find that students have been
shown one method and cannot seem to center that way, but when I have had
them try different hand positions it has helped them center fairly easily.
It is possible that your problem is not with the bats, but just the
method. Have you tried center straight on the wheelhead without a bat. When
I first get students to learn to center, I suggest that they do not use a
bat. It is a little hard on the hands, but this would show you if it is the
method or the bats. Another point made in a previous posting was surplus
clay around the mound that interfers. I have found this very important. If
you remove all the clay around the mound, there will be no bumps to
interfere with your centering. A clean wheelhead or bat is very important
when you are first learning to center.
The other important thing is to lean well over the wheel and to
anchor your elbows securely, so that your hands are not wobbling around.
You also need to be fairly forceful with the clay, to handle it with
confidence. I also find that it is helpful to press down on the clay with
the wheel turning to anchor it securely, before trying to center it.
Hope some of this is of help. Good luck.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
Tom Wirt on sat 29 may 99
I wandered back in my mind and realized that one of the biggest boosts to my
centrering was whhen I realized that the clay, once you a[pply pressure, is
no longer a solid....it is a liquid. And therein lies the centering secret.
Let the clay do the work. Apply enough pressure tho get the clay flowinjg
(moving) and then just guide it.
I thinkof the clay flowing throught he chunk being centered. When
compressing upward, the clay is flowing first down, and then upward through
the core/center of the mound. When pressing the mound down, the clay is
flowing down through the center and outward at the bottom. I don't know
what the actual flow pattterns are, and have vowed to dye somke clay someday
to find out.
Another way to think of it is that what you are doing is removing all the
high spots. When they are gone the clay is centered.
Hope this Helps.
Tom
gambaru on sun 30 may 99
I must admit that I have not read all the "centering tips" messages so this
may be redundant. When I used to teach I noticed one common error that most
students made. They usually removed pressure from the clay too abruptly and
then the clay that felt near centered had an eccentric wobble. Attack again
then let off the pressure suddenly and the clay is not centered. Use your
body to center, elbow braced into your leg and apply the pressure from your
shoulder. Really feel the clay and respond. Keep trying, because once you
have really got a centered mass of clay you will know how it feels and then
you can get back to that again and again and always. Then the absolute joy
of throwing is yours to experience. MB
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Wirt
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Saturday, May 29, 1999 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: centering for slow learner
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I wandered back in my mind and realized that one of the biggest boosts to
my
>centrering was whhen I realized that the clay, once you a[pply pressure, is
>no longer a solid....it is a liquid. And therein lies the centering
secret.
>Let the clay do the work. Apply enough pressure tho get the clay flowinjg
>(moving) and then just guide it.
>
>I thinkof the clay flowing throught he chunk being centered. When
>compressing upward, the clay is flowing first down, and then upward through
>the core/center of the mound. When pressing the mound down, the clay is
>flowing down through the center and outward at the bottom. I don't know
>what the actual flow pattterns are, and have vowed to dye somke clay
someday
>to find out.
>
>Another way to think of it is that what you are doing is removing all the
>high spots. When they are gone the clay is centered.
>
>Hope this Helps.
>
>Tom
>
Sharon R Pemberton on sun 30 may 99
When I teach my students to center, I use a Newton's 3rd Law approach and
also tell them that when they can put their hands on the clay, top and side,
and not let them move, the clay has no other place to go other than the
center.
Pax,
Pug
Barney Adams on sun 30 may 99
Hi,
I have no problem centering. I think the biggest obstacle is in the
mind. I agree with Mel dont muscle 20lbs when you can do 5lbs
at a time. I can and have centered 20lbs but I tend toward 10lb
size. It's a nice workable size for my hands. I'm pretty strong but it
is'nt strengh that centers it's stubbornness. I early decided that I was'nt
going to give into the clay. Other people I've talked with agree that
centering is difficult until you get IT. Then you dont really even think
about the centering. You get too busy fighting cracks and getting the clay
to form how you want it.
Barney
Tom Wirt wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I wandered back in my mind and realized that one of the biggest boosts to my
> centrering was whhen I realized that the clay, once you a[pply pressure, is
> no longer a solid....it is a liquid. And therein lies the centering secret.
> Let the clay do the work. Apply enough pressure tho get the clay flowinjg
> (moving) and then just guide it.
>
> I thinkof the clay flowing throught he chunk being centered. When
> compressing upward, the clay is flowing first down, and then upward through
> the core/center of the mound. When pressing the mound down, the clay is
> flowing down through the center and outward at the bottom. I don't know
> what the actual flow pattterns are, and have vowed to dye somke clay someday
> to find out.
>
> Another way to think of it is that what you are doing is removing all the
> high spots. When they are gone the clay is centered.
>
> Hope this Helps.
>
> Tom
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