Wendy Rosen on sat 10 jul 99
The best thing a "union" could do is to help identify appropriate prices for
production work... as long as the Mackenzie crowd keeps our prices
depressed no one will make a living at this. The glass artists have
created a "cartel"... it's time to get clay artists thinking on the
same frequency.
I understand that Mackenzie has given up signing his work because customers
will buy his work for it's value over his "friends" in his gallery/shop...
all this does is keep EVERYONE's prices depressed!!!! This is CRAZY.
Let's start doing what glass artists do... price fix production ware!!!
Give me your prices on these items and I'll create a chart showing the
range for each type of product... RETAIL prices only... it's understood
that WHOLESALE will be half of the retail price. If you have a
"reason" for your work to have a higher price
please state it (cut-outs, feet, surface embellishment etc...)
Can't sell your work for full price? Maybe you need a hangtag
brochure or other "device" to help move your work faster.
Shops/galleries need to "turn" your production work four times
each year!
I watch new clay artists new to wholesaling... some of them
think that they have to come into the market with lower
prices... standards will help prevent from lowering their
prices too much!
Wendy
------------------------------------------------------------
ITEM RETAIL PRICE # units sold this year
------------------------------------------------------------
Simple Mug w/ handle $
Tea Cup (no saucer) $
Salad Bowl $
Tureen $
10" plate $
12-14" platter $
Tea Pot 8" high $
Vase 12" high $
Wendy Rosen
The Rosen Group
AmericanStyle Magazine
http://www.americanstyle.com
The Buyers Markets of American Craft
Niche Magazine and Awards Programs
Artist Mentor Program
Market Insider Newsletter (FREE)
Emerging Artist Internships/Scholarships
Craft Business Institute
http://www.americancraft.com
3000 Chestnut Ave #304
Baltimore, Maryland 21211
410.889-3093
410.243.7089 fax
**************************************************************************
Jan Parzybok on sun 11 jul 99
>
>ITEM RETAIL PRICE # units sold this year
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Simple Mug w/ handle $12 100
>
>Tea Cup (no saucer) $3 25
>
>Salad Bowl $30 5
>
>Tureen $100 2
>
>10" plate $25 14
>
>12-14" platter $44 6
>
>Tea Pot 8" high $50 10
>
>Vase 12" high $24 4
>
>
>
>
>
>Wendy Rosen
>The Rosen Group
>
>AmericanStyle Magazine
>http://www.americanstyle.com
>
>The Buyers Markets of American Craft
>Niche Magazine and Awards Programs
>Artist Mentor Program
>Market Insider Newsletter (FREE)
>Emerging Artist Internships/Scholarships
>Craft Business Institute
>http://www.americancraft.com
>
>3000 Chestnut Ave #304
>Baltimore, Maryland 21211
>410.889-3093
>410.243.7089 fax
>
>**************************************************************************
Nick Zappa on sun 11 jul 99
What exactly is the Mackenzie crowd? I believe we are in a free enterprise
system in the U.S. If my overhead is higher or lower than someone in another
state how could anyone dictate the price of my work. Next thing we will be
told where, when, how, etc. to market our Pottery. Also, is my 30 years
experience perhaps worthy of a different pricing tier than a novice or part
time potter? This has been our only means of income for 25 yrs. If the
market will respond to higher prices, great. But if it is poor quality and
poor craftsmanship is that legitimate as well? I know in this day there is a
push to make everything equal regardless of high or low standards, one other
thing, WHO is going to make the RULES? Someone who is a maker, buyer or
seller? ~ Nick Zappa~
----- Original Message -----
From: Wendy Rosen
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 8:27 AM
Subject: pricing standards...
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> The best thing a "union" could do is to help identify appropriate prices
for
> production work... as long as the Mackenzie crowd keeps our prices
> depressed no one will make a living at this. The glass artists have
> created a "cartel"... it's time to get clay artists thinking on the
> same frequency.
>
> I understand that Mackenzie has given up signing his work because
customers
> will buy his work for it's value over his "friends" in his gallery/shop...
> all this does is keep EVERYONE's prices depressed!!!! This is CRAZY.
> Let's start doing what glass artists do... price fix production ware!!!
>
> Give me your prices on these items and I'll create a chart showing the
> range for each type of product... RETAIL prices only... it's understood
> that WHOLESALE will be half of the retail price. If you have a
> "reason" for your work to have a higher price
> please state it (cut-outs, feet, surface embellishment etc...)
>
> Can't sell your work for full price? Maybe you need a hangtag
> brochure or other "device" to help move your work faster.
> Shops/galleries need to "turn" your production work four times
> each year!
>
> I watch new clay artists new to wholesaling... some of them
> think that they have to come into the market with lower
> prices... standards will help prevent from lowering their
> prices too much!
>
> Wendy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ITEM RETAIL PRICE # units sold this year
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Simple Mug w/ handle $
>
> Tea Cup (no saucer) $
>
> Salad Bowl $
>
> Tureen $
>
> 10" plate $
>
> 12-14" platter $
>
> Tea Pot 8" high $
>
> Vase 12" high $
>
>
>
>
>
> Wendy Rosen
> The Rosen Group
>
> AmericanStyle Magazine
> http://www.americanstyle.com
>
> The Buyers Markets of American Craft
> Niche Magazine and Awards Programs
> Artist Mentor Program
> Market Insider Newsletter (FREE)
> Emerging Artist Internships/Scholarships
> Craft Business Institute
> http://www.americancraft.com
>
> 3000 Chestnut Ave #304
> Baltimore, Maryland 21211
> 410.889-3093
> 410.243.7089 fax
>
> **************************************************************************
>
Gregory D Lamont on mon 12 jul 99
At 10:27 AM 7/10/99 -0400, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>The best thing a "union" could do is to help identify appropriate prices for
>production work... as long as the Mackenzie crowd keeps our prices
>depressed no one will make a living at this. The glass artists have
>created a "cartel"... it's time to get clay artists thinking on the
>same frequency.
>
>I understand that Mackenzie has given up signing his work because customers
>will buy his work for it's value over his "friends" in his gallery/shop...
>all this does is keep EVERYONE's prices depressed!!!! This is CRAZY.
>Let's start doing what glass artists do... price fix production ware!!!
>
>Give me your prices on these items and I'll create a chart showing the
>range for each type of product... RETAIL prices only... it's understood
>that WHOLESALE will be half of the retail price. If you have a
>"reason" for your work to have a higher price
>please state it (cut-outs, feet, surface embellishment etc...)
>
>Can't sell your work for full price? Maybe you need a hangtag
>brochure or other "device" to help move your work faster.
>Shops/galleries need to "turn" your production work four times
>each year!
>
>I watch new clay artists new to wholesaling... some of them
>think that they have to come into the market with lower
>prices... standards will help prevent from lowering their
>prices too much!
>
>Wendy
>
>Wendy Rosen
>The Rosen Group
>
>AmericanStyle Magazine
>http://www.americanstyle.com
>
>The Buyers Markets of American Craft
>Niche Magazine and Awards Programs
>Artist Mentor Program
>Market Insider Newsletter (FREE)
>Emerging Artist Internships/Scholarships
>Craft Business Institute
>http://www.americancraft.com
>
>3000 Chestnut Ave #304
>Baltimore, Maryland 21211
>410.889-3093
>410.243.7089 fax
>
>**************************************************************************
Hi Wendy,
As a relative newcomer to selling my pottery--and attempting to do so in
central Iowa, not exactly a hotbed of fine craft appreciators/buyers--I
think this idea is terrific. I have my wares priced at what the director
of the fine craft gallery where I sell my work thought it was worth/taking
into account what she thought the local market would bear. Some things
have sold well, others are moving very slowly at the prices shown below.
Anything over about $25 encounters some price resistance unless a holiday
like Christmas or Mothers' Day is approaching. My mugs do well at $12-14
all year long. I recently completed a commission of a large pitcher for a
church's baptismal font for $125 and they didn't bat an eye. Perhaps I
could have gotten more??? It will be interesting to see what others get
for their work in their local areas. It would be helpful submitters would
include their info about the area they sell in. A well-known potter who
used to live here in Ames found he could sell a porcelain teapot in Aspen,
CO for about 10 times what he could sell the same teapot for here. It
would also be helpful if the above list of item types could be expanded to
include other items that are commonly made by production potters.
-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>ITEM RETAIL PRICE # units sold this year
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Simple Mug w/ handle $ 12 (avg. for 12 oz.)
>Tea Cup (no saucer) $10 (avg. for 8 oz.)
>
>Salad Bowl $ 20 (8" dia.)
>
>Tureen $ 85 (3 qt.)
>
>10" plate $25
>
>12-14" platter $ 35
>
>Tea Pot 8" high $ 55
>
>Vase 12" high $ 30
>
>
Greg Lamont
gdlamont@iastate.edu
http://www.ourwebpage.net/greglamont/
3011 Northwood Drive
Ames, IA 50010-4750
(515) 233-3442
Francis Toms on mon 12 jul 99
------------------
=3EI believe we are in a free enterprise system in the U.S.
Not to be ideological, Nick, but I have to point out this is a persistent,
fondly-cherished American myth.
The truth is, major companies/industries have long lobbied for - and =
obtained
- laws that give them considerably greater advantages in doing business than
would otherwise fall to them in a truly free market, aka =22free =
enterprise=22.
Last time I checked, finagling such advantages from the government - called
'lobbying' - was a multi-million dollar industry.
Can you say Subsidies... Guaranteed Prices ... selective Tax Breaks??
Let's get it into our heads: there is no free market in the real world....
It's every trade group and business for itself (under the law), and we
potters stand aside at our peril.
Francis Toms
(in California's sizzling Central Valley ... time to jump in the creek=21)
=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96==
96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96=96
In a message dated 7/11/99 5:29:14 PM, njzappa=40rmi.net writes:
=3EWhat exactly is the Mackenzie crowd? I believe we are in a free =
enterprise
=3Esystem in the U.S. If my overhead is higher or lower than someone in =
another
=3Estate how could anyone dictate the price of my work. Next thing we will
=3Ebe
=3Etold where, when, how, etc. to market our Pottery. Also, is my 30 years
=3Eexperience perhaps worthy of a different pricing tier than a novice or
=3Epart
=3Etime potter? This has been our only means of income for 25 yrs. If the
=3Emarket will respond to higher prices, great. But if it is poor quality
=3Eand
=3Epoor craftsmanship is that legitimate as well? I know in this day there
=3Eis a
=3Epush to make everything equal regardless of high or low standards, one
=3Eother
=3Ething, WHO is going to make the RULES? Someone who is a maker, buyer or
=3Eseller? =7E Nick Zappa=7E
Tom Wirt on mon 12 jul 99
Subject: pricing standards...
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> The best thing a "union" could do is to help identify appropriate prices
for
> production work... as long as the Mackenzie crowd keeps our prices
> depressed no one will make a living at this. The glass artists have
> created a "cartel"... it's time to get clay artists thinking on the
> same frequency.
>
> I understand that Mackenzie has given up signing his work because
customers
> will buy his work for it's value over his "friends" in his gallery/shop...
> all this does is keep EVERYONE's prices depressed!!!! This is CRAZY.
> Let's start doing what glass artists do... price fix production ware!!!
>
> Give me your prices on these items and I'll create a chart showing the
> range for each type of product... RETAIL prices only... it's understood
> that WHOLESALE will be half of the retail price. If you have a
> "reason" for your work to have a higher price
> please state it (cut-outs, feet, surface embellishment etc...)
>
> Can't sell your work for full price? Maybe you need a hangtag
> brochure or other "device" to help move your work faster.
> Shops/galleries need to "turn" your production work four times
> each year!
>
> I watch new clay artists new to wholesaling... some of them
> think that they have to come into the market with lower
> prices... standards will help prevent from lowering their
> prices too much!
>
> Wendy
>
Hi Wendy.... A few comments re: my opinions on pricing. I know you've been
banging away for a long time that potters should be raising prices. ANd
comparing what we do to what has been done in the glass world.
There are maybe some similarities....but probably more differences.
Ultimately, no matter what we do, the customer/user has the final say. I'd
certainly be interested in hearing how the glass cartel works.
For starter, most glass is decorative....a category that even in clay
garners a higher price. As soon as you give a product a functionality, you
suddenly have various alternative products that can serve the same
function....something the customer puts into his/her price/value
consideration. More important than income and price...we would need to look
at net income and profitability as a percent. Are potters really making
less than glass people for given gross incomes? Do we care?
I don't know about others and/or glass workers, but I get a great deal of
satisfaction to know that our work is used by people in their everyday
lives....and that everyday use has a maximum price the customer is willing
to "risk" in the using. If I sell a plate for $15...it may get used
regularly. But if it's a $50 plate, I'll bet most folks would have it
sitting on a plate shelf. So the customers willingness to pay based on risk
if broken figures in.
>From conversations with glass makers, many of their costs are significantly
higher than a potters.....from the initial furnaces and tools, to their
energy costs. Glass kilns have to be kept at temp constantly and then the
ware is fired down (annealed).
I suspect, don't know, that more glass makers, because of the startup and
running costs, make most or all of their living from glass. Many potters,
maybe the majority, have a second income themselves or in the
family....and when someone is not making a full living from the craft, there
is a tendency to price lower.
The best price "cartel" I've found is to wander shows and compare others
prices. We constantly test price ceilings by raising a price on an
individual piece until the sales stop, and then back off from there. This
will depend on the show, the type of work you do, economic times and a
myriad of other factors. Once upon a time we were the cheap guys on the
block...but the work was a beginners and priced accordingly. If I had
priced with the experienced potters, I wouldn't still be potting. I doubt
seriously our prices drove anyone out of the business. The customers know
what they're buying (for the most part). If you doubt this, look at what
you've got left after a good show.....mostly the lesser pots.
Put me down also for the public education as being the real way to raise
income. Rosen Group could easily help this (for all craftspeople...not just
potters) and help their shops at the same time....generic materials,
imprintable on why handcrafted is better!
As to the MacKenzie crowd...most of his protege's are at the high end of the
spectrum. MacKenzie's philosophy is that simple pots for everyday use
should be affordable....and I guess I subscribe to this philosophy. But Mac
and his philosophy in no way depresses the market. Probably over 95% of
pottery buyers have never heard of him.
So...as to pricing.....I would suspect everyone on this list prices about as
high as they think they can get away with....except Mel, of course.....at
least those of us making a living at it surely do. And pricing, as has been
pointed out, is not just all the potters getting together and saying, we'll
charge $50 per plate. There are many factors from the producers end, and
many from the customers end....and ultimately it depends on t he work and
what it will be used for..
I would also be very interested in hearing what the shop and gallery owners
would say in response to the price questionnaire.
Thanks ....I fell better now.
Tom Wirt
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> All work is straight functional...little embellishment or trick stuff.
Glazes fairly standard and poured, dipped and squirted.
> ITEM RETAIL PRICE # units sold this year
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Simple Mug w/ handle $10-12 500 (In shop or
gallery-$18-20_
>
> Tea Cup (no saucer) $10 100 In S ro G - $12-14
>
> Salad Bowl $8-12 400 (single
serving)SorG $12-14
>
> Tureen $45 150 S or g
$65-75
>
> 10" plate $15 300 s OR g
$20-25
>
> 12-14" platter $65-100 50 s OR g
$70-100
>
> Tea Pot 8" high $55-75 45 S or G
$70 - 100
>
> Vase 12" high $30 100 S or G
$30 - 40
>
>
Tom Wirt on tue 13 jul 99
Subject: pricing standards...
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> I watch new clay artists new to wholesaling... some of them
> think that they have to come into the market with lower
> prices... standards will help prevent from lowering their
> prices too much!
>
> Wendy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
One additional thought on pricing, Wendy. Another factor in the price/value
mix in the customers mind is the price of alternative products. Clay lends
itself quite easily to mass production compared to glass. There are also
more alternative products available....metal, plastic, glass, wood, leather,
paper, cane,etc. that can have the same or similar function. These
alternatives, as I noted, all influence our pricing.
Tom
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