Dr.Cappiello@mindspring.com on thu 12 aug 99
------------------
Hi everyone=21
I've been making some pretty nice relief tiles for floors, tables, etc. My =
only
problem is I'm having an awful time grouting them. I align the tiles and =
set
them in mastic with about 1/4 to 1/2 inch space left for grout. When =
grouting
it is very hard to keep the grout out of the relief pattern. Once there, it
takes forever to clean off - especially if the glaze is matte.
I tried putting the grout in a container and squirting it through a small
opening, I've even tried a frosting bag to get it directly into the spaces
between the tiles. The problem is the sanded grout I use (for minimum =
shrinkage)
is too thick to fit through the openings - it clogs up immediately. I've =
tried
=22spooning=22 it in the cracks, but it seems like the only way to get it =
down in
those little spaces is to really work it with your fingers or tool and =
=22really
working it=22 unfortunately =22really spreads it=22 and makes a mess.
I'ver tried =22covering=22 the face if the tile while tring to smear the =
grout in
between but this is very tedious - and almost as time consuming as cleaning =
the
grout out of the relief pattern.
Does anyone have ANY ideas? (I checked the archives and haven't seen this
addressed before)
Thanks a bunch
Annie
P.S. Please reply directly to me (dr.cappiello=40mindspring.com) - I cannot=
get
the whole clayart list at work where my e-mail is
Thanks=21
CINDI ANDERSON on fri 13 aug 99
I've done grouting several times. You spread the grout all over the
tiles because it's the only way to press it in there really good. After
30-90 minutes of set up time, you start wiping. You have to wipe down
again and again. It helps to have a scratchy pad also; my sponge had a
scratcy back. I'm sure your tiles are even hard to clean than flat
ones, and sometimes you think flat ones will never get clean. I would
use a toothbrush or something to get in the deep parts.
Cindi
Dr.Cappiello@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> Hi everyone!
>
> I've been making some pretty nice relief tiles for floors, tables, etc. My onl
> problem is I'm having an awful time grouting them. I align the tiles and set
> them in mastic with about 1/4 to 1/2 inch space left for grout. When grouting
> it is very hard to keep the grout out of the relief pattern. Once there, it
> takes forever to clean off - especially if the glaze is matte.
>
> I tried putting the grout in a container and squirting it through a small
> opening, I've even tried a frosting bag to get it directly into the spaces
> between the tiles. The problem is the sanded grout I use (for minimum shrinkag
> is too thick to fit through the openings - it clogs up immediately. I've trie
> "spooning" it in the cracks, but it seems like the only way to get it down in
> those little spaces is to really work it with your fingers or tool and "really
> working it" unfortunately "really spreads it" and makes a mess.
>
> I'ver tried "covering" the face if the tile while tring to smear the grout in
> between but this is very tedious - and almost as time consuming as cleaning th
> grout out of the relief pattern.
>
> Does anyone have ANY ideas? (I checked the archives and haven't seen this
> addressed before)
>
> Thanks a bunch
>
> Annie
>
> P.S. Please reply directly to me (dr.cappiello@mindspring.com) - I cannot get
> the whole clayart list at work where my e-mail is
> Thanks!
Joanne L. Van Bezooyen on fri 13 aug 99
Annie,
The problem is that you have the wrong kind of grout. Sanded grout is for 1/4"
1" spaces between tiles...ish. You need a non-sanded grout....very smooth and
creamy....for narrow gaps between tiles. Tubing it between will be easier. The
other option is to design your tiles to space them 1/4 " apart.
Joanne in Tucson
Dr.Cappiello@mindspring.com wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> Hi everyone!
>
> I've been making some pretty nice relief tiles for floors, tables, etc. My onl
> problem is I'm having an awful time grouting them. I align the tiles and set
> them in mastic with about 1/4 to 1/2 inch space left for grout. When grouting
> it is very hard to keep the grout out of the relief pattern. Once there, it
> takes forever to clean off - especially if the glaze is matte.
>
> I tried putting the grout in a container and squirting it through a small
> opening, I've even tried a frosting bag to get it directly into the spaces
> between the tiles. The problem is the sanded grout I use (for minimum shrinkag
> is too thick to fit through the openings - it clogs up immediately. I've trie
> "spooning" it in the cracks, but it seems like the only way to get it down in
> those little spaces is to really work it with your fingers or tool and "really
> working it" unfortunately "really spreads it" and makes a mess.
>
> I'ver tried "covering" the face if the tile while tring to smear the grout in
> between but this is very tedious - and almost as time consuming as cleaning th
> grout out of the relief pattern.
>
> Does anyone have ANY ideas? (I checked the archives and haven't seen this
> addressed before)
>
> Thanks a bunch
>
> Annie
>
> P.S. Please reply directly to me (dr.cappiello@mindspring.com) - I cannot get
> the whole clayart list at work where my e-mail is
> Thanks!
Linda Blossom on fri 13 aug 99
Hello,
I wanted to respond to your grout question but first wanted to ask if you
are using mastic for setting tiles on the floor? The reason for using
thinset is to fill the voids that may be there and to create a good setting
bed for the tiles. Mastic is not a good idea on the floor or in water
sensitive areas. The grout issue.- if you make relief tiles, you will just
need to get a toothbrush, a chopstick or any tool you can and plan on a lot
of work. If the matt glaze is a problem, try sealing the tile first to make
it easier to clean. Sealer's Choice does not change the character of the
glaze as some do. For putting the grout on, sometimes I try to just get it
as close to the space as I can, rather than just dumping in onto the surface
but there is not shortcut that I know of. I have taped the surface of tiles
with masking tape to make it less of a clean up problem but with relief I
think it is harder. I would think that latex would be torn up by the grout.
Let me know if anyone offers a miracle cure.
Linda Blossom
2366 Slaterville Rd
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-539-7912
blossom@twcny.rr.com
I've been making some pretty nice relief tiles for floors, tables, etc. My
only
problem is I'm having an awful time grouting them. I align the tiles and
set
them in mastic with about 1/4 to 1/2 inch space left for grout. When
grouting
it is very hard to keep the grout out of the relief pattern. Once there, it
takes forever to clean off - especially if the glaze is matte.
I tried putting the grout in a container and squirting it through a small
opening, I've even tried a frosting bag to get it directly into the spaces
between the tiles. The problem is the sanded grout I use (for minimum
shrinkage)
is too thick to fit through the openings - it clogs up immediately. I've
tried
"spooning" it in the cracks, but it seems like the only way to get it down
in
those little spaces is to really work it with your fingers or tool and
"really
working it" unfortunately "really spreads it" and makes a mess.
I'ver tried "covering" the face if the tile while tring to smear the grout
in
between but this is very tedious - and almost as time consuming as cleaning
the
grout out of the relief pattern.
Does anyone have ANY ideas? (I checked the archives and haven't seen this
addressed before)
Thanks a bunch
Annie
P.S. Please reply directly to me (dr.cappiello@mindspring.com) - I cannot
get
the whole clayart list at work where my e-mail is
Thanks!
Lesley Alexander on sat 14 aug 99
Annie, why not put plastic on your tiles and tape it down around the edges
with masking tape? Good luck. Lesley
Janet Kaiser on sat 14 aug 99
------------------
This is a problem very dear to our hearts... We will be starting on Phase I =
of
The International Potters Path in November and have the added problem of
different sorts and sizes of tiles. Glazed and unglazed, with and without
profile, thick and thin (although we requested 1 cm thick).
After carefully considering the options, we have opted to set the tiles in
cement onto paving stones so they can be levelled and leave approx. 1/4 inch
max. spaces between the tiles. (This will vary because of different tile
sizes...Hummmmm). The paving stones will then be laid in on a solid =
foundation,
again with 1/4 to 1/2 gaps.
We will then use dry grouting which can be brushed into the spaces then
=22watered=22. Using a fine hand spray small areas can be worked and then =
any smears
wiped quickly away. We have used this method successfully before, so there =
is
not reason it should not work for The Path, although approx. 5,000 tiles and=
50
square metres is a challenge compared to the small area at home=21
One basic tip: only attempt small areas at a time. As soon as the grout is =
not
longer =22wet=22 but before it is really =22dry=22 and therefore set, it is =
fairly
simple to =22polish=22 off the excess on the tiles. On gritty tiles, this =
polish is
best done with a nail brush. Smoother tiles need a cloth to wipe away all =
trace
of the grout. Relief tiles with a smooth or glazed surface will probably =
need
the nail brush followed by the cloth treatment. Blow off the resultant dust =
and
count on using several cloths...
We have many different grouting products here in the UK, but watch out for
indoor and outdoor only grout, as well as for the maximum recommended =
spacing.
Some can only be used on narrow spaces, others up to 1/2 inch maximum =
(rarely
above). Get it wrong and the grout will start to fall out after a few =
months=21
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt=21
Hope this helps
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art, Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales
Home of The International Potters Path
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk In need of another 4583 tiles from around=
the
World=21
EMAIL: postbox=40the-coa.org.uk
Larry Phillips on sat 14 aug 99
Dr.Cappiello@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> I've been making some pretty nice relief tiles for floors, tables, etc. My onl
> problem is I'm having an awful time grouting them. I align the tiles and set
> them in mastic with about 1/4 to 1/2 inch space left for grout. When grouting
> it is very hard to keep the grout out of the relief pattern. Once there, it
> takes forever to clean off - especially if the glaze is matte.
My first thought was to use a latex resist, but then thought it would
be too fragile. My next thought was to use a similar substance, but more
resistant to mechanical stress. How about mold-making rubber? You should
be able to cover the entire face of the tile, allowing it to dry fully,
then set the tile, grout with abandon, then peel the rubber off.
This assumes that the tiles you make don't grab the rubber with too
many undercuts or small pores. If you consider this, please try a few
typical (but expendable) tiles first.
Good luck.
> P.S. Please reply directly to me (dr.cappiello@mindspring.com) - I cannot get
> the whole clayart list at work where my e-mail is
> Thanks!
Copy sent directly. I think it's a good idea to post to the list,
though, because it's a good question.
--
I want to die quietly in my sleep, like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror, like his passengers.
http://cr347197-a.surrey1.bc.wave.home.com/larry/
Pancioli on sat 14 aug 99
I have used masking tape to cover the relief tile face when grouting.
It works.
Diana
tadlock on sat 14 aug 99
Greetings Doc.,
I too work in relief tiles and I've found several ways of getting grout
into the correct grooves. I've also tried the frosting bag trick to no
avail, however you can get a similar type bag from a home improvement place
(Lowes, Home Depot, etc.) that is made for filling in grout this way. Also,
if your pieces are backed on a rigid enough surface and won't be flexing
you can thin down the grout to make it flow easier. Another thing to do is
take an old caulk container and a caulk gun and squirt it into the cracks.
You simply go back over it using a tool to push it more into the voids and
recesses. This tool can be anything that will work. I've used anything from
clay tools to the ends of paintbrushes. Finally, the last thing that I've
done was as follows: I mounted my tiles to concrete board, allowed that to
setup, then I took some very wet grout and covered the entire piece. Next,
using a very wet (and I mean dripping wet) sponge I wiped the grout off the
areas that I didn't want it. By adding the extra water from the sponge I
was able to use a stiff brush to get rid of all of the excess grout. I put
the piece in a place where it could sit undisturbed and allowed it to dry
for two days. The final thing that I did was mount the concrete board to
3/4 in. plywood to hang it. The piece has been done for nearly 5 years and
hasn't had any cracking or other problems. Hope that this helps at least
some.
Brett
Linda Blossom on sat 14 aug 99
>Annie,
>The problem is that you have the wrong kind of grout. Sanded grout is for
1/4"
>1" spaces between tiles...ish. You need a non-sanded grout....very smooth
and
>creamy....for narrow gaps between tiles. Tubing it between will be easier.
The
>other option is to design your tiles to space them 1/4 " apart.
I disagree with this post. Sanded grout can be used in almost any
situation. It is stronger and better than unsanded, in my opinion. I have
used sanded grout in very tiny grout lines and dislike the chalkiness of the
unsanded grout sometimes referred to as wall grout. I often grout lines
that are 1/8 to 3/16 and would never consider unsanded grout.
Linda Blossom
2366 Slaterville Rd
Ithaca, NY 14850
607-539-7912
blossom@twcny.rr.com
>
AKitchens on sun 15 aug 99
No one has brought this up yet so heres my question:
Is the design enhanced by leaving the grout in the details of the tile?
If it is then leave it in. I recently saw some tiles made by a friend of
mine that had added lines to hold the grout in the design thereby adding
another color into the finished design. It's kind of a "coloring outside
of the lines" approach, but it may solve your dilemma. Otherwise use a
wet, hard bristled tooth brush on the final scrubs after the grout lines
have set up a bit. Don't forget the final rinse of the tiles should be a
vinegar-water mixture, to get all the grout film completely off.
Nan Kitchens
P.S. Use thinset to set the tiles.
Dr.Cappiello@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> I've been making some pretty nice relief tiles for floors, tables,
etc.
My only
> problem is I'm having an awful time grouting them. I align the tiles
and set
> them in mastic with about 1/4 to 1/2 inch space left for grout. When
grouting
> it is very hard to keep the grout out of the relief pattern. Once
there, it
> takes forever to clean off - especially if the glaze is matte.
Stephen Mills on mon 16 aug 99
Being by nature lazy, the method I use for grouting tiles is to put the
mixed up grout in a smallish heavy duty poly bag, close up the open end
tightly, snip off a corner at the other end, and squeeze out the grout
into the gap in the manner of a cake decorators piping bag, and smooth
with a damp rubber gloved finger.
Steve
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
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