elizabeth priddy on fri 13 aug 99
its an interesting question and deserves an
interesting answer...
but first: I didn't get the original response
quoted below, just the "re:10 YEN BOWL MESSAGE"
in lieu of the interesting answer to your thought
provoking question, here's mine...
I wish I cared about tea ceremony, but as I do not
ritualisticly drink tea, neither bowl has
true value for me. If they were truly identical,
I would value them equally, although surely not at the
1000 dollar price.
I might be willing to pay the 1000 to work with the
master for a week and watch him make the tea bowls.
*tangent alert!*
I haven't seen much art ever, pottery or otherwise,
that is worth 1000 dollars to me. I have seen ideas
and people worth millions. Art worth more than 1000
has no place near my 90# Lab's tail. And since the
tail isn't leaving my house, that art can't come in.
(I know some people who would give my dog for the
1000 dollar pot, and they are stupid, IMHO.)
fer shure there is probably evidence that the master
made one and the novice the other. But only another
master would be able to feel the difference. And even
then, it probably wouldn't matter with regard to the
functionality of the cup. Perhaps the only one who
could really place value on them might be a geisha.
Masters make crap, too. They just have the audacity to
slap a thousand dollar price tag on it and a manager
to locate the fool to pay it.
*tangent alert!*
I am not particularly enamoured by Japanese culture,
so sometimes I feel out of place in the discussions
of shino and tea bowls et cetera. But I do run my
studio much like a dojo, with me acting as sensei and
also as captain, monitoring practice and enforcing
discipline. It works for me and my students. I have
a clear understanding of several different pottery
studio cultures and have blended them all to create
an environment I work well in.
Back to the value of the two bowls, though: I think
that the value of an object lies in the use of the
object. If it is a very good tea bowl, it does not
matter who made it. On the other hand, I have a pot
thrown by Nell Graves of Seagrove North Carolina that
you could not buy from me, it is that special. And I
would not expect anyone to understand why I value it
so highly. I explain in an essay on my philosophy
page of my website. But you wouldn't be able to pick
it from my shelf as the most valuable one I own. I
think we are all like this, though. Pots only aquire
value beyond their usefulness by experience and
association, so perhaps to someone who knows the
master tea bowl maker in question, it would be worth
knowing which is which, and the one worth the
thousand and the other worthless.
And that's what I really think... sometimes my friend hears me talking and says
tell us what you REALLY think...".
And sometimes I even bother my own fine self...
but YOU asked!
---
Elizabeth Priddy
I speak from sincerity and experience, not authority...
email: epriddy@usa.net
website: www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:50:09 Don & Isao Morrill wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>At , you wrote:
>>At 11:49 8/11/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>>Elizabeth -- Thanks for the amplification! My arms are wrapping around a
>>>bit better now...But then, I also sometimes get hung up on "understanding";
>>>sometimes I forget that I don't necessarily have to.
>>> I may as well put a "fluff" question to you, as I've enjoyed reading
>>>your inputs for a while now...I guess it's a spin-off of "art" and
>>>"originality" issues: Two tea bowls, with no signature, are sitting
>>>side-by-side; one tea bowl looks as if it could've been made by a deranged
>>>hod-carrier but, in fact, is made by a famous artist and commands a
>>>thousand-dollar price; the other tea bowl is, in fact, made by a deranged
>>>hod-carrier as his first artistic offering; they're all but identical.
>>> - Is the first intrinsically more valuable than the other?
>>> - fer sher, are there subtle, but definitive, signs that one, in fact
>>>was produced by a "master"?
>>> I'm not being snide here, elizabeth, honest!..well...
>>>This has been kicking around in my cranium for a while, even accounting for
>>>differences in style/taste, etc.
>>> Am really curious as to what you and others have to say...Darn! Another
>>>thread?!
>>>
>>>Regards and fuzzies,
>>>
>>>anne & the cats in sequim
>>> Anne, 30 years ago at Myoshinji, I sat with my friend Tanset-su
>an itinerant monk. Saying nothing I showed my friend a bowl I had found on
>the Hanazono dump and for which I had made a wooden cover.
> "What do you think of this ?"
> He replied, " Ah, a 10yen bowl with a 500yen cover. Two
>pieces,2000yen."
> tanset-su saw a relationship between two objects as one. In the
>case of the teabowls in the event the first were broken,who xould say the
>second was not the first? Ten-cents worth of clay and glaze remain
>ten-cents. Don Morrill
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Lee Love on sat 14 aug 99
------------------
I make a dual purpose bowl, based upon the traditional rustic type water
discard bowl used in tea ceremony. I've sold several to serve as
trophies at Akita dog show specialties and as fundraisers for Akita dog
rescue and health fundraising. They are a wonderful water bowl for a
large dog like the Akita..
My joke about these bowls when people ask about price is to say:
=22If you buy one for your dog, I charge =2445.00
If you buy one for tea ceremony, I charge =24145.00=22
Folks always by them for their dogs, even the tea ceremony
practitioners. Z=3B=5E=3E
/(o=5C=A7 Lee In Saint Paul, Minnesota USA =B0
=5Co)/=A7 mailto:Ikiru=40Kami.com ICQ=23 20586182
http://hachiko.com
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