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thrown out for casting

updated fri 3 sep 99

 

David Hendley on wed 1 sep 99

I'll bite, John.
I have a strong opinion on this subject that I know some
people will not agree with.

Clay is pretty unique in that it can be formed and shaped
with your hands.
Try that working with glass, metal, or wood.
So, I count as handmade only ceramic objects that
were made with the hands. This would include handbuilt,
thrown, extruded and manipulated, and even cast and
manipulated objects.
Cast ceramic objects, no matter who made the mold, no
matter how intricately hand-painted, even if clad in gold,
are not handmade.
For you, you say that the finished piece is all that is important.
For me, process is also important.

Don't get me wrong, I immensely admire master moldmakers
and wish I had their knowledge and skill. Likewise for
china painters, but there is a difference between "painted
by...." or "designed by...." and "handmade by...."
Your last paragraph illustrates the point perfectly:

| BTW, I finally decided on making the piece into a limited edition of 35
| pieces. The studio sold 28 pieces in white bisque for $175/ea and 7 pieces
| in gold cladding at $750/ea.

If something is truly handmade, there is a limited
edition of "1". Period.

--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/





----- Original Message -----
From: John Rodgers
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: ego problem and ceramic envy


| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
| With all this discussion about molds vs thrown work, I would like to hear
| any comments as to why and where this negative attitude about molds comes
| from, especially among potters and others whos work is principally in the
| more plastic clays, ie pottery clay as opposed to slipcast clays.
|
| Though I do a good bit of throwing myself, I came into claywork via the
| slipcast route and it was years before I got into thrown and handbuilt
work.
|
| I was practically thrown out of a show in Alaska once because my work was
| slipcast. The jurist, one of Alaska's better known artists, was world
| traveled as an artist, and educated. I would have expected better of him.
| The work was my own, and I had done the original model in wax, made molds
| from it, then slipcast the piece in pure white porcelain. The piece didn't
| even get through the initial review of all entrants into the show. It was
| rejected out of hand. I was told by the jurors assistants that the juror
had
| initially said that such work was not acceptable because it was from
| commercial molds. When the assistants told him who I was, that they knew
| personally of the origins of the work and that it was NOT from commercial
| molds, he then said it was slipcast, and too commercial in nature. The
| assistants didn't argue. The piece did not get entered, much less judged.
|
| All this caused me a great deal of consternation and angst. It was my
first
| effort at that level. To be rejected was one thing, but for the reasons
| given were quite another.
|
| I later entered the piece in another show, with another juror. The piece
was
| allowed entry, but didn't place, and that was O.K. At the jurors critique,
| he also had my work, even though it had not placed. The juror reviewed
| various aspects of the different works. All manner of hand built work, and
| thrown work was reviewed. And of course there were a lot of ooohhh's and
| aaahhh's, and clapping. Then he turned to my work. Though it did not
place,
| it was selected for the critique because it was so different from anything
| else there. The methods were so different. Fist time I ever heard a juror
| give acknowledgement and credit for slipcast work. He admonished potters
not
| to be so proud of the their thrown works, because in the same way a mold
| is to a slip cast piece, a wheel is to a thrown piece....both are simply
| mechanisms to aid the artist to arrive at a finished form. They both allow
| faster production. The decorating comes later, with glazes or whatever.
|
| All this was an interesting series of events to go through. I learned a
lot.
| Today, I don't really care what anyone thinks about moldmaking or hand
| thrown or hand built. All are methods to be used as tools as the
clayartist
| proceeds through his work. To me the finished piece is what is important.
I
| let others extol the virtues of this way or that way. For me, it's
whatever
| works to acheive the immediate goal that counts.
|
| But, it would be interesting to hear more comments on the issue of where
| these attitudes of molds vs throwing/hnadbuilding came from.
|
| BTW, I finally decided on making the piece into a limited edition of 35
| pieces. The studio sold 28 pieces in white bisque for $175/ea and 7 pieces
| in gold cladding at $750/ea. So much for slipcasting vs thrown works.
|
| John Rodgers
| In New Mexico
|

elizabeth priddy on thu 2 sep 99

I think David's sentiments are why the
hump mold or jigger solutions work best for me,
just pouring the liquid clay into the form
doesn't "feel" right, just now.

But I am a young potter and have miles to go before
I sleep. I may make some molds and cast them. But
these plates are what I am making right now and need
to reflect my thoughts and attitudes of the moment,
not what they might expand to be in the future. And
as of now, the clay has to be solid for it to "count"
as made by my hand.

Oddly enough, I have made molds before, some rather
complex and freaky carving an odd friend wanted
sprigged onto his beer steins-which I threw, and some
christmas ornaments of the twelve days of christmas.
The molds worked fine, the 12 days were eventually
made as ram press molded porcelain-not by me, the
production pottery I was designing for at the time.


I enjoyed the designing of the molds, but didn't get
much out of the fabrication or the molding. But that
could change, and at that time, I would be fine with
it and apparently so would most of the potters
out there; which makes me feel better about it all,
since I like my options maximized.


---
Elizabeth Priddy

I speak from sincerity and experience, not authority...
email: epriddy@usa.net
website: www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop


On Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:14:05 David Hendley wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I'll bite, John.
>I have a strong opinion on this subject that I know some
>people will not agree with.
>
>Clay is pretty unique in that it can be formed and shaped
>with your hands.
>Try that working with glass, metal, or wood.
>So, I count as handmade only ceramic objects that
>were made with the hands. This would include handbuilt,
>thrown, extruded and manipulated, and even cast and
>manipulated objects.
>Cast ceramic objects, no matter who made the mold, no
>matter how intricately hand-painted, even if clad in gold,
>are not handmade.
>For you, you say that the finished piece is all that is important.
>For me, process is also important.
>
>Don't get me wrong, I immensely admire master moldmakers
>and wish I had their knowledge and skill. Likewise for
>china painters, but there is a difference between "painted
>by...." or "designed by...." and "handmade by...."
>Your last paragraph illustrates the point perfectly:
>
>| BTW, I finally decided on making the piece into a limited edition of 35
>| pieces. The studio sold 28 pieces in white bisque for $175/ea and 7 pieces
>| in gold cladding at $750/ea.
>
>If something is truly handmade, there is a limited
>edition of "1". Period.
>
>--
>David Hendley
>Maydelle, Texas
>hendley@tyler.net
>http://www.farmpots.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: John Rodgers
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 10:51 AM
>Subject: Re: ego problem and ceramic envy
>
>
>| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>| With all this discussion about molds vs thrown work, I would like to hear
>| any comments as to why and where this negative attitude about molds comes
>| from, especially among potters and others whos work is principally in the
>| more plastic clays, ie pottery clay as opposed to slipcast clays.
>|
>| Though I do a good bit of throwing myself, I came into claywork via the
>| slipcast route and it was years before I got into thrown and handbuilt
>work.
>|
>| I was practically thrown out of a show in Alaska once because my work was
>| slipcast. The jurist, one of Alaska's better known artists, was world
>| traveled as an artist, and educated. I would have expected better of him.
>| The work was my own, and I had done the original model in wax, made molds
>| from it, then slipcast the piece in pure white porcelain. The piece didn't
>| even get through the initial review of all entrants into the show. It was
>| rejected out of hand. I was told by the jurors assistants that the juror
>had
>| initially said that such work was not acceptable because it was from
>| commercial molds. When the assistants told him who I was, that they knew
>| personally of the origins of the work and that it was NOT from commercial
>| molds, he then said it was slipcast, and too commercial in nature. The
>| assistants didn't argue. The piece did not get entered, much less judged.
>|
>| All this caused me a great deal of consternation and angst. It was my
>first
>| effort at that level. To be rejected was one thing, but for the reasons
>| given were quite another.
>|
>| I later entered the piece in another show, with another juror. The piece
>was
>| allowed entry, but didn't place, and that was O.K. At the jurors critique,
>| he also had my work, even though it had not placed. The juror reviewed
>| various aspects of the different works. All manner of hand built work, and
>| thrown work was reviewed. And of course there were a lot of ooohhh's and
>| aaahhh's, and clapping. Then he turned to my work. Though it did not
>place,
>| it was selected for the critique because it was so different from anything
>| else there. The methods were so different. Fist time I ever heard a juror
>| give acknowledgement and credit for slipcast work. He admonished potters
>not
>| to be so proud of the their thrown works, because in the same way a mold
>| is to a slip cast piece, a wheel is to a thrown piece....both are simply
>| mechanisms to aid the artist to arrive at a finished form. They both allow
>| faster production. The decorating comes later, with glazes or whatever.
>|
>| All this was an interesting series of events to go through. I learned a
>lot.
>| Today, I don't really care what anyone thinks about moldmaking or hand
>| thrown or hand built. All are methods to be used as tools as the
>clayartist
>| proceeds through his work. To me the finished piece is what is important.
>I
>| let others extol the virtues of this way or that way. For me, it's
>whatever
>| works to acheive the immediate goal that counts.
>|
>| But, it would be interesting to hear more comments on the issue of where
>| these attitudes of molds vs throwing/hnadbuilding came from.
>|
>| BTW, I finally decided on making the piece into a limited edition of 35
>| pieces. The studio sold 28 pieces in white bisque for $175/ea and 7 pieces
>| in gold cladding at $750/ea. So much for slipcasting vs thrown works.
>|
>| John Rodgers
>| In New Mexico
>|
>


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