Ray Aldridge on mon 11 oct 99
Since there's been some discussion of this author's architectural writings
(_A Pattern Language_ etc.) as they apply to design in general, I thought
the list might enjoy this short excerpt from an upcoming series of books--
_The Nature of Order_
-------------------------
"An excerpt from Book 4 of the Nature of Order.
"The structure of life I have described in buildings -- the structure
which I believe to be objective -- is deeply and inextricably connected with
the human person, and with the innermost nature of human feeling. In
this fourth volume I shall approach this topic of the inner feeling in a
building, where there is a kind of personal thickness -- a source, or
ground, something almost occult -- in which we find that the ultimate
questions of architecture and art concern some connection of
incalculable depth, between the made work (building, painting, ornament,
street) and the inner "I" which each of us experiences.
What I call "the I" is that interior element in a work of art, which
makes one feel related to it. It may occur in a leaf, or in a picture, in a
house,
in a wave, even in a grain of sand, or in an ornament. It is not ego.
It is not me. It is not individual at all, having to do with me, or you. It is
humble, and enormous: that thing in common which each one of us has in
us. It is the spirit which animates each living center.
I believe that the ultimate effort of all serious art, is to be making
things which connect with this I of the person. This "I," not normally
available, is dredged up, forced to the light, forced into the light
of day, by the work of art.
My hypothesis is this. That all value depends on a structure in which
each center, the life of each center, approaches this simple,forgotten,
remembered, unremembered "I." That in the living work, each living
center really is a connection to this "I.""
----------------------
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
colorfool on wed 13 oct 99
------------------
Ray, I'm going to have to read these Christopher Alexander books. As I =
read
these excerpts I hear voices in my head.....One says =22Gee, Pam, ya shoulda
stayed and got that MFA and you'd know what he was talkin' about=22 the =
other
says =22Woo-Woo=22 and yet another tells me not to make jokes about the =
=22Mindless
Way=22 until I have at least read the book.
It all seems so contradictory and ethereal my eyes start rollin' back in my
head.. Could you give me the Publisher and ISBN so I could Interlibrary =
borrow
these. Just in case the Woo-Woo voice is right I don't want to invest a lot=
of
=24=24=24=24=24=24=24.
Many thanks, Pam
Ray Aldridge on wed 13 oct 99
At 09:36 AM 10/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
>I don't mind if you post to the list.
Thanks, Sandy. I'll leave my last note below, and I'll move this onto Clayart.
I really enjoy this discussion! I
>think the "I" "ME" thing needs further discussion, too. Also, as a fan
of old
>carpets, I would very much like to see Alexander's persian pattern algorithm.
>Is it published somewhere?
Yes! I went to amazon.com and discovered that _A Foreshadowing of 21st
Century Art : The Color and Geometry of Very Early Turkish Carpets (Center
for Environmental Structure, Vol 7)_ is still in print, read a very
complimentary view, and noted down the particulars so I could get it
through interlibrary loan. It's a $150 book. Evidently his philosophy
extends to his bookmaking.
>
>About Alexander's hermit-like vs. out-there approach---There have been many
>hermits who come forth with tomes----St. Theresa is one of them, as are
several
>other Christian mystics. The fact that they try and communicate their
sense of
>the world and it's permeability to the outside population doesn't make
them any
>less mystical or contemplative. It does seem that Alexander is forging a
>philosophy of living as much as art. Which is what makes him so
appealing.
>
>John Madden---is he on NPR, I'm sure I've heard him?
He may have invaded those sacred precincts, but his greatest elevation in
fame occurred when he was coach of the Oakland Raiders. Now he calls
football games and schleps hardware for Ace. But a fascinating and
formidable personality.
Ray
>Sandy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Aldridge [SMTP:pbwriter@fwb.gulf.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 5:21 PM
>To: Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI)
>Subject: RE: Christopher Alexander" philosophy of design
>
>At 04:51 PM 10/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>Ray--
>>How can something be "remembered" and "unremembered" at the same time?
>
>Hey, I do it all the time. I woke up this morning and I couldn't think of
>my favorite color commentator's last name. Later it came to me, so I must
>have been remembering it somewhere. John Madden.
>
> It
>>seems to me that Alexander is writing from some mystical place very deep
>inside
>>of himself----I found that certainly in A Pattern Language. He seems
almost
>>"hermetic" in the sense of a hermit in a cave, thinking and ruminating, and
>>ruminating, and ruminating. I think I understand what this great "I" is,
>and
>>as with so many others before him---he has a hard time describing mystical
>>experiences. There are several modern philosophers who speak from the same
>>interior pondering--like Merleau-Ponty and Wittgenstein.
>>
>>But here is the real question for me------if this big "I" is just the
ego, is
>>just the I as ME when I create something----how can it be universal?
>
>Sandy, he says specifically that it is *not* ego. Not "me."
>
>You're right that what he's talking about is as slippery as any other
>speculation on the nature of Art, but it seems to me that he is the
>opposite of hermetic in his approach, in that he is attempting to
>universalize his approach to "right-making".
>
>Most discussions of the nature of Art eventually devolve to: "I don't know
>what Art is, but I know what I like." I admire Alexander for attempting to
>get past this, though only time will tell if he has been more successful
>than other strivers.
>
>It's interesting to me that he derived an extremely accurate mathematical
>system for differentiating between very old Persian carpets, and modern
>knockoffs, based on the pattern of color placement. It works perfectly,
>apparently. Naturally a lot of carpet pundits who rely on the "what I
>like" approach to criticism were outraged. He attracts a lot of poorly
>articulated anger, I've noticed. One example I came across was a speech he
>gave in Amsterdam, following the speech of a post-modernist babbleizer, who
>reportedly was outraged by Alexander's suggestion that architecture was
>more properly the province of the users of architecture, and not
>architects, who have become "artists" in the worst possible sense.
>
>His is the most interesting discussion of art that I've come across,
>because it seems so fresh and unburdened by the dead hand of past
assumptions.
>
>Ray
>
>P.S. would you mind if I reposted this to the list? I'd like to further
>this discussion, if possible.
>
>>-------------------------
>>"An excerpt from Book 4 of the Nature of Order.
>>
>> "The structure of life I have described in buildings -- the structure
>>which I believe to be objective -- is deeply and inextricably connected with
>> the human person, and with the innermost nature of human feeling. In
>>this fourth volume I shall approach this topic of the inner feeling in a
>> building, where there is a kind of personal thickness -- a source, or
>>ground, something almost occult -- in which we find that the ultimate
>> questions of architecture and art concern some connection of
>>incalculable depth, between the made work (building, painting, ornament,
>> street) and the inner "I" which each of us experiences.
>>
>> What I call "the I" is that interior element in a work of art, which
>>makes one feel related to it. It may occur in a leaf, or in a picture, in a
>>house,
>> in a wave, even in a grain of sand, or in an ornament. It is not ego.
>>It is not me. It is not individual at all, having to do with me, or you.
>It is
>> humble, and enormous: that thing in common which each one of us has in
>>us. It is the spirit which animates each living center.
>>
>> I believe that the ultimate effort of all serious art, is to be making
>>things which connect with this I of the person. This "I," not normally
>> available, is dredged up, forced to the light, forced into the light
>>of day, by the work of art.
>>
>> My hypothesis is this. That all value depends on a structure in which
>>each center, the life of each center, approaches this simple,forgotten,
>> remembered, unremembered "I." That in the living work, each living
>>center really is a connection to this "I.""
>>----------------------
>>
>>Ray
>>
>>
>>
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Hank Murrow on thu 14 oct 99
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>------------------
>Ray, I'm going to have to read these Christopher Alexander books. As I read
>these excerpts I hear voices in my head.....One says "Gee, Pam, ya shoulda
>stayed and got that MFA and you'd know what he was talkin' about" the other
>says "Woo-Woo" and yet another tells me not to make jokes about the "Mindless
>Way" until I have at least read the book.
>
>It all seems so contradictory and ethereal my eyes start rollin' back in my
>head.. Could you give me the Publisher and ISBN so I could Interlibrary borrow
>these. Just in case the Woo-Woo voice is right I don't want to invest a
>lot of
>$$$$$$$.
>
>Many thanks, Pam
Dear Pam; No woo-woo here: "A Pattern Language", Oxford University Press,
1977.....and "The Timeless Way of Building", ditto, 1979. The new work
"Nature of Order" which is in 5 volumes is available only in a mimeograph
edition which has poor visual quality as it is in the nascent stages. No
word on when it will be finished. I've been working with the ideas for 15
years and they are invaluable at any scale. Hank in Eugene
Ray Aldridge on thu 14 oct 99
At 01:58 PM 10/13/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>------------------
>Ray, I'm going to have to read these Christopher Alexander books. As I read
>these excerpts I hear voices in my head.....One says "Gee, Pam, ya shoulda
>stayed and got that MFA and you'd know what he was talkin' about" the other
>says "Woo-Woo" and yet another tells me not to make jokes about the "Mindless
>Way" until I have at least read the book.
>
>It all seems so contradictory and ethereal my eyes start rollin' back in my
>head.. Could you give me the Publisher and ISBN so I could Interlibrary
borrow
>these. Just in case the Woo-Woo voice is right I don't want to invest a
lot of
>$$$$$$$.
>
Actually, Alexander is vastly more concrete and down to earth than most who
write about esthetics, and you won't need more than basic literacy to
understand most of what he says. And no matter how well-educated one might
be, understanding some parts of what he says requires a leap of faith,
which I am notoriously reluctant to do. But the more concrete aspects of
his theses are so obviously correct that it's a little easier to try to
understand his more abstruse remarks, Start with _A Pattern Language_,
Oxford University Press '77, ISBN 0195019199.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Ray Aldridge on fri 15 oct 99
At 01:05 PM 10/14/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>------------------
>>Ray, I'm going to have to read these Christopher Alexander books. As I
read
>>these excerpts I hear voices in my head.....One says "Gee, Pam, ya shoulda
>>stayed and got that MFA and you'd know what he was talkin' about" the other
>>says "Woo-Woo" and yet another tells me not to make jokes about the
"Mindless
>>Way" until I have at least read the book.
>>
>>It all seems so contradictory and ethereal my eyes start rollin' back in my
>>head.. Could you give me the Publisher and ISBN so I could Interlibrary
borrow
>>these. Just in case the Woo-Woo voice is right I don't want to invest a
>>lot of
>>$$$$$$$.
>
>Dear Pam; No woo-woo here: "A Pattern Language", Oxford University Press,
>1977.....and "The Timeless Way of Building", ditto, 1979. The new work
>"Nature of Order" which is in 5 volumes is available only in a mimeograph
>edition which has poor visual quality as it is in the nascent stages. No
>word on when it will be finished. I've been working with the ideas for 15
>years and they are invaluable at any scale. Hank in Eugene
>
Hank, there's a guy who maintains a small site on the Web regarding
Alexander (and I'm astonished that there isn't an enormous online community
discussing and practicing these ideas, considering Alexander's impact on
software design) and he says that Oxford is aiming at fall 2000 for the
Nature of Order's first volumes, which are apparently not all at the same
stage of readiness.
So where do you get mimeograph copies?
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Barney Adams on fri 15 oct 99
Ray
I only disagree with starting with "Pattern Language".
I'd read "Timeless Way of Building" first. You might even
pass on "Pattern Language" unless you want to see a sample
of the concepts expressed in "Timeless Way of Building".
Other than that minor point I agree wholeheartedly.
Barney
Ray Aldridge wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> At 01:58 PM 10/13/99 EDT, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >------------------
> >Ray, I'm going to have to read these Christopher Alexander books. As I read
> >these excerpts I hear voices in my head.....One says "Gee, Pam, ya shoulda
> >stayed and got that MFA and you'd know what he was talkin' about" the other
> >says "Woo-Woo" and yet another tells me not to make jokes about the "Mindless
> >Way" until I have at least read the book.
> >
> >It all seems so contradictory and ethereal my eyes start rollin' back in my
> >head.. Could you give me the Publisher and ISBN so I could Interlibrary
> borrow
> >these. Just in case the Woo-Woo voice is right I don't want to invest a
> lot of
> >$$$$$$$.
> >
>
> Actually, Alexander is vastly more concrete and down to earth than most who
> write about esthetics, and you won't need more than basic literacy to
> understand most of what he says. And no matter how well-educated one might
> be, understanding some parts of what he says requires a leap of faith,
> which I am notoriously reluctant to do. But the more concrete aspects of
> his theses are so obviously correct that it's a little easier to try to
> understand his more abstruse remarks, Start with _A Pattern Language_,
> Oxford University Press '77, ISBN 0195019199.
>
> Ray
>
> Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
> http://www.goodpots.com
| |
|
