Vince Pitelka on wed 20 oct 99
I haven't read ALL of these posts, but it is apparent that lots of you are
concerned about wood or plastic bats which are a little loose on the pins,
and also the possibility of the bat lifting off the wheelhead in a hard pull
on the clay. This really does not need to be a problem at all. When you
sit down to throw, place a dozen or so very small wads (half the size of a
marble) on the wheelhead evenly spaced along the same circle where the bat
pins are located. Flatten them down with the palm of your hand. Place your
first bat on the wheel, and whack it with your fist. Throw a pot. Pry the
bat off with an old, dull screwdriver. The flattened wads of clay will stay
on the wheelhead, and you can use the same ones all day long. The bats will
not wobble around, and they will never lift off in a hard pull.
I have never liked plaster bats on the wheel. But each to his/her own.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Vince Pitelka on mon 6 nov 06
Just to provide further clarification for what Mel said about bat pins, the
items you want to ask for are "Allen socket-head cap screws," not "cap
bolts." They are generally available from Home Depot or Lowe's in the
specialty hardware area. All of the commercial wheel manufacturer use 1/4"
coarse-thread Allen socket-head cap screws for bat pins. The length of the
screws will depend on the thickness of your wheelhead where the pins are
installed. Purchase 1/4" coarse-thread wing nuts to screw on under the
wheelhead to attach the cap screws.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Janet Price on tue 7 nov 06
All,
On thomas stuart wheels--at least the kickwheel I have--the pins go in
the bats and there are just holes in the wheelhead. The wheel came with
a form for making the bats and the pins to put in them. Yes, the bats
take up space and would probably be no good for a production potter.
And the pins make the bats take up more space.
But, they work like a charm, and I can trim directly on the wheelhead.
Janet
Craig Fulladosa on sun 16 oct 11
I was never turned on by hand building either but learned to really appreci=
=3D
ate it after becoming a teacher. Just like I did not appreciate drawing or =
=3D
painting much until I began teaching it as a necessity.Teaching both=3DA0ha=
nd=3D
-building=3DA0and drawing and painting actually helped improve my skills a =
a =3D
potter in making decorative ware and mixed media or combined technique ware=
=3D
. I can see that wheel trowing when in high school=3DA0might be=3DA0much mo=
re a=3D
ppealing to a beginner but if you are open minded you might discover how mu=
=3D
ch is really possible with=3DA0hand-building. It is just a slower process o=
f =3D
forming clay.=3D0AAn older potting friend of mine whinced when I confessed =
to=3D
him that I had just purchased a giffin grip. He told me he never needed su=
=3D
ch a device, and seemed to try and make me feel lesser as a potter for usin=
=3D
g one.I don't care how good you get at tapping a pot to center for trimming=
=3D
I think the tool holds the pots more surely and is a great tool. It's kind=
=3D
of like those that hate computers and prefer to use a pencil and snail mai=
=3D
l. I am one for embracing new ideas and techniques. Like Mr Miagi said in t=
=3D
he original Karate Kid. "BALANCE!!!!"=3D0AI LIKE BATS AND BAT PINS BUT CAN =
US=3D
E =3DA0OR TRIM POTS EITHER WAY.=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A_____________________________=
___=3D0AFr=3D
om: Carl Cravens =3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0AS=
ent:=3D
Sunday, October 16, 2011 11:20 AM=3D0ASubject: Re: bat pins=3D0A=3D0AIn th=
e "Cla=3D
y In the Schools" book Mel edited, in his chapter he suggests the opposite,=
=3D
and my experience agrees with him. Hand-building didn't appeal to me. It w=
=3D
as hard... careful, nit-picky smoothing; difficulty in achieving even/squar=
=3D
e/round forms, learning how to join properly by trial and error. In my High=
=3D
School, wheel work was for advanced, "promising" students.=3D0A=3D0AI neve=
r go=3D
t there... I didn't take ceramics the next semester because hand-building w=
=3D
asn't rewarding enough, and I knew I wasn't yet "advanced" enough to "gradu=
=3D
ate" to the wheel. I didn't try it again for years, when my wife suggested =
=3D
a wheel throwing class. And I was hooked instantly... clay on the wheel is =
=3D
a whole different animal. Where I struggled with hand-building, wheel work =
=3D
felt natural, like it was the only art my body was made for and had been wa=
=3D
iting for all my life. In HS, the wheel was for advanced hand-building stud=
=3D
ents... which I was not. But on the wheel, I shot ahead of the rest of the =
=3D
class... tall cylinders while others still struggled to center, mugs before=
=3D
they had good cylinders, a lidded jar with a thrown-on knob while the teac=
=3D
her wondered where I'd learned=3D0Ato do advanced work, because *she* hadn'=
t =3D
taught me this. (I had checked out every book and video from the library by=
=3D
week five.)=3D0A=3D0AThe wheel was my "gateway drug"... hand-building neve=
r ga=3D
ve me a hint of a high. If hand-building is a required gateway to reach the=
=3D
wheel, how many never discover a passion for clay because they were turned=
=3D
off by hand-building before they meet the gatekeeper's requirements?=3D0A=
=3D0A=3D
Now that I love clay, and have had time to get comfortable with the materia=
=3D
l on my own terms, I see how important hand-building skill is to the throwi=
=3D
ng potter and I'm pursuing that skill. But after my experience with clay on=
=3D
the wheel, I'm finding I have a better understanding and appreciation of w=
=3D
orking with clay by hand. For me, the skills as a whole came easier by find=
=3D
ing success at the wheel first.
Rimas VisGirda on sun 16 oct 11
Vince, When I was teaching, the students were not allowed to use pinned bat=
=3D
s for the introductory throwing course -including for large bowls and plate=
=3D
s. This was coupled with my basic stratagem of a semester of handbuilding, =
=3D
pinch, coil, slab, extruding; my thinking is that it's important for the st=
=3D
udent to experience the clay with the hand and understand it's properties a=
=3D
nd limitations before using aids like bats, dipping tongs, pot lifters and =
=3D
(now really) pre-centered clay which separates them from the medium and pre=
=3D
vents an interaction. By understanding the NATURE of clay it allows the per=
=3D
son to work WITH it rather than ON it... But maybe it's just the dinosaur i=
=3D
n me that's talking. Having said that, I do find bat pins useful (also dipp=
=3D
ing tongs) but I don't LOVE them as you seem to... Pot lifters I do have a =
=3D
problem with, I'm glad I didn't find any at ACC...=3D0A=3D0A-Rimas=3D0A=3D0=
A=3D0AI lo=3D
ve bat pins.=3DA0 I dream of the day when all institutional wheels are =3D3=
D=3D0A=3D
equipped with bat pins, and every institutional studio has an abundant =3D3=
D=3D
=3D0Asupply of bats.=3DA0 In the mean time, any student worried about the =
=3D3D=3D
=3D0Ainadequacy or availability of bats in a certain institution can easily=
=3D
=3D3D=3D0Aprovide their own supply of bats boldly emblazoned with their nam=
e.=3D
=3DA0 Is =3D3D=3D0Athat really such a problem?=3D0A- Vince
Carl Cravens on sun 16 oct 11
In the "Clay In the Schools" book Mel edited, in his chapter he suggests th=
=3D
e opposite, and my experience agrees with him. Hand-building didn't appeal =
=3D
to me. It was hard... careful, nit-picky smoothing; difficulty in achieving=
=3D
even/square/round forms, learning how to join properly by trial and error.=
=3D
In my High School, wheel work was for advanced, "promising" students.
I n=3D
ever got there... I didn't take ceramics the next semester because hand-bui=
=3D
lding wasn't rewarding enough, and I knew I wasn't yet "advanced" enough to=
=3D
"graduate" to the wheel. I didn't try it again for years, when my wife sug=
=3D
gested a wheel throwing class. And I was hooked instantly... clay on the wh=
=3D
eel is a whole different animal. Where I struggled with hand-building, whee=
=3D
l work felt natural, like it was the only art my body was made for and had =
=3D
been waiting for all my life. In HS, the wheel was for advanced hand-buildi=
=3D
ng students... which I was not. But on the wheel, I shot ahead of the rest =
=3D
of the class... tall cylinders while others still struggled to center, mugs=
=3D
before they had good cylinders, a lidded jar with a thrown-on knob while t=
=3D
he teacher wondered where I'd learned
to do advanced work, because *she* ha=3D
dn't taught me this. (I had checked out every book and video from the libra=
=3D
ry by week five.)
The wheel was my "gateway drug"... hand-building never g=3D
ave me a hint of a high. If hand-building is a required gateway to reach th=
=3D
e wheel, how many never discover a passion for clay because they were turne=
=3D
d off by hand-building before they meet the gatekeeper's requirements?
Now=3D
that I love clay, and have had time to get comfortable with the material o=
=3D
n my own terms, I see how important hand-building skill is to the throwing =
=3D
potter and I'm pursuing that skill. But after my experience with clay on th=
=3D
e wheel, I'm finding I have a better understanding and appreciation of work=
=3D
ing with clay by hand. For me, the skills as a whole came easier by finding=
=3D
success at the wheel first.
Vince Pitelka on sun 16 oct 11
Rimas VisGirda wrote:
"Vince, When I was teaching, the students were not allowed to use pinned
bats for the introductory throwing course -including for large bowls and
plates. This was coupled with my basic stratagem of a semester of
handbuilding, pinch, coil, slab, extruding; my thinking is that it's
important for the student to experience the clay with the hand and
understand it's properties and limitations before using aids like bats,
dipping tongs, pot lifters and (now really) pre-centered clay which
separates them from the medium and prevents an interaction. By understandin=
g
the NATURE of clay it allows the person to work WITH it rather than ON it..=
.
But maybe it's just the dinosaur in me that's talking. Having said that, I
do find bat pins useful (also dipping tongs) but I don't LOVE them as you
seem to... Pot lifters I do have a problem with, I'm glad I didn't find any
at ACC..."
Hi Rimas -
I have never used a set of pot-lifters, and I don't think I have ever seem =
a
pair in our studio. I don't much care for what they do to the bottoms of
pots. Pot-lifters pretty much require that every pot be wheel-trimmed, and
that is a waste of time on so many forms.
In my teaching career at a number of different institutions leading up to m=
y
current position, Intro to Clay has always been handbuilding, with just a
taste of wheel-work at the end of the semester. In the Intro class the
students do pinch, coil, soft-slab, and stiff-slab methods in a wide variet=
y
of projects, and I can guarantee that they all learn to handbuild pretty
well in that class, and learn about the properties and limitations of clay.
The projects include a life-size coil-built head-and-shoulders bust, severa=
l
coil-built vessels, soft slab vessel forms and covered boxes, and geometric
stiff-slab forms made from slabs impressed with patterns from bisque-stamps
and rollers they have made.
We do occasionally allow students from other media areas to take the Clay o=
n
the Wheel class without having taken the Intro class, because it can fulfil=
l
the requirement for one of their upper-division studio electives outside
their area of concentration. Almost universally, the students who have
learned handbuilding in the Intro class learn the wheel far more quickly,
and tend to be far more thoughtful about their forms, than those who go
straight into wheel-work with no previous introduction to clay. In my
experience through 25 years of full-time teaching, students learning
handbuilding as their first exposure to clay will be making forms that give
them a considerable degree of control and personal satisfaction much more
quickly than would ever be possible on the wheel.
Regarding bats and bat-pins, students learning the wheel for the first time
need every reasonable advantage they can get, including bat pins and bats,
and I see no advantage at all in withholding their use in an introductory
throwing class. I certainly agree that the idea of pre-centered clay is
just plain disturbing. Dipping tongs are a practical tool for certain kinds
of glazing, and I make them available to all my students.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Vince Pitelka on mon 17 oct 11
Kathi LeSueur wrote:
"I don't know what people are doing to make bats that use bat pins be such =
a
problem. . . . . So, I don't know why any of you are having such a problem
and I definitely recommend the use of bat pins, especially for people just
starting out."
What she said. I really cannot understand how anyone can be frustrated wit=
h
poorly-fitting bats. That is the fault of lousy bats, or of the teacher
running the particular studio, not the bat pin system. If you throw big
pots, just stick the bat down to the wheelhead with dots or a small coil of
clay under the bat and it will never lift off when you are pulling up the
walls. I appreciate David Hendley's innovation and resourcefulness in all
things, but plastic, Masonite, or Medex bats are very compact and efficient=
,
taking up very little storage space in the studio. Well-made and
well-cared-for, all of those types of bats last almost indefinitely and are
so simple to use. This ain't rocket science, folks. The people who do not
like bat pins are the people who never really gave them a chance with prope=
r
bats, because there simply is no better system. Yep, that's just my
opinion, but one that I have formulated carefully during 40 years in clay.
When I built my oversized Shimpo RK-1-imitation in the mid 70s I bought
several Robert Brent wheelhead seconds (including shaft, bearings, and
bearing housing including mounting flange) from the original Robert Brent
factory in Healdsburg, California. I bought all my clay from them too.
Yep, they made clay. At any rate, one of the wheelhead seconds had a bent
wheelhead so I cut off the wheelhead and used the bearing assembly and inpu=
t
shaft for the jackshaft that supports the hard rubber drive ring. The othe=
r
one was perfect and became my wheelhead, complete with bat pins. For my
studio in California I made 200 bats in various diameters out of 3/4"
waterproof MDF, but I have since learned that 1/2" Medex waterproof MDF
works great for any size of bats.
Bat pins rule!
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Ric Swenson on mon 17 oct 11
I use foam batts for trimming...makes sense... It works...what is good is=
what works....from 1000 years ago or now.... if it works...it is good....
never used a griffen grip...devised my own methods....foam works
balance is good...right..
center yourself first....then the clay
Ric
Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher,
Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Inst=
itute,
TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.
JiangXi Province, P.R. of China.
Postal code 333001.
Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872
< RicSwenson0823@hotmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:57:54 -0700
> From: custom_tilemaker@YAHOO.COM
> Subject: Re: bat pins
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>
> I was never turned on by hand building either but learned to really appre=
ciate it after becoming a teacher. Just like I did not appreciate drawing o=
r painting much until I began teaching it as a necessity.Teaching both hand=
-building and drawing and painting actually helped improve my skills a a po=
tter in making decorative ware and mixed media or combined technique ware. =
I can see that wheel trowing when in high school might be much more appeali=
ng to a beginner but if you are open minded you might discover how much is =
really possible with hand-building. It is just a slower process of forming =
clay.
> An older potting friend of mine whinced when I confessed to him that I ha=
d just purchased a giffin grip. He told me he never needed such a device, a=
nd seemed to try and make me feel lesser as a potter for using one.I don't =
care how good you get at tapping a pot to center for trimming I think the t=
ool holds the pots more surely and is a great tool. It's kind of like those=
that hate computers and prefer to use a pencil and snail mail. I am one fo=
r embracing new ideas and techniques. Like Mr Miagi said in the original Ka=
rate Kid. "BALANCE!!!!"
> I LIKE BATS AND BAT PINS BUT CAN USE OR TRIM POTS EITHER WAY.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Carl Cravens
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 11:20 AM
> Subject: Re: bat pins
>
> In the "Clay In the Schools" book Mel edited, in his chapter he suggests =
the opposite, and my experience agrees with him. Hand-building didn't appea=
l to me. It was hard... careful, nit-picky smoothing; difficulty in achievi=
ng even/square/round forms, learning how to join properly by trial and erro=
r. In my High School, wheel work was for advanced, "promising" students.
>
> I never got there... I didn't take ceramics the next semester because han=
d-building wasn't rewarding enough, and I knew I wasn't yet "advanced" enou=
gh to "graduate" to the wheel. I didn't try it again for years, when my wif=
e suggested a wheel throwing class. And I was hooked instantly... clay on t=
he wheel is a whole different animal. Where I struggled with hand-building,=
wheel work felt natural, like it was the only art my body was made for and=
had been waiting for all my life. In HS, the wheel was for advanced hand-b=
uilding students... which I was not. But on the wheel, I shot ahead of the =
rest of the class... tall cylinders while others still struggled to center,=
mugs before they had good cylinders, a lidded jar with a thrown-on knob wh=
ile the teacher wondered where I'd learned
> to do advanced work, because *she* hadn't taught me this. (I had checked =
out every book and video from the library by week five.)
>
> The wheel was my "gateway drug"... hand-building never gave me a hint of =
a high. If hand-building is a required gateway to reach the wheel, how many=
never discover a passion for clay because they were turned off by hand-bui=
lding before they meet the gatekeeper's requirements?
>
> Now that I love clay, and have had time to get comfortable with the mater=
ial on my own terms, I see how important hand-building skill is to the thro=
wing potter and I'm pursuing that skill. But after my experience with clay =
on the wheel, I'm finding I have a better understanding and appreciation of=
working with clay by hand. For me, the skills as a whole came easier by fi=
nding success at the wheel first.
Snail Scott on mon 17 oct 11
On Oct 16, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Carl Cravens wrote:
> ...In my High School, wheel work was for advanced, "promising" students..=
.
I often encounter this attitude - that the wheel is the
'real' or 'grownup' tool, and handbuilding is the kiddie
version of claywork, or a stopgap until wheelwork
becomes possible. I don't really get it.
I do start my college students on handbuilding, in
part because it's less frustrating - no wedging to get
the hang of, no inevitable initial failures. They can
feel like they've made visible progress immediately
and begin the term with a positive attitude. Also, I
only have half as many wheels as students, so I want
them to have something to do while the other half
of the class is learning the wheel later on. Another
reason I start with handbuilding, though, is it puts the
behavior of clay right in their hands, up close. They
can see the stretching, the squishing, get the feel
for how moisture levels affect plasticity, etc. When
I have them work on pinching, I can see the ones
that did it in third grade - "yeah, I know this stuff,
boring!" It's 'boring' while they stretch the clay by
squeezing it - easy! - then I have them bring it in,
contract the sprawl, compress that spread inward
or upward instead of just outward, and they realize
that third grade didn't even skim the surface. It also
trains their finger/brain connection to feel thickness
as they attempt to equalize and even out the wall.
The wheel can seem magical sometimes, and that's
a problem, as it doesn't always seem obvious WHY
a particular outcome occurs, it 'just happens'. I find
that students 'get' throwing better when they relate
it to what they did with hand-pinching: stretching,
lifting, compressing, etc. Throwing ain't nothing but
pinching with a bit of automation added.
I believe that the connection could work in the other
direction as well, but the logistics of my classroom
don't make it reasonable to start on the wheel.
The attitude that handbuilding is merely a prep for
the wheel, or a low-budget or kiddie methodology,
seriously shortchanges handbuilding as an end in
its own right, though. I constantly encounter students
who had multiple semesters of clay in high school or
some such, who can't make a decent joint between
two pieces of clay because they 'got beyond' that level
(i.e. handbuilding') and moved on to the wheel. Their
teachers, I suspect, never learned to be competent
at handbuilding either, passing on their attitude that
only the wheel is worthy of respect or serious effort.
It's quite ridiculous to treat one method as fundamentally
more advanced or sophisticated than the other or to
treat one method as essential gateway training for the
other, and treating all handbuilding as basic, simple, or
'just kid stuff' usually betrays a serious lack of actual
skills and understanding.
The fact is, a lot of things are done best by handbuilding,
and when the wheel is taught to the exclusion of all else,
or presented as the ultimate pinnacle of clayworking, a lot
of options for fresh thinking and understanding fall by the
wayside. Teachers who only learned one way of working
proceed to pass that narrow thinking on to the next
generation, and that's a damn shame. Specialization is for
experts. School is for exploration.
-Snail
Rimas VisGirda on mon 17 oct 11
I guess there's exceptions to every rule or different strokes for different=
=3D
folks... Mel throws, he knows how to throw, I've not heard him talking abo=
=3D
ut handbuilding (that I can recall). We teach what we know. I learned throw=
=3D
ing first, then tried hand-building in my first Master's degree. When I sta=
=3D
rted to teach I taught throwing, but soon came to two realizations. 1 -that=
=3D
there is more to ceramics than making round things. 2 -learning to throw (=
=3D
well) took a LOT of practice and was frustrating for the majority (not all)=
=3D
of my students. Over a course of 10-15 years I developed a curriculum that=
=3D
worked for me. Maybe there's a difference in learning ceramics between hig=
=3D
h school and college; I found that many students that had high school ceram=
=3D
ics needed to unlearn things in order to succeed in college. I wasn't train=
=3D
ing production potters; most of the departments I taught in were service de=
=3D
partment and the majority of students took a ceramics class to
fulfill some elective or other. My job was to give them an idea of what is=
=3D
involved in the field and give them enough information to become intellige=
=3D
nt consumers after college, part of that was making sure that they came awa=
=3D
y with some successful product that they could be proud of. Over the years =
=3D
the majority of my students have disappeared into the masses and I hope tha=
=3D
t they are using the information that I imparted to appreciate ceramic thin=
=3D
gs and make intelligent choices in what they purchase, some have become col=
=3D
lectors, some of my students have become production potters, some have beco=
=3D
me high school teachers, some have become university teachers, some have be=
=3D
come artists, some have made wonderful work and are now running companies t=
=3D
hat have nothing to do with ceramics...I think one of the problems in lower=
=3D
education is that teachers are asked to teach things that they are not com=
=3D
fortable in or know little about or have little experience in. It is
hard to generate interest in a student if you don't have command of your s=
=3D
ubject; conversely if you have command of your subject you can generate int=
=3D
erest in your students... Maybe you had a bum teacher in your high school c=
=3D
lass... One of the best writings about clay I found is the first chapter of=
=3D
Paulus Behrenson's book, Finding One's Way With Clay -the 1972 edition. I =
=3D
suggest you check it out. The rest of the book is a bit too saccharin for m=
=3D
e, that first chapter is romantic but tolerable... The 70's were a pretty t=
=3D
ouchy-feely time and I bought into some of the sensitivity but most of M.C.=
=3D
Richards and Behrenson and that crowd were just WAY too sweet for my taste=
=3D
-but that's just me... Regards, -Rimas=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A_____________________=
=3D0AFro=3D
m: Carl Cravens =3D0ATo: Rimas VisGirda om=3D
>; Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D0ASent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 1:20 PM=3D0A=
Subj=3D
ect: Re: [Clayart] bat pins=3D0A=3D0A=3D0AIn the "Clay In the Schools" book=
Mel e=3D
dited, in his chapter he suggests the opposite, and my experience agrees wi=
=3D
th him. Hand-building didn't appeal to me. It was hard... careful, nit-pick=
=3D
y smoothing; difficulty in achieving even/square/round forms, learning how =
=3D
to join properly by trial and error.=3DA0=3DA0In my High School, wheel work=
was=3D
for advanced, "promising" students.=3D0A=3D0AI never got there... I didn't=
tak=3D
e ceramics the next semester because hand-building wasn't rewarding enough,=
=3D
and I knew I wasn't yet "advanced" enough to "graduate" to the wheel.=3DA0=
=3D
=3DA0I didn't try it again for years, when my wife suggested a wheel throwi=
ng=3D
class. And I was hooked instantly... clay on the wheel is a whole differen=
=3D
t animal. Where I struggled with hand-building, wheel work felt natural, li=
=3D
ke it was the only art my body was made for and had been waiting for all my=
=3D
life. In HS, the wheel was for advanced hand-building students... which I =
=3D
was not. But on the wheel, I shot ahead of the rest of the class... tall cy=
=3D
linders while others still struggled to center, mugs before they had good c=
=3D
ylinders, a lidded jar with a thrown-on knob while the teacher wondered whe=
=3D
re I'd learned=3D0Ato do advanced work, because *she* hadn't taught me this=
. =3D
(I had checked out every book and video from the library by week five.)=3D0=
A=3D
=3D0AThe wheel was my "gateway drug"... hand-building never gave me a hint =
of=3D
a high. If hand-building is a required gateway to reach the wheel, how man=
=3D
y never discover a passion for clay because they were turned off by hand-bu=
=3D
ilding before they meet the gatekeeper's requirements?=3D0A=3D0ANow that I =
love=3D
clay, and have had time to get comfortable with the material on my own ter=
=3D
ms, I see how important hand-building skill is to the throwing potter and I=
=3D
'm pursuing that skill. But after my experience with clay on the wheel, I'm=
=3D
finding I have a better understanding and appreciation of working with cla=
=3D
y by hand. For me, the skills as a whole came easier by finding success at =
=3D
the wheel first.
J Motzkin on mon 17 oct 11
There are bats in my belfry.
My process for large pieces depends on bats and bat pins. Large pieces
return to the wheel at various stages before they are cut off. They are
re-centered easily using the pins. I now use plastibats. I have seen here
that some people do not like them. I do. They take little space. I store
them on edge. They do not warp. They are easy to clean. They do not
disintegrate. It is easy to see where the pins line up. They do flex a
little, which can be an issue with heavier pieces, so I might use a large
MDF bat for very large. Issues with plastics in our environment make me hop=
e
that someone here will tell me that they are, at least, made from recycled
plastic.
I throw small pieces, or off the hump, on a bat as wheel head just to avoid
removing the pins. They are removed directly to a board.
I trim small bowls directly on the wheel head, attached with a bit of
moisture. If I do not remove the pins, I cover them with a wad of clay.
My hand or a pot that slips contacts the clay not the pin.
For years I used bats we made from MDF, or the like, drilled for pins. They
developed wobbles, easy to correct with clay bits. When the cheaper board
ones started to loose wood bits off the edges and into the clay, they would
be retired. Over time I drifted to the plastibats. I used the wood ones onl=
y
when I need one 16-24" or run out of the plastic ones. Mostly they are
taking up space. I will offer them gladly to a needy potter or student.
Perhaps not for everybody, but this studio, like it's potter, is batty.
..judy
Smooth and Smoky group show through October 16
Vessels Gallery
www.motzkin.com
Judy Motzkin Studio
7 tufts street
cambridge MA 02139
617.547.5513
Blog: Projects
David Hendley on mon 17 oct 11
Wire Rabbit:
What's wrong with you, reviving the bat pin debate while I am away at an
art festival?
I take full credit and responsibility for Taylor's dogmatic stance against
bat pins - I taught him well when he was a young bunny.
It is a horrible system. When I travel to do workshops I never, and I mean
never, am able to simply sit down at a wheel and throw a pot. At least 5
minutes is spent trying to find a "good" bat, even if I just want to throw
small items off the hump and don't even want to use a bat. Usually, a
sympathetic student will give me one form their hoarded private stash,
but sometimes I have to make do with a shifting bat. Ker-clunk, ker-clunk,
ker-clunk.
I don't know what the answer is. My bats are unbeatable: an oversized
Formica sink cutout with 3 wooden cleats screwed on the bottom, to
grip the outside of the wheelhead. I am still using bats I made in the
1970's. Taylor wrote and photographed step-by-step instructions making
this style of bat on his blog a few years ago - give us the link Taylor.
They are great for large pots or things that must be removed and returned
to the wheel - you just do it, with no trying to align those little holes
while
peering under a bat holding a 20-pound pot. They go right on instantly
and perfectly. No knife or tool is needed to remove the bats.
Plus, you have instant use of the wheelhead without a bat.
But this system has major drawbacks in a school setting: The bats take
up a lot of storage space, and they cannot be used with many splash
pan designs. Neither is a concern for me.
I also attach plain flat bats with a thrown pad of clay, but this is not a
good system for a school and is too difficult for beginners (a whole
'nother piece of clay that has to be centered).
I am absolutely sure that wheel makers could come up with a good
system, but because of the entrenched inertia of bat pins it probably
won't happen.
My old Pacifica has tapped holes for the bat pins, so I simply screwed
down the headless screws to be level with the wheelhead, so they
cause no problem.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
http://www.thewahooligans.com
KATHI LESUEUR on mon 17 oct 11
On Oct 17, 2011, at 4:40 PM, David Hendley wrote:
> Wire Rabbit:
> What's wrong with you, reviving the bat pin debate while I am away at =3D
an
> art festival?........
>=3D20
> It is a horrible system. When I travel to do workshops I never, and I =3D
mean
> never, am able to simply sit down at a wheel and throw a pot. At least =
=3D
5
> minutes is spent trying to find a "good" bat, even if I just want to =3D
throw
> small items off the hump and don't even want to use a bat. Usually, a
> sympathetic student will give me one form their hoarded private stash,
> but sometimes I have to make do with a shifting bat. Ker-clunk, =3D
ker-clunk,
> ker-clunk.>>>
>=3D20
I don't know what people are doing to make bats that use bat pins be =3D
such a problem. When I set up my studio in 1977 I went to my lumber yard =
=3D
and had them rip tempered masonite into squares of varying sizes--4", =3D
6", and 8". I then bought some plastic bats and cut out the centers so =3D
that they would hold the various sizes of bats. With a notch on one side =
=3D
it is easy to slip a screw driver in to pop the bat out. I drilled holes =
=3D
on the plastic bats to fit my bat pins. I, also, had a bunch of formica =3D
bats cut into rounds of varying sizes. I drilled holes in these for bat =3D
pins. It is now thirty years later. I'm using the same plastic and =3D
formica bats. I've never had a problem with the pins being loose on =3D
them. Some of the masonite bats have been replaced, but most are thirty =3D
years and more old. This system allows me to store over 100 bats in a =3D
very small space. =3D20
This system has allowed me to work very fast. Pop a bat in, throw a mug =3D
in two minutes, pop it out and put a new bat in. Other forms require =3D
more time. Sometimes they require being placed back on the wheel and =3D
worked a little more. I carve lots of things. When they are leather hard =
=3D
I just put them back on the wheel and they are held in place. I don't =3D
have warping with these bats. They are all flat.=3D20
While I don't make 20# pots (my shoulder can't handle it), I do make 12# =
=3D
and occasionally 16# pots and have never had a problem with a bat being =3D
secure on the wheel.
I used this system when I taught at Boysville. I made bats for my class =3D
the first year. My kids had a low frustration level and I wanted to make =
=3D
it as easy as possible for them to use the wheel. When I resigned six =3D
years later we were still using the same bats with no problem. And, I =3D
guarantee, my kids were not careful. Last fall I was contacted by a =3D
former student. He's fifty now and been making pots for a number of =3D
years. When I went to visit him there in his studio was the same bat =3D
system. He's used the same bats for years without a problem.=3D20
So, I don't know why any of you are having such a problem and I =3D
definitely recommend the use of bat pins, especially for people just =3D
starting out.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
=3D20=3D
Carl Cravens on mon 17 oct 11
Bum teacher... I considered that. His passion was jewelry. Most of the spac=
=3D
e was devoted to that.
I think we had two pottery wheels and a small kiln,=3D
but there were four torch setups, two investment vacuums, an investment mo=
=3D
ld oven, two centrifugal casters, multiple polishing wheels, a vibrating ac=
=3D
id etch tank, and more hand tools than I could count.
He was always workin=3D
g on a piece of jewelry. So maybe he just wasn't interested enough in clay =
=3D
to get good at teaching it. I do feel like my hand-building instruction lac=
=3D
ked something, now that I've learned more about why I had trouble with it t=
=3D
hen. I still appreciate the challenges of being a HS art teacher expected t=
=3D
o teach many different disciplines. And I am glad to have taken silversmith=
=3D
ing and other classes with him.
I'm just glad I discovered the wheel in th=3D
e end.
Steven Branfman on thu 26 jul 12
To Gregg Lindsley; You questioned the history and significance of bat pins =
=3D
being 10" apart. How dare you rock the boat. You're on the verge of anarchy=
=3D
. Bat pins are 10" apart because that's the way they are, period. No need t=
=3D
o question the status quo. This is catamount to a revolution. Stay home and=
=3D
be quiet.
Steven
BTW: The bat pins on my old Shimpo are much smaller and 11" apart.
Steven Branfman
43 Chinian Path
Newton, MA 02459
ph: 617/964 0442
cell: 617/447 3500
studio: 781/449 7687
fax: 781/449 9098
Will you join me in helping to rid the world of childhood cancer? Please su=
=3D
pport my efforts in the Pan Mass Challenge http://www.pmc.org/profile/SB015=
=3D
9
=3D20
Steve Slatin on fri 27 jul 12
There are different standards for bat pins ... the 10 inch diameter 1/4 inc=
=3D
h=3D0Apins are currently the standard.=3DA0 But Plasti-bat makes an adapter=
to =3D
allow=3D0Athe use of 6 inch diameter pins, and there are the old Shimpo pin=
s =3D
that=3D0Awere (I think) 3/16 inch and 11 inches diameter, but the shimpo as=
pi=3D
re=3D0Auses a smaller-diameter configuration, and I have an old Soldner=3D0=
Awhe=3D
el that has 3 pins in a triangular configuration (and the pins are larger=
=3D
=3D0Athan the 10 inch diameter pins) which is a MUCH more stable configurat=
io=3D
n=3D0Athan any 2-pin configuration could be.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0ABut if you've ev=
er dealt=3D
with two different wheels with two different=3D0Apinning systems, or pin-l=
es=3D
s systems like the one David Hendley uses=3D0Abut with wheels with differen=
t =3D
diameters, you know how incredibly=3D0Aannoying it is to have to keep two d=
if=3D
ferent sets of bats, or mess with=3D0Abat adapters.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AOne of th=
e puzzle=3D
s of mass production is that a freedom from standards=3D0Acreates an econom=
ic=3D
space where innovation is easy and not too costly --=3D0Abut end-user cost=
s =3D
are almost always significantly lower when there is=3D0Aa single standard, =
an=3D
d manufacturers compete on price.=3D0A=3D0ASteve Slatin -- =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AN=
48.0886450=3D
=3D0AW123.1420482
William & Susan Schran User on fri 27 jul 12
On 7/26/12 7:54 PM, "Steven Branfman" wrote:
>To Gregg Lindsley; You questioned the history and significance of bat
>pins being 10" apart. How dare you rock the boat. You're on the verge of
>anarchy. Bat pins are 10" apart because that's the way they are, period.
>No need to question the status quo. This is catamount to a revolution.
>Stay home and be quiet.
Yay, Steven is really back!
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Steve Mills on fri 27 jul 12
On 27 Jul 2012, at 15:30, William & Susan Schran User wro=
t=3D
e:
> On 7/26/12 7:54 PM, "Steven Branfman" wrote:
>> No need to question the status quo. This is catamount to a revolution.
>> Stay home and be quiet.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Yay, Steven is really back!
>=3D20
> Bill
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
>=3D20
Hmmmmm! Not quite maybe:
Catamount: 1.
a wild animal of the cat family, especially the cougar or the lynx. =3D20
I THINK he meant "Tantamount" ??
:-)
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my iPod
Gregg Lindsley on fri 27 jul 12
Yes, Steve, I admit to rocking the boat again. It all started when an
acquaintance introduced me to a Red Stripe, and ever since, I've been
unable to control myself......
Keep 'on rockin' , in your chair in your case.
--
Gregg Lindsley
Earth and Fire Pottery
P.O. Box 402
Cobb, Ca., 95426
707-490-7168
www.earthandfirepottery.net
"Tomorrow is just your future yesterday"
Cwiddershins on fri 27 jul 12
I work on the Woodley and Kerokuro, so my "bat pins" are wads of clay. T=
h=3D
e Woodley's head is below the pan, so a couple thick bats are necessary. =
=3D20=3D
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DC3=3DB3g ar chul an tI=3DE2=3D80=3D94tIr dlainn trina ch=
=3DC3=3DA9ile"=3DE2=3D
=3D80=3D94that is, "The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue --sent from my iPod
Taylor Hendrix on fri 27 jul 12
Bat pins are for wimps. I say, "Down with non-tangential, eccentric
impediments! Up with unencumbered wheel heads!"
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
https://youtube.com/thewirerabbit
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Cwiddershins wrot=
=3D
e:
> I work on the Woodley and Kerokuro, so my "bat pins" are wads of clay.
> The Woodley's head is below the pan, so a couple thick bats are necessar=
=3D
y.
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> "Ta tIr na n-=3DC3=3DB3g ar chul an tI=3DE2=3D80=3D94tIr dlainn trina ch=
=3DC3=3DA9ile"=3D
=3DE2=3D80=3D94that is, "The
> land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
> within itself." -- John O'Donohue --sent from my iPod
>
Steven Branfman on fri 27 jul 12
What do you know? I guess I am!!! ;-)
Steven
43 Chinian Path
Newton, MA 02459
ph: 617/964 0442
cell: 617/447 3500
studio: 781/449 7687
fax: 781/449 9098
Will you join me in helping to rid the world of childhood cancer? Please su=
=3D
pport my efforts in the Pan Mass Challenge http://www.pmc.org/profile/SB015=
=3D
9
-----Original Message-----
From: William & Susan Schran User
To: Steven Branfman ; Clayart =3D
>
Sent: Fri, Jul 27, 2012 10:30 am
Subject: Re: bat pins
On 7/26/12 7:54 PM, "Steven Branfman" wrote:
>To Gregg Lindsley; You questioned the history and significance of bat
>pins being 10" apart. How dare you rock the boat. You're on the verge of
>anarchy. Bat pins are 10" apart because that's the way they are, period.
>No need to question the status quo. This is catamount to a revolution.
>Stay home and be quiet.
Yay, Steven is really back!
Bill
--=3D20
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
=3D20
Lee on sat 28 jul 12
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Taylor Hendrix wro=
=3D
te:
> Bat pins are for wimps. I say, "Down with non-tangential, eccentric
> impediments! Up with unencumbered wheel heads!"
To use my GiffenGrip, I have to put a bat on top of the Woodley's
wheelhead, to bring it above the splash tray. Haven't used it an a
long time! The Giffen will fit right on the Kerokuro.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
David Woof on sat 28 jul 12
Taylor=3D2C
OK Chuckie=3D2C High Noon tomorrow!!! You name the location. We'll see who =
is=3D
the Wimp!!! (smile)
Seriously I don't think you have been around long enough to back up such a =
=3D
sweeping statement=3D2C there fore back to the high noon call!!!
Love=3D2C
Woof........wired for a wabbit! come and watch me throw (cross draw) two p=
=3D
ots simultaneously on two wheels each rotating directionally opposite.
Then we can discuss yer lack of ability to handle bat pins. Si? Remembe=
=3D
r: there is a time to use them and a time to run barefoot..."Bat pins" I me=
=3D
an to say.
________________________________________________________________________
h. Re: bat pins
Posted by: "Taylor Hendrix" wirerabbit2@GMAIL.COM=3D20
Date: Fri Jul 27=3D2C 2012 2:48 pm ((PDT))=3D20
Bat pins are for wimps. I say=3D2C "Down with non-tangential=3D2C eccentric=
impe=3D
diments! Up with unencumbered wheel heads!" =
=3D
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