Nina Jones on fri 22 oct 99
------------------
Hi, Everybody=21
Okay, I'm going to jump in with the stupid questions: The canvas and tar =
paper
bats don't move around when you are centering? How much clay can you throw
using these batless bats? And when you are throwing with a plasti-bat--is =
there
a trick to keeping the pot from sticking to the bat so that you don't have =
to
cut it off again when removing it from the bat to trim?
I've started throwing on bats only because I'm making some really wide bowls=
and
platters that I can't remove from the bare wheelhead without warping. My =
tiny
pots I throw off the hump, my larger pots I throw right on the wheelhead and
lift off using a scissor-finger lift or pot-lifts, right onto a wooden bat =
next
to my wheel. I started throwing on the wheel head because the bats at =
school
were always warped and always popping off the pins because the holes were so
worn. So one of the instructors taught me how to =22hydroplane=22 the pot =
off the
wheelhead. You wet the wheel down and bring some of the water under the pot
with the wire as you cut it off, then skim the pot off the wheel, sliding it=
off
over the layer of water. Takes me less than 10 seconds. But for the larger
and/or wider pots . . . well, I've lost too many pots. So I'm back to the =
bats.
TIA for any suggestions.
Nina D. Jones
Southside Chicago
=40 njones=40winston.com =22She held her new forming self in the center of =
her being,
pulling carefully as this New Self took shape in her heart's hands, like =
clay on
a potter's wheel.=22 From ReCreation, N.D. Jones
=3E=3E=3E Dannon Rhudy =3Cpotter=40koyote.com=3E 10/21/99 10:06AM =3E=3E=3E
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Canvas bats work very well for many applications. I don't go to
any trouble to make mine, just cut squares smaller than the
diameter of the wheel head. I believe Vince Pitelka wrote a very
detailed, careful explanation of these, also, some time back,
and it is probably in the archives.
Regards,
Dannon Rhudy
potter=40koyote.com
At 05:02 PM 10/20/99 EDT, you wrote:
=3E----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3EHello everyone,
=3E
=3Eindeed forget bats is what I found out when I saw someone throw on a =
piece
=3Eof canvas... no pins, no clicking sound, no warping... Hmmmm...
=3E
=3EMake sure you shrink the canvas before cutting it and iron it -- this =
stuff
=3Eusually gets pretty wrinkled. Waterproof glue is used to outline a band
=3Ewhere the circle is to be cut. The glue will keep the threads from =
coming
=3Eapart after the canvas is cut and lodging themselves in the clay.
=3E
=3EOnce ready to use the dry canvas is applied to the wheel head with slip =
or
=3Ewhat was left at the bottom of your slurry bucket from the last time your
=3Ethrew. You won't need much. You are now ready to throw as usual.
=3E
=3EWhen ready to cut the pot off, just cut between the canvas and the wheel
=3Ehead=3B no more messy cuts. Slide the piece off the wheel head.
=3E
=3EOnce leather hard, the canvas peels off the bottom of the pot leaving a
=3Eslightly rough bottom since the canvas is not perfectly smooth. It
=3Eactually doesn't need to be trimmed unless you choose to.
=3E
=3EOne disadvantage is that unlike the bat, you can't just plop the canvas
=3Eback on the wheel head and keep going after you have removed it. The =
other
=3Eis that if you throw bigger than the wheel head, you still will need a =
bat=3B
=3Eit's only good for smaller items.
=3E
=3EI was told that this technique was learned from Kathi Cobb, a Boston =
potter
=3Ea the time.
=3E
=3EIt might be worth a try if you don't like bats :)
=3E
=3E
=3E--
=3EFaye http://clay.justnet.com
=3E
=3E Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
=3E I can reproduce them exactly.
=3E
Paul Taylor on sat 23 oct 99
Dear Every body
If you can tap center do not waste your time move on to the next letter.
I use bats when ever possible it makes life so much easyer. The clay
seems only to remember the abuse it suffers so if you are making pottery for
a living it is less disturbing to the pot and quicker to use a bat . I use
marine plywood bats of various sizes up to 18 inches wide . the bats are
secured on a thrown wad of clay as wide as possible about a quarter to a
half inch thick. What allowes me to do this so simply is that I can TAP
CENTER looking at the correspondence I have the felling it is a forgotten
technique . It is not difficult to learn, it takes practice a lot of
practice. After throwing it is the most useful pottery skill there is . I
can understand why students use pinned bats . But if you want to be free
lean to tap center.
I can understand that it is a skill You have to know exists and that one
lazy tutor can break the chain . Its advantages, you can center any thing
in a fraction of a second and if the object is excentric you can center
different places like the rim or the belly or the base. To learn all you do
is tap the side of a pot until it is centered. Mugs turned on a chuck is
how I leaned but a round paint tin will do . It will seem impossible at
first but perseverance over a few weeks will do it.
good luck Paul
>From: Nina Jones
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Forget Bats! ??
>Date: Fri, Oct 22, 1999, 3:32 pm
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>------------------
>
>Hi, Everybody!
>
>Okay, I'm going to jump in with the stupid questions: The canvas and tar paper
>bats don't move around when you are centering? How much clay can you throw
>using these batless bats? And when you are throwing with a plasti-bat--is ther
>a trick to keeping the pot from sticking to the bat so that you don't have to
>cut it off again when removing it from the bat to trim?
>
>I've started throwing on bats only because I'm making some really wide bowls an
>platters that I can't remove from the bare wheelhead without warping. My tiny
>pots I throw off the hump, my larger pots I throw right on the wheelhead and
>lift off using a scissor-finger lift or pot-lifts, right onto a wooden bat next
>to my wheel. I started throwing on the wheel head because the bats at school
>were always warped and always popping off the pins because the holes were so
>worn. So one of the instructors taught me how to "hydroplane" the pot off the
>wheelhead. You wet the wheel down and bring some of the water under the pot
>with the wire as you cut it off, then skim the pot off the wheel, sliding it of
>over the layer of water. Takes me less than 10 seconds. But for the larger
>and/or wider pots . . . well, I've lost too many pots. So I'm back to the bats
>TIA for any suggestions.
>
>Nina D. Jones
>Southside Chicago
>@ njones@winston.com "She held her new forming self in the center of her being,
>pulling carefully as this New Self took shape in her heart's hands, like clay o
>a potter's wheel." From ReCreation, N.D. Jones
>
>>>> Dannon Rhudy 10/21/99 10:06AM >>>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>Canvas bats work very well for many applications. I don't go to
>any trouble to make mine, just cut squares smaller than the
>diameter of the wheel head. I believe Vince Pitelka wrote a very
>detailed, careful explanation of these, also, some time back,
>and it is probably in the archives.
>
>Regards,
>
>Dannon Rhudy
>potter@koyote.com
>
>At 05:02 PM 10/20/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Hello everyone,
>>
>>indeed forget bats is what I found out when I saw someone throw on a piece
>>of canvas... no pins, no clicking sound, no warping... Hmmmm...
>>
>>Make sure you shrink the canvas before cutting it and iron it -- this stuff
>>usually gets pretty wrinkled. Waterproof glue is used to outline a band
>>where the circle is to be cut. The glue will keep the threads from coming
>>apart after the canvas is cut and lodging themselves in the clay.
>>
>>Once ready to use the dry canvas is applied to the wheel head with slip or
>>what was left at the bottom of your slurry bucket from the last time your
>>threw. You won't need much. You are now ready to throw as usual.
>>
>>When ready to cut the pot off, just cut between the canvas and the wheel
>>head; no more messy cuts. Slide the piece off the wheel head.
>>
>>Once leather hard, the canvas peels off the bottom of the pot leaving a
>>slightly rough bottom since the canvas is not perfectly smooth. It
>>actually doesn't need to be trimmed unless you choose to.
>>
>>One disadvantage is that unlike the bat, you can't just plop the canvas
>>back on the wheel head and keep going after you have removed it. The other
>>is that if you throw bigger than the wheel head, you still will need a bat;
>>it's only good for smaller items.
>>
>>I was told that this technique was learned from Kathi Cobb, a Boston potter
>>a the time.
>>
>>It might be worth a try if you don't like bats :)
>>
>>
>>--
>>Faye http://clay.justnet.com
>>
>> Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
>> I can reproduce them exactly.
>>
Dave Finkelnburg on tue 26 oct 99
Paul,
I couldn't agree more that tap centering is a fabulously usefu pottery
skill. I also don't happen to have it. :-( I have seen it demonstrated,
and I have tried it, but I just can't seem to get the idea. I wind up with
every piece further off center than when I put it on the wheel head. Can
you explain how you went about learning this skill, and are there any tips
on how to make this work? I'd sure appreciate enlightenment. I've been
fussing with this for four months and I've gotten frustrated but no further.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Dave Finkelnburg in sunny southern Idaho
dfinkeln@cyberhighway.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Taylor
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Saturday, October 23, 1999 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: Forget Bats! ??
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Dear Every body
> If you can tap center do not waste your time move on to the next letter.
> I use bats when ever possible it makes life so much easyer. The clay
>seems only to remember the abuse it suffers so if you are making pottery
for
>a living it is less disturbing to the pot and quicker to use a bat . I use
>marine plywood bats of various sizes up to 18 inches wide . the bats are
>secured on a thrown wad of clay as wide as possible about a quarter to a
>half inch thick. What allowes me to do this so simply is that I can TAP
>CENTER looking at the correspondence I have the felling it is a forgotten
>technique . It is not difficult to learn, it takes practice a lot of
>practice. After throwing it is the most useful pottery skill there is . I
>can understand why students use pinned bats . But if you want to be free
>lean to tap center.
> I can understand that it is a skill You have to know exists and that one
>lazy tutor can break the chain . Its advantages, you can center any thing
>in a fraction of a second and if the object is excentric you can center
>different places like the rim or the belly or the base. To learn all you
do
>is tap the side of a pot until it is centered. Mugs turned on a chuck is
>how I leaned but a round paint tin will do . It will seem impossible at
>first but perseverance over a few weeks will do it.
>
> good luck Paul
>>From: Nina Jones
>>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>>Subject: Re: Forget Bats! ??
>>Date: Fri, Oct 22, 1999, 3:32 pm
>>
>
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>------------------
>>
>>Hi, Everybody!
>>
>>Okay, I'm going to jump in with the stupid questions: The canvas and tar
paper
>>bats don't move around when you are centering? How much clay can you
throw
>>using these batless bats? And when you are throwing with a plasti-bat--is
ther
>>a trick to keeping the pot from sticking to the bat so that you don't have
to
>>cut it off again when removing it from the bat to trim?
>>
>>I've started throwing on bats only because I'm making some really wide
bowls an
>>platters that I can't remove from the bare wheelhead without warping. My
tiny
>>pots I throw off the hump, my larger pots I throw right on the wheelhead
and
>>lift off using a scissor-finger lift or pot-lifts, right onto a wooden bat
next
>>to my wheel. I started throwing on the wheel head because the bats at
school
>>were always warped and always popping off the pins because the holes were
so
>>worn. So one of the instructors taught me how to "hydroplane" the pot off
the
>>wheelhead. You wet the wheel down and bring some of the water under the
pot
>>with the wire as you cut it off, then skim the pot off the wheel, sliding
it of
>>over the layer of water. Takes me less than 10 seconds. But for the
larger
>>and/or wider pots . . . well, I've lost too many pots. So I'm back to the
bats
>>TIA for any suggestions.
>>
>>Nina D. Jones
>>Southside Chicago
>>@ njones@winston.com "She held her new forming self in the center of her
being,
>>pulling carefully as this New Self took shape in her heart's hands, like
clay o
>>a potter's wheel." From ReCreation, N.D. Jones
>>
>>>>> Dannon Rhudy 10/21/99 10:06AM >>>
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>
>>Canvas bats work very well for many applications. I don't go to
>>any trouble to make mine, just cut squares smaller than the
>>diameter of the wheel head. I believe Vince Pitelka wrote a very
>>detailed, careful explanation of these, also, some time back,
>>and it is probably in the archives.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Dannon Rhudy
>>potter@koyote.com
>>
>>At 05:02 PM 10/20/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>>Hello everyone,
>>>
>>>indeed forget bats is what I found out when I saw someone throw on a
piece
>>>of canvas... no pins, no clicking sound, no warping... Hmmmm...
>>>
>>>Make sure you shrink the canvas before cutting it and iron it -- this
stuff
>>>usually gets pretty wrinkled. Waterproof glue is used to outline a band
>>>where the circle is to be cut. The glue will keep the threads from
coming
>>>apart after the canvas is cut and lodging themselves in the clay.
>>>
>>>Once ready to use the dry canvas is applied to the wheel head with slip
or
>>>what was left at the bottom of your slurry bucket from the last time your
>>>threw. You won't need much. You are now ready to throw as usual.
>>>
>>>When ready to cut the pot off, just cut between the canvas and the wheel
>>>head; no more messy cuts. Slide the piece off the wheel head.
>>>
>>>Once leather hard, the canvas peels off the bottom of the pot leaving a
>>>slightly rough bottom since the canvas is not perfectly smooth. It
>>>actually doesn't need to be trimmed unless you choose to.
>>>
>>>One disadvantage is that unlike the bat, you can't just plop the canvas
>>>back on the wheel head and keep going after you have removed it. The
other
>>>is that if you throw bigger than the wheel head, you still will need a
bat;
>>>it's only good for smaller items.
>>>
>>>I was told that this technique was learned from Kathi Cobb, a Boston
potter
>>>a the time.
>>>
>>>It might be worth a try if you don't like bats :)
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Faye http://clay.justnet.com
>>>
>>> Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
>>> I can reproduce them exactly.
>>>
>
Hank Murrow on wed 27 oct 99
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Paul,
> I couldn't agree more that tap centering is a fabulously usefu pottery
>skill. I also don't happen to have it. :-( I have seen it demonstrated,
>and I have tried it, but I just can't seem to get the idea. I wind up with
>every piece further off center than when I put it on the wheel head. Can
>you explain how you went about learning this skill, and are there any tips
>on how to make this work? I'd sure appreciate enlightenment. I've been
>fussing with this for four months and I've gotten frustrated but no further.
>Thanks for any suggestions. Dave Finkelnburg
Good Morning Dave; In 1958 at U of Oregon I saw my teacher Bob James
tapping pots into center and asked him how to do it and he replied, "Make a
bunch of little bowls (less tippy when turned over) and tap them on the
right side when you see them move away from you as they are turning. Then
tap them down to 'stick' them to the wheel." This was for counterclockwise
direction of course. I made the bowls and learned the tapping in about an
hour; and it has never left me. Just try tapping about a 1/4 turn 'behind'
the eccentricity of the pot's motion and you'll find it. Good Luck, Hank in
Eugene
Paul Taylor on wed 27 oct 99
Dear Dave
I learnt by turning hundreds of mugs on a chuck made of clay. If I
remember rightly I had great difficulty but little choice since I had to
turn the things. The chuck meant the pot did not spin of if I got it wrong
.I started by putting the mugs on the chuck as straight as I possibly could
then I let the mug go round half centering as if throwing half taping. sort
of guiding it with light taps. I had to catch a few but if I cradled the mug
with both hands although guiding sometimes taping mainly with my right hand
I didn't loose too many mugs ; and very slowly the skill grew on me as I did
more taping than guiding. eventualy just taping; and now a single or double
tap does it.
It still amazes me, probably because the skill is totaly devoid of
intelect .I do not think anybody knows how it's done. I improved so
imperceptibly that there was not a day when I could say I can do this, some
days were better than others it took a lot of determination it did help that
all around me took the skill for granted.
My friend however learnt just practicing on a paint tin a little
every morning but he was more talented than I.. I think I may have been a
little glib in my letter but if I can learn any one can.
So maybe that means you have to do some production throwing. I
usually suggest flower pots cause you can easily recoup the costs and you do
not have to be too precious. Mugs are good easy to sell and once you have
learnt on a small object the big stuff takes care of it,s self.
John leach learnt to tap center with his left hand so he does not
have to put the brush he is decorating with down. I tried but it is as if I
am having to start again so I knowhow you feel. but I am getting better. The
skill is so worth having. It doubles my confidence in handling pots on a
wheel or worler.
Paul
----------
>From: Dave Finkelnburg
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Forget Bats! ??
>Date: Tue, Oct 26, 1999, 4:35 pm
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Paul,
> I couldn't agree more that tap centering is a fabulously usefu pottery
>skill. I also don't happen to have it. :-( I have seen it demonstrated,
>and I have tried it, but I just can't seem to get the idea. I wind up with
>every piece further off center than when I put it on the wheel head. Can
>you explain how you went about learning this skill, and are there any tips
>on how to make this work? I'd sure appreciate enlightenment. I've been
>fussing with this for four months and I've gotten frustrated but no further.
>Thanks for any suggestions.
> Dave Finkelnburg in sunny southern Idaho
> dfinkeln@cyberhighway.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Taylor
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Date: Saturday, October 23, 1999 8:57 PM
>Subject: Re: Forget Bats! ??
>
>
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Dear Every body
>> If you can tap center do not waste your time move on to the next letter.
>> I use bats when ever possible it makes life so much easyer. The clay
>>seems only to remember the abuse it suffers so if you are making pottery
>for
>>a living it is less disturbing to the pot and quicker to use a bat . I use
>>marine plywood bats of various sizes up to 18 inches wide . the bats are
>>secured on a thrown wad of clay as wide as possible about a quarter to a
>>half inch thick. What allowes me to do this so simply is that I can TAP
>>CENTER looking at the correspondence I have the felling it is a forgotten
>>technique . It is not difficult to learn, it takes practice a lot of
>>practice. After throwing it is the most useful pottery skill there is . I
>>can understand why students use pinned bats . But if you want to be free
>>lean to tap center.
>> I can understand that it is a skill You have to know exists and that one
>>lazy tutor can break the chain . Its advantages, you can center any thing
>>in a fraction of a second and if the object is excentric you can center
>>different places like the rim or the belly or the base. To learn all you
>do
>>is tap the side of a pot until it is centered. Mugs turned on a chuck is
>>how I leaned but a round paint tin will do . It will seem impossible at
>>first but perseverance over a few weeks will do it.
>>
>> good luck Paul
>>>From: Nina Jones
>>>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>>>Subject: Re: Forget Bats! ??
>>>Date: Fri, Oct 22, 1999, 3:32 pm
>>>
>>
>>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>>------------------
>>>
>>>Hi, Everybody!
>>>
>>>Okay, I'm going to jump in with the stupid questions: The canvas and tar
>paper
>>>bats don't move around when you are centering? How much clay can you
>throw
>>>using these batless bats? And when you are throwing with a plasti-bat--is
>ther
>>>a trick to keeping the pot from sticking to the bat so that you don't have
>to
>>>cut it off again when removing it from the bat to trim?
>>>
>>>I've started throwing on bats only because I'm making some really wide
>bowls an
>>>platters that I can't remove from the bare wheelhead without warping. My
>tiny
>>>pots I throw off the hump, my larger pots I throw right on the wheelhead
>and
>>>lift off using a scissor-finger lift or pot-lifts, right onto a wooden bat
>next
>>>to my wheel. I started throwing on the wheel head because the bats at
>school
>>>were always warped and always popping off the pins because the holes were
>so
>>>worn. So one of the instructors taught me how to "hydroplane" the pot off
>the
>>>wheelhead. You wet the wheel down and bring some of the water under the
>pot
>>>with the wire as you cut it off, then skim the pot off the wheel, sliding
>it of
>>>over the layer of water. Takes me less than 10 seconds. But for the
>larger
>>>and/or wider pots . . . well, I've lost too many pots. So I'm back to the
>bats
>>>TIA for any suggestions.
>>>
>>>Nina D. Jones
>>>Southside Chicago
>>>@ njones@winston.com "She held her new forming self in the center of her
>being,
>>>pulling carefully as this New Self took shape in her heart's hands, like
>clay o
>>>a potter's wheel." From ReCreation, N.D. Jones
>>>
>>>>>> Dannon Rhudy 10/21/99 10:06AM >>>
>>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>>
>>>Canvas bats work very well for many applications. I don't go to
>>>any trouble to make mine, just cut squares smaller than the
>>>diameter of the wheel head. I believe Vince Pitelka wrote a very
>>>detailed, careful explanation of these, also, some time back,
>>>and it is probably in the archives.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Dannon Rhudy
>>>potter@koyote.com
>>>
>>>At 05:02 PM 10/20/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>>>Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>>indeed forget bats is what I found out when I saw someone throw on a
>piece
>>>>of canvas... no pins, no clicking sound, no warping... Hmmmm...
>>>>
>>>>Make sure you shrink the canvas before cutting it and iron it -- this
>stuff
>>>>usually gets pretty wrinkled. Waterproof glue is used to outline a band
>>>>where the circle is to be cut. The glue will keep the threads from
>coming
>>>>apart after the canvas is cut and lodging themselves in the clay.
>>>>
>>>>Once ready to use the dry canvas is applied to the wheel head with slip
>or
>>>>what was left at the bottom of your slurry bucket from the last time your
>>>>threw. You won't need much. You are now ready to throw as usual.
>>>>
>>>>When ready to cut the pot off, just cut between the canvas and the wheel
>>>>head; no more messy cuts. Slide the piece off the wheel head.
>>>>
>>>>Once leather hard, the canvas peels off the bottom of the pot leaving a
>>>>slightly rough bottom since the canvas is not perfectly smooth. It
>>>>actually doesn't need to be trimmed unless you choose to.
>>>>
>>>>One disadvantage is that unlike the bat, you can't just plop the canvas
>>>>back on the wheel head and keep going after you have removed it. The
>other
>>>>is that if you throw bigger than the wheel head, you still will need a
>bat;
>>>>it's only good for smaller items.
>>>>
>>>>I was told that this technique was learned from Kathi Cobb, a Boston
>potter
>>>>a the time.
>>>>
>>>>It might be worth a try if you don't like bats :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Faye http://clay.justnet.com
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
>>>> I can reproduce them exactly.
>>>>
>>
Dr.Tom Roess on wed 27 oct 99
------------------
Dave, The easiest way to tap center is as follows. First, do not use a
bat when you are trimming. Use the circles on the wheelhead to put your
pot as close to center as you can get it. This may be all you need to do.
To tell if it is centered, curl your left hand around the pot and hold
your left middle finger steady at 1 o'clock on the pot. As your pot slowly
comes around, your finger will be at varying distances from the pot if the
pot is not centered. When the pot contacts the finger of your left hand,
tap with your right hand, right middle finger, or heel of your right hand
(which ever feels easiest) at three o'clock.This will push the pot toward
center. This method tells you how much you are off and, consequently, how
hard to tap to get on center. When your pot is centered, your left middle
finger will be in contact with the pot during its entire travel.
Let me know if you have success with this method. I'd be
interested.
Thanks, Lou in Snowmass.
| |
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