Dannon Rhudy on sun 31 oct 99
Sodium Bicarbonate does indeed work, too, though it
seems to me it does not flash quite as well - or maybe
it needs more of it. I know several people who fire with
bicarbonate of soda rather than soda ash - they say it is
easier on the kiln.
Regards,
Dannon Rhudy
At 12:46 PM 10/30/99 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>At the risk of sounding unbearably stupid, what is soda ash? Is this your
>lingo for sodium carbonate (Na2CO3)? I have used sodium bicarbonate -the
>common, cooking kind - in much the same way. Or are you talking about
>something entirely different?...
>
>Vera Rankovic
>vrankovic@sezampro.yu
>http://www.geocities.com/verasart/
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jeff Campana
>To:
>Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 15:04
>Subject: Re: ???Soda wash will stick
>
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> Anji,
>>
>> Pads, also called wads or cookies, can be easily made. Simply take about
>3
>> and a half scoops of Kaolin and 3 scoops of alumina hydrate, mix in with
>> some water until it is a soft plastic consistancy. The high amount of
>> alumina with resist the soda, and fall right off the pot after firing,
>also
>> leaving nice decorative circles where the flashing did not occur. To
>apply
>> these to the bottom of the pots, take three or four small balls and glue
>> them to the bottom of your pot with elmer's glue. Then turn it right side
>> up, and press lightly to level the pot and flatten the wads. I've also
>> seen these wads pre-cut from coils and bisqued, and set on the kiln shelf
>> under the pots, or hot-glued on. This is common and required practice for
>> salt firing, and the effect of the soda ash is somewhat like a saltglaze.
>>
>> Question: My professor told me that the soluble soda ash will leach into
>> the clay body and flux it, causing slumping on fragile forms like wide
>> bowls and plattes with ring feet. Any experiences of slumping with the
>> soda wash?
>>
>> Anji Henderson wrote:
>>
>> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> > In reading this it reminds me of something once told
>> > with in my ear shot........ "you can not stilt HF"...
>> > Is this so??? And what are pads???
>> > Just wondering..
>> > Anji
>> >
>> > --- Lynne Antone wrote:
>> > > ----------------------------Original
>> > > message----------------------------
>> > > In a message dated 10/26/1999 8:35:50 AM Pacific
>> > > Daylight Time,
>> > > millie@bcpl.net writes:
>> > >
>> > > << at the risk of exposing my ignorance. Can you
>> > > dip a pot into the soda
>> > > solution? and does it have to be wiped off the
>> > > bottom in order to avoid
>> > > sticking to the shelf.? >>
>> > >
>> > > Cheryl,
>> > >
>> > > As I recall the instructions from Dannon (we'll see
>> > > if I was a good student),
>> > > you can get the soda ash wash on the bottom of the
>> > > pot, but need to put down
>> > > pads to keep it from sticking to the shelf. I always
>> > > applied the wash to very
>> > > textured areas, so it was too difficult to wash them
>> > > up completely. I waxed
>> > > some first and tried the pads with others. Both ways
>> > > work fine.
>> > >
>> > > I think it's best to paint the wash on, sometimes
>> > > just one coat will give you
>> > > enough shine. And whatever you don't use of the
>> > > wash, if left sitting for
>> > > very long, will separate out into crystals. I just
>> > > carefully reheat it in the
>> > > microwave just until melted again, trying not to
>> > > boil the wash. I have never
>> > > mixed up more than 1/2 cup at a time.
>> > >
>> > > Lynne Antone
>> > > Olympia WA
>> > >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
Gavin Stairs on mon 1 nov 99
Hi Dannon,
Bicarb has less sodium (NaHCO3 vs Na2CO3), so you need about 1.55 more
bicarb for the same Na content. That may be why it seems less effective,
and also why they say it is kinder to the kiln. Bicarb breaks down in
water to:
NaHCO3 + H2O -> Na+ + H3O+ + CO3--
Excess CO3 bubbles away into the air as CO3, by 2(H3O+) + CO3-- -> 3(H2O) +
CO2^. That's the fizz. The rest of the CO3 combines with water to make
H2CO3, leaving some OH- around, which combines with the H3O+ to make water,
so the result is about neutral, acid/base.
Soda Ash breaks down as Na2CO3 -> 2(Na+) + CO3--. The CO3 behaves about
the same, but without the excess H3O+, this results in a basic
reaction. Essentially the same as NaOH, lye.
So bicarb is easier on your hands, because it isn't a strong base, but I
don't think your kiln will notice. Dry, on your ware, they will both be
some form of NaOH plus some Na2CO3, with a bit of NaCl, if you use
chlorinated tap water.
Gavin
At 11:23 PM 31/10/99 , you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>Sodium Bicarbonate does indeed work, too, though it
>seems to me it does not flash quite as well - or maybe
>it needs more of it. I know several people who fire with
>bicarbonate of soda rather than soda ash - they say it is
>easier on the kiln.
>
>Regards,
>
>Dannon Rhudy
>
>
>At 12:46 PM 10/30/99 EDT, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >At the risk of sounding unbearably stupid, what is soda ash? Is this your
> >lingo for sodium carbonate (Na2CO3)? I have used sodium bicarbonate -the
> >common, cooking kind - in much the same way. Or are you talking about
> >something entirely different?...
> >
> >Vera Rankovic
> >vrankovic@sezampro.yu
> >http://www.geocities.com/verasart/
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Jeff Campana
> >To:
> >Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 15:04
> >Subject: Re: ???Soda wash will stick
> >
> >
> >> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >> Anji,
> >>
> >> Pads, also called wads or cookies, can be easily made. Simply take about
> >3
> >> and a half scoops of Kaolin and 3 scoops of alumina hydrate, mix in with
> >> some water until it is a soft plastic consistancy. The high amount of
> >> alumina with resist the soda, and fall right off the pot after firing,
> >also
> >> leaving nice decorative circles where the flashing did not occur. To
> >apply
> >> these to the bottom of the pots, take three or four small balls and glue
> >> them to the bottom of your pot with elmer's glue. Then turn it right side
> >> up, and press lightly to level the pot and flatten the wads. I've also
> >> seen these wads pre-cut from coils and bisqued, and set on the kiln shelf
> >> under the pots, or hot-glued on. This is common and required practice for
> >> salt firing, and the effect of the soda ash is somewhat like a saltglaze.
> >>
> >> Question: My professor told me that the soluble soda ash will leach into
> >> the clay body and flux it, causing slumping on fragile forms like wide
> >> bowls and plattes with ring feet. Any experiences of slumping with the
> >> soda wash?
> >>
> >> Anji Henderson wrote:
> >>
> >> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >> > In reading this it reminds me of something once told
> >> > with in my ear shot........ "you can not stilt HF"...
> >> > Is this so??? And what are pads???
> >> > Just wondering..
> >> > Anji
> >> >
> >> > --- Lynne Antone wrote:
> >> > > ----------------------------Original
> >> > > message----------------------------
> >> > > In a message dated 10/26/1999 8:35:50 AM Pacific
> >> > > Daylight Time,
> >> > > millie@bcpl.net writes:
> >> > >
> >> > > << at the risk of exposing my ignorance. Can you
> >> > > dip a pot into the soda
> >> > > solution? and does it have to be wiped off the
> >> > > bottom in order to avoid
> >> > > sticking to the shelf.? >>
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheryl,
> >> > >
> >> > > As I recall the instructions from Dannon (we'll see
> >> > > if I was a good student),
> >> > > you can get the soda ash wash on the bottom of the
> >> > > pot, but need to put down
> >> > > pads to keep it from sticking to the shelf. I always
> >> > > applied the wash to very
> >> > > textured areas, so it was too difficult to wash them
> >> > > up completely. I waxed
> >> > > some first and tried the pads with others. Both ways
> >> > > work fine.
> >> > >
> >> > > I think it's best to paint the wash on, sometimes
> >> > > just one coat will give you
> >> > > enough shine. And whatever you don't use of the
> >> > > wash, if left sitting for
> >> > > very long, will separate out into crystals. I just
> >> > > carefully reheat it in the
> >> > > microwave just until melted again, trying not to
> >> > > boil the wash. I have never
> >> > > mixed up more than 1/2 cup at a time.
> >> > >
> >> > > Lynne Antone
> >> > > Olympia WA
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________________________
> >> > Do You Yahoo!?
> >> > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> >
Jeff Campana on tue 2 nov 99
Gavin's remark, "Kinder to the kiln" just got me worried. If there is one small
soda washed peice in a large gas kiln, will the fumes cause a noticible problem?
Keep in mind I am presently in school, and my professor would have my balls in a
jar if i hurt his kiln. I'm just worried, bacause i have a peice presently
firing, which he does not know is soda washed. Would a sagger be in order for
future firings? Also, just curious, is the effects of the soda wash essentially
that of a salt firing, because if so, i might as well just toss my peices in our
new salt kiln.
TIA
Jeff
Gavin Stairs wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hi Dannon,
>
> Bicarb has less sodium (NaHCO3 vs Na2CO3), so you need about 1.55 more
> bicarb for the same Na content. That may be why it seems less effective,
> and also why they say it is kinder to the kiln. Bicarb breaks down in
> water to:
> NaHCO3 + H2O -> Na+ + H3O+ + CO3--
> Excess CO3 bubbles away into the air as CO3, by 2(H3O+) + CO3-- -> 3(H2O) +
> CO2^. That's the fizz. The rest of the CO3 combines with water to make
> H2CO3, leaving some OH- around, which combines with the H3O+ to make water,
> so the result is about neutral, acid/base.
> Soda Ash breaks down as Na2CO3 -> 2(Na+) + CO3--. The CO3 behaves about
> the same, but without the excess H3O+, this results in a basic
> reaction. Essentially the same as NaOH, lye.
>
> So bicarb is easier on your hands, because it isn't a strong base, but I
> don't think your kiln will notice. Dry, on your ware, they will both be
> some form of NaOH plus some Na2CO3, with a bit of NaCl, if you use
> chlorinated tap water.
>
> Gavin
>
> At 11:23 PM 31/10/99 , you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >
> >Sodium Bicarbonate does indeed work, too, though it
> >seems to me it does not flash quite as well - or maybe
> >it needs more of it. I know several people who fire with
> >bicarbonate of soda rather than soda ash - they say it is
> >easier on the kiln.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Dannon Rhudy
> >
> >
> >At 12:46 PM 10/30/99 EDT, you wrote:
> > >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > >At the risk of sounding unbearably stupid, what is soda ash? Is this your
> > >lingo for sodium carbonate (Na2CO3)? I have used sodium bicarbonate -the
> > >common, cooking kind - in much the same way. Or are you talking about
> > >something entirely different?...
> > >
> > >Vera Rankovic
> > >vrankovic@sezampro.yu
> > >http://www.geocities.com/verasart/
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Jeff Campana
> > >To:
> > >Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 15:04
> > >Subject: Re: ???Soda wash will stick
> > >
> > >
> > >> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > >> Anji,
> > >>
> > >> Pads, also called wads or cookies, can be easily made. Simply take about
> > >3
> > >> and a half scoops of Kaolin and 3 scoops of alumina hydrate, mix in with
> > >> some water until it is a soft plastic consistancy. The high amount of
> > >> alumina with resist the soda, and fall right off the pot after firing,
> > >also
> > >> leaving nice decorative circles where the flashing did not occur. To
> > >apply
> > >> these to the bottom of the pots, take three or four small balls and glue
> > >> them to the bottom of your pot with elmer's glue. Then turn it right sid
> > >> up, and press lightly to level the pot and flatten the wads. I've also
> > >> seen these wads pre-cut from coils and bisqued, and set on the kiln shelf
> > >> under the pots, or hot-glued on. This is common and required practice fo
> > >> salt firing, and the effect of the soda ash is somewhat like a saltglaze.
> > >>
> > >> Question: My professor told me that the soluble soda ash will leach into
> > >> the clay body and flux it, causing slumping on fragile forms like wide
> > >> bowls and plattes with ring feet. Any experiences of slumping with the
> > >> soda wash?
> > >>
> > >> Anji Henderson wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------
> > >> > In reading this it reminds me of something once told
> > >> > with in my ear shot........ "you can not stilt HF"...
> > >> > Is this so??? And what are pads???
> > >> > Just wondering..
> > >> > Anji
> > >> >
> > >> > --- Lynne Antone wrote:
> > >> > > ----------------------------Original
> > >> > > message----------------------------
> > >> > > In a message dated 10/26/1999 8:35:50 AM Pacific
> > >> > > Daylight Time,
> > >> > > millie@bcpl.net writes:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > << at the risk of exposing my ignorance. Can you
> > >> > > dip a pot into the soda
> > >> > > solution? and does it have to be wiped off the
> > >> > > bottom in order to avoid
> > >> > > sticking to the shelf.? >>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Cheryl,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > As I recall the instructions from Dannon (we'll see
> > >> > > if I was a good student),
> > >> > > you can get the soda ash wash on the bottom of the
> > >> > > pot, but need to put down
> > >> > > pads to keep it from sticking to the shelf. I always
> > >> > > applied the wash to very
> > >> > > textured areas, so it was too difficult to wash them
> > >> > > up completely. I waxed
> > >> > > some first and tried the pads with others. Both ways
> > >> > > work fine.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I think it's best to paint the wash on, sometimes
> > >> > > just one coat will give you
> > >> > > enough shine. And whatever you don't use of the
> > >> > > wash, if left sitting for
> > >> > > very long, will separate out into crystals. I just
> > >> > > carefully reheat it in the
> > >> > > microwave just until melted again, trying not to
> > >> > > boil the wash. I have never
> > >> > > mixed up more than 1/2 cup at a time.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Lynne Antone
> > >> > > Olympia WA
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > __________________________________________________
> > >> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > >> > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> > >
Dannon Rhudy on wed 3 nov 99
At 11:04 AM 11/2/99 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Gavin's remark, "Kinder to the kiln" just got me worried. If there is one
small
>soda washed peice in a large gas kiln, will the fumes cause a noticible
problem?
>-----------------------------------------------
No, one small piece in a large gas kiln will not cause a problem, unless you
MADE the piece out of soda ash. And probably not then. But if you washed
the foot/bottom with soda and did not use wadding, then your piece will
be stuck to the shelf.
The results will be different than firing in a salt kiln, but if you HAVE a
salt
kiln, why not use it? The amount of fuming from a single piece in a glaze
kiln is negligible - there's more soda ash in some shino glazes.
Regards,
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
Gavin Stairs on wed 3 nov 99
At 11:04 AM 11/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Gavin's remark, "Kinder to the kiln" just got me worried. If there is one
>small
>soda washed peice in a large gas kiln, will the fumes cause a noticible
>problem?
No, I don't think that was me. And no, a small piece in a large kiln will
certainly not get you in trouble, provided you don't dribble all over the
shelves.
Gavin
Cindy Strnad, Earthen Vessels Pottery on thu 4 nov 99
Hi, Dannon,
Okay, a small piece in a large kiln is okay--I just tried a soda washed
piece in my ^6 electric load, and am very pleased with the results. What if
I do this to all or most of the pots in the kiln. Is that going to be
corrosive?
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
Custer, SD
Dannon Rhudy on fri 5 nov 99
At 11:59 AM 11/4/99 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi, Dannon,
>
--I just tried a soda washed
>piece in my ^6 electric load, and am very pleased with the results. What if
>I do this to all or most of the pots in the kiln. Is that going to be
>corrosive?.............................................
The short answer is, - I dunno.
My experience of firing with soda in ELECTRIC kilns is very limited.
I suppose that if you did it for a long time at some point there might
begin to be noticable effects - but it depends in large part on how
much soda you use, etc. All I can say is that I've been firing that
way in reduction kilns for four years pretty steadily, and see no
signs of any detrimental effect - or any effect at all -
to the BRICKS. But obviously I've no elements in there to be concerned
about. Not too helpful, eh?
Dannon
>
>Cindy Strnad
>Earthen Vessels Pottery
>Custer, SD
>
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