clennell on mon 8 nov 99
mel.mn
i am sure glad tony has found the light..(or red)...would not want
that texas lady going after him...
he has no idea...no idea what he is dealing with.
I do fear the dreaded Texas red fox and that why I'm trying to like red . I
like red licorice, red wine, red meat, cream soda, red heads etc. etc. but
I'm not very keen on red glazes. I like the idea that a red glaze over
another favourite glaze of mine might give black or grey. So I'm gonna do a
whole kiln load just to test it. That statement was to check Crawdads
heart. If you see a posting tomorrow he is in fine health.
I'm going to tiptoe with this one cause I'd hate to see one of my pots come
out Harley Davidson candy apple red. If it does I'll be as red as a
turkeys arse in cranberry season.
Cheers,
Tony
Tony and Sheila Clennell
Sour Cherry Pottery
4545 King St.
Beamsville, On. L0R 1B1
WWW.SOURCHERRYPOTTERY.COM
e-mail: clennell@bestnet.org
905-563-9362
fax 905-563-9383
Ron Roy on tue 9 nov 99
Not again! - good grief! - you would think after all those trips to the
dump he would learn.
I think he always comes back with something "good" from the dump - like
that last pickup - you would think he would have figured it out by now -
that he does not have to have a load to go to the dump in the first place.
Tony! Just drive out to the dump every week - empty - you'll be way ahead
in time, energy, ware and tear and wood.
RR
> I like the idea that a red glaze over
>another favourite glaze of mine might give black or grey. So I'm gonna do a
>whole kiln load just to test it. That statement was to check Crawdads
>heart. If you see a posting tomorrow he is in fine health.
>Tony
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
linda blossom on sun 4 nov 01
Actually, the case I know of was not in Nebraska. It was in Skaneateles NY
(home of Miller Clay) and it was covered in the book Energy Efficient
Potter, by Regis Brodie. The person doing the draw tiles was named George
Wettlaufer who wrote Copper Reds for Potters and had an article in the
Studio Potter in 1979 on that subject. (footnotes from EEP) In The Energy
Efficient Potter is a photo of Jonathan Kaplan in 1982!
Linda Blossom
760-510-6488
240 S. Bent
San Marcos, CA 92069
lindablossom@att.net
www.nottinghamarts.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Tsai"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: reds
> Bob Hollis wrote:
>
> "Joyce,
> You seen it happening therefore it is true, the experts who
write
> the definitive truth, i.e. bullshit, didn't count on a curious woman doing
> what they should have done "LOOKED". Your post is probably the first
> non-bullshit one on this subject, but watch, it will come, the techno
babble
> to "scientifically explain" that living in the desert means from time to
> time you must trample cacti and therefore the peyote content has got into
a
> glaze which..."
>
> Hi,
>
> Not that I don't appreciate the humor of your response, but the scientific
> tests have "looked" as you put it. It wasn't just some random theory that
> copper reds develop as the kiln cools, they looked in the kiln and pulled
out
> test rings and found out that there was no red when you first turn off the
> kiln, that the red came later. So they looked again later and again later
and
> when the red developed, that's when they said, oh, lookie, it's about blah
> blah degrees so this must be when they develop.
>
> But who knows, maybe they were in nebraska, and somme corn particles
combined
> with cow dung and formed minute little fairies that wander around with
magic
> wands and sprinkle copper reds at higher temperatures in nebraskan kilns.
>
> Who knows. The key really is that you don't just look once.
>
> -jeff
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Joyce Lee on sun 4 nov 01
This is the second firing where I've cracked open the door of the kiln =
as it was cooling for the purpose of observing the color development of =
Pinnell's Red. I opened it slightly about every 100 degree drop after =
the kiln cooled to about 800 F ...... had placed the pots with red at =
the front so I could see. Even at 600 there was NO red visible...... =
could see blues, greens, shino oranges, some purples .... but in my kiln =
during those specific two firings, the red didn't become visible until =
the pyrometer registered about 400 F ...... first had a pinkish blush, =
next time cranberry, then red. The reds and the purples continued to =
develop and deepen somewhat after being removed from the kiln while =
still only warm ... a little too warm for comfortable handling. Layered =
over a blue with white slip beneath, P.'s red cooled to a great unusual =
persimmon color; seemed to be fully cooled, but this morning it's a =
truer red. The purple developed a deeper hue with reds scatter-shot =
here and there after all heat seemed to have left the building.
Is this standard? I'd thought that reds developed around ^06. I know =
that opening and closing the door also affected glazes etc ...... so =
certainly doesn't consititute a "scientific," controlled approach .... =
but does this usually occur?
Thanks for any helpful words. Just curious.
Joyce
In the Mojave
Rare - Earth - Design on sun 4 nov 01
Joyce,
You seen it happening therefore it is true, the experts who write
the definitive truth, i.e. bullshit, didn't count on a curious woman doing
what they should have done "LOOKED". Your post is probably the first
non-bullshit one on this subject, but watch, it will come, the techno babble
to "scientifically explain" that living in the desert means from time to
time you must trample cacti and therefore the peyote content has got into a
glaze which you put on a mug you drink from and because this has been
happening over a long period you don't realise you are really out of your
head so cannot understand that you are WRONG, and anyhow reds do develop
around cone 6, it's just that you don't see them untill the kiln has cooled
right down and what are you, a stupid woman pulling pots from a hot kiln,
haven't you been told by the same experts that your pots will all break or
at the very least the glazes will jump off your pots. You really need to pay
big bucks and attend a workshop where your fevered brain can be washed.
Great to hear you had success.
Bob Hollis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joyce Lee"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 4:40 PM
Subject: Reds
This is the second firing where I've cracked open the door of the kiln as it
was cooling for the purpose of observing the color development of Pinnell's
Red. I opened it slightly about every 100 degree drop after the kiln cooled
to about 800 F ...... had placed the pots with red at the front so I could
see. Even at 600 there was NO red visible...... could see blues, greens,
shino oranges, some purples .... but in my kiln during those specific two
firings, the red didn't become visible until the pyrometer registered about
400 F ...... first had a pinkish blush, next time cranberry, then red.
The reds and the purples continued to develop and deepen somewhat after
being removed from the kiln while still only warm ... a little too warm for
comfortable handling. Layered over a blue with white slip beneath, P.'s red
cooled to a great unusual persimmon color; seemed to be fully cooled, but
this morning it's a truer red. The purple developed a deeper hue with reds
scatter-shot here and there after all heat seemed to have left the building.
Is this standard? I'd thought that reds developed around ^06. I know that
opening and closing the door also affected glazes etc ...... so certainly
doesn't consititute a "scientific," controlled approach .... but does this
usually occur?
Thanks for any helpful words. Just curious.
Joyce
In the Mojave
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Jeff Tsai on sun 4 nov 01
Bob Hollis wrote:
"Joyce,
You seen it happening therefore it is true, the experts who write
the definitive truth, i.e. bullshit, didn't count on a curious woman doing
what they should have done "LOOKED". Your post is probably the first
non-bullshit one on this subject, but watch, it will come, the techno babble
to "scientifically explain" that living in the desert means from time to
time you must trample cacti and therefore the peyote content has got into a
glaze which..."
Hi,
Not that I don't appreciate the humor of your response, but the scientific
tests have "looked" as you put it. It wasn't just some random theory that
copper reds develop as the kiln cools, they looked in the kiln and pulled out
test rings and found out that there was no red when you first turn off the
kiln, that the red came later. So they looked again later and again later and
when the red developed, that's when they said, oh, lookie, it's about blah
blah degrees so this must be when they develop.
But who knows, maybe they were in nebraska, and somme corn particles combined
with cow dung and formed minute little fairies that wander around with magic
wands and sprinkle copper reds at higher temperatures in nebraskan kilns.
Who knows. The key really is that you don't just look once.
-jeff
John Jensen on wed 7 nov 01
I'm no expert but I have been working with reds a bit lately. I had to
abort a kiln firing at around ^08 because my cone packs exploded. So I had
a kiln load of sintered glazes. I noticed that the glazes had already well
begun to go red. As far as Joyces observation that the color didn't develop
until the kiln had cooled down: I have to say I would suspect that by that
late stage all or at least most chemical change had already taken place, but
probably the appearance of color changed as it cooled.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toad.net www.Toadhouse.com
Jeff Lawrence on thu 8 nov 01
Joyce was hypothesizing that reds develop at room temp...
Hello Joyce,
My dear friend Ray, scientist emeritus, found that red color
developed over the course of a couple of weeks in some glaze
tests of mine he took the time to analyze. He looked at them
under his petrographic microscope right out of the kiln and
then revisited the same chunk later and Whoa! there was a lot
more red.
He said a viscous liquid is still a liquid, so why shouldn't
things keep happening in it?
Sorry to disappoint the mercurial Bob Hollis with an example
of a scientist actually being empirical; probably just a fluke!
;->
Jeff Lawrence
jml@cybermesa.com
Karen Deasy on fri 9 nov 01
Having never fired copper reds myself, (hope to someday). I think John =
may be on target with respect to the color change. We witness a similar =
color reaction with our "red" enamel Vermont Castings wood stove. When =
we have it fired hot it will turn to a burgundy color, sometimes with a =
purplish tinge (this makes it easy to know when to damper the stove =
down), and cools to a brilliant fire engine red. We have been told that =
this occurs because the pigment is unstable and the color reacts to the =
heat.=20
Karen Deasy
Cabot, Vermont
>I'm no expert but I have been working with reds a bit lately. I had to
>abort a kiln firing at around ^08 because my cone packs exploded. So I =
had
>a kiln load of sintered glazes. I noticed that the glazes had already =
well
>begun to go red. As far as Joyces observation that the color didn't =
develop
>until the kiln had cooled down: I have to say I would suspect that by =
that
>late stage all or at least most chemical change had already taken =
place, but
>probably the appearance of color changed as it cooled.
Paul Taylor on fri 9 nov 01
Dear Jeff
Thanks for your post . For years now Claire and I have been wondering if
some of the semi matt celadons I have been experimenting with have been
getting a little brighter over time.
I shall try to set up an experiment using my scanner - it will be a few
months before the results.
I include my wife as a witness because her sanity is rarely called into
question - unlike yours truly.
Yours truly Paul Taylor
> From: Jeff Lawrence
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:50:05 -0700
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Reds
>
> Joyce was hypothesizing that reds develop at room temp...
>
> Hello Joyce,
>
> My dear friend Ray, scientist emeritus, found that red color
> developed over the course of a couple of weeks in some glaze
> tests of mine he took the time to analyze. He looked at them
> under his petrographic microscope right out of the kiln and
> then revisited the same chunk later and Whoa! there was a lot
> more red.
>
> He said a viscous liquid is still a liquid, so why shouldn't
> things keep happening in it?
>
> Sorry to disappoint the mercurial Bob Hollis with an example
> of a scientist actually being empirical; probably just a fluke!
> ;->
>
> Jeff Lawrence
> jml@cybermesa.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Imzadi D. on tue 13 nov 01
taylor@MAIL.ANU.IE writes:
<< My dear friend Ray, scientist emeritus, found that red color
> developed over the course of a couple of weeks in some glaze
> tests of mine he took the time to analyze. He looked at them
> under his petrographic microscope right out of the kiln and
> then revisited the same chunk later and Whoa! there was a lot
> more red.
>
> He said a viscous liquid is still a liquid, so why shouldn't
> things keep happening in it? >>
This must happen to some mottled rutile glazes too. Had one pot come out of
the kiln that I thought didn't have enough of a top glaze application to get
the wonderful textural, mottled look I love. I would have reglazed it and put
it right back in the kiln if shelf space wasn't at such a premium with a
deadline for an upcoming show looming.
I looked at the pot again a couple of days later, and the streaking and
mottling were there! I can swear it's not because I "lived with the pot for a
few days" and subconsiously got used to how the pot actually is as oppose to
how my mind's eye was hoping it would turn out as I was glazing it.
Also, I helped a fellow artist while pulling a raku figure out of the kiln.
After he lifted her out of the cold water bath, we could see the red
continually developing right before our eyes. I was more amused at the visual
image she was creating with steam rising up from underneath her butt where
she was sitting. It's too bad she couldn't be displayed like that. Thought
she should be titled, "One Hot Tomato!" (The men were pretending not to
notice where she was steaming.)
Imzadi
Tommy Humphries on wed 14 nov 01
Geeze, I thought I was a victim of an overactive imagination...but if I am,
others are too.
Last year, I did a fun little test on a bowl... just borax and rutile on the
inside...thick clumpy coat. When it came out of the ^6 electric kiln it had
melted with a great looking caramel/brown streaking flowing down to the
bottom of the bowl.
OK, I says to myself, that is something to play around with some more,
later.
Couple of months ago, I was looking through some things out in the shop, and
there was that test bowl...now covered with little star-like titanium
crystals...some actually a bit proud of the surface of the glaze, where it
was perfectly smooth when it came from the kiln.
I sayed to myself...WTF???
Scared to ask here..."Dang that Tommy is done gone looney on us" is what I
figured to hear.
Good to know better.
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Imzadi D."
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: Reds
> taylor@MAIL.ANU.IE writes:
>
> << My dear friend Ray, scientist emeritus, found that red color
> > developed over the course of a couple of weeks in some glaze
> > tests of mine he took the time to analyze. He looked at them
> > under his petrographic microscope right out of the kiln and
> > then revisited the same chunk later and Whoa! there was a lot
> > more red.
> >
> > He said a viscous liquid is still a liquid, so why shouldn't
> > things keep happening in it? >>
>
> This must happen to some mottled rutile glazes too.
> I looked at the pot again a couple of days later, and the streaking and
> mottling were there!
Khaimraj Seepersad on wed 14 nov 01
Hello to All ,
And Tommy ,
if the mix had been more Na20 with some
Si02 , you would have had a clear golden
yellow glass , that feels like the metal
Titanium.
A seductively smooth glass , very high in
the refractive index . Wonderful material.
Never could get it to fit anything , properly.
Makes lovely cabochons though , and might
even be able to facet.
You can also try Na20 , Si02 and Ti02 ,
a touch of K20 will remove the colour , but
softens the glass somewhat.
You can also multi-metal , using Ca0 , Mg0
, Sr0 , plus Alkali , Si02 , Ti02 [ as the glass
stabiliser ] and as low as 2% B203 , to form
the eutectics.
For an unusual clear glass , that slowly moves
across an object [ at below cone 08 small cone
faster as the temperature rises]
, brightening red iron oxide, and is well beyond
the refractive index of Lead Crystal Glass.
This is also a self clearing glass , bubbles float
out of the lesser stiffening effect of the Ti02.
Small additions of P205 will lend translucency
much like thinly carved jade or fine blue
chalcedony.
Ti02 , it's the new look of the glaze of tomorrow.
AND you can have it at high temperatures or
very low enamel temperatures.
Khaimraj and his love affair with Titanium
[ making , casting an aluminium and titanium
tai chi sword - little weight , strength of steel ]
* I wonder if anyone ever understands what the
H..L , I am doing - chuckle .
Ever since , another Realist , but non - Traditionally
trained , wrote and said gleefully , I can now
understand 60% of what you write.
The ideas are so different - Ha ha ha ha ha .
-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Humphries
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: 14 November 2001 4:48
Subject: Re: Reds
>Geeze, I thought I was a victim of an overactive imagination...but if I am,
>others are too.
>
>Last year, I did a fun little test on a bowl... just borax and rutile on
the
>inside...thick clumpy coat. When it came out of the ^6 electric kiln it
had
>melted with a great looking caramel/brown streaking flowing down to the
>bottom of the bowl.
>
>OK, I says to myself, that is something to play around with some more,
>later.
>
>Couple of months ago, I was looking through some things out in the shop,
and
>there was that test bowl...now covered with little star-like titanium
>crystals...some actually a bit proud of the surface of the glaze, where it
>was perfectly smooth when it came from the kiln.
>
>I sayed to myself...WTF???
>
>Scared to ask here..."Dang that Tommy is done gone looney on us" is what I
>figured to hear.
>
>Good to know better.
>
>Tommy
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Imzadi D."
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:48 PM
>Subject: Re: Reds
>
>
>> taylor@MAIL.ANU.IE writes:
>>
>> << My dear friend Ray, scientist emeritus, found that red color
>> > developed over the course of a couple of weeks in some glaze
>> > tests of mine he took the time to analyze. He looked at them
>> > under his petrographic microscope right out of the kiln and
>> > then revisited the same chunk later and Whoa! there was a lot
>> > more red.
>> >
>> > He said a viscous liquid is still a liquid, so why shouldn't
>> > things keep happening in it? >>
>>
>> This must happen to some mottled rutile glazes too.
>> I looked at the pot again a couple of days later, and the streaking and
>> mottling were there!
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
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