Randall Moody on sat 20 nov 99
I am experimenting with some dry surfaced Lithium glazes and I am of
course having a problem. The glazes are listed in the December 1996 Ceramics
Monthly. The article is on Howard Koerth of Weatherford, OK. My problem is
that the 'salmon pink' is turning out kind of dark gray. I mixed and fired
the glazes in the same day. So what I am wondering is if Lithium Carbonate
is water soluble? And if anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong. The
glazes were brushed on so that may be it. Also if anyone has Mr. Koerth's
e-mail address.
Here is the base glaze:
Lithium Carb. 27.55%
Bentonite 3.06
Tile 6 15.31
Flint 54.08
Salmon Pink add:
Manganese Dioxide 5.00%
Ron Roy on sun 21 nov 99
Hi Randal,
Of all the "insoluble" carbonates we use the lithium is the most soluble so
you can expect some surprises from this "glaze."
It has an extremly low expansion rate - watch out for those pieces of fired
glaze falling off - and make sure you keep it away from any pots that may
be used for food - just imagine a piece of razor sharp glaze making it's
way through your digestive system.
RR
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I am experimenting with some dry surfaced Lithium glazes and I am of
>course having a problem. The glazes are listed in the December 1996 Ceramics
>Monthly. The article is on Howard Koerth of Weatherford, OK. My problem is
>that the 'salmon pink' is turning out kind of dark gray. I mixed and fired
>the glazes in the same day. So what I am wondering is if Lithium Carbonate
>is water soluble? And if anyone can tell me what I am doing wrong. The
>glazes were brushed on so that may be it. Also if anyone has Mr. Koerth's
>e-mail address.
>
>Here is the base glaze:
>
> Lithium Carb. 27.55%
> Bentonite 3.06
> Tile 6 15.31
> Flint 54.08
>
>Salmon Pink add:
> Manganese Dioxide 5.00%
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Hank Knaepple on wed 20 dec 00
I have read several postings concerning the possible
toxicity of lithium carbonate being released from
glazes.
I have taken lithium carbonate as a treatment for
bi-polar disorder for a number of years, in quantities
that would far exceed any anmounts that may leach out
of a glaze with only one side effect, you get happy!
I was taking about 900 milligrams a day and could
barely get a blood level.
Until 1974 lithium carbonate was an ingredient in the
soft drink seven up. The 7-up folks dropped the
ingredient due to its negative association with
"mental illness".
Unless the lithium is reacting adversly with other
items in the mix, I wouldn't worry.
Best wishes,
Zatheros
zatheros7@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
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Leonora Coleman on thu 23 aug 01
I have a practical question about the use of lithium carbonate in =
glazes.
I am mixing some glaze tests includiong Lithium carbonate in the recipe. =
The lithium carbonate remains very grainy in the glaze mix and doesn't =
want to go through even a 40 mesh screen. I have let it sit for more =
than a week and it still doesn't break down sufficiently to sieve to a =
uniform consistency.
What is the solution to this problem, short of using a ball mill, which =
I do not have?
Leonora at Claymakers in Durham, NC
Ababi on thu 23 aug 01
The first solution is a 30# shive or flour shive -don't re use it in
the kitchen
Ababi
---------- Original Message ----------
>I have a practical question about the use of lithium carbonate in
>glazes.
>I am mixing some glaze tests includiong Lithium carbonate in the
>recipe. The lithium carbonate remains very grainy in the glaze mix and
>doesn't want to go through even a 40 mesh screen. I have let it sit
>for more than a week and it still doesn't break down sufficiently to
>sieve to a uniform consistency.
>What is the solution to this problem, short of using a ball mill, which
>I do not have?
>Leonora at Claymakers in Durham, NC
>________________________________________________________________________
>______
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Jonathan Kirkendall on thu 23 aug 01
Leonora,
I've sometimes had similar problems with lithium, and believe or not, I've
had great success, when, in despair and fearing the worst, I went ahead and
sieved the glaze through an 80 mesh sieve and discarded whatever didn't go
through.
You probably know this but in case you don't and out of respect of future
generations who might find this in the archives, I'd like to take the
opportunity to say that lithium carbonate must be treated with caution.
Jonathan in DC
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Leonora Coleman
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 8:42 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Lithium carbonate
I have a practical question about the use of lithium carbonate in glazes.
I am mixing some glaze tests includiong Lithium carbonate in the recipe.
The lithium carbonate remains very grainy in the glaze mix and doesn't want
to go through even a 40 mesh screen. I have let it sit for more than a week
and it still doesn't break down sufficiently to sieve to a uniform
consistency.
What is the solution to this problem, short of using a ball mill, which I do
not have?
Leonora at Claymakers in Durham, NC
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Fabienne Micheline Cassman on thu 23 aug 01
At 09:41 AM 08/23/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> The lithium carbonate remains very grainy in the glaze mix and doesn't =
>want to go through even a 40 mesh screen. I have let it sit for more =
>than a week and it still doesn't break down sufficiently to sieve to a =
>uniform consistency.
>What is the solution to this problem, short of using a ball mill, which =
>I do not have?
HI :)
I use an old blender or a hand held mixer (same blade as in the blender) to
get those clumpy material loose in the glaze. I find the hand held quicker
and more convenient; I only pull out the blender when I really have to :)
Fabienne
--
Milky Way Ceramics http://www.milkywayceramics.com/
Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
I can reproduce them exactly.
cd on thu 23 aug 01
Simple solution.. Put the lithium in a household blender, dry, and give =
it a buzz for a minute or so. Will easily pass through a 100 mesh =
screen when mixed with H2O.
Cheers,
Craig
John Forstall on fri 24 aug 01
Leonora,
Have experience same problem with Lithium C. Last batch (7/01) bought from
Bailey Supply will go through 100 mesh screen with no problem.
John
(John Forstall, Pensacola, FL.)
Paul Lewing on sun 7 oct 01
on 10/7/01 1:14 PM, Nancy Jervey at njervey@SOMTEL.COM wrote:
> Is Lithium Carbonate considered food safe?
Li2O (lithium oxide) may or may not leach out of a glaze, depending on that
glaze's firing and composition. There is no way to tell without testing it.
Whether lithium oxide, from lithium carbonate or any other raw material,
would be harmful or not, and to whom or in what concentrations, is not
conclusively known. But I personally would not hesitate to use a little
lithium carbonate in a glaze on functional ware.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Nancy Jervey on sun 7 oct 01
Is Lithium Carbonate concidered food safe? Thanks..Nancy
Earl Brunner on thu 11 oct 01
Valarie,
I don't think that Paul is saying that any particular percentage of
lithium carbonate is automatically safe in just any old glaze. What I
think he is saying is that a balanced, stable glaze with "some" lithium
in "might" be safe, and that he wouldn't rule it out JUST because it
had some lithium in it.
Valerie Hawkins wrote:
> What percentage are you talking about?
>
> Valerie Hawkins, Charlotte
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Paul Lewing
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 6:17 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Lithium Carbonate
>
>
> on 10/7/01 1:14 PM, Nancy Jervey at njervey@SOMTEL.COM wrote:
>
>
>> Is Lithium Carbonate considered food safe?
>
>
> Li2O (lithium oxide) may or may not leach out of a glaze, depending on that
> glaze's firing and composition. There is no way to tell without testing it.
> Whether lithium oxide, from lithium carbonate or any other raw material,
> would be harmful or not, and to whom or in what concentrations, is not
> conclusively known. But I personally would not hesitate to use a little
> lithium carbonate in a glaze on functional ware.
> Paul Lewing, Seattle
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net
Valerie Hawkins on thu 11 oct 01
What percentage are you talking about?
Valerie Hawkins, Charlotte
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Paul Lewing
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 6:17 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Lithium Carbonate
on 10/7/01 1:14 PM, Nancy Jervey at njervey@SOMTEL.COM wrote:
> Is Lithium Carbonate considered food safe?
Li2O (lithium oxide) may or may not leach out of a glaze, depending on that
glaze's firing and composition. There is no way to tell without testing it.
Whether lithium oxide, from lithium carbonate or any other raw material,
would be harmful or not, and to whom or in what concentrations, is not
conclusively known. But I personally would not hesitate to use a little
lithium carbonate in a glaze on functional ware.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Ababi on fri 12 oct 01
I would suggest you to try the recipe you do without lithium, because
lithium, is the reason why the little cute tiny batteries of watches
are so dangerous to be swallowed by our little tiny cute little
children as well as a lovely medicine given to some of us by our not so
tiny or cute shrinks. The last ones gives a few milligrams a day. This
is why I leave the lithium, to decorative and only out of dishes,
except these flat plates ones for "cheetos"etc, they dry and probably
have some "goodies" anyway.
Ababi Sharon
Kibbutz Shoval- Israel
officially Glaze addict
sharon@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
http://www.israelceramics.org/
---------- Original Message ----------
>Valarie,
>I don't think that Paul is saying that any particular percentage of
>lithium carbonate is automatically safe in just any old glaze. What I
>think he is saying is that a balanced, stable glaze with "some" lithium
>in "might" be safe, and that he wouldn't rule it out JUST because it
>had some lithium in it.
>Valerie Hawkins wrote:
>> What percentage are you talking about?
>>
>> Valerie Hawkins, Charlotte
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
>> Behalf Of Paul Lewing
>> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 6:17 PM
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Lithium Carbonate
>>
>>
>> on 10/7/01 1:14 PM, Nancy Jervey at njervey@SOMTEL.COM wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Is Lithium Carbonate considered food safe?
>>
>>
>> Li2O (lithium oxide) may or may not leach out of a glaze, depending
>on that
>> glaze's firing and composition. There is no way to tell without
>testing it.
>> Whether lithium oxide, from lithium carbonate or any other raw
>material,
>> would be harmful or not, and to whom or in what concentrations, is not
>> conclusively known. But I personally would not hesitate to use a
>little
>> lithium carbonate in a glaze on functional ware.
>> Paul Lewing, Seattle
>>
>>
>________________________________________________________________________
>____
>> __
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>
>________________________________________________________________________
>______
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>--
>Earl Brunner
>http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
>bruec@anv.net
>________________________________________________________________________
>______
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy on mon 15 oct 01
Hi Valerie,
Not a question of being off base - I just checked it out - adding 2%
lithium should not be a problem.
It's the solubility of the carbonate that can be the problem- it can defloc
a glaze and some of the soluble lithium can get into the clay and sometimes
cause problems.
RR
>Well, I'm not nancy, but I've been considering trying some lithium in the
>tony hanson 5 X 20 recipe just to see if I can liven up the surface a bit.
>Am I way off base in considering this?
>
>Valerie
Ron Roy
RR# 4
15084 Little Lake Rd..
Brighton,
Ontario, Canada
KOK 1H0
Residence 613-475-9544
Studio 613-475-3715
Fax 613-475-3513
Ron Roy on mon 15 oct 01
Depends on the glaze and how much lithium is in it.
There can be shivering problems with amounts over 2% - again it depends on
the expansion of the glaze and the clay body.
Send me the recipe of the glaze you are thinking about and I willgive you
my opinion.
RR
>Is Lithium Carbonate concidered food safe? Thanks..Nancy
Ron Roy
RR# 4
15084 Little Lake Rd..
Brighton,
Ontario, Canada
KOK 1H0
Residence 613-475-9544
Studio 613-475-3715
Fax 613-475-3513
Valerie Hawkins on mon 15 oct 01
Well, I'm not nancy, but I've been considering trying some lithium in the
tony hanson 5 X 20 recipe just to see if I can liven up the surface a bit.
Am I way off base in considering this?
Valerie
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Ron Roy
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:28 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Lithium Carbonate
Depends on the glaze and how much lithium is in it.
There can be shivering problems with amounts over 2% - again it depends on
the expansion of the glaze and the clay body.
Send me the recipe of the glaze you are thinking about and I willgive you
my opinion.
RR
>Is Lithium Carbonate concidered food safe? Thanks..Nancy
Ron Roy
RR# 4
15084 Little Lake Rd..
Brighton,
Ontario, Canada
KOK 1H0
Residence 613-475-9544
Studio 613-475-3715
Fax 613-475-3513
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Paul Lewing on mon 15 oct 01
on 10/12/01 2:41 AM, Earl Brunner at bruec@ANV.NET wrote:
> Valarie,
> I don't think that Paul is saying that any particular percentage of
> lithium carbonate is automatically safe in just any old glaze. What I
> think he is saying is that a balanced, stable glaze with "some" lithium
> in "might" be safe, and that he wouldn't rule it out JUST because it
> had some lithium in it.
>
> Valerie Hawkins wrote:
>
>> What percentage are you talking about?
Earl's got it exactly right, Valerie. But it does bring up an important
point about glaze ingredients. What's important about your glazes is the
molecules of fired glass. So when someone says, "Add a little of ingredient
X", what do they mean by "a little"?
Well, lithium oxide (which is what you get in the fired glaze from lithium
carbonate) is incredibly light, in terms of atomic weight. Only hydrogen
and helium are lighter than lithium. So a very small weight of LiCO3 will
supply a huge number of LiO2 ions. If you look at a recipe and an analysis
of a glaze with lithium, you'll notice that an addition of 5% of LiCO3 can
supply maybe .30 or .40 moles of LiO2. That's a lot- it's 30 or 40% of the
flux ions. A comparable addition of whiting, for instance (Ca CO3) might
only give you .10 or so of CaO. So 5% lithium carbonate is a lot of that,
but 5% of whiting is not a lot.
I know it's complicated, but you just have to get to know this stuff. It
does get easier after a while.
Good luck, Paul Lewing
John Sankey on fri 25 apr 08
When I look at the reported problems with excess lithium, one
thing stands out for me as atypical: total failure of the glaze-
body bond, shelling. Another thing: look at the series for glaze
strength that Hall did so many years ago
(http://sankey.ws/glazeexpansion.html) that shows a dramatic
variation with atomic weight - I have been unable to find
comparable data on lithium
factor lithium sodium potassium
strength 10?? 20 40
The few quick tests I've done showed no visible difference
between lithium carbonate and spodumene as a source of lithium.
And, I saw no significant differences between fresh and well-aged
mixes using carbonate, nor of thick (painted) vs. thin (dipped)
mixes. My suspicion is that lithium just plain makes glazes weak.
John Sankey
----------
Include 'Byrd' in the subject line of your reply to get through my spam
filter.
I can only read text mail, no attachments.
John Post on fri 25 apr 08
John H,
Here are two anecdotal observations that may support your lithium
theory.
The current glaze I am working with has 10% lithium carbonate and 10%
soda ash in it. On the hundred or so pots I have glazed with it, it
has not crawled or shelled on any of them. It does craze when there
is copper in it.
My hypothesis is that since the soda ash and lithium both start to
flux rather soon in the firing cycle in my electric kiln that the
whole glaze actually starts to melt rather early. Instead of the
lithium migrating to the edges and lips it becomes part of the glassy
surface early in the melt.
Another example is the high lithium crawl glazes that I have seen.
They almost look like the magnesium crawl glazes, except they use
lithium. Since lithium is probably the only flux in these simple
glazes when the lithium starts to melt to form the crawling surface it
is not interacting with other fluxes and therefore does not cause the
shelling problems. I am just tossing these thoughts out for
consideration and have not done any work in testing these hypotheses.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us :: cone 6 glaze website ::
http://www.wemakeart.org :: elementary art website ::
On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:27 AM, John Sankey wrote:
> When I look at the reported problems with excess lithium, one
> thing stands out for me as atypical: total failure of the glaze-
> body bond, shelling. Another thing: look at the series for glaze
> strength that Hall did so many years ago
> (http://sankey.ws/glazeexpansion.html) that shows a dramatic
> variation with atomic weight - I have been unable to find
> comparable data on lithium
> factor lithium sodium potassium
> strength 10?? 20 40
>
> The few quick tests I've done showed no visible difference
> between lithium carbonate and spodumene as a source of lithium.
> And, I saw no significant differences between fresh and well-aged
> mixes using carbonate, nor of thick (painted) vs. thin (dipped)
> mixes. My suspicion is that lithium just plain makes glazes weak.
>
> John Sankey
> ----------
> Include 'Byrd' in the subject line of your reply to get through my
> spam
> filter.
> I can only read text mail, no attachments.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 23 may 08
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C8BCCB.2DD6E460
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear John Post,
Accepting your empirical hypothesis based on repeated observations over =
several years using 10% each Lithium Carbonate and Sodium Carbonate then =
it seems to me that a molten mixture of both will act as an aggressive =
solvent for free Silicon dioxide and other silicate minerals which =
become part of a highly viscous melt.=20
For Refs, see P. J. Durrant (1956), "General and Inorganic Chemistry". =
Ch 14, The Alkali Metals, p 319 Footnote, with this equation for a =
reaction at red heat and above.... SiO2 + Na2CO3 =3D Na2SiO3 + CO2.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C8BCCB.2DD6E460
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
Dear John Post,
Accepting your empirical hypothesis based on =
repeated=20
observations over several years using 10% each Lithium Carbonate and =
Sodium=20
Carbonate then it seems to me that a molten mixture of both =
will act=20
as an aggressive solvent for free Silicon dioxide and other silicate =
minerals=20
which become part of a highly viscous melt.
For Refs, see P. J. Durrant (1956), "General and =
Inorganic=20
Chemistry". Ch 14, The Alkali Metals, p 319 Footnote, with this =
equation=20
for a reaction at red heat and above.... SiO2 + Na2CO3 =3D Na2SiO3 =
+=20
CO2.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South =20
Australia.
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C8BCCB.2DD6E460--
Dale Neese on sun 19 dec 10
Article in the paper this morning on the rising demand of Lithium to make
batteries for electric automobiles. As countries move away from oil there
could be increasing demand for the mineral. Not many places on the planet
that have deposits of Lithium except for Bolivia that has the largest
deposits but a socialist government that doesn't go well with investors.
Chile is the world's largest producer along with Argentina and the two
combined produce more than half the world's Lithium production. So you see
it's not an easy nor inexpensive mineral to get in the first place.
If your glazes contain Lithium carbonate, may want to grab some for your
chemical stash in case prices begin to rise. My supplier's price is already
$9 a pound.
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
Helotes, Texas USA
www.daleneese.com
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