Veronica Honthaas on wed 15 dec 99
Martin: Could you please give us the address of your electrical parts
supplier for your lamps. Thanks. Veronica
Martin A. Arkowitz on mon 20 dec 99
------------------
--- You wrote:
Could you please give us the address of your electrical parts
supplier for your lamps. Thanks. Veronica
--- end of quote ---
the address of my lamp supplier is- w.n.de sherbinin products, inc
p.o.box 63 Hawleyville,Ct 06440 their toll free =23 is 800-458-0010 and =
their fax
=23 is 203-797-1385
their minimum billing is =2425 and that is very easy to get today at today's
prices. sorry i was so late in replying, but i hope that this still helps. =
if
you have nay further questions just e-mail me.
eleanor arkowitz
marty1=40dartmouth.edu
Lisa Grundy on mon 27 sep 04
I plan to make ceramic lamps, but a relative of mine suggested I might
need CE certification to sell them. Is this necesary if the electrical
components that I buy in are individually CE certified?
Do any lamp-makers out there know the answer to this problem?
claybair on tue 28 sep 04
When we were building our house (in 2000)
I mentioned to the builder that I wanted
to make my the sconces. He told me
that the electricians would not install
them because they were not certified etc.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Janet Kaiser
It depends which country you sell them in, Lisa. Here in the UK
(so I believe this would apply in all the countries throughout
the European Union) anything electrical has to be certified.
I personally see this whole certification
malarky as yet another ploy to make sure the little one-man band
is at a relatively bigger disadvantage and has to peddle twice as
fast to keep up with the big boys.
Your local Health & Safety executive or a qualified electrician
should be able to tell you what is required where you live/trade.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
*** IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING MAIL:
>I plan to make ceramic lamps, but a relative of mine suggested I
might
>need CE certification to sell them. Is this necesary if the
electrical
>components that I buy in are individually CE certified?
>Do any lamp-makers out there know the answer to this problem?
*** THE MAIL FROM Lisa Grundy ENDS HERE
Janet Kaiser on tue 28 sep 04
It depends which country you sell them in, Lisa. Here in the UK
(so I believe this would apply in all the countries throughout
the European Union) anything electrical has to be certified.
Plugs also have to be fused onto the cable and all sorts of
stuff, which basically make self-assembly illegal! I know that
this has stopped some potters making lamps (to sell). I also know
of others who make lamps into which the electrical bit(s) will
fit, but leave the customer to put it all together DIY mode. They
just provide lamp base, lamp shade and an *unopened* package of
electrical parts which is technically not part of the package.
This gets around being held responsible for testing &
certification, which is necessarily costly and uneconomic for
small makers, unless they have a captive qualified electrician to
serve them (for free)! I personally see this whole certification
malarky as yet another ploy to make sure the little one-man band
is at a relatively bigger disadvantage and has to peddle twice as
fast to keep up with the big boys.
Your local Health & Safety executive or a qualified electrician
should be able to tell you what is required where you live/trade.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
*** IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING MAIL:
>I plan to make ceramic lamps, but a relative of mine suggested I
might
>need CE certification to sell them. Is this necesary if the
electrical
>components that I buy in are individually CE certified?
>Do any lamp-makers out there know the answer to this problem?
*** THE MAIL FROM Lisa Grundy ENDS HERE ***
***********************************************************
The Chapel of Art : Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent : Criccieth : Wales : UK
Home of The International Potters' Path
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 http://www.the-coa.org.uk
************* Virus Protection by AVG *****************
************************************************************
Steve Slatin on wed 29 sep 04
Phil, Gayle --
I havn't read the National Electric Code for some
time, and am not sure of the variations from the NEC
that would apply on Bainbridge -- though I would guess
they are even more restrictive than the NEC generally
(I'm in Clallam County, where I was allowed to do all
the wiring in my studio EXCEPT for the meter, panel,
and one outlet -- and if not for the
electricity, I could have had the entire building put
up without benefit of a permit. It's a rather
casual jurisdiction).
I'm about 90% sure the issue is that a sconce is seen
as a fixture, and as such would have to be a UL
approved device to meet inspection for the work to be
finaled, and that, in turn, would require the
electrician to refuse to install a non-approved item
to protect you and the builder from the inspector,
etc. The builder left out the intermediate steps in
saying simply that it couldn't be done.
One solution to this problem is a nod-and-wink
thing, where you tell the builder that's fine, but
have him put a small outlet on the wall where the
sconce will go, and you have the house inspected
without anything there, and subsequently you build
your 'lamp,' which is no longer a fixture, but which
happens to be 'temporarily' mounted on the wall, in
such a way as to conceal the outlet.
I've seen this done in some extremely costly homes,
and it's completely legal, and conforms to code, or
did, at any rate, back in the '80's.
Builders and electricians can lose their licenses
mighty quickly in some jurisdictions if they don't
conform to code. And there are the liability issues.
This is one where I think the game isn't worth the
candle -- it's like building a house too close to a
property line for zoning; sure you can do it, but
you'll probably spend years defending what you did or
paying for 'corrective measures' (like buying a strip
of your neighbor's property, or maybe a whole lot and
then adjusting the boundaries). And building out of
conformity to gas and electrical codes can make a
house totally unmarketable if you ever need to sell.
The electrical code is constantly in flux and may be
overly restrictive, but I've done building maintenance
where there's no code, and it's not a pretty sight. I
remember one third-world electrician who would 'tease'
a spark from an outlet to see if it was live (he said
he could tell a 110 from a 220 by how far up his arm
the shock went). It was great until the day the spark
knocked him off of
a ladder and knocked him out and broke his wrist
among other damage. I spent a few weeks going around
and following up on his work, and while it was
mostly safe it was completely haywired, unbalanced
loads, poorly marked (nothing was tagged or color
coded, so if you didn't know he'd done it you might
trust the work to be according to standards and be
seriously disappointed by results). I trained his
assistant to do a little better and mark things
properly, but fought with the eldctrician until the
day I left.
Me, I'll go with people who know their code and stick
to it.
Regards -- Steve Slatin
--- pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
> Hi Gayle,
>
>
> Someone in his position pretty well has to have the
> kind of
> (non) 'answers' they will have.
>
> A more emotionally mature or independant 'builder'
> who is
> cabable of evaluating something himself or acting
> like a
> Man, would have said "Make them, let me see them,
> and we
> will go from there" and, he would have worked with
> you to
> see to it that the Sconces you made would posess the
> requisite attributes for him feeling confident about
> their
> safety or how the bulb-socket needs to fit in or on
> them or
> somesuch.
>
> Short 'answers' usually are a deflection of
> someons's not
> careing about it other than to be rid of it for the
> benifit
> of their own petty disinterest.
>
> The worst it should ever have been, was that he
> worked with
> you, and, evaluated your efforts according to his
> appreciation of the pertenaint electrical features,
> and, if
> he felt hung up, like a Bug-in-a-flashlight-beam or
> something, before some self toruturing envisionments
> of the
> earth-turned eyes of God, the Angels, Saints,
> Martyrs and
> other assorted Celestial parties (or worsse yet,
> litlgation,) whose sole interests revolve about the
> absence
> of a little adhesive-back Yew-ell sticker...he
> coulda just
> let you install them yourself...
>
> If it were me, I'd have fired his ass, right then
> and there
> for a (non) 'answer' like that. I'd have trusted him
> on the
> rest-of-the-project, one whole bunch
> of...not-at-all...so, I
> guess, he'd have gotten "The Bum's Rush" I think,
> right out
> the door ( if there was a door yet to throw him out
> of. ot
> through, anyway...)
>
> If he did not know how to evaluate a Sconce, or did
> not know
> an Electrician he could recommend who would
> sympathetically
> do so as a courtesy, then he should have stayed
> back-at-the-mall in as assistant manager of the
> 'Orange
> Julius' kiosk-stand, or whatever he is suited for...
>
> I hate so called 'builders'...
>
> What greedy heartless schmucks, what shameless
> rackets...what crooks...
>
>
> Love,
>
> Phil
> el ve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "claybair"
>
> > When we were building our house (in 2000)
> > I mentioned to the builder that I wanted
> > to make my the sconces. He told me
> > that the electricians would not install
> > them because they were not certified etc.
> >
> > Gayle Bair
=====
Steve Slatin -- Lies told, whiskey hauled, widows tended.
Sequim, Washington, USA
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 29 sep 04
Hi Gayle,
Someone in his position pretty well has to have the kind of
(non) 'answers' they will have.
A more emotionally mature or independant 'builder' who is
cabable of evaluating something himself or acting like a
Man, would have said "Make them, let me see them, and we
will go from there" and, he would have worked with you to
see to it that the Sconces you made would posess the
requisite attributes for him feeling confident about their
safety or how the bulb-socket needs to fit in or on them or
somesuch.
Short 'answers' usually are a deflection of someons's not
careing about it other than to be rid of it for the benifit
of their own petty disinterest.
The worst it should ever have been, was that he worked with
you, and, evaluated your efforts according to his
appreciation of the pertenaint electrical features, and, if
he felt hung up, like a Bug-in-a-flashlight-beam or
something, before some self toruturing envisionments of the
earth-turned eyes of God, the Angels, Saints, Martyrs and
other assorted Celestial parties (or worsse yet,
litlgation,) whose sole interests revolve about the absence
of a little adhesive-back Yew-ell sticker...he coulda just
let you install them yourself...
If it were me, I'd have fired his ass, right then and there
for a (non) 'answer' like that. I'd have trusted him on the
rest-of-the-project, one whole bunch of...not-at-all...so, I
guess, he'd have gotten "The Bum's Rush" I think, right out
the door ( if there was a door yet to throw him out of. ot
through, anyway...)
If he did not know how to evaluate a Sconce, or did not know
an Electrician he could recommend who would sympathetically
do so as a courtesy, then he should have stayed
back-at-the-mall in as assistant manager of the 'Orange
Julius' kiosk-stand, or whatever he is suited for...
I hate so called 'builders'...
What greedy heartless schmucks, what shameless
rackets...what crooks...
Love,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "claybair"
> When we were building our house (in 2000)
> I mentioned to the builder that I wanted
> to make my the sconces. He told me
> that the electricians would not install
> them because they were not certified etc.
>
> Gayle Bair
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on thu 30 sep 04
Hi Steve, Gayle, Rhonda, David, all...
Yes, and or...to reiterate a little...
All that needed to be done, was for a cheapie,
yew-ell-code-meetin' fixture to be present for the
'final'...and
for one's own fixture to be installed-by-self or other,
after.
The only thing a Sconce needs to have to it for safety, is,
not to be so frail as to fall from it's own weight, not to
have pokey things at eye level, to be
mountable somehow to some standard wall-box or to a
mediating device as Sconces sometimes had for hanging to a
wall-box, and, not to
be likely to melt or catch fire from the warmth of a bulb,
and, to securely hold the two wires and the bulb recepticle
in a practical manner...
And, for the two wires to be delt with according to the same
time hondred for a hundred and twenty years or more method,
of a
'plug' on one end, and the screws holding the wire's ends on
the bulb recepticle, to
be snugged...and to remove the insulation from the last
3/8ths or so of the wire's ends, and, if one really wants
to, to 'tin' those hence bare ends with a Soldering Iron,
and to
pre-bend them over some roundish expedient, such as a
screwdriver's shank, to give them just the right curve for
their intended screws to snug down against.
One may resort to the nicety of letting the ends of the
wires be curved and set in the same direction in which the
screws turn to tighten, and, to make a simple
first-half-of-a-box-knot ( you know, like when to tie a
Shoe-Lace, before the Bow part) in the wire's inch or so of
ends, and to pull that snug inside the plug before screwing
down the ends into the plug. Which keeps the cord from
pulling out if
someone yanks on it...
Yew-ell, schmoo-ell...
Love,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Slatin"
> Phil, Gayle --
>
> I havn't read the National Electric Code for some
> time, and am not sure of the variations from the NEC
> that would apply on Bainbridge -- though I would guess
> they are even more restrictive than the NEC generally
> (I'm in Clallam County, where I was allowed to do all
> the wiring in my studio EXCEPT for the meter, panel,
> and one outlet -- and if not for the
> electricity, I could have had the entire building put
> up without benefit of a permit. It's a rather
> casual jurisdiction).
>
> I'm about 90% sure the issue is that a sconce is seen
> as a fixture, and as such would have to be a UL
> approved device to meet inspection for the work to be
> finaled, and that, in turn, would require the
> electrician to refuse to install a non-approved item
> to protect you and the builder from the inspector,
> etc. The builder left out the intermediate steps in
> saying simply that it couldn't be done.
>
> One solution to this problem is a nod-and-wink
> thing, where you tell the builder that's fine, but
> have him put a small outlet on the wall where the
> sconce will go, and you have the house inspected
> without anything there, and subsequently you build
> your 'lamp,' which is no longer a fixture, but which
> happens to be 'temporarily' mounted on the wall, in
> such a way as to conceal the outlet.
>
> I've seen this done in some extremely costly homes,
> and it's completely legal, and conforms to code, or
> did, at any rate, back in the '80's.
>
> Builders and electricians can lose their licenses
> mighty quickly in some jurisdictions if they don't
> conform to code. And there are the liability issues.
> This is one where I think the game isn't worth the
> candle -- it's like building a house too close to a
> property line for zoning; sure you can do it, but
> you'll probably spend years defending what you did or
> paying for 'corrective measures' (like buying a strip
> of your neighbor's property, or maybe a whole lot and
> then adjusting the boundaries). And building out of
> conformity to gas and electrical codes can make a
> house totally unmarketable if you ever need to sell.
>
> The electrical code is constantly in flux and may be
> overly restrictive, but I've done building maintenance
> where there's no code, and it's not a pretty sight. I
> remember one third-world electrician who would 'tease'
> a spark from an outlet to see if it was live (he said
> he could tell a 110 from a 220 by how far up his arm
> the shock went). It was great until the day the spark
> knocked him off of
> a ladder and knocked him out and broke his wrist
> among other damage. I spent a few weeks going around
> and following up on his work, and while it was
> mostly safe it was completely haywired, unbalanced
> loads, poorly marked (nothing was tagged or color
> coded, so if you didn't know he'd done it you might
> trust the work to be according to standards and be
> seriously disappointed by results). I trained his
> assistant to do a little better and mark things
> properly, but fought with the eldctrician until the
> day I left.
>
> Me, I'll go with people who know their code and stick
> to it.
>
> Regards -- Steve Slatin
claybair on thu 30 sep 04
Hey Phil,
Now please don't hold back....
tell us what you really think.... !:-)
I got a chuckle from your posting
and ordinarily I would agree with you
but living on Bainbridge Island I have
come to realize that he was likely telling
the truth the amount of restrictions here
are amazing.
After McDonalds built their
double arches City Hall implemented
a non-chain rule. Believe it or not there are
no other chains..... well that's not exactly true....
there are a few but they are thinly disguised as
family owned restaurants with different names.
I was willing to give up the sconces because this
area is where I want to be.
I could make them and install them myself but have
moved onto other things.
No big deal! Now untwist your knickers!!-)
Gayle Bair - P.S. Jack built me a really fabulous house!
Of course I was on call and here every day for hours but
I have a dream house that I love.
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
Hi Gayle,
Someone in his position pretty well has to have the kind of
(non) 'answers' they will have.
A more emotionally mature or independant 'builder' who is
cabable of evaluating something himself or acting like a
Man, would have said "Make them, let me see them, and we
will go from there" and, he would have worked with you to
see to it that the Sconces you made would posess the
requisite attributes for him feeling confident about their
safety or how the bulb-socket needs to fit in or on them or
somesuch.
snip>
If it were me, I'd have fired his ass, right then and there
for a (non) 'answer' like that. I'd have trusted him on the
rest-of-the-project, one whole bunch of...not-at-all...so, I
guess, he'd have gotten "The Bum's Rush" I think, right out
the door ( if there was a door yet to throw him out of. ot
through, anyway...)
If he did not know how to evaluate a Sconce, or did not know
an Electrician he could recommend who would sympathetically
do so as a courtesy, then he should have stayed
back-at-the-mall in as assistant manager of the 'Orange
Julius' kiosk-stand, or whatever he is suited for...
I hate so called 'builders'...
What greedy heartless schmucks, what shameless
rackets...what crooks...
Love,
Phil
el ve
----- Original Message -----
From: "claybair"
> When we were building our house (in 2000)
> I mentioned to the builder that I wanted
> to make my the sconces. He told me
> that the electricians would not install
> them because they were not certified etc.
>
> Gayle Bair
piedpotterhamelin@COMCAST.NET on fri 1 oct 04
I cannot help to see a relationship with this posting and the unfortunately hazardous kiln repair as noted elsewhere.
I have a friend who has been blacksmithing for 30 plus years...The Smithsonian was one of his patrons. He had a large barn built by a local carpenter. The smithy made two pairs of large steel strap hinges for the large barn doors, as he made for many historical museums throughout the USA. The carpenter flatly refused to use them, stating that they were unsafe.
Our time is precious so most of us are willing to spend extra for the professional advice and skill so that we can continue our work. A couple years ago I brought my computer into a shop for some virus problem. When I returned to pick it up, I found my second hard drive removed. I didn't state this on the "laundry list" of repairs that I supplied him. He just thought it was something to do. I have had problems with so many prof's....doctors, automechanics, electricians, you name it.
There are many other stories. We don't have the time to second guess or become experts. But it seems that we have to nowadays. We are responsible for ourselves and our success.
Rick
--
"Many a wiser men than I hath
gone to pot." 1649
-------------- Original message --------------
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