Carol Seidman on thu 16 dec 99
Holiday Greetings:
I've been teaching "Adult Education: handbuilding classes for years.
BIG problem getting firing time from the daytime art teacher at the high
school where the classes are held. Im going to solve this situation by
charging the students for firing and doing it myself. The "regulars"
agreed the cost would not deter them and would carry their
pots to my car after class. Okay, so how much to charge for firing
earthenware? I called several shops that do greenware and they base
firing costs on 10% of the cost of their mold. No help! I would
appreciate any suggestions as to a rate per cubic inch, for a cone 05
firing. Many thanks.
Carol Seidman - wishing all the wonderful people on Clayart a festive
and healthy New Year.
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elizabeth priddy on fri 17 dec 99
I have seen this hand waving in many
incarnations and here is the short list
of options that I have personally encountered
over the years as both the student and teacher
side of this monetary coniption.
These are serious suggestions with a
cynical delivery as this is one headache
I would gladly give away-more on this later.
First the hard but accurate way:
Find out your cost for electricity for the
firing. This is electricity cost.
Load and unload a kiln with a timer to get an
estimate of the time it takes to physically do
the work. Double this to accomodate the extra
cleaning reloading etc that is involved with
firing other people's work.
Assume this is moderately skilled labor work
which you would pay someone about $7 per hour
to do for you. Multiply the time by the money.
This is labor cost.
The cost of one bag of kiln wash (you will have
to rewash your shelves more frequently if you
are firing others work-glaze accidents etc. this is materials cost.
add electricity, labor, and materials.
divide this by the cubic inches of firing space
in your kiln.
this gives you a price per cubic inch of work.
Easy but inaccurate way:
have a small-medium-large price scheme and
have each student pay per piece according
to an eyeball estimate of the piece.
(you need to have a chart for yourself that will
estimate how many SML things will fit into your
kiln in the various combinations-ie 20 small
plus 3 medium plus three large will fit in the
kiln, etc)
For the following, I am figuring the
cost as calculated above is $20.
Easy, inaccurate, and unfair way:
each time the class accumulates a load of work,
charge them $20 dollars divided up among them.
Easy, inaccurate, but fair way:
$20 divided by each student with work in the
load, portioned out according to who has how
much work filling the kiln.
I go for the $20 per load way paid by the
students in question and I let them decide how
they want to accumulate the money. If the work
is tricky to load, I make them do it. If they
destroy shelves with sloppy glazing that got
past my eye, they rewash the shelves. If they
ruin the shelf beyond repair, they buy a new
shelf. I am very clear about this before
anything goes in the kiln, in writing.
This is posted in the studio, "Firing Policy".
When I have class, the firing and extra studio
time are factored into the cost of the class
and it is not an issue.
Don't bother, just give them a set firing fee
and include it in the class fee as a materials
fee to be paid to the instructor.
(The cubic inch thing actually works pretty
good if you have a box marked off in cubic
inches inside that you can sit the work in
and just measure the space it takes up. But to
do this, you have to explain "cubic" measuring
to sometimes math phobic people, or just keep
your measuring box your little secret-you can
let them think it is arbitrary but remarkably
fair seeming!)
Or you could slip the day teacher a bribe
and or some homemade food and work out a
better relationship with them whereby you
can have them work your work in with theirs.
Good luck with all that!
Merry Christmas!
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
eric nissen on fri 17 dec 99
I have a similar situation for a couple of my classes. I charge
$2.50/pound for each firing. It seems to work out okay for both the
student and for me.
Sandra Nissen
Woodstock, GA
Linda Mosley on fri 17 dec 99
I occasionally fire for others at my home studio. I
made up a contract that lists the costs and the charge
if faulty glaze or construction makes a mess of my
kiln, which is an incentive to be careful. It might be
good to state a rush order charge as well.
I charge by the shelf at 6"H x 16"D (minus shelf
support space). The customer may use 1/4 shelf, 1/2,
or whole. If 6-12" high space is needed, the charge is
2 x the 6"H. price; 18"H. is 3x. (kiln is 20" deep).
To figure the price, I considered the time it takes to
schedule receiving and customer pickup, loading &
unloading the kiln, firing time, cost of electricity,
plus wear on my kiln. Examples: full bisque kiln is
$36, or 3 shelves x $12 each; one 12"H. x 6"D. piece =
1/4 shelf x 2 high = $6.
=====
Linda Mosley
lindamosley@yahoo.com
ceramic instructor, St. Louis Community College - FV
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taube wilson on fri 17 dec 99
Carol,
The going rate around here (Washington D.C. area) seems
to be 1 cent/cubic inch for low fire (bisque or earthenware).
More if they will be using your glazes.
One thing you might want to think about - my insurance
agent told me that my homeowner's insurance would cover
any kiln disasters(fire or personal injury), even if I'm
selling my work, UNLESS people are coming to my house to
purchase pottery on a regular basis OR I am charging for
the use of my kiln. In those cases I would need to buy
business insurance. I'm sure this varies by state/insurance
company. I'm happy to have this excuse to NOT fire other
people's work for them!
Happy Holidays to All,
Taube Wilson (new(first)kiln due to be delivered in January!)
Annadale,Va.
tpottery@hotmail.com
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Janet Kaiser on sat 18 dec 99
Another way which a potter friend of mine uses: Does not matter how big or
small, he charges by the WEIGHT of each piece. How he reached the figure he
charges per pound or part thereof, I do not know, but he says it works fine
for him. He also sells the clay to his students at so much per pound, so
maybe this is the obvious solution and can be best understood by the
students?
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art, Criccieth, GB-Wales
Home of The International Potters Path
http://www.the-coa.org.uk
postbox@the-coa.org.uk
-----Original Message-----
>I have seen this hand waving in many
>incarnations and here is the short list
>of options that I have personally encountered
>over the years as both the student and teacher
>side of this monetary coniption.
>These are serious suggestions with a
>cynical delivery as this is one headache
>I would gladly give away-more on this later.
>First the hard but accurate way:
>Find out your cost for electricity for the
>firing. This is electricity cost.
>Load and unload a kiln with a timer to get an
>estimate of the time it takes to physically do
>the work. Double this to accomodate the extra
>cleaning reloading etc that is involved with
>firing other people's work.
>Assume this is moderately skilled labor work
>which you would pay someone about $7 per hour
>to do for you. Multiply the time by the money.
>This is labor cost.
>The cost of one bag of kiln wash (you will have
>to rewash your shelves more frequently if you
>are firing others work-glaze accidents etc. this is materials cost.
>add electricity, labor, and materials.
>divide this by the cubic inches of firing space
>in your kiln.
>this gives you a price per cubic inch of work.
>Easy but inaccurate way:
>have a small-medium-large price scheme and
>have each student pay per piece according
>to an eyeball estimate of the piece.
>(you need to have a chart for yourself that will
>estimate how many SML things will fit into your
>kiln in the various combinations-ie 20 small
>plus 3 medium plus three large will fit in the
>kiln, etc)
>For the following, I am figuring the
>cost as calculated above is $20.
>Easy, inaccurate, and unfair way:
>each time the class accumulates a load of work,
>charge them $20 dollars divided up among them.
>Easy, inaccurate, but fair way:
>$20 divided by each student with work in the
>load, portioned out according to who has how
>much work filling the kiln.
>I go for the $20 per load way paid by the
>students in question and I let them decide how
>they want to accumulate the money. If the work
>is tricky to load, I make them do it. If they
>destroy shelves with sloppy glazing that got
>past my eye, they rewash the shelves. If they
>ruin the shelf beyond repair, they buy a new
>shelf. I am very clear about this before
>anything goes in the kiln, in writing.
>This is posted in the studio, "Firing Policy".
>When I have class, the firing and extra studio
>time are factored into the cost of the class
>and it is not an issue.
>Don't bother, just give them a set firing fee
>and include it in the class fee as a materials
>fee to be paid to the instructor.
>(The cubic inch thing actually works pretty
>good if you have a box marked off in cubic
>inches inside that you can sit the work in
>and just measure the space it takes up. But to
>do this, you have to explain "cubic" measuring
>to sometimes math phobic people, or just keep
>your measuring box your little secret-you can
>let them think it is arbitrary but remarkably
>fair seeming!)
>Or you could slip the day teacher a bribe
>and or some homemade food and work out a
>better relationship with them whereby you
>can have them work your work in with theirs.
>Good luck with all that!
>Merry Christmas!
>Elizabeth Priddy
Herb Moses on sat 18 dec 99
------------------
I wrestled with this for a long time, and here is what I charge for custom
firing.
I looked at the cost of electricity. wear on the kiln, etc, and most
importantly, that I have invested in the kilns and need an adequate return.
For the 10 cu ft electric kiln, which we fire to cone 04, the cost is =
=2450/kiln.
That comes out to =24.035/cu in (or .04 rounded up). For the 18 cu ft gas =
kiln,
it is =24200/kiln. That comes out to =24.08/cu in. The major difference is=
that I
have to be there to fire the gas, while the electric I can set and forget.
People have to use our clay, or bring us the label or description in order =
for
us to put it in the gas kiln. The cost also includes use of our glazes, if =
they
wish.
Herb
http://www.usapottery.com
Palm Springs Pottery
198 S. Indian Canyon Drive
Palm Springs, CA 92262
Stephen Mills on tue 21 dec 99
Hi,
At Bath Potters Supplies we operate a firing service in three kilns of
different sizes 1, 2, & 4 cubic feet. Our charges are based on a stated
value for a firing in each kiln. Customers are charged proportionally to
the amount of space in the kiln they take up. The Charge for each firing
is the same whether it is china paint or cone 10 or what have you, and
of course it is "customers risk!"
Steve
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
Tel: **44 (0)1225 311699
Fax: **44 (0)870 0526466
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