Dannon Rhudy on mon 20 dec 99
......the list had
>receives a series of fascistic and nasty posts about teaching, about how
>necessary it was to crack the whip,...... pottery bootcamp......
That strikes me as some pretty serious exaggeration of such
posts as I read regarding teaching approaches.
.......generalissimos wrote. Then they
>will love pottery and be the masters of the clay universe......
Didn't find THAT in any post I read, either. Can't say that I know
everyone, of course, but of the teachers I DO know or know about,
NONE claim to be or produce "masters of the clay universe".
.... I'd have walked the first day, had I been given these repetitive
>assignments. Where would the fun be?....
Well, ummm - it might have lain in learning a new skill.
..... would have taken me so long to get through hating clay, and then
hating the teachers.....
That's a really interesting statement. Where would the "hatred of clay"
have come from? That it is not as easily handled as it sometimes LOOKS
like it is? In my beginning days I found it challenging, and often
frustrating,
but I can't say I "hated" it, ever.
.......... hating the teachers ...who made me do this crap....
Being required to practice in order to learn new skills does not
seem that it should engender hatred, either - but of course each
person is different. However, I would venture to say that if one
were speaking of, say, learning to play a clarinet or the piano
or ANY instrument that one would not imply anything so absurd
as that the teacher was a "fascist" if they required practice and
preparation, in order to be able to go to the next step.
...no expert. I've been throwing for a couple years;.... it is a hobby though
>I am starting to sell my work. I teach beginner classes.....
In teaching situations, one always (my experience, of course) learns
a great deal more from the students than they learn from the teacher.
But that is a generalization, and does not speak to teaching/learning
specific skills.
.... I can help someone to love clay and use it to find the
>creativity and soul in themselves.......
Self-expression is always a challenge, (in one sense, of course,
it is unavoidable - everything we do/make/say being self-expression
whether we like it or not). I suggest that it is easier to express
oneself through a particular medium if one is able to reasonably
manipulate that medium. I exclude nothing from this assertion,
believing that it holds equally true in any area, including verbal
skills and manual skills and mathematical skills and physical
skills, etc. It is my belief
that we are most innovative, most creative in those areas where
we are most comfortable, have greatest experience & skills.
In my beginning class this past term, for instance, there was a
veterinary surgeon. He bemoaned his lack of "creativity" in class.
I asked him if he considered himself creative in
handling surgical problems. Absolutely, he did. Been a surgeon
for many years, knew how to do what needed doing as occasion
arose - as he spoke about this, he began to smile. And he worked
very hard all term to increase his skills, and by the time he did
his final teapot-cups-tray project, it was competent, expressive
of his strong and capable hands and his determination and of
HIMSELF. He did not discuss his soul with me.
......>My approach is simply to demonstrate, explain the process....
....aim is teach them some basic skills......begin to make what they want....
Precisely. Practice makes (almost) perfect. Tiresome perhaps, but true.
...... students are working to develop not mastery .....
relationship that allows them to know the material .....
Precisely again. I've been teaching perhaps five years now.
My observation is that students learn much, much faster if given
specific exercises, and are not left too much on their own to wander
about trying a pinch of this and a little of that. Some of them DO
do that, of course (me not practicing to join the fascisti). And at
the end of term they wonder why those who practiced the lessons
assigned are so much ahead of them in being able to "express
themselves".
regards
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
Norman van der Sluys on wed 22 dec 99
It seems to me that a student's feeling of frustration turns to "hating the clay
and "hating the teacher" when he/she isn't getting the guidance and feedback
necessary to advance in skill, or an explaination of the necessity of practice.
In my teaching (other subjects, but relevant here I think) I try to include some
more rewarding activities in each session. That way the students' frustration
levels don't get too high and they can see the benefits of their practice.
As for mastery of the material, it depends on what you mean. If I had complete
mastery of this medium from forming to firing I would be out of here and on to
something else. No more "Christmas" when opening the glaze kiln? How sad.
Dannon Rhudy wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> ......the list had
> >receives a series of fascistic and nasty posts about teaching, about how
> >necessary it was to crack the whip,...... pottery bootcamp......
>
> That strikes me as some pretty serious exaggeration of such
> posts as I read regarding teaching approaches.
>
> .......generalissimos wrote. Then they
> >will love pottery and be the masters of the clay universe......
>
> Didn't find THAT in any post I read, either. Can't say that I know
> everyone, of course, but of the teachers I DO know or know about,
> NONE claim to be or produce "masters of the clay universe".
>
> .... I'd have walked the first day, had I been given these repetitive
> >assignments. Where would the fun be?....
>
> Well, ummm - it might have lain in learning a new skill.
>
> ..... would have taken me so long to get through hating clay, and then
> hating the teachers.....
>
> That's a really interesting statement. Where would the "hatred of clay"
> have come from? That it is not as easily handled as it sometimes LOOKS
> like it is? In my beginning days I found it challenging, and often
> frustrating,
> but I can't say I "hated" it, ever.
>
> .......... hating the teachers ...who made me do this crap....
>
> Being required to practice in order to learn new skills does not
> seem that it should engender hatred, either - but of course each
> person is different. However, I would venture to say that if one
> were speaking of, say, learning to play a clarinet or the piano
> or ANY instrument that one would not imply anything so absurd
> as that the teacher was a "fascist" if they required practice and
> preparation, in order to be able to go to the next step.
>
> ...no expert. I've been throwing for a couple years;.... it is a hobby though
> >I am starting to sell my work. I teach beginner classes.....
>
> In teaching situations, one always (my experience, of course) learns
> a great deal more from the students than they learn from the teacher.
> But that is a generalization, and does not speak to teaching/learning
> specific skills.
>
> .... I can help someone to love clay and use it to find the
> >creativity and soul in themselves.......
>
> Self-expression is always a challenge, (in one sense, of course,
> it is unavoidable - everything we do/make/say being self-expression
> whether we like it or not). I suggest that it is easier to express
> oneself through a particular medium if one is able to reasonably
> manipulate that medium. I exclude nothing from this assertion,
> believing that it holds equally true in any area, including verbal
> skills and manual skills and mathematical skills and physical
> skills, etc. It is my belief
> that we are most innovative, most creative in those areas where
> we are most comfortable, have greatest experience & skills.
> In my beginning class this past term, for instance, there was a
> veterinary surgeon. He bemoaned his lack of "creativity" in class.
> I asked him if he considered himself creative in
> handling surgical problems. Absolutely, he did. Been a surgeon
> for many years, knew how to do what needed doing as occasion
> arose - as he spoke about this, he began to smile. And he worked
> very hard all term to increase his skills, and by the time he did
> his final teapot-cups-tray project, it was competent, expressive
> of his strong and capable hands and his determination and of
> HIMSELF. He did not discuss his soul with me.
>
> ......>My approach is simply to demonstrate, explain the process....
> ...aim is teach them some basic skills......begin to make what they want....
>
> Precisely. Practice makes (almost) perfect. Tiresome perhaps, but true.
>
> ...... students are working to develop not mastery .....
> relationship that allows them to know the material .....
>
> Precisely again. I've been teaching perhaps five years now.
> My observation is that students learn much, much faster if given
> specific exercises, and are not left too much on their own to wander
> about trying a pinch of this and a little of that. Some of them DO
> do that, of course (me not practicing to join the fascisti). And at
> the end of term they wonder why those who practiced the lessons
> assigned are so much ahead of them in being able to "express
> themselves".
>
> regards
>
> Dannon Rhudy
> potter@koyote.com
Ray Aldridge on thu 23 dec 99
At 08:49 AM 12/22/99 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>It seems to me that a student's feeling of frustration turns to "hating
the clay
>and "hating the teacher" when he/she isn't getting the guidance and feedback
>necessary to advance in skill, or an explaination of the necessity of
practice.
>In my teaching (other subjects, but relevant here I think) I try to
include some
>more rewarding activities in each session. That way the students'
frustration
>levels don't get too high and they can see the benefits of their practice.
>
>As for mastery of the material, it depends on what you mean. If I had
complete
>mastery of this medium from forming to firing I would be out of here and
on to
>something else. No more "Christmas" when opening the glaze kiln? How sad.
>
I know what you mean, and it's an excellent point, but... I still think
that even if I had complete mastery over all the processes of making clay
objects and could make exactly what I wanted to make, there would still be
an enormous challenge in the work.
Many of us do have highly-developed skills and can make pretty much
whatever we want to, within the limitations of the material. But the real
work of art is to take the vague and poorly formed ideas that float through
our brains, and sharpen them up into ideas that can be clothed in reality.
And no matter how sharp and how vital these mental constructs are, it's
still a thrill to see them made real.
So we should not fear excessive skill, because these physical skills, while
absolutely vital to the work, are not the work.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
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