millie carpenter on sat 25 dec 99
Elizabeth
I am in a really picky mood tonight, go and check your bible.
it starts off saying that in the beginning WHEN G-d created the heaven
and earth there was only a void (or chaos) with darkness covering
deep waters. so the first thing was the creation of light, to separate
periods of darkness, day one. day two started the division of the waters
below and the waters above, which was the start of the split between
the planet earth and heaven. this process continued through day three. day 4
the amorphous light was divided into sun, moon, etc.
that said. I feel that Math is an artificial rule. In the natural (G-d's)
world where there is true balance and beauty, things are not perfect
geometric figures. Rather they are each unique and subtly different.
we potters are such an argumentative lot, it is no wonder that our
work must go through fire to be tempered.
Millie in Md. planning a trip to NC where the city lights wont
obliterate the sky at night
>
>
> And if you go the creationist route,
> God created the heavens first,
> then the earth et al.,
> which again leaves the mathematical precision
> and beauty of the cosmos first.
>
> I think that we are fundamentally drawn to
> rational beauty and that irrational details are
> what make the spice of life. In other words,
> the things we as individuals find beautiful are
> superficial details built onto a framework of
> mathematical beauty or ugliness.
>
> As with all things, it is a little of both.
> ---
> Elizabeth Priddy
>
> email: epriddy@usa.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
> Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
>
> On Wed, 22 Dec 1999 09:04:18 Janet Kaiser wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >Thanks Vince,
> >
> >I could not have put it better and quite agree. Mathematicians tend to
> >forget that mathematics are a construct there to interpret and explain. They
> >are a "man-made" set of rules and conventions. Whether pure or applied, the
> >advanced user finds beauty in the maths alone. I am married to a number
> >lover, who can go into raptures about all sorts of statistics and other
> >mathematical convolutions which leave me cold.
> >
> >On the whole I think this maths and appreciation of symmetry/asymmetry
> >thread is a bit like "which came first? The chicken or the egg?" IMHO maths
> >can only explain what is symmetry/asymmetry in a logical mathematical way.
> >Is it not therefore rather preposterous to say that we are appreciating what
> >we see because of our innate mathematical abilities and "inner eye"? If that
> >were true, everyone would have the same subjective taste. This is clearly
> >not the case.
> >
> >Janet Kaiser
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Vince Pitelka
> >To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> >Date: 20 December 1999 03:27
> >Subject: Re: Symmetry, Asymmetry, mathematics
> >
> >
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >>mathematics is at the heart of this subject.
> >
> >This strikes me as a very strange response. Mathematics has nothing to do
> >with this subject. I suppose it is possible to interpret asymmetry and
> >symmetry in mathematical terms, but that is after the fact.
> >
> >>all symmetrical pots are based on parabolas.
> >
> >Huh? What about the cylinder? There are plenty of beautiful, symmetrical
> >pots that do not contain parabolas.
> >
> >>And you don't need to know the math to know and
> >>appreciate the beauty it delineates.
> >
> >The math does not delineate the beauty, thank god.
> >
> >>Form is mathematics. And intuition about the
> >>math is all it takes to appreciate beauty.
> >
> >Sorry to be so contrary, but this is indeed a strange interpretation. As I
> >said, mathematics may provide a way of interpreting form, but the form was
> >there before the math. Intuition about math has nothing to do with
> >appreciating beauty unless you happen to love math.
> >
> >Best wishes -
> >- Vince
> >
> >Vince Pitelka
> >Home - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
> >615/597-5376
> >Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> >615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> >Appalachian Center for Crafts
> >Tennessee Technological University
> >1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> >
>
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> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Cindy Strnad on sun 26 dec 99
Millie,
Actually, I suppose this depends upon your translation, but all mine say,
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and the earth was
without form and void, and darkness was on the face of the earth." So give
Liz a break, okay?
She's not saying that nothing can be beautiful unless it's mathematically
balanced and symmetrical. What she's saying is simply that everything,
whether symmetrical or not, can be defined by mathematical patterns, and
that those patterns, too, are a form of beauty. (Am I interpreting you
correctly, Elizabeth?)
Certain patterns are more pleasing to most of us--for what reason, I
couldn't say. The "golden" rectangle, the two-thirds off type of asymmetry
("never" center your photographic subject), and so on. I do most of this
sort of thing by instinct, and so I can't define much of it, but I'm good at
it. That's the unconscious part she's talking about.
I'm not one to go on and on about mathematics. In fact, I confess I'm one of
those folks who wants a calculator and complete silence in order to add up a
short column. Nevertheless, I believe I understand what Elizabeth is saying.
The math is there. Always has been. It's in the universe, and it's in us,
whether we're equipped to bring it out into the rational, conscious realm or
not. At some deep, primitive level, she's saying we can all sense it (some
more than others). I think she's right. And yes, I believe those
mathematical principles are from and in God, too, and that He used them to
create the heavens and the earth.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
Custer, SD
Elca Branman on mon 27 dec 99
It just struck me.
I listen to music and enjoy it,but i don't read music, have no knowledge
of harmony ,theory ,keys( I don't even have the vocabulary to describe
what i don't know)
I guess that math might be to art what music theory is to music;you
don't have to know it to recognize aspects of it, and you can be
completely enraptured without the slightest clue as to the science and
theory.
Ditto math and form...
astronomy and admiration of the heavens..
Maybe a working knowledge of structure might enhance, but it may not be
essential....or is it just real late at night and maybe i should go to
bed?
Elca.. at home in Sarasota,Florida,USA
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elizabeth priddy on mon 27 dec 99
so the first thing was the creation of light, to separate
>periods of darkness, day one....
mathematical principles were there in the void, they have no form.
In the natural (G-d's)
>world where there is true balance and beauty, things are not perfect
>geometric figures.
perfect geometric figures are only a tiny part of the math i am referring to.
This is definitely not where I was going with this...so I will just refrain from
Happy New Year!
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
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Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
elizabeth priddy on tue 28 dec 99
You got it!
I hate that philosophy, the pure love of
knowledge, has somehow gotten a bad rap
and that people these days seem intimidated
by things not "in their feild".
There was a time when people felt qualified
to talk about anything without being "experts"
and they managed just fine. And had some
remarkable insights, too.
The music analogy is perfect, exactly what
I was talking about with my musician husband
on the way home from family christmas...
Here's to a new year of unfettered conversation
and exploration with good friends here on
Clayart that I have never seen, but feel that
I know...and to seeing them in person at NCECA
Charlotte...
Happy New Year!
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:04:39 Elca Branman wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>It just struck me.
>
>I listen to music and enjoy it,but i don't read music, have no knowledge
>of harmony ,theory ,keys( I don't even have the vocabulary to describe
>what i don't know)
>
>I guess that math might be to art what music theory is to music;you
>don't have to know it to recognize aspects of it, and you can be
>completely enraptured without the slightest clue as to the science and
>theory.
>
>Ditto math and form...
>astronomy and admiration of the heavens..
>Maybe a working knowledge of structure might enhance, but it may not be
>essential....or is it just real late at night and maybe i should go to
>bed?
>Elca.. at home in Sarasota,Florida,USA
>
>________________________________________________________________
>YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
>Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
>Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
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