Jack & Peggy on sun 2 jan 00
I am a studio production potter, 61 yrs young, throwing pots on a Shimpo
wheel for over 25 yrs and now having back troubles that started ten yrs ago
and have become chronic-acute. I need to change, obviously, and one of the
possibilities is a standup wheel. I've been reading the material contributed
here by "'my community" and have some articles by John Glick, but I can't
for the life of me figure out how one would control an electric wheel with a
hand control and not lose a great deal in the process, having had the use of
both hands for the throwing. Especially with the Shimpo, it requires such a
careful, positive control.
I know I'm slow----------forgive me! Does anyone have
something more to contribute to this discussion?
----- Original Message -----
From: CINDI ANDERSON
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 12:02 AM
Subject: FRIT 3195
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Not sure what's in it, but these are some equivalent FRITS you may be
> familar with, and maybe can find the composition of one of them:
>
> GENERAL GF-115
> FUSION F-2
> O.HOMMEL 399
>
> Cindi
>
> p.s. we have 3195 for sale if you are looking for some
> http://www.BigCeramicStore.com
>
>
> Ray Aldridge wrote:
> >
> > ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> > At 02:10 PM 12/30/99 EST, you wrote:
> > >----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
> > >Ray said the following:
> > >If you throw one mug, you can extract only so much information
> > >for future reference. If you throw a hundred similar mugs, not only
are
> > >you more likely to happen on a subtle combination of form and
decoration
> > >that is much more pleasing than the majority of your mugs, you also
have
> > >the benefit of comparison among the pots. And we shouldn't discount
the
> > >esthetic contribution of skilled making, which is always clearly
evident in
> > >the finished pot. That visible ease and fluidity comes from making a
lot
> > >of pots.
> > >
> > >[Dwiggins, Sandra] I totally agree with you, Ray, about comparison
across
> > time.
> > >I sometimes can't believe how much my work improves and changes when I
do the
> > >same form over and over. Or should I say the same concept, over and
over.
> > >Because this happens so often, I usually try and keep the original
concept
> > piece
> > >to compare my later work with--whether it's mugs or plates, or
anything.
> > One
> > >thing that bothers me though, is that sometimes the freshness that you
> > capture
> > >in that first piece you do with a new concept is lost. How does one
> > keep that
> > >freshness and inventiveness when doing multiples of the same thing?
> > >Sandy
> >
> > Sandy, I'm afraid for me this falls into the ever-growing category of
> > "problems I wish I had."
> >
> > Usually the first time I make a new form, I'm painfully aware of how
> > incompetent it looks. It isn't until I've made several of a new form
that
> > I even begin to feel happy with all the elements of that pot. For
example,
> > I made some new teapots for my New Year's Eve firing, and it wasn't
until I
> > took the first one from the bisque that I realized the spout was too
big.
> >
> > Live and learn, I guess.
> >
> > Ray
> >
> > Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
> > http://www.goodpots.com
>
Mike Gordon on mon 3 jan 00
Hi,
I.ve thrown on Shimpo's, Brents and Creative Industries electric wheels
and except for on and off - I set the speed I feel comfortable with and
push the floor pedal in the case of the latter 2 out of the way. I see
no reason to keep adjusting the speed while I throw.Mike
Charlie and Linda on mon 3 jan 00
Jack
When I did a part time stint at Tom Gray Pottery I learned to stand and throw.
This also included "hand peddling".
The setup was a Brent wheel was placed in a 100 gallon Rubbermaid [that's a
brand] water trough. This trough is used to hold water for cattle/horses.
Envision a deep cast iron tub made of a very strong plastic/resin combo. The
trough was blocked up off the floor with cinder blocks to bring the edge of the
trough up to "just above belt level". The wheel was set into the trough
oriented to the right and small bricks were placed under the three legs to prop
up the wheel so that the wheel head remain just below the rim of the trough.
The rim makes a great place to rest your arms and provides a stabilizing point
to help in centering. The tub catches almost all splashes and trimmings which
allows for recycling and less dust.
Now for the part about the pedal and the hand.... A board was placed on top of
the trough spanning the opening just to the right of the wheel. On this we
placed the foot pedal and tools. It took a day to adjust to the difference.
Within a week I never even thought about it. Now I have less control when I
control a wheel with my foot.
The deal is that most wheel work doesn't need constant variance in speed. I
adjust the speed for centering, pulling, shaping, and the final touch up. That
sound like a lot of moving around but the control is right there beside your arm
and doesn't add much time to the production.
The best part of all this is what it does for your back. By leaning against
the edge of the trough and by resting your arms against the rim you take some of
the strain off you shoulders and back. Since you are standing and NOT using your
foot to control the wheel speed this allow you to move freely and shift your
weight around while throwing.
Anyway, try it. You might like it in a few days.
Charlie Riggs
fireclay@dsslink.net
Sharon on mon 3 jan 00
-------------------
You can stand to throw and still use your foot pedal on the ground.
It is better for your body mechanics to have both feet on the floor
when you can. You can learn to judge when you can use the same
wheel speed for a time - perhaps to center and open, for example.
Sharon
The Lane Pottery, Hinsdale, Illinois
sharon=40thelanepottery.com
Marvin Flowerman on mon 3 jan 00
Hi:
Using a Shimpo model with hand/foot control in one piece (this is the Shimpo
model made in the USA):
First of course the wheel should be palced on a sturdy stand to bring the
level of the wheel head up to a comfortable height for you.
Second, if you think about it, most of the time when you are throwing the
wheel is moving at a constant speed, and the foot pedal is used primarily to
stop and start the wheel head motion. However, you can readily forego the
comfort of stopping and starting and simply let the wheel run. The
occasional change in speed, or stopping, can be achieved when your hands are
off of the clay by moving the hand lever.
I have found this much more preferable than trying to stand on one leg while
you use the other leg on the foot pedal if you have a Shimpo model with a
foot pedal on the floor. The one leg approach, even if you try to shift
legs, results in very tired and uncomfortable legs.
It takes some getting used to having the wheel running even when you don't
need it to be running, but this works well, is easy on the back and the legs.
Hope this suggestion helps you.
All the best.
Marvin Flowerman (marvpots@aol.com)
Jim Cullen on mon 3 jan 00
Peggy...
I'm thowing on a 22 year old Shimpo and speed control is a problem. My foot
pedal, which is now usless, has an upright arm with a red hand know at the
top (I'm sure yours is the same). I turned the arm 90 degrees so it sticks
out from the side a couple of inches. The red know happens to be about belly
height so if my hands are busy I can simply take a step around to the right
and press my belly against the knob and slow down or speed up the wheel as
necessary.
One trick I've learned, since I'm left-handed is to trim with the wheel going
clockwise. This allows me to use my right hand as a brace on the pot, usinmg
the lid method, and having better eye-hand coordination with my left hand to
hold the trim tool. I stand along side the wheel and again rest my belly on
the red knob and have great control on the speed.
We do what we need to.
KEEP CENTERED
Cullen
Naperville, Illinois
Jack & Peggy on tue 4 jan 00
Thanks to all for the suggestions re:standing to throw with the Shimpo.
There seems to be a misunderstanding with most: the Shimpo model I have is
as Marvin describes; hand/foot control in one peice; raise the wheel and you
raise the control, ---no choice (cone drive). I guess I'll have to try his
method,--------------a sort of constant speed throwing, but I'm not looking
forward to it.
Thanks all, Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: Marvin Flowerman
To:
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2000 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Standing to Throw
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hi:
> Using a Shimpo model with hand/foot control in one piece (this is the
Shimpo
> model made in the USA):
> First of course the wheel should be palced on a sturdy stand to bring the
> level of the wheel head up to a comfortable height for you.
> Second, if you think about it, most of the time when you are throwing the
> wheel is moving at a constant speed, and the foot pedal is used primarily
to
> stop and start the wheel head motion. However, you can readily forego the
> comfort of stopping and starting and simply let the wheel run. The
> occasional change in speed, or stopping, can be achieved when your hands
are
> off of the clay by moving the hand lever.
> I have found this much more preferable than trying to stand on one leg
while
> you use the other leg on the foot pedal if you have a Shimpo model with a
> foot pedal on the floor. The one leg approach, even if you try to shift
> legs, results in very tired and uncomfortable legs.
> It takes some getting used to having the wheel running even when you don't
> need it to be running, but this works well, is easy on the back and the
legs.
> Hope this suggestion helps you.
>
> All the best.
>
> Marvin Flowerman (marvpots@aol.com)
>
Percy Toms on tue 4 jan 00
In a message dated 3/1/00 1:31:58 PM, clayart@earthlink.net writes:
>Hi,
>I.ve thrown on Shimpo's, Brents and Creative Industries electric wheels
>and except for on and off - I set the speed I feel comfortable with and
>push the floor pedal in the case of the latter 2 out of the way. I see
>no reason to keep adjusting the speed while I throw.Mike
Understandable - if you only throw forms that are not very wide or everted.
But work on platters and broad bowls over a few pounds weight, and they won't
let a thrower forget the need for an adjustable wheel speed.
Ned
Paul Lewing on tue 4 jan 00
I made this transition a few years before I quit throwing. I loved (and
still do) my old Shimpo, but I'm 6' 3"- not built like the typical
Japanese thrower. My back got really bad so, while I never threw
standing up, I blocked the wheel up about 6" so I could throw in a more
comfortable sitting position. But of course, the foot pedal went up
too.
I taught myself to throw using the hand lever. It took several months
for me to feel completely comfortable with it, but it did eventually get
to be as natural as controlling speed with my foot. The hard part was
learning to let go before I changed speeds. But I found that on most
pots I only changed speeds a couple of times. I'd start with it pretty
fast to center, then slow down to pull up the walls, and slow down again
to finish up and cut off. But on small things like mugs, which I always
threw off the hump, I learned to keep the wheel going at one fairly fast
speed all the time. I even picked the completed pots off the hump
without slowing the wheel down. It was very efficient. I'd center a
big lump and not change speeds till it was all gone.
Good luck,
Paul Lewing, Seattle, whose back is still glad he quit throwing.
Paul Taylor on tue 4 jan 00
----------
>From: Jack & Peggy
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Standing to Throw
>Date: Mon, Jan 3, 2000, 12:52 am
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I am a studio production potter, 61 yrs young, throwing pots on a Shimpo
>wheel for over 25 yrs and now having back troubles that started ten yrs ago
>and have become chronic-acute. I need to change, obviously, and one of the
>possibilities is a standup wheel. I've been reading the material contributed
>here by "'my community" and have some articles by John Glick, but I can't
>for the life of me figure out how one would control an electric wheel with a
>hand control and not lose a great deal in the process, having had the use of
>both hands for the throwing. Especially with the Shimpo, it requires such a
>careful, positive control.
> I know I'm slow----------forgive me! Does anyone have
>something more to contribute to this discussion?
>----- Original Message -----
>
>
>Dear Peggy
>
>
> I have never met a potter with siliceosis but I have also never met
>a potter without back trouble.
>
> Three years ago although of being very fit and flexible ( tie chie
>instructor ) The back gave out. I have been very respectful of my back so I
>feel that back trouble is probably inevitable for potters.
>
> Luckily my spare wheel a shimpo has a cable controller. I have
>mounted it on blocks and stand to throw.
>
> You could enquire whether you can covert your shimpo.
>
>
> Paul T
Bonnie Staffel on tue 4 jan 00
Jan 4, 2000
Dear Paul,
I am sorry to hear about your back problems. Causes could be many,
however, I have been potting 51 years and teaching quite a few of
these. Whenever I had a student who complained of back problems, I
suggested that they raise the position of their stools, if adjustable,
or with bats, so that their hips/elbows are a little above the
turntable. The premise is to change your throwing position from lifting
the clay cylinder from a parallel position to one of being above the
centering and pulling up from above. You are still sitting but from a
higher point. Much less fatiguing than standing up. I have seen
potters throwing from the standing position and they still place the
wheel head even with their elbows. That is still a strain, especially
for a woman. Another tiring position is to use a stool which has a tip
back position like a common chair or tractor seat. The stool should
have a slightly tipped forward position to keep the back and hips at a
natural angle. You could place some risers under the two back legs of
your stool to give it a forward tip.
This should be tried until you get the proper height and forward tip
until you back does not pain you any more. If you have any questions,
do not hesitate to ask.
Bonnie Staffel
bstaffel@torchlake.com
Jack & Peggy on sun 9 jan 00
Thanks, Bonnie;
I'm doing exactly as you
described;-------------tilting my chair, etc. This may be the only answer,
since I have deep-vien varicose viens and the associated circulation
problems that might preclude standing to throw. (My family doctor tells me
I'm much better sitting, as long as the keel holds out. ) 51 years!! I don't
feel so bad now, confident that I have more than a few flying hours left on
the old airframe!
Jack Ouellette
Arichat, Cape
Breton
----- Original Message -----
From: Bonnie Staffel
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 5:01 PM
Subject: Standing to throw
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Jan 4, 2000
>
> Dear Paul,
>
> I am sorry to hear about your back problems. Causes could be many,
> however, I have been potting 51 years and teaching quite a few of
> these. Whenever I had a student who complained of back problems, I
> suggested that they raise the position of their stools, if adjustable,
> or with bats, so that their hips/elbows are a little above the
> turntable. The premise is to change your throwing position from lifting
> the clay cylinder from a parallel position to one of being above the
> centering and pulling up from above. You are still sitting but from a
> higher point. Much less fatiguing than standing up. I have seen
> potters throwing from the standing position and they still place the
> wheel head even with their elbows. That is still a strain, especially
> for a woman. Another tiring position is to use a stool which has a tip
> back position like a common chair or tractor seat. The stool should
> have a slightly tipped forward position to keep the back and hips at a
> natural angle. You could place some risers under the two back legs of
> your stool to give it a forward tip.
>
> This should be tried until you get the proper height and forward tip
> until you back does not pain you any more. If you have any questions,
> do not hesitate to ask.
>
> Bonnie Staffel
> bstaffel@torchlake.com
>
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