Estrellita Ammirati on thu 6 jan 00
I've been a lurker on Clayart for the past four months
and have learned a great deal from you wonderful
potters. Now I'm ready to pose my own question.
I am interested in making water fountains via wheel
and handbuilding. Thus far I have made two and each
one cracked in the glaze firing. I make a bowl, ring
and "flat disc/platform" on the wheel. I then use the
platform as a base to handbuild my design. The
platforms were 13 inches and 10 inches respectively,
about 1/4 inch thick. The handbuilt section was about
8-10 inches high covering a great deal of the surface.
Bisque firing goes well, then I use three shades of
stain under bottled clear. It's the glaze firing at
cone 6 which cracks. Can anyone offer any
suggestions as to how I can prevent further cracks.
I've already followed the advise of proper drying with
newspaper and plastic. Since I fire at a studio I
have no control over slow, steady rising temperature
nor the use of silicon sand to perhaps afford movement
with shrinkage. Any advise will be appreciated since
my goal is to succeed at my water fountains. Thanks in
advance.
Estrellita
--- "Phyllis E. Tilton" wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> Gerard: There is another step that your friend can
> take to protect his
> handbuilt project. First, be careful not to use too
> much water on a
> piece--the rehiydrating can cause uneven moisture
> and that can result,
> sometimes, in slumping or sagging. I use a damp
> cloth to cover --damp not
> wet. It can be old sheets, shirts, whatever. Terry
> toweling can be too heavy
> sometimes and might leave and impression in the clay
> or eliminate some very
> fine detail. I also wrap it around another part to
> keep that part from drying
> out while I am working on details, etc. After I
> cover it, between sessions of
> working on it, I then wrap securely with the
> plastic. I hope this will help
> him.
>
> Phyllis Tilton
> Daisypet@aol.com
>
__________________________________________________
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Pamala Browne on thu 6 jan 00
I am not sure that I fully understand the construction, but my first advise
would be to increase the thickness of the platform-- it sounds like there
may be too much weight for a 1/4 inch base. pamalab Where are they
cracking?
----- Original Message -----
From: Estrellita Ammirati
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: cracks in water fountain
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I've been a lurker on Clayart for the past four months
> and have learned a great deal from you wonderful
> potters. Now I'm ready to pose my own question.
>
> I am interested in making water fountains via wheel
> and handbuilding. Thus far I have made two and each
> one cracked in the glaze firing. I make a bowl, ring
> and "flat disc/platform" on the wheel. I then use the
> platform as a base to handbuild my design. The
> platforms were 13 inches and 10 inches respectively,
> about 1/4 inch thick. The handbuilt section was about
> 8-10 inches high covering a great deal of the surface.
> Bisque firing goes well, then I use three shades of
> stain under bottled clear. It's the glaze firing at
> cone 6 which cracks. Can anyone offer any
> suggestions as to how I can prevent further cracks.
> I've already followed the advise of proper drying with
> newspaper and plastic. Since I fire at a studio I
> have no control over slow, steady rising temperature
> nor the use of silicon sand to perhaps afford movement
> with shrinkage. Any advise will be appreciated since
> my goal is to succeed at my water fountains. Thanks in
> advance.
>
> Estrellita
> --- "Phyllis E. Tilton" wrote:
> > ----------------------------Original
> > message----------------------------
> > Gerard: There is another step that your friend can
> > take to protect his
> > handbuilt project. First, be careful not to use too
> > much water on a
> > piece--the rehiydrating can cause uneven moisture
> > and that can result,
> > sometimes, in slumping or sagging. I use a damp
> > cloth to cover --damp not
> > wet. It can be old sheets, shirts, whatever. Terry
> > toweling can be too heavy
> > sometimes and might leave and impression in the clay
> > or eliminate some very
> > fine detail. I also wrap it around another part to
> > keep that part from drying
> > out while I am working on details, etc. After I
> > cover it, between sessions of
> > working on it, I then wrap securely with the
> > plastic. I hope this will help
> > him.
> >
> > Phyllis Tilton
> > Daisypet@aol.com
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://messenger.yahoo.com
Dannon Rhudy on fri 7 jan 00
Try making your fountains in separate pieces and firing them
separately also. Put them together when they're glaze fired.
Also makes it easier to ship them, etc.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
At 01:37 PM 01/06/2000 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I've been a lurker on Clayart for the past four months
>and have learned a great deal from you wonderful
>potters. Now I'm ready to pose my own question.
>
>I am interested in making water fountains via wheel
>and handbuilding. Thus far I have made two and each
>one cracked in the glaze firing. I make a bowl, ring
>and "flat disc/platform" on the wheel. I then use the
>platform as a base to handbuild my design. The
>platforms were 13 inches and 10 inches respectively,
>about 1/4 inch thick. The handbuilt section was about
>8-10 inches high covering a great deal of the surface.
> Bisque firing goes well, then I use three shades of
>stain under bottled clear. It's the glaze firing at
>cone 6 which cracks. Can anyone offer any
>suggestions as to how I can prevent further cracks.
>I've already followed the advise of proper drying with
>newspaper and plastic. Since I fire at a studio I
>have no control over slow, steady rising temperature
>nor the use of silicon sand to perhaps afford movement
>with shrinkage. Any advise will be appreciated since
>my goal is to succeed at my water fountains. Thanks in
>advance.
>
>Estrellita
>--- "Phyllis E. Tilton" wrote:
>> ----------------------------Original
>> message----------------------------
>> Gerard: There is another step that your friend can
>> take to protect his
>> handbuilt project. First, be careful not to use too
>> much water on a
>> piece--the rehiydrating can cause uneven moisture
>> and that can result,
>> sometimes, in slumping or sagging. I use a damp
>> cloth to cover --damp not
>> wet. It can be old sheets, shirts, whatever. Terry
>> toweling can be too heavy
>> sometimes and might leave and impression in the clay
>> or eliminate some very
>> fine detail. I also wrap it around another part to
>> keep that part from drying
>> out while I am working on details, etc. After I
>> cover it, between sessions of
>> working on it, I then wrap securely with the
>> plastic. I hope this will help
>> him.
>>
>> Phyllis Tilton
>> Daisypet@aol.com
>>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://messenger.yahoo.com
>
Estrellita Ammirati on fri 7 jan 00
Since I'm new at "posting questions" I'll try to do a
better job and give you guys more information
regarding the cracks in my water fountain base.
The first one I constructed had a 13" diameter
platform and most of the weight was on the back end of
the design, probably 2/3rds which consisted of a 8
inch high thin wall with a second design in front.
The front design was another three sided rectangle,
about 6 inches high and 2 inches wide with a trough on
top to catch the water which then ran down the front.
Wish I could send a picture. The crack was about 2
inches off center, to the left if you were looking
straight at the fountain. The crack really wasn't a
traditional "S" crack but closer to a vertical with
very slight curves. It cracked pretty much the whole
length leaving perhaps 1/2 inch on each side, enough
to salvage with E6000 glue. The second fountain was a
10 inch diameter platform with two vessels imposed on
top. I threw two cylinders, minus the bottoms with a
horizontal rim so the water overflowed from one to the
other. One cylinder was 8 inches across and perhaps 6
inches high, the second was 6 inches across and 8
inches high. The result, 2 separate cracks, very
close to each other, perhaps 1/4th inch apart. But
they weren't the same length. If you can imagine the
first crack as being about 3 inches then on the tail
end of that crack, maybe the last inch and 1/4th inch
next to it starts the second crack of about 6 inches.
Again the cracks were off center to the left, just
like the first fountain but they didn't extend as far
as the first. These cracks were also more vertical
with a slight curve. No cracks were noted where the
pieces were joined and the cracks stayed to one side.
I hope this helps. Again wish I could send a
picture. Hope everyone has a good imagination and I
will definitely try a thicker platform as recommended.
Thanks,
Estrellita
--- Pamala Browne wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> I am not sure that I fully understand the
> construction, but my first advise
> would be to increase the thickness of the platform--
> it sounds like there
> may be too much weight for a 1/4 inch base. pamalab
> Where are they
> cracking?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Estrellita Ammirati
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: cracks in water fountain
>
>
> > ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> > I've been a lurker on Clayart for the past four
> months
> > and have learned a great deal from you wonderful
> > potters. Now I'm ready to pose my own question.
> >
> > I am interested in making water fountains via
> wheel
> > and handbuilding. Thus far I have made two and
> each
> > one cracked in the glaze firing. I make a bowl,
> ring
> > and "flat disc/platform" on the wheel. I then use
> the
> > platform as a base to handbuild my design. The
> > platforms were 13 inches and 10 inches
> respectively,
> > about 1/4 inch thick. The handbuilt section was
> about
> > 8-10 inches high covering a great deal of the
> surface.
> > Bisque firing goes well, then I use three shades
> of
> > stain under bottled clear. It's the glaze firing
> at
> > cone 6 which cracks. Can anyone offer any
> > suggestions as to how I can prevent further
> cracks.
> > I've already followed the advise of proper drying
> with
> > newspaper and plastic. Since I fire at a studio I
> > have no control over slow, steady rising
> temperature
> > nor the use of silicon sand to perhaps afford
> movement
> > with shrinkage. Any advise will be appreciated
> since
> > my goal is to succeed at my water fountains.
> Thanks in
> > advance.
> >
> > Estrellita
> > --- "Phyllis E. Tilton" wrote:
> > > ----------------------------Original
> > > message----------------------------
> > > Gerard: There is another step that your friend
> can
> > > take to protect his
> > > handbuilt project. First, be careful not to use
> too
> > > much water on a
> > > piece--the rehiydrating can cause uneven
> moisture
> > > and that can result,
> > > sometimes, in slumping or sagging. I use a damp
> > > cloth to cover --damp not
> > > wet. It can be old sheets, shirts, whatever.
> Terry
> > > toweling can be too heavy
> > > sometimes and might leave and impression in the
> clay
> > > or eliminate some very
> > > fine detail. I also wrap it around another part
> to
> > > keep that part from drying
> > > out while I am working on details, etc. After I
> > > cover it, between sessions of
> > > working on it, I then wrap securely with the
> > > plastic. I hope this will help
> > > him.
> > >
> > > Phyllis Tilton
> > > Daisypet@aol.com
> > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://messenger.yahoo.com
>
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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Mike Gordon on fri 7 jan 00
Hi,
>From what you describe... I think you must keep the foot of the thrown
platform the same diameter as the base of the handbuilt section.The
weight has to be supported from below and I would increase the thickness
to 1/2". Mike
Gayle Bair on fri 7 jan 00
Dear Estrellita,
You didn't mention where the cracks occurred.
Since you are firing in a studio you might try
to ensure that your green pieces are not being tapped
or knocked by other pieces when being placed in
to the kiln. I have found that if I am not cautious
when the piece is green and I allow it be knocked
It may not show the crack when bisqued but will
when glaze fired. The slightest tap can do it as it
is so fragile at this stage!
I hope this tip helps.
If you need other suggestions regarding fountains you
can contact me. I have taught fountain workshops.
Gayle Bair
gaylebair@earthlink.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of Estrellita Ammirati
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 10:37 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: cracks in water fountain
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I've been a lurker on Clayart for the past four months
and have learned a great deal from you wonderful
potters. Now I'm ready to pose my own question.
I am interested in making water fountains via wheel
and handbuilding. Thus far I have made two and each
one cracked in the glaze firing. I make a bowl, ring
and "flat disc/platform" on the wheel. I then use the
platform as a base to handbuild my design. The
platforms were 13 inches and 10 inches respectively,
about 1/4 inch thick. The handbuilt section was about
8-10 inches high covering a great deal of the surface.
Bisque firing goes well, then I use three shades of
stain under bottled clear. It's the glaze firing at
cone 6 which cracks. Can anyone offer any
suggestions as to how I can prevent further cracks.
I've already followed the advise of proper drying with
newspaper and plastic. Since I fire at a studio I
have no control over slow, steady rising temperature
nor the use of silicon sand to perhaps afford movement
with shrinkage. Any advise will be appreciated since
my goal is to succeed at my water fountains. Thanks in
advance.
Estrellita
--- "Phyllis E. Tilton" wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> Gerard: There is another step that your friend can
> take to protect his
> handbuilt project. First, be careful not to use too
> much water on a
> piece--the rehiydrating can cause uneven moisture
> and that can result,
> sometimes, in slumping or sagging. I use a damp
> cloth to cover --damp not
> wet. It can be old sheets, shirts, whatever. Terry
> toweling can be too heavy
> sometimes and might leave and impression in the clay
> or eliminate some very
> fine detail. I also wrap it around another part to
> keep that part from drying
> out while I am working on details, etc. After I
> cover it, between sessions of
> working on it, I then wrap securely with the
> plastic. I hope this will help
> him.
>
> Phyllis Tilton
> Daisypet@aol.com
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
Stephani Stephenson on sat 8 jan 00
couple of suggestions for reducing cracks.
not sure I'm picturing the configuration of the piece or whether pieces
are fired together or apart, however:
Think about your clay body ,it's shrinkage and it's grog content.
You'll need a grogged body to do worryfree larger slab pieces .You can
go nuts babying the wrong clay body along. Especially when there are
lots of nice healthy robust clay bodies waiting to serve you! So drop
that bad boy body if it doesn't treat you right!
Are you firing components together? perhaps cracking is occurring as
the pieces shrink in kiln. Are they getting hung up on the shelf? There
was a lot of discussion on the list a while back about placing grog on
the shelf to help accommodate shrinkage of wide diameter pieces. Also
discussion about firing platters on end versus horizontally.
I agree with Pamalab, the thickness of the slab sounds a bit thin in
comparison to the diameter. Try making a thicker slab , even 1/8"
thicker. If the thin slab is essential to your design, and you're doing
things right in the construction ,as in not allowing excess water to sit
on the piece, then I'd say try a few different clay bodies.
your sister in slab
Stephani Stephenson
Alchemie studio
Leucadia, CA
mudmistress@earthlink.net
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