Tommy Humphries on fri 7 jan 00
Hello and Happy New Year to all,
I have a question about Blue Diamond kilns. We have been using ( or trying
to) a large oval Blue Diamond kiln for ^6 firings. This Kiln has been
steadily becoming slower and slower reaching cone. The last firing it took
over 24 hours and still slightly underfired. It doesn't matter if the kiln
is loaded heavy or light. A company rep. said that the kiln should fire in
12-14 hours, and that seemed to be the case with the first few firings.
We have moved the kiln as close to the transformer as possible (6') , this
seemed to help for a while, but didn't last. The kiln is only 8 mo. old and
has been fired appx. once a week, so elements should not be a problem.
We are at the end of our patience with this kiln, The company has been
little or no help, the last call met with the response "we've done all we
can" .
Have any of you had any experience with this kiln co. or had any symptoms
similar to this?
Cindy Strnad on sat 8 jan 00
Tommy,
I've had the same trouble with a Paragon kiln. I was told to split the
middle four elements (which are all attached to a single relay) into two
relays, and upgrade the circuit from 60 to 70 amps. I haven't done this yet.
It's kind of scary, as I'm not comfortable with electrical work and it's
hard as **** to find a competent electrician around here who is willing to
work on such a small job.
Paragon was completely unwilling to work with me, too, so I understand how
frustrated you are. I'll add Blue Diamond to the list of kiln companies I
don't buy from--that's for sure.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
Custer, SD
Troy Judd on sat 8 jan 00
The first thing I would do would be to check and make sure that the
electricity reaching the kiln was still at the correct voltage. The only
tricky part is that it would be best to do this with the kiln pulling it's
normal load. This would at least narrow the problem down to either the kiln
or the electrical connection. If it's the electrical connection, I suggest
having a good electrician look at it, unless you really know what you're
doing. The only thing you might be able to check yourself would be the
wire size coming to the outlet. At distances of less than fifty feet you
need #10 for 30 amps, #8 for 50 amps. If it's further than fifty feet from
the panel the wire gets bigger.
If it turns out to be the kiln, you might (with it unplugged) check and make
sure the electrical connections (like where the elements are attached) are
tight. One loose connection could have the effect you are describing, with
the steady decrease due to increasing oxidation. Of course, the loose
connection problem could also be a problem in the electricity coming to the
kiln.
Hope some of this helps. I do general remodeling (besides being a potter)
and have had quite a lot of experience at electrical troubleshooting.
Troy Judd
KierCroft Ceramics
kiercroft@dhc.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Humphries
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Friday, January 07, 2000 4:38 PM
Subject: Blue Diamind Quandry
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hello and Happy New Year to all,
>
>I have a question about Blue Diamond kilns. We have been using ( or trying
>to) a large oval Blue Diamond kiln for ^6 firings. This Kiln has been
>steadily becoming slower and slower reaching cone. The last firing it took
>over 24 hours and still slightly underfired. It doesn't matter if the kiln
>is loaded heavy or light. A company rep. said that the kiln should fire in
>12-14 hours, and that seemed to be the case with the first few firings.
>
>We have moved the kiln as close to the transformer as possible (6') , this
>seemed to help for a while, but didn't last. The kiln is only 8 mo. old and
>has been fired appx. once a week, so elements should not be a problem.
>
>We are at the end of our patience with this kiln, The company has been
>little or no help, the last call met with the response "we've done all we
>can" .
>
>Have any of you had any experience with this kiln co. or had any symptoms
>similar to this?
>
Tim Lynch on sat 8 jan 00
You say it shouldn't be the elements but that is what it sounds like. Have
you been doing any firings that might be considered hard on the elements.
For example, have you added any combustables? This will dramatically
shorten the life of elements. Also, what is the electric requirement for
the kiln (I am assuming it is electric?) If it is 240 and you have it wired
in for 208, it will definitely take longer to fire. Also check the gauge of
the wire to the outlet. It should be 6 or even 4 gauge. * gauge will work
but will take more juice and time to hit temp.
--
Tim Lynch
The Clay Man
1117 Tedford St SE
East Wenatchee, WA 98802-5254
509-884-8303
lynch.t@mail1.wsd.wednet.edu
----------
>From: Tommy Humphries
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Blue Diamind Quandry
>Date: Fri, Jan 7, 2000, 2:37 PM
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello and Happy New Year to all,
>
> I have a question about Blue Diamond kilns. We have been using ( or trying
> to) a large oval Blue Diamond kiln for ^6 firings. This Kiln has been
> steadily becoming slower and slower reaching cone. The last firing it took
> over 24 hours and still slightly underfired. It doesn't matter if the kiln
> is loaded heavy or light. A company rep. said that the kiln should fire in
> 12-14 hours, and that seemed to be the case with the first few firings.
>
> We have moved the kiln as close to the transformer as possible (6') , this
> seemed to help for a while, but didn't last. The kiln is only 8 mo. old and
> has been fired appx. once a week, so elements should not be a problem.
>
> We are at the end of our patience with this kiln, The company has been
> little or no help, the last call met with the response "we've done all we
> can" .
>
> Have any of you had any experience with this kiln co. or had any symptoms
> similar to this?
>
John Rodgers on sat 8 jan 00
Tommy,
I bought a used Blue Diamond Kiln about 4 years ago. It was a big one with
three rings stacked one on top of the other. At the time I bought it it was
already 18 years old. There were broken elements so I simply replaced all the
elements in it. I fired mostly porcelain in that kiln, so everything went to
Cone 6, it worked great. The only cable length for power that I had to deal
with was the length of the cord, that was, of course, permanently attached to
the kiln and plugged into a 55 amp breaker.
One winter I moved, and had to set up the kiln differently. The distance from
the kiln to the female kiln receptacle on on an outside wall was about 16
feet. My attached kiln cable was rated as a # 6 cable. I had a piece of cable
off a construction job that was a number 8 wire. I made up a type of extension
cord, with 220 plug on one end and 220V receptacle on the other. Being winter
this worked OK. As spring rolled around my firing time seemed to increase. Then
one hot day the circuit breaker popped and shut off the kiln. I reset and it
did it again. I felt of the #8 cable. It was warm. So, I trotted to the local
electrical store, bought a 16 ft piece of # 4 all weather cable, installed the
hardware on it and turned on the kiln. No more problem. The #4 cable did the
trick. It was a very large cable whose leads were multistrands of fine copper
wire inside. This dropped the resistance so significantly that the cables never
felt warm again, nor did the breaker pop.
In time the kiln fired slower and slower. It could be only one thing. Elements.
Even though the elements were new , relatively speaking, there were not a lot
of firings, and it was definite they were not doing their job.
Now my elements were new(fairly) Blue Diamond elements, and I have gotten
better performance out of Duncan kilns and elements.. Like replace Duncan
elements once every 5 years, and they were fired almost every day to cone 6.
So, if the kiln is not popping the breaker, the power cable is not really warm,
the switches are in good shape, and the kiln is still firing slow, it has got
to be the elements.
Try Euclids for elements. The ones I have seen them produce are a little heaver
material than others. Seem to hold up better.
Good luck on sorting this out.
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
Tommy Humphries wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello and Happy New Year to all,
>
> I have a question about Blue Diamond kilns. We have been using ( or trying
> to) a large oval Blue Diamond kiln for ^6 firings. This Kiln has been
> steadily becoming slower and slower reaching cone. The last firing it took
> over 24 hours and still slightly underfired. It doesn't matter if the kiln
> is loaded heavy or light. A company rep. said that the kiln should fire in
> 12-14 hours, and that seemed to be the case with the first few firings.
>
> We have moved the kiln as close to the transformer as possible (6') , this
> seemed to help for a while, but didn't last. The kiln is only 8 mo. old and
> has been fired appx. once a week, so elements should not be a problem.
>
> We are at the end of our patience with this kiln, The company has been
> little or no help, the last call met with the response "we've done all we
> can" .
>
> Have any of you had any experience with this kiln co. or had any symptoms
> similar to this?
GSM_ENT on sat 8 jan 00
Hi Tommy!
Happy New Year!!!!
Sometimes the electrical connections inside the control box, or at the
receptacle, or even at the fuse box can create problems. Everytime there is
a loose connection there is a lot of resistance to the flow of the
electricity diminishing the kiln heating elements ability to raise the
temperature inside the kiln. Check all connections to be sure they are all
tigth.
Kiln heating is affected by: voltage-if too low not enough heat, high
resistance due to loose connections, resistance due to the use of too small
wire gauge in the installation for the receptacle, wrong type elements (208
Volts type in lieu of 240 volts), worn out elements, defective switch, loose
wire(s), or the "buggy man".
Check all the above and see if everything is correct. Use a good multimeter
and check the elements resistance (ohms) against the manufacturer's
specifications, the receptacle voltage and that the heating elements are in
fact getting voltage at each required switch setting.
Manuel R A "Tony" Diaz Rodriguez
MAJ., US Army (Ret)
Master Kiln Repair Technician
----- Original Message -----
From: Tommy Humphries
To:
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 2:37 PM
Subject: Blue Diamind Quandry
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello and Happy New Year to all,
>
> I have a question about Blue Diamond kilns. We have been using ( or trying
> to) a large oval Blue Diamond kiln for ^6 firings. This Kiln has been
> steadily becoming slower and slower reaching cone. The last firing it took
> over 24 hours and still slightly underfired. It doesn't matter if the kiln
> is loaded heavy or light. A company rep. said that the kiln should fire
in
> 12-14 hours, and that seemed to be the case with the first few firings.
>
> We have moved the kiln as close to the transformer as possible (6') , this
> seemed to help for a while, but didn't last. The kiln is only 8 mo. old
and
> has been fired appx. once a week, so elements should not be a problem.
>
> We are at the end of our patience with this kiln, The company has been
> little or no help, the last call met with the response "we've done all we
> can" .
>
> Have any of you had any experience with this kiln co. or had any symptoms
> similar to this?
Jonathan Kaplan on sun 9 jan 00
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Tommy,
>
>I've had the same trouble with a Paragon kiln. I was told to split the
>middle four elements (which are all attached to a single relay) into two
>relays, and upgrade the circuit from 60 to 70 amps. I haven't done this yet.
>It's kind of scary, as I'm not comfortable with electrical work and it's
>hard as **** to find a competent electrician around here who is willing to
>work on such a small job.
>
>Paragon was completely unwilling to work with me, too, so I understand how
>frustrated you are. I'll add Blue Diamond to the list of kiln companies I
>don't buy from--that's for sure.
>
>Cindy Strnad
>Earthen Vessels Pottery
>Custer, SD
I was the one who suggested to Cindy that she split the center four
elements into 2 groups, each with its own relay controlling 2 elements. We
have increased the breakers to 80 Amps and have Euclid's wind us heavy duty
higher rated elements.
The internal wiring of an additional relay is not that difficult. Its a
matter of finding out where to physically attatch the relay. We we moved
all the relays from their overcrowded factory installed area to the bottom
of the case and there is then lots of room for the additional one. Then its
a matter of adding the relay in line with the rest on its own 12 volt
circuit from the transformer into the board and then out to the new relay.
You also need to add 2 additional 120V lines from the main terminal block
so that the new relay can move this power to the elements. At the sam time,
we also replaced alot of other wiring and added a infinite switch on the
top element so that we can better tune our Paragons to fire more evenly.
Works.
My feeling is that these kilns are underpowered and underinsulated. With
the increase in power and larger elements, we are firing in half the time,
have less element ware and tear, and lower electric bill. But then again,
we are are a small factory and our needs are different than those having
kilns in a home situtation where this kind of power draw might be a
problem. But IMHO, by doing this upgrade, you will definitely notice the
diffrence.
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
Ceramic Design Group
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs CO 80477
voice and fax 970 879-9139
jonathan@csn,net
http://www.sni.net/ceramicdesigin
CNW on sun 9 jan 00
I think that if you check the elements for proper voltage etc. and don't
find the problem you might want to call your electric company. I was told
when we were building the house that we should tell the guys coming to put
the service in that we were going to be operating a kiln. Not our
electrician but the people from the electric company. They said that if the
'head' wasn't big enough that it would gradually give less and less power.
(by 'head' I took it to be where it comes off the pole). So you might want
to check that out the electric company service department was very nice
about explaining things.
Celia in NC
cwike@conninc.com
CNW on sun 9 jan 00
My other thought is what cone is the kiln rated for? If it is close to cone
6 it may use the elements faster and it would be best to purchase some
higher grade 'after-market' elements.
Celia in NC
cwike@conninc.com
Ray Aldridge on sun 9 jan 00
At 02:25 PM 1/8/00 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>You say it shouldn't be the elements but that is what it sounds like.
It sounds that way to me too. Call the manufacturer and ask them for the
resistances of the elements. You can then check them to see if the
resistances have changed significantly.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
David Woodin on tue 11 jan 00
Is the voltage 240 or 208? What voltage is stamped on the nameplate? If you
are located in an industrial neighborhood or a school it is probably 208 VAC.
David
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