Carolyn Nygren Curran on sat 8 jan 00
Recently I saw some flat cookie cutter type ornaments made of porcelain
which had been glazed on both sides and then decorated by a china painter.
(They were quite handsome---abstract decoration in subtle tones, sort of
crystalline in feeling, quite different from the pretty little china
painted fruit plates given to me by Great Aunt Grace who had decorated them
at the turn of the 20th century.) The decorator had purchased the
ornaments already glazed and knew nothing about the process used. The
glaze looked like a high fire, and all I could think of was a series of
ornaments in a kiln threaded through the holes and suspended from a bead
setter type arrangement. Does anyone know anything about this process? If
there is a heavy duty Kanthal type element rod which could be used for a
cone 10 firing in this way, I'm ignorant of its existence. The ornaments
were quite thin and delicate, showed no warpage and had a very finished
appearance due to the glazing on both sides and on the edges. It would be
rather nice to have a method by which you could hang small ornaments and
jewelry on a kiln shelf...it would save space, allow glazing and/or
decorating on both sides and do away with sponging the underside of each
piece after glazing. And if there is a rigid wire which will go to high
temps without bending, there might be other applications for potters as
well. What about you china painters lurking in the shadows and you
production ornament makers? Any answers for me? TIA. Carolyn
Carol Jackaway on sat 8 jan 00
I have used the rod bead holders to fire my windchime fish. This is purchase
from any good clay supplilier. There are two post that hold the ends of the
rods, just thread the rod through the open whole and place on either side of
the post. The smaller the peices the more you can get on. With some
experimenting I bet you could create a bigger one using kiln post and heavier
rods (remember heavier rods will make bigger holes)
Good luck
carol Jackaway
Tommy Humphries on sun 9 jan 00
If you have access to any burned out thermocouples from pyrometers, they
make great heavy duty hangers for beads etc.
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: Carolyn Nygren Curran
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 1:18 PM
Subject: how can you fire porcelain ornaments glazed on both sides?
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Recently I saw some flat cookie cutter type ornaments made of porcelain
> which had been glazed on both sides and then decorated by a china painter.
> (They were quite handsome---abstract decoration in subtle tones, sort of
> crystalline in feeling, quite different from the pretty little china
> painted fruit plates given to me by Great Aunt Grace who had decorated
them
> at the turn of the 20th century.) The decorator had purchased the
> ornaments already glazed and knew nothing about the process used. The
> glaze looked like a high fire, and all I could think of was a series of
> ornaments in a kiln threaded through the holes and suspended from a bead
> setter type arrangement. Does anyone know anything about this process?
If
> there is a heavy duty Kanthal type element rod which could be used for a
> cone 10 firing in this way, I'm ignorant of its existence. The ornaments
> were quite thin and delicate, showed no warpage and had a very finished
> appearance due to the glazing on both sides and on the edges. It would be
> rather nice to have a method by which you could hang small ornaments and
> jewelry on a kiln shelf...it would save space, allow glazing and/or
> decorating on both sides and do away with sponging the underside of each
> piece after glazing. And if there is a rigid wire which will go to high
> temps without bending, there might be other applications for potters as
> well. What about you china painters lurking in the shadows and you
> production ornament makers? Any answers for me? TIA. Carolyn
>
GSM_ENT on sun 9 jan 00
Hi Carolyn!
Although the glaze may have looked high fire it could well be low fire.
There is no logic to fire the ornaments to such a high temperature glaze.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: Carolyn Nygren Curran
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 11:18 AM
Subject: how can you fire porcelain ornaments glazed on both sides?
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Recently I saw some flat cookie cutter type ornaments made of porcelain
> which had been glazed on both sides and then decorated by a china painter.
> (They were quite handsome---abstract decoration in subtle tones, sort of
> crystalline in feeling, quite different from the pretty little china
> painted fruit plates given to me by Great Aunt Grace who had decorated
them
> at the turn of the 20th century.) The decorator had purchased the
> ornaments already glazed and knew nothing about the process used. The
> glaze looked like a high fire, and all I could think of was a series of
> ornaments in a kiln threaded through the holes and suspended from a bead
> setter type arrangement. Does anyone know anything about this process?
If
> there is a heavy duty Kanthal type element rod which could be used for a
> cone 10 firing in this way, I'm ignorant of its existence. The ornaments
> were quite thin and delicate, showed no warpage and had a very finished
> appearance due to the glazing on both sides and on the edges. It would be
> rather nice to have a method by which you could hang small ornaments and
> jewelry on a kiln shelf...it would save space, allow glazing and/or
> decorating on both sides and do away with sponging the underside of each
> piece after glazing. And if there is a rigid wire which will go to high
> temps without bending, there might be other applications for potters as
> well. What about you china painters lurking in the shadows and you
> production ornament makers? Any answers for me? TIA. Carolyn
Carolyn Nygren Curran on tue 11 jan 00
Tony: Thanks for input on porcelain ornament. I still think it was high
fired - it just has that look about it, and when struck with a spoon, it
goes "ping", not "clunk". The piece may have been bisqued at high fire and
then glazed at a low temp, but the base glaze still has that high fire
look.
I think it IS logical to high fire ornaments...maybe not cone 10, but
well into med. to high fire. The full beauty of porcelain comes out when
the clay is fired to maturity or near maturity, I think, and there is no
substitute. (Discussion on that, clayarters?) It's a gut reaction on my
part, and when I've made small ornaments or porcelain bells, I have always
preferred the high fire glazes - even though I may risk warping with thinly
thrown bells then they go to maturity. Of course, I do not have any big
production in these items.
Nobody answering this thread so far has answered my query about the
existence of fireable rods which might be used at high fire temp. That's
the thing which intrigues me. I know that low fire folks are able to use
stilts in order to glaze on both sides, but this ornament shows no signs of
a stilt. If it was low fired, then any old bead setter could do the trick.
But if it was high fire glazed, how was it done? You may be right about
the ornament being low fired, but I'm still curious if the high fire is
possible. (Too many other things on my plate right now to really delve
into the question, but Clayart is often helpful when there is a weirdo
question and one's library of pottery books doesn't have an answer.)
Since high fire kanthal rods are made for some kilns, then is it possible
to manufacture thin rods which will not slump in the fire when used in a
bead setter manner? Still curious, Carolyn
Nikom Chimnok on wed 12 jan 00
Hello Carolyn,
Many years ago I was interested in beads, and never found any wire
which would span a very long distance while maintaining it's integrity when
it got hot. So, knowing nothing at all about it, I made some beams about 10
inches long and 3/4 inch square out of the following mix:
25 % alumina
25% local red clay (which matures about cone 12)
25% rice husk ash
25% cone 7 stoneware clay
At intervals I made holes in the beams to hold 1 millimeter Kanthal
wire, and fired them once to cone 10. I then threaded the wire through the
beams, with a twist at the top, and dangled the pieces to be fired on hooks
below. At the ends of the beams were holes through which I threaded 2 mm
Kanthal wire, with beads as spacers so that the beams could be any distance
apart that I chose. The top beams were an inch longer than the ones below.
I then stood up a pair of kilnshelves to hold the ends of the top beams,
with the rest of them fitting between the shelves. I used some bricks to
make the kilnshelves stay where I wanted them. I would load the assemblies
outside the kiln and lift whole arrays into the kiln at once. This part was
not without its frustrations, but it worked.
Through sheer luck, the beams were good refractories. Never bent or
broke (except for ones I dropped), and I fired them dozens of times before
moving onto other things. A proviso, I was only firing them to cone 6, not
10, and I don't imagine you could get hold of either rice husk ash or our
local high temp red clay, but with fireclay and silica and grog I suppose
you could arrive at about the same thing.
So there you have it--one possible solution to your problem. Another
thing I considered, but never tried, was to drill holes in corderite
kilnshelves (an easy thing to do with a hammerdrill and masonry bit), and
run wires through the holes. You'd have to make some kind of a rack for
holding each shelf up in the air while you attached the pieces to the bottom
side, but then you could just load the kiln with posts as usual.
Happy experimenting.
Nikom in Thailand, now firing big things by the containerload, but somewhat
nostalgic for the days of playing with little things like you are.
***********************************************************************
At 10:54 11/1/00 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
(Snip)...
> Nobody answering this thread so far has answered my query about the
>existence of fireable rods which might be used at high fire temp. That's
>the thing which intrigues me. I know that low fire folks are able to use
>stilts in order to glaze on both sides, but this ornament shows no signs of
>a stilt. If it was low fired, then any old bead setter could do the trick.
> But if it was high fire glazed, how was it done? You may be right about
>the ornament being low fired, but I'm still curious if the high fire is
>possible. (Too many other things on my plate right now to really delve
>into the question, but Clayart is often helpful when there is a weirdo
>question and one's library of pottery books doesn't have an answer.)
>Since high fire kanthal rods are made for some kilns, then is it possible
>to manufacture thin rods which will not slump in the fire when used in a
>bead setter manner? Still curious, Carolyn
Nanci Bishof on wed 12 jan 00
Carolyn,
Its possible that its a ^5-6 porcelain fired to maturity & a bead rod used.
Axner has one rated to 2250F.
nanci
C. Rasko on thu 13 jan 00
Original message
fired -- it just has that look about it, and when struck with a spoon, it
goes "ping," not "clunk". The piece may have been bisqued at high fire and
then glazed at a low temp, but the base glaze still has that high fire
look.
I think it IS logical to high fire ornaments...maybe not cone 10, but
well into med. to high fire. The full beauty of porcelain comes out when
the clay is fired to maturity or near maturity, I think, and there is no
substitute. (Discussion on that, clayarters?) It's a gut reaction on my
part, and when I've made small ornaments or porcelain bells, I have always
preferred the high fire glazes -- even though I may risk warping with thinly
thrown bells then they go to maturity. Of course, I do not have any big
production in these items.
Nobody answering this thread so far has answered my query about the
existence of fireable rods which might be used at high fire temp. That's
the thing which intrigues me. I know that low fire folks are able to use
stilts in order to glaze on both sides, but this ornament shows no signs of
a stilt. If it was low fired, then any old bead setter could do the trick.
But if it was high fire glazed, how was it done? You may be right about
the ornament being low fired, but I'm still curious if the high fire is
possible. (Too many other things on my plate right now to really delve
into the question, but Clayart is often helpful when there is a weirdo
question and one's library of pottery books doesn't have an answer.)
Since high fire kanthal rods are made for some kilns, then is it possible
to manufacture thin rods which will not slump in the fire when used in a
bead setter manner? Still curious, Carolyn>
Twenty years ago, this was a way to omit stilt marks taught by Hanovia
Lusters and Duncan Ceramics for low fired ware. I do not know if this will
work for high fire ware. In any case some testing should be done with the
glaze that you choose to use as glazes will soften differently from glaze to
glaze at different temperatures. You should also know your kiln very well.
Know the hot spots in your kiln and do not place your pieces in those hot
spots.
1. File off any oxidation on your stilts with a grinding stone or file. Try
to file the wire to a very sharp point keeping the wires level with one
another. The sharper the point, the smaller the stilt mark that will be left
after firing.
2. Glaze your bisque pieces on both sides and place them in your kiln on the
cleanly filed stilts. Fire to glaze temperature.
3. When kiln is cool, unload and grind off any stilt marks from the ware and
again file off any oxidation left on the stilt wires keeping the wires very
pointed and sharp.
Any oxidation left on the wires will leave black spots on your ware. Do not
grind the glaze all the way to the bisque. You need only remove the sharp
point.
4. Reload your ware on the clean stilts avoiding kiln hot spots, and refire
the ware to cone 020-017. You will have to test these temperatures a few
times with your glaze to figure out the correct temperature. When you have
the correct temperature, the stilts will not leave a mark on the back of the
ware and the old stilt marks will be smoothed over. ( Your glaze may even
need a higher or lower temperature than recommended, but somewhere in the
020-017 range is where most glazes fall.)
Remember, the trick is keeping the stilts completely free of oxidation and
very sharply pointed.
Often, trying to place glazed ware on stilts is very hard, the ware wants to
slide off. Try spraying the back with a matte sealer, aqua net hair spray,
or gluing just a dab with Elmer's glue to give the stilt points something to
grab. These usually burn out during firing.
Once you have the temperature correct, you can just fire the ware on top of
the stilts upside down, that is the stilt points pointed down on top of the
shelf, the ware on top of the bottom of the stilt. Again, you need to test
this before doing a whole load this way. Some glazes just always soften too
much to ever work this way, while others always work. Again, avoid the hot
spots. Some people using this technique just place the ware on the kiln
shelf, but every kiln I have ever used has had hot spots and power surges
from time to time. For me, I'd rather ruin a stilt than a whole shelf if
something went wrong.
Joseph Carames on tue 15 feb 00
what i have done in to construct a box to support ceramic hi fire rods
which hold the pieces. haven't gone to c10 but they work to c5.
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