Judy Musicant on sat 8 jan 00
Hi, electric kiln venters,
I am about to purchase a new 7cubic ft. electric kiln which I am planning to
vent using the Bailey vent system. My preferred location for the kiln is an
area of the basement about 24 ft. from the outside wall. The helpful Bailey
kiln vent person advised that no more than 8 ft. from the outside wall was
the optimal limit. He also said, however, that he is aware of people who
successfully vent from as far as 30 ft. using stovepipe ducting, as opposed
to the flexible ducting, and drilling an additional hole in the kiln. I
could place the kiln in the the garage where it would be less than 8 ft.
from the outside wall, but I sure would like to put it inside. Any
experiences or thoughts on this issue out there in clayart land? Also, do
you think there's a problem if the duct comes out the wall fairly close to
a window? Bailey said no, as the gases and fumes are pretty well dispursed
immediately outside (or something like that). Of course, the window is
closed most of the time, and could certainly be closed during firings.
Thanks much.
Judy Musicant
Mountainview Pottery
Jim Cullen on sun 9 jan 00
Judy, the choice of inside/outside is certainly yours. If you choose to run
the 24ft. you might consider a second, smaller blower to move the exhaust
from the vent motor (about 8 ft. from the kiln) to the outside vent where the
second motor would be placed.
The flex hose is so much easier to work with and will handle the exhaust air
temperature. I put a thermometer on my flex hose, which runs only 5 ft from
the kiln to the wall, and the temp was 108 degrees F. at Cone 6 inside kiln
temp.
This ambient hose temperature will help to heat your studio as a residual
benefit.
KEEP CENTERED (and warm)
Cullen
Naperville, Illinois
Martin A. Arkowitz on sun 9 jan 00
------------------
--- You wrote:
Also, do
you think there's a problem if the duct comes out the wall fairly close to
a window? Bailey said no, as the gases and fumes are pretty well dispursed
immediately outside (or something like that). Of course, the window is
closed most of the time, and could certainly be closed during firings.
Thanks much.
--- end of quote ---
my bailey vent is located close to an outside wall in the basement of my =
house.
the vent has been cut through the sill of the house and exhausts directly =
under
my kitchen window AND my kitchen window has been changing over the years. =
it is
no longer clear glass. it always looks cloudy and dirty and nothing that i =
do
can clean it. i never open that window. also when i am firing-i fire =
porcelain
only-anyone coming in through my kitchen door can smell the kiln air. the =
cat
likes to sit by the vent as it keeps her warm in the winter and she doesn't =
seem
to be affected by the fumes....
anyway that is my input/output on kiln venting.
eleanor arkowitz
=3Cmarty1=40dartmouth.edu
joan hardin on mon 8 jan 01
Dear Potters,
I'm looking for information about venting a small (2.63 cu ft), old Skutt=
electric kiln in an area with no window access and no easy access to a dr=
ier
vent. The kiln is located in my studio, which is in my loft living space.=
I
use the kiln for 05 glaze firing only, firing 60-80 hand painted tiles at=
a
time in it, so there are lots of fumes during glaze firings.
The only kiln vent I know about not requiring access to the outside is th=
e
Bluebird one using a charcoal filter. Does anyone have experience with th=
is
vent or have any other ideas?
Many thanks.
Joan Hardin
joan@hardintiles.com or jrhardin@usa.net
____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D=
1
Sherry Spickes on tue 9 jan 01
Joan - I have my kilns in my basement, and my husband (bless his heart) installed a
dryer vent for my venting system. It works great. You might just have to bite the
bullet and put in a vent.
Sherry
joan hardin wrote:
> Dear Potters,
> I'm looking for information about venting a small (2.63 cu ft), old Skutt
> electric kiln in an area with no window access and no easy access to a drier
> vent. The kiln is located in my studio, which is in my loft living space. I
> use the kiln for 05 glaze firing only, firing 60-80 hand painted tiles at a
> time in it, so there are lots of fumes during glaze firings.
> The only kiln vent I know about not requiring access to the outside is the
> Bluebird one using a charcoal filter. Does anyone have experience with this
> vent or have any other ideas?
> Many thanks.
> Joan Hardin
> joan@hardintiles.com or jrhardin@usa.net
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Jeannean Hibbitts on mon 9 apr 07
I'm wanting to buy my own kiln (after taking classes at the local =
college off and on for two years) and have room for it in my basement. I =
understand that I can vent the kiln so that the fumes are pulled out of =
the basement, but my first choice for location would vent the kiln out =
the wall of the basement just a couple feet from my driveway where my =
husband parks his car. I'm concerned that some of the fumes might be =
corrosive and, over time, damage my husband's car (a 1998 Cadillac that =
he maintains meticulously).=20
Has anyone experienced this? I recall reading in Uncle Vince's (Pitelka) =
book that fumes can be corrosive but he doesn't discuss how much =
clearance to give the vent exit. (I suppose the easy answer is, depends =
on how much air movement there is.)
I'm also guessing that, even with the vent, I probably don't want to =
spend a lot of time in the basement while the kiln is working. Or can I =
be assured that the vent will do an adequate job?=20
Do I need to inform my insurance agent that I'm installing a kiln in my =
basement? Or are kiln fires pretty rare? (I don't recall hearing any =
such horror stories.)
Please be patient with my naivete - I'm learning, and while I know that =
experience is a wonderful teacher, I can also learn from other people's =
experience. Which is why Clayart is such a good thing!
Thanks in advance,
Jeannean
in rainy/sunny (depends on which 5-minute period you're looking at) =
Astoria, Oregon, where I've signed up for the atmospheric firing class =
this term and we loaded the anagama kiln on Saturday mostly with bowls =
for a soup fundraiser for the Tillamook County women's resource center =
but I got a couple dozen tiny pots scattered among them which I'll take =
with me to China next month - assuming they all turn out okay. It's my =
first anagama firing and I'm so jazzed!
Fredrick Paget on tue 10 apr 07
>I'm wanting to buy my own kiln (after taking classes at the local
>college off and on for two years) and have room for it in my basement. I
>understand that I can vent the kiln so that the fumes are pulled out of
>the basement, but my first choice for location would vent the kiln out
>the wall of the basement just a couple feet from my driveway where my
>husband parks his car. I'm concerned that some of the fumes might be
>corrosive and, over time, damage my husband's car (a 1998 Cadillac that
>he maintains meticulously).
>Jeannean
I have a vent on my kiln - a Bailey which is a squirrel cage blower
taking from a vent hole low on the side of the kiln and venting
through the wall. There is still plenty of fume in the kiln room and
I never stay in there when I am firing.
I have an attic vent fan on a thermostat that takes the hot air out
of the room and it may be causing some of the fumes in the room by
sucking back through the wall vent. I need this setup because the
kiln shed is very small and can get very hot if not ventilated.
There is a 16 x 25 hole in the wall directly behind the kiln with an
air filter over it to supply make up air.
Also the attic vent fan has rusted pretty badly on the fan blades. I
would not advise to vent the kiln onto your husbands car. You can run
a stove pipe off a ways to avoid that.
Fred Paget
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
Michael Wendt on tue 10 apr 07
Jeannean,
Be sure to use a vent that has the fan at the
end of the suction line.
That way, if the line develops a leak,
it sucks air in rather than spewing fumes
out into the room.
If the fumes are mixed with plenty of air
they will not be hot enough to cause any
damage. They will be only slightly warm.
As to the insurance:
ALWAYS tell your insurance company
when you do something like this. They
will not pay a claim if it should come to light
that you hid this and it caused a fire.
Properly installed and monitored, an electric
kiln is as safe as any other electrical
appliance. Just make sure you install it
correctly and monitor it during use.
I would never leave it unattended while
firing in the basement since a malfunction
could be detected and corrected if you
watch it but could burn the house down
if you leave it to go shopping, out to a
movie or dinner... etc.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
USA
208-746-3724
http://www.wendtpottery.com
wendtpot@lewiston.com
Jeannean wrote:
I'm wanting to buy my own kiln (after taking classes at
the local college off and on for two years) and have
room for it in my basement. I understand that I can
vent the kiln so that the fumes are pulled out of the
basement, but my first choice for location would vent
the kiln out the wall of the basement just a couple
feet from my driveway where my husband parks his car.
I'm concerned that some of the fumes might be corrosive
and, over time, damage my husband's car (a 1998
Cadillac that he maintains meticulously).
Has anyone experienced this? I recall reading in Uncle
Vince's (Pitelka) book that fumes can be corrosive but
he doesn't discuss how much clearance to give the vent
exit. (I suppose the easy answer is, depends on how
much air movement there is.)
I'm also guessing that, even with the vent, I probably
don't want to spend a lot of time in the basement while
the kiln is working. Or can I be assured that the vent
will do an adequate job?
Do I need to inform my insurance agent that I'm
installing a kiln in my basement? Or are kiln fires
pretty rare? (I don't recall hearing any such horror
stories.)
Please be patient with my naivete - I'm learning, and
while I know that experience is a wonderful teacher, I
can also learn from other people's experience. Which is
why Clayart is such a good thing!
Thanks in advance,
Jeannean
Mark Tigges on tue 10 apr 07
On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 11:12:36AM -0700, Jeannean Hibbitts wrote:
> but my first choice for location
> would vent the kiln out the wall of the basement just a couple feet
> from my driveway where my husband parks his car. I'm concerned that
> some of the fumes might be corrosive and, over time, damage my
> husband's car
I'm not sure. What I can tell you is my experience. I have a 6cf
kiln, before I vented it was very stinky in the garage. This stink
persisted for hours unless I opened the garage door. Now that it's
vented ... I hardly smell anything. Nothing in the garage, and
outside, very rarely. I have to be in the very near vicinity of the
vent at just the right time. in order to smell it.
Personally I wouldn't worry about the car.
> I'm also guessing that, even with the vent, I probably don't want to
> spend a lot of time in the basement while the kiln is working. Or
> can I be assured that the vent will do an adequate job?
As I said above, I don't smell anything in the garage at all.
But, I do try to open the garage door while I'm working if it's not
too cold out - just in case.
Mark.
--
http://www.m2crafts.ca
m2crafts [at] gmail
Arnold Howard on tue 10 apr 07
From: "Jeannean Hibbitts"
my first choice for location would vent the kiln out the
wall of the basement just a couple feet from my driveway
where my husband parks his car.
I'm also guessing that, even with the vent, I probably don't
want to spend a lot of time in the basement while the kiln
is working. Or can I be assured that the vent will do an
adequate job?
Do I need to inform my insurance agent that I'm installing a
kiln in my basement? Or are kiln fires pretty rare? (I don't
recall hearing any such horror stories.)
-----------------
Jeannean, this may seem like overkill, because the fumes are
released very slowly to the outside and have time to
dissipate. Nevertheless, I would have your husband park his
car in the street or down the driveway while you fire the
kiln.
It should be okay to stay in the kiln room during firing if
the vent is installed properly and you do not smell the
fumes.
You should inform your insurance agent of the kiln
installation. It may not be a problem, though, if your kiln
is listed to UL standard 499. If the agent needs more
information, supply him with a list of kiln installation
safety guidelines that you will follow, and tell him that
you will disconnect the power when the kiln is not in use.
I have never heard of a fire caused by a properly installed
kiln--even one that over-fired.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Carole Fox on thu 12 apr 07
On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:12:36 -0700, Jeannean Hibbitts
wrote:
>... I understand that I can vent the kiln so that the fumes are pulled
out of the basement, but my first choice for location would vent the kiln
out the wall of the basement just a couple feet from my driveway where my
husband parks his car....
I have an electric kiln in my basement, using a Bailey vent system. It
vents through a standard dryer-type vent in the basement wall, using rigid
metal tubing. The vent opening is directly behind some shrubs, which
depending on when I have last pruned, may be a bit closer than 1 foot to
the opening. There has never been any damage to the foliage from the
fumes. Nor has there been any damage to the paint on the cedar siding
where the vent cover is mounted. BTW, if I put my hand next to the vent
while the kiln is firing, the exhaust air is just warm, not even as hot as
what comes from the hot air registers in the house when the furnace is
running.
>....I'm also guessing that, even with the vent, I probably don't want to
spend a lot of time in the basement while the kiln is working. Or can I be
assured that the vent will do an adequate job?...
I keep a window open to make up for the air extracted while the vent
system is running. I frequently continue to work in my studio while the
kiln is running, and have had no major problems. If I am not going to
stay in the basement, I set a timer for checkpoints to go back downstairs
and check on the firing.
Carole Fox
Dayton, OH
Andrew M Casto on thu 12 apr 07
I did not read the original message in this thread, but I saw a mention of
venting an electric kiln near a place where a car is parked.
If it were me, I would not vent a kiln in a way that puts the vapor from
the kiln moving upwards toward the vehicle. Unless of coarse it is a junker
that you don't care about. I have a home made kiln vent of sorts, and I
tried aluminum ducting pieces in the past and it corrodes big time from the
fumes from the kiln. I also spend a lot of time with cars and working with
refinish issues on cars in my day job. Many vehicles have aluminum hoods,
and other parts. BMW is now making aluminum frames (wow can you imagine if
your kiln fumes ate through the frame of your car???)... Regardless, I
don't know what kind of car we are talking about here, but I wouldn't risk
it. I don't know what the fumes would do to the paint on the car, but auto
body paint is VERY expensive, and should you be in a situation where that
car has to be painted, expect to spend about $600 per panel of the car, or
around $4k for a full professional job (there is Earl Scheib/Maaco and
other cheapo paint places - not good for a nice car though). Not worth the
risk in my mind. I would vent the kiln elsewhere, or park the car
elsewhere. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Andy
(currently at work at an autobody repair shop)
Cheryl Weickert6 on thu 12 apr 07
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:35:25 -0500, Arnold Howard
wrote:
>
>It should be okay to stay in the kiln room during firing if
>the vent is installed properly and you do not smell the
>fumes.
Be safe and use a carbon monoxide detector too. Carbon monoxide has no
smell.
Pinky, in MN
Smith, Judy on thu 12 apr 07
I am thinking about putting a kiln in my garage. Unlike most of my
neighbors, I actually park my cars in the garage. If I vented the kiln
outside, would you still need to move the cars outside when you fired
the kiln?
Judy Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Andrew M
Casto
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:00 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Kiln venting question
I did not read the original message in this thread, but I saw a mention
of
venting an electric kiln near a place where a car is parked.
If it were me, I would not vent a kiln in a way that puts the vapor from
the kiln moving upwards toward the vehicle. Unless of coarse it is a
junker
that you don't care about. I have a home made kiln vent of sorts, and I
tried aluminum ducting pieces in the past and it corrodes big time from
the
fumes from the kiln. I also spend a lot of time with cars and working
with
refinish issues on cars in my day job. Many vehicles have aluminum
hoods,
and other parts. BMW is now making aluminum frames (wow can you imagine
if
your kiln fumes ate through the frame of your car???)... Regardless, I
don't know what kind of car we are talking about here, but I wouldn't
risk
it. I don't know what the fumes would do to the paint on the car, but
auto
body paint is VERY expensive, and should you be in a situation where
that
car has to be painted, expect to spend about $600 per panel of the car,
or
around $4k for a full professional job (there is Earl Scheib/Maaco and
other cheapo paint places - not good for a nice car though). Not worth
the
risk in my mind. I would vent the kiln elsewhere, or park the car
elsewhere. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Andy
(currently at work at an autobody repair shop)
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Arnold Howard on thu 12 apr 07
From: "Smith, Judy"
If I vented the kiln
outside, would you still need to move the cars outside when
you fired
the kiln?
Yes, because all flammable materials should be removed from
the garage while you are firing the kiln. This includes
paint, boxes of newspapers, gasoline, and the lawn mower.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Darrell Walker on thu 12 apr 07
On Apr 12, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Arnold Howard wrote:
> Yes, because all flammable materials should be removed from
> the garage while you are firing the kiln. This includes
> paint, boxes of newspapers, gasoline, and the lawn mower.
Hi Arnold,
Is there some limit to this? I ask because I fire my kiln in my
garage, which is quite large (2 cars wide by 2.5 cars deep). Nothing
flammable is within 6 feet of the kiln (other than the walls), but it
would be impractical to empty everything that could burn from the
garage.
Darrell Walker
Vancouver, WA
Arnold Howard on thu 12 apr 07
From: "Darrell Walker"
I fire my kiln in my
> garage, which is quite large (2 cars wide by 2.5 cars
> deep). Nothing
> flammable is within 6 feet of the kiln (other than the
> walls), but it
> would be impractical to empty everything that could burn
> from the
> garage.
Darrell, maybe a fireman on the list could answer your
question better than I could. My knowledge of gasoline fires
is limited. I know that gasoline fumes can crawl along the
floor, but I don't know how far before they dissipate
harmlessly.
Another factor is room temperature, especially here in Texas
during the summer. Spontaneous combustion probably seems as
remote as science fiction to most of us, but I've witnessed
it.
When I was a teenager, I had a job making portable
buildings. We used wads of fiberglass insulation to wipe
wood stain along the outside trim. One day at lunch time, I
watched several wads of fiberglass burst into flames from
the sun. They were lying on the bare ground, so no harm was
done. But witnessing that made a lasting impression on me.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Ron Roy on fri 13 apr 07
I would also like to recommend that anyone firing a kiln in a house have a
working carbon monoxide detector runing in the room where the kiln is - and
in other areas as well - actually any encolsed area.
You will be surprised to learn there will be some around no matter what
kind of kiln you are firing.
All it takes is the wind blowing against a vent exit to change things sometimes.
RR
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Ron Roy on fri 13 apr 07
Again - it may not be the same with some types of clay - I have seen and
heard of window glass being etched - so that it is no longer clear - by
kiln fumes.
I'm just saying it's not always the same in each situation - the most
important parts to protect are lungs - especially those of children.
RR
>I have an electric kiln in my basement, using a Bailey vent system. It
>vents through a standard dryer-type vent in the basement wall, using rigid
>metal tubing. The vent opening is directly behind some shrubs, which
>depending on when I have last pruned, may be a bit closer than 1 foot to
>the opening. There has never been any damage to the foliage from the
>fumes. Nor has there been any damage to the paint on the cedar siding
>where the vent cover is mounted. BTW, if I put my hand next to the vent
>while the kiln is firing, the exhaust air is just warm, not even as hot as
>what comes from the hot air registers in the house when the furnace is
>running.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
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