isnorchd on wed 19 jan 00
------------------
1/19/2000
After a hiatus of 17 years I am starting to throw again on a new Shimpo =
wheel I
just purchased. Living in Thailand i have discovered the clay bodies =
available
commercially are quite different than those I used in the States. The =
problem i
am having now is that no matter how much water I use in centering, the clay =
does
not get slippery enough. There is so much drag that the wheel actually slows
down. After some time i succeed in centering and then, no matter how wet I =
make
my hands, the clay always almost instantly develops a dry spot which pulls =
the
clay off center and develops a wobble.
I read where Epsom Salts is recommended by some Clayarters for elasticity
problems. Does my description sound like an elasticity problem? I do not =
have
enough experience to diagnosis this. By the way, the clay i am using is =
supposed
to be a stoneware clay and I bought it a few years ago. It has been kept in =
a
plastic bin with a damp towel so it seems soft enough when i wedge it.
Thanks for your help
Don Beckerman
Isan Orchid Guest Lodge
At The Gateway to Indo China
Sheron Roberts on thu 20 jan 00
------------------
Don,
I learned to throw on twenty
year old Shimpos at the college
I attended. We turned these
wheels on =22wide-open=22 in order
to center, then slowed them down
to pull. The motors were almost
worn out.
When I finally was able to move into
my own studio and furnish it, I
purchased a new, larger Shimpo,
with more horsepower. When
I tried centering on this wheel at the
same speed as the old ones, I
had the same problem that you are
experiencing. I found that if I slowed
the wheel a little, not much, but a
little, the clay didn't dry out as fast.
I now use very little water to center.
I too, use stoneware clay.
Some one else might disagree, but
it worked for me.
Sheron in NC
Antoinette Badenhorst on thu 20 jan 00
Don,is this clay smooth when you wedge it,or does it
crack a little when you wedge?Maybe you should cut the
clay in slices and add a little water to it and wedge
again. Do you come down very hard onto the clay? You
might literally squash the water away. The secret is
not in the amount of water that you use,but the touch
that goes along with the water.Make sure that your
wheel speed and the movements of your hands correlate.
Antoinette.
--- isnorchd wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> ------------------
> 1/19/2000
>
> After a hiatus of 17 years I am starting to throw
> again on a new Shimpo wheel I
> just purchased. Living in Thailand i have discovered
> the clay bodies available
> commercially are quite different than those I used
> in the States. The problem i
> am having now is that no matter how much water I use
> in centering, the clay does
> not get slippery enough. There is so much drag that
> the wheel actually slows
> down. After some time i succeed in centering and
> then, no matter how wet I make
> my hands, the clay always almost instantly develops
> a dry spot which pulls the
> clay off center and develops a wobble.
>
> I read where Epsom Salts is recommended by some
> Clayarters for elasticity
> problems. Does my description sound like an
> elasticity problem? I do not have
> enough experience to diagnosis this. By the way, the
> clay i am using is supposed
> to be a stoneware clay and I bought it a few years
> ago. It has been kept in a
> plastic bin with a damp towel so it seems soft
> enough when i wedge it.
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> Don Beckerman
> Isan Orchid Guest Lodge
> At The Gateway to Indo China
>
=====
Antoinette Badenhorst
PO Box 552
Saltillo,Mississippi
38866
Telephone (601) 869-1651
timakia@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
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isnorchd on fri 25 feb 00
------------------
2/25/2000
Dear Fellow Clayarters,
While I haven't worked on a wheel since 1982 I have the distinct memory that=
it
was a smooth operation with the clay very plastic between my hands and my =
hands
moving easily up into the form i was making.
Well, I have purchased three different clays from dealers in Bangkok, =
Thailand -
where I have lived for twelve years and have the same problem with the three=
of
them. The clay refuses to stay plastic. As I attempt pulling it up it feels =
like
it is developing little dry spots and this throws the clay off center. I =
find it
impossible to work with this clay. No matter how much water I use the =
problem
persists. When i try to make pinch pots, the clay cracks like mad. It is =
very
strange as the clay can be very soft and yet be cracking like mad as i am
pinching it. This is making me regret my decision to take up clay again. Is
there anyone out there who can help me fix this problem?
Hopefully,
Don Beckerman
Isan Orchid Guest Lodge
Thabo, Nongkhai, Thiland
The Gateway to Indo China
isnorchd=40nk.ksc.co.th
Cindy Strnad on sat 26 feb 00
Don,
I suspect you need to either change clays, or, if this isn't possible, amend
the clay you're working with. I think it needs a higher percentage of
plastic clay. You might try adding some ball clay to it if you can't find a
prepared clay to suit your needs.
Cindy Strnad
earthenv@gwtc.net
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
Michael Banks on sat 26 feb 00
It is possible that something is deflocculating the clay, so try acidifying
it with vinegar, or other flocculants such as Epsom salts or calcium
chloride.
If this has no effect, it is likely that your clay is just too short (non
plastic) to use.
Michael Banks,
Nelson,
New Zealand
----- Original Message -----
Don Beckerman wrote:
While I haven't worked on a wheel since 1982 I have the distinct memory that
it
was a smooth operation with the clay very plastic between my hands and my
hands
moving easily up into the form i was making.
Well, I have purchased three different clays from dealers in Bangkok,
Thailand -
where I have lived for twelve years and have the same problem with the three
of
them. The clay refuses to stay plastic. As I attempt pulling it up it feels
like
it is developing little dry spots and this throws the clay off center. I
find it
impossible to work with this clay. No matter how much water I use the
problem
persists. When i try to make pinch pots, the clay cracks like mad. It is
very
strange as the clay can be very soft and yet be cracking like mad as i am
pinching it. This is making me regret my decision to take up clay again. Is
there anyone out there who can help me fix this problem?
Paul Taylor on sat 26 feb 00
Dear Don
This clay may contain a defloculant for casting .
Check with the makers . They may have inadvertently added a casting slip to
the mix . It will not be the first time this has happened.
You can check the clay your self by breaking it down to the consistency
of a glaze ( if it breaks down easily this is suspicious) and see if more
than sand particles settle within half an hour, and/or after/during a day
the mixture is settling out according to particle size - the stuff at the
top will be so fine that water would be difficult to pore off. As opposed
If the clay is flocculated you will still have the feeling the mixture is
still homogenous . This will also happen with clay that is poor.
To further check add some vinegar. If the mixture thickens radically
you either send the clay back or break it down and add your own vinegar to
counter act the sodium that is deflocuating the clay - a lot of work that.
Another test would be to add the vinegar to some clay broken down to a
thick slip. Then dry the clay out again evenly and see if their is an
improvement.
However the local clay may just be like that. You may find out that some
Eastern clays are left prepared for generations not to improve it's finer
points but to make the S**t use able at all.
Regards Paul T
----------
>From: isnorchd
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: throwing problem
>Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2000, 10:55 pm
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>------------------
>2/25/2000
>
>Dear Fellow Clayarters,
>
>While I haven't worked on a wheel since 1982 I have the distinct memory that it
>was a smooth operation with the clay very plastic between my hands and my hands
>moving easily up into the form i was making.
>
>Well, I have purchased three different clays from dealers in Bangkok, Thailand
>where I have lived for twelve years and have the same problem with the three of
>them. The clay refuses to stay plastic. As I attempt pulling it up it feels lik
>it is developing little dry spots and this throws the clay off center. I find i
>impossible to work with this clay. No matter how much water I use the problem
>persists. When i try to make pinch pots, the clay cracks like mad. It is very
>strange as the clay can be very soft and yet be cracking like mad as i am
>pinching it. This is making me regret my decision to take up clay again. Is
>there anyone out there who can help me fix this problem?
>
>Hopefully,
>
>Don Beckerman
>Isan Orchid Guest Lodge
>Thabo, Nongkhai, Thiland
>The Gateway to Indo China
>
>isnorchd@nk.ksc.co.th
Andrew Buck on sat 26 feb 00
Don,
Wedge the clay, then wedge it again, then wedge it some more. Throw with
slip instead of water. Use as little water as you can while working the
clay as it washes out the finer, more plastic, particles. Work the clay
fast and don't overwork it. That last bit is hard to do when relearning
but keep at it. The best advise I have ever heard on learning to throw on
the wheel is "practice, practice, practice and exercise patience". It
applies to relearning even more because you feel you should know how to do
it already. People all over the world work with clay bodies that we, in
the US, would call "short". It is just a matter of learning the skills
needed to work the materials at hand. Good luck.
Andy Buck
Raincreek Pottery
Port Orchard, Washington, USA
"I have never met a clay I didn't like, except the kind that sticks to the
bottom of my shoes after rain"
On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, isnorchd wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> 2/25/2000
>
> Dear Fellow Clayarters,
>
> While I haven't worked on a wheel since 1982 I have the distinct memory that i
> was a smooth operation with the clay very plastic between my hands and my hand
> moving easily up into the form i was making.
>
> Well, I have purchased three different clays from dealers in Bangkok, Thailand
> where I have lived for twelve years and have the same problem with the three o
> them. The clay refuses to stay plastic. As I attempt pulling it up it feels li
> it is developing little dry spots and this throws the clay off center. I find
> impossible to work with this clay. No matter how much water I use the problem
> persists. When i try to make pinch pots, the clay cracks like mad. It is very
> strange as the clay can be very soft and yet be cracking like mad as i am
> pinching it. This is making me regret my decision to take up clay again. Is
> there anyone out there who can help me fix this problem?
>
> Hopefully,
>
> Don Beckerman
> Isan Orchid Guest Lodge
> Thabo, Nongkhai, Thiland
> The Gateway to Indo China
>
> isnorchd@nk.ksc.co.th
>
Marian Morris on mon 28 feb 00
In my class this summer, someone brought in some raw clay dug from the upper
peninsula of Michigan. Same deal as you describe. It did that
"liquification" thing like cornstarch will where it is plastic as long as
you don't move it too fast. It was just unimproved indigenous clay. Sounds
to me like that is what you got!
Actually, we did work with it- just on its terms. We patted out thin slabs
and draped them. It worked great for this application!
On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:55:47 EST, Ceramic Arts Discussion List wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> 2/25/2000
>
> Dear Fellow Clayarters,
>
> While I haven't worked on a wheel since 1982 I have the distinct memory
that it
> was a smooth operation with the clay very plastic between my hands and my
hands
> moving easily up into the form i was making.
>
> Well, I have purchased three different clays from dealers in Bangkok,
Thailand -
> where I have lived for twelve years and have the same problem with the
three of
> them. The clay refuses to stay plastic. As I attempt pulling it up it
feels like
> it is developing little dry spots and this throws the clay off center. I
find it
> impossible to work with this clay. No matter how much water I use the
problem
> persists. When i try to make pinch pots, the clay cracks like mad. It is
very
> strange as the clay can be very soft and yet be cracking like mad as i am
> pinching it. This is making me regret my decision to take up clay again.
Is
> there anyone out there who can help me fix this problem?
>
> Hopefully,
>
> Don Beckerman
> Isan Orchid Guest Lodge
> Thabo, Nongkhai, Thiland
> The Gateway to Indo China
>
> isnorchd@nk.ksc.co.th
_______________________________________________________
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linda on tue 29 feb 00
Don, use a chamoix.
martin howard on wed 1 mar 00
Don don't use a natural chamois, only an artificial one.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road
Great Saling
BRAINTREE
Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
www.webbscottage.co.uk Should be ready for 2000 :-) or 2001
Joseph Carames on thu 2 mar 00
hi There are many others more technically oriented then myself in this
forum who may have better suggestions, but here goes.
There has been a lot of talk about paper clay and how strong it is.
handbuilders like it and from what I have read wheel throwers like it as
long as the paper shreds are small enough.
What I have found out on my own is experimenting with caly is that
putting some organic matter into the slip before reycling and letting
that get a good mold growing in the clay gives it a lot of plasticity. it
also goive it a lot of stink. so ventilate I have used leftover wine. The
clay has actually developed some blue veins in it as if i were some fancy
chees.
the last suggestion I can offer is to get some grog and add that it may
not help the plasticity but at least the clay will hold it self up. I
see for myself in my attempts at sculpture that adding a some malocite to
the white earthenware I am using makes the clay more substantial and less
frail. Less likely to disolve as I try to make the shapes I need.
Good luck I will read along and hope to hear about how you succeed.
Joseph Carames
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Earl Brunner on thu 2 mar 00
Well, we've had this discussion before. Natural chamois as
sold in the
US is an animal product, but not "true" chamois from the
endangered goat
(or whatever it is). If one believes that one should not
use animal
parts/ products for anything whatsoever, then of course
there are many alternatives out there. I'm sure you could
find some of them mentioned
in a search of the archives. If that is not a concern, use
the leather alternative. I saw a bumper sticker the other
day that I liked. "I
didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a
vegetarian!"
martin howard wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Don don't use a natural chamois, only an artificial one.
>
> Martin Howard
> Webb's Cottage Pottery
> Woolpits Road
> Great Saling
> BRAINTREE
> Essex CM7 5DZ
> 01371 850 423
> martin@webbscottage.co.uk
> www.webbscottage.co.uk Should be ready for 2000 :-) or 2001
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
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