Jonathan Kaplan on mon 31 jan 00
>From a recent ClayArt post.....
"I really don't know why we bother with them at all. They really are only for
educators. It would be nice to have an organization that was more responsive
to the needs and issues of studio potters."
So my question is:
What are the needs and issues of studio potters? Is there an agenda? What
do studio potters need that can be addressed/promoted/secured by an
organization?
Best
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
Ceramic Design Group LTd/Production Services
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs, CO 80477
(970) 879-9139 voice and fax
http://www.sni.net/ceramicdesign
UPS: 1280 13th St. Unit13
Steamboat Springs, CO 80487
Ray Aldridge on tue 1 feb 00
At 02:47 PM 1/31/00 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>From a recent ClayArt post.....
>
>"I really don't know why we bother with them at all. They really are only for
>educators. It would be nice to have an organization that was more responsive
>to the needs and issues of studio potters."
>
>So my question is:
>
>What are the needs and issues of studio potters? Is there an agenda? What
>do studio potters need that can be addressed/promoted/secured by an
>organization?
>
Here's some food for thought:
http://www.clayguild.org/discuss/missionrough.html
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Bill Campbell on wed 9 feb 00
Jonathan
The issues that I am talking about when it comes to studio potters should
also be the same issues that educators need to be talking about.
The issues Of health, safety, pollution, what goes into the waste stream,
waste water, kilns that do not waste fuel, ergonomics, the vast amount of
information that is necessary to learn after college, new products that are
used in the ceramic industry that haven't made it to the colleges yet,
advanced moldmaking etc etc.
There are many other issues that could and need to be discussed that would
allow us better life's as potters and be better citizens when it comes to
protecting the earth. Our government has organizations that require us to
keep minimum standards. This is not the place to discuss what I have seen in
our colleges. What I do believe is that colleges are the place where
environmental, and safety habits should be learned rather than ignored. It is
the place where we should be proactive.
If you don't believe that we need an organization you probably don't
understand the questions.
I like to come to NCECA as a social event too, and always come home with
enough information to make the trip worthwhile. I do however resent being
treated as an outsider [potter]. Its an attitude
Regards,
Bill Campbell
Jonathan Kaplan on thu 10 feb 00
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Jonathan
>The issues that I am talking about when it comes to studio potters should
>also be the same issues that educators need to be talking about.
>The issues Of health, safety, pollution, what goes into the waste stream,
>waste water, kilns that do not waste fuel, ergonomics, the vast amount of
>information that is necessary to learn after college, new products that are
>used in the ceramic industry that haven't made it to the colleges yet,
>advanced moldmaking etc etc.
>There are many other issues that could and need to be discussed that would
>allow us better life's as potters and be better citizens when it comes to
>protecting the earth. Our government has organizations that require us to
>keep minimum standards. This is not the place to discuss what I have seen in
>our colleges. What I do believe is that colleges are the place where
>environmental, and safety habits should be learned rather than ignored. It is
>the place where we should be proactive.
>If you don't believe that we need an organization you probably don't
>understand the questions.
>I like to come to NCECA as a social event too, and always come home with
>enough information to make the trip worthwhile. I do however resent being
>treated as an outsider [potter]. Its an attitude
>Regards,
>Bill Campbell
Well Bill:
Hello there. I was wondering if you would reply. You do know, I am sure, as
we have known each other for too long that there was, is or whatever
nothing personal in my original posting.
Nonetheless, you do raise some important and salient points towards which I
certainly would not disagree. But whether NCECA is the correct venue for
this, I'm not so sure. Perhaps CerMaTech is. You were a presenter and just
returned. Do you think this is the proper place for such a forum? We some
or any of those issues addressed?
While the scope and breadth of your extensive business operations does
require you to keep those standards, there are not many potters whose
business level is no where comparable to yours. Not that at any level we
shouldn't be aware, proactive and practice proper environmental and safety
habits. Forget about school teaching these. You are right in this regard.
None of us wants any one in our shops telling us what we must do to abide
by the law. But we all know too well that this has been the case with many,
and I know from past conversations with you that you have been subject to
this.
And yes, I do know and understand the questions, all too well.
I would be one of the first to endorse an organization, but there are many
questions, other than the environmental and safety issues, pollution,
kilns, ergonomics, etc. that would need to be addressed. The point is, most
potters being small operations, limited in financial resources, also
limited in vision (my own opinion) would question "why me?" "Why an
orgainization if I can do it myself?" I would be most interested to hear
your take on other questions other than environmental and health/safety
issues. If you think that these would be better addressed in an
organizational setting, perhaps you could have put in a proposal for a
breakout session at NCECA. Its not a big thing, but could certainly have
started something, if indeed that was to be. I put a proposal in for one
of these and was accepted for Denver......
"Assisted Technology for the Potter... an exploration of potter's
attitudes concerning use of assisted technologies such as slip cast,
hydraulic pressing, jiggering, and bisqueware purchasing. What is required
in terms of a paradigm shif in our ways of thinking about how we define
ourselves as potters and what are its ramifications."
While this is certainly not earth shattering or perhaps as important as
environmental/safety/health/pollution issues, it is certainly an issue for
many. And I am sure you know this as we have talked amoung ourselves many
times about this. My agenda? Sure. You bet!
So here's my point, and I am also sure you know and understand that I have
shared my feelings with you regarding academic clay and clay in the real
world many times. If you feel you have been treated as an outsider, how
much of that is your projection of your attitude? Perhaps you may want to
consider making an effort to have your agenda, your point of view,
considered and take part as an active participant, not just being involved
in a social context. Attitudes can change with participation. You have a
wealth of knowledge, experience, and background from your many years as one
of the most successful potters and pottery making business. You have an
invaluable resource to share on a level that should only be small part
ego, and large part sharing and communicating with the group. If you care
to. Of course, you may feel that NCECA is not the place for you to do this
or the correct venue. Listen, I have been a studio
potter/designer/manufacturer for as many years as you have. Our careers
pretty much have paralleled each others in many ways. We have both had our
own share of issues to deal with, and we have pretty much dealt with them,
either solving problems ourselves or using the wisdom and experience of
others. Every one at NCECA is a potter, in one way or another. I'm sorry
you feel treated as an outsider. This has not been my experience.
While this may sound self righteous and perhaps too ego driven on my part,
but I had the occasion recently to design a product for a tobacco company.
This would have been a financially rewarding project. Design fees,
prototypes, samples, molds, tooling, 500 pieces to make. And I got to
thinking about being involved with the tobacco industry. We decided to
decline the job and not be in bed with these purveyors or death and dying,
companies that have lied and manipulated information all for their
financial gain. Where this is going is that from this simple statement, we
developed a mission statement, what is the purpose of Ceramic Design Group.
Well, part of this statement includes education and helping others in
whatever ways I can. And I think that my small involvement in NCECA these
last 3 years is a small part of this, and yes, it is also ego driven as
sure, I like to strut my stuff also. We all do. But as I am sure you know,
we give and share information all the time. You have shared with me, and I
hope that I have also shared some with you over these many years we have
known each other.
Napoleon Hill in his books speaks of a "master mind group." These are the
people that you surround yourself with. Idea people, resource people, those
who can help you while you help them. We all contribute to each other. This
is one way. If you need to reduce emissions from your kiln, there is a
wealth of information and people who can help on a one to one basis. Well,
then we can also form a group and as a group address those problems
together and find solutions together.
Again, if being part of a group is important and it serves your needs.
I think its is also a question of timing, of place, and energy. Of course
I'll be glad to help start and organization. But I still question the
efficacy of doing it in a group, but then again, thats my own view.
Anyway Bill, we have known each other too long to have this be a personal
issue. In the long run, if there is a demand for an organization, it will
happen.
See you in Denver? I'll buy drinks.
Respectfully,
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
Ceramic Design Group LTd/Production Services
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs, CO 80477
(970) 879-9139 voice and fax
http://www.sni.net/ceramicdesign
UPS: 1280 13th St. Unit13
Steamboat Springs, CO 80487
Bill Campbell on fri 11 feb 00
Jonathan
You probably will not see me in Denver, even if you are buying the drinks.
The issue that I tried to raise is that there appears to be a need for a
group outside of NCECA for the many issues that potters need to address. The
reason that I brought up the health and safety issue was to use it as an
example of the many different issues that do not get talked about. Let me
talk about that issue before leaving it. Pollution and safety need to happen
at the smallest levels. One trash fire isn't a problem but thousands of them
are a bigger problem than many large industries. Recently there was an
educator on clayart looking for support to pollute with his wood fired kiln.
Are colleges above the law? Is the attitude that students get about pollution
while in school unimportant? I think not. No one is too small or important to
be excused.
The CermaTECH meeting was good but too small. There was some discussion about
holding future meetings in the same cities with NCECA. While educators often
get the conference paid for by their colleges potters do not. Going to
conferences in two locations is out of the question for most potters.
CermaTECH is probably as good as any organization to represent potters. They
have been headed in that direction for some time.
I am not on organization person. I neither want or expect much from NCECA. My
comment about an attitude is shared by most of the potters that I know. I
never see them at NCECA and when I talk to them about it they say that they
never go anymore because of the attitude that I mentioned.
I could cite a substantial list if you would like offline.
I have no problem with NCECA, But I want what I am not getting. You and I
have been networking for years and it works for both of us. I want that
network broadened and I want it to include folks that have answers that go
beyond the level of information that is taught in colleges. You have been
around long enough to know what I mean.
NCECA has not been bashed. I just want to meet with people with similar
issues.
Bill
Jada Ahern on sat 12 feb 00
Questions to ponder...
What exactly are the issues that potters have that DO NOT apply to
educators?
and, What exactly are the issues that educators have that DO NOT
apply to potters?
What are the issues that can apply to all?
And a statement..
It appears to me that there sure are alot of POTTERS that read this list,
and ARE going to NCECA.
(And hopefully the Clayart Room will be filled with them and we find some
issues in common)
And, as a potter, I can't believe that going to NCECA would really be a bust
or a waste of my $150 (plus lodging, etc). I work my butt off for my
clay work. I am looking forward to a little mind stimulation and body
relaxation. At this point in my life I can think of nothing better for a
little R & R in the middle of March 2000. (In the BIG PICTURE 4-5 days is
not such a long time, we have the rest of our lives to make great pots)
Jada
in sunny Tucson, Arizona
Manager-Hummingbird House Studios
hummingbirdhouse.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Campbell
To:
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: More on NCECA bashing.....
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Jonathan
> You probably will not see me in Denver, even if you are buying the drinks.
> The issue that I tried to raise is that there appears to be a need for a
> group outside of NCECA for the many issues that potters need to address.
The
> reason that I brought up the health and safety issue was to use it as an
> example of the many different issues that do not get talked about. Let me
> talk about that issue before leaving it. Pollution and safety need to
happen
> at the smallest levels. One trash fire isn't a problem but thousands of
them
> are a bigger problem than many large industries. Recently there was an
> educator on clayart looking for support to pollute with his wood fired
kiln.
> Are colleges above the law? Is the attitude that students get about
pollution
> while in school unimportant? I think not. No one is too small or important
to
> be excused.
> The CermaTECH meeting was good but too small. There was some discussion
about
> holding future meetings in the same cities with NCECA. While educators
often
> get the conference paid for by their colleges potters do not. Going to
> conferences in two locations is out of the question for most potters.
> CermaTECH is probably as good as any organization to represent potters.
They
> have been headed in that direction for some time.
> I am not on organization person. I neither want or expect much from NCECA.
My
> comment about an attitude is shared by most of the potters that I know. I
> never see them at NCECA and when I talk to them about it they say that
they
> never go anymore because of the attitude that I mentioned.
> I could cite a substantial list if you would like offline.
> I have no problem with NCECA, But I want what I am not getting. You and I
> have been networking for years and it works for both of us. I want that
> network broadened and I want it to include folks that have answers that go
> beyond the level of information that is taught in colleges. You have been
> around long enough to know what I mean.
> NCECA has not been bashed. I just want to meet with people with similar
> issues.
> Bill
>
| |
|
