Chris Schafale on thu 10 feb 00
For those of you who sell your work in galleries on consignment,
here's a question I ran into today. I have some work in a small,
recently opened, local shop. Shortly after Christmas, someone
came into the shop, liked one of my pieces, and asked if I could
make her something similar but a bit larger. The shop manager
took her name, and called me to tell me about it. I called the
customer back, discussed the work, made the piece she wanted,
and today delivered it to her and was paid. Later on today, I was in
the shop, and the manager asked me if I had done the piece for
that woman. I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
shop, and would be subject to their commission. I was taken
aback, as this is not how I do things with another shop where I
have work. Because the shop is new, they have been unwilling to
have a written consignment agreement, since they want to work
out the bugs informally first, so I have nothing in writing as to their
rules. (I knew this was a bad idea, but I let it slip....)
My question is, is this the way things are usually done? If so,
where do you draw the line? In this particular case, because the
shop manager elicited the details and essentially made the sale, I
felt it was not too unreasonable, but what about instances where
someone simply sees my work in the shop, picks up a card, and
calls me later? What if today's customer calls me again and asks
for more work? I'd appreciate any wisdom from the group on this.
Chris
Light One Candle Pottery
Fuquay-Varina, NC
candle@intrex.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/candle (work in progress)
Cindy Strnad on fri 11 feb 00
Chris,
Your shops will expect a commission on work they give you, but for a
consignment shop, I wouldn't offer them more than 20%. Actually, you're
within your rights offering 20% to your wholesale customers as well. They've
done nothing, really--haven't spent any money, done any bookwork. Twenty
percent is generous. Personally, I treat commissions through wholesalers as
retail sales, but I'm probably being overly generous.
I certainly would never be that generous with a consignment customer. (But
then, I don't consign, as a rule.) They've got nothing wrapped up in the
deal to begin with. Tell them what you're offering--don't let them set the
terms. If they don't agree, go elsewhere. You're supplying their shop for
free. If you're providing good work that sells, they need you. Don't forget
it.
Cindy Strnad
earthenv@gwtc.net
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
Wade Blocker on fri 11 feb 00
----------
> From: Chris Schafale
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: consignment/special orders
> Date: Thursday, February 10, 2000 12:54 PM
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> For those of you who sell your work in galleries on consignment,
> here's a question I ran into today. I have some work in a small,
> recently opened, local shop. Shortly after Christmas, someone
> came into the shop, liked one of my pieces, and asked if I could
> make her something similar but a bit larger. The shop manager
> took her name, and called me to tell me about it. I called the
> customer back, discussed the work, made the piece she wanted,
> and today delivered it to her and was paid. Later on today, I was in
> the shop, and the manager asked me if I had done the piece for
> that woman. I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
> time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
> people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
> shop, and would be subject to their commission. I was taken
> aback, as this is not how I do things with another shop where I
> have work. Because the shop is new, they have been unwilling to
> have a written consignment agreement, since they want to work
> out the bugs informally first, so I have nothing in writing as to their
> rules. (I knew this was a bad idea, but I let it slip....)
>
> My question is, is this the way things are usually done? If so,
> where do you draw the line? In this particular case, because the
> shop manager elicited the details and essentially made the sale, I
> felt it was not too unreasonable, but what about instances where
> someone simply sees my work in the shop, picks up a card, and
> calls me later? What if today's customer calls me again and asks
> for more work? I'd appreciate any wisdom from the group on this.
>
> Chris
> Light One Candle Pottery
> Fuquay-Varina, NC
> candle@intrex.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/candle (work in progress)
Chris, It is standard practice for the gallery to get a commission on work
that is seen in that particular gallery. If your work were not displayed
there you would not have received an order from that customer. I know of
artists who sent people to a gallery where they displayed their work, and
then dealt privately with them. As soon as the gallery owner discovered
this, those artists were asked to leave. Some gallery owners ask for the
whole commissionyou have arranged previously on your ware . Since some
expenses are involved, wrapping by you rather than the gallery, the
percentage should be less than what you pay the owner on consignement
sales. That is something you have to work out with the gallery. It is a
sign of goodwill on your part to let the gallery know if someone who had
seen your work there got in touch with you directly. Most galleries I have
been in do not allow an artist to leave cards with their home address to
avoid the possible predicament you write about. After paying your
commission for your customer's present purchase, I personally would not
feel obligated to pay a commission on future work that you might get. Mia
in sunny ABQ
Craig Martell on fri 11 feb 00
Hi Chris:
If a gallery takes an order for a piece or pieces and does all or most of
the work with the customer, I pay them full commission.
If a customer sees my work in a gallery and contacts me and I deal directly
with them and do all or most of the communicating and delivery of the piece
etc., I give the gallery a "finders fee", which is usually about half of
the commission and is sometimes open to debate.
I am usually more than happy to let the gallery deal with customers and pay
their commission but it just depends on the person and what they have in mind.
regards, Craig Martell in Oregon
Patricia L Porter on fri 11 feb 00
Chris
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you about whether or not the
consignment gallery's commission should be paid. IMHO, first you took
your wares to the gallery to sell the pieces, which involves work on the
gallery's behalf. Second, the gallery promoted you and your work by
giving their client's name and number to you. You would not have had
this contact through the gallery, you would not have had contact with the
client, and therefore, would not have had the opportunity to produce a
larger, more expensive piece.
I know that galleries have gotten outrageous in their fees, but it's a
fact that, for now, you may have to live with. If you had your own web
page, and at that site, you give the availability to the general public
to respond to you on-line, as a primary contact, then you might have
options. I think that you might have to inform your "real" galleries
that you also have a "virtual" one, and work out something concerning any
referrals that they may give you.
In any case, I believe that you must reevaluate your thoughts on
galleries and come to some sort of plan to deal with as many
eventualities as you can think of. Again, I'm sorry if I have offended
you, But I have worked retail and consignment as well as being a trained
Interior Designer and I am beginning to sell my work and get represented
in galleries, so I know some of what you are going through.
Pat Porter
pporter6@juno.com
Aurora CO USA
On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:54:14 EST Chris Schafale
writes:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> For those of you who sell your work in galleries on consignment,
> here's a question I ran into today. I have some work in a small,
> recently opened, local shop. Shortly after Christmas, someone
> came into the shop, liked one of my pieces, and asked if I could
> make her something similar but a bit larger. The shop manager
> took her name, and called me to tell me about it. I called the
> customer back, discussed the work, made the piece she wanted,
> and today delivered it to her and was paid. Later on today, I was
> in
> the shop, and the manager asked me if I had done the piece for
> that woman. I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
> time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
> people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
> shop, and would be subject to their commission. I was taken
> aback, as this is not how I do things with another shop where I
> have work. Because the shop is new, they have been unwilling to
> have a written consignment agreement, since they want to work
> out the bugs informally first, so I have nothing in writing as to
> their
> rules. (I knew this was a bad idea, but I let it slip....)
>
> My question is, is this the way things are usually done? If so,
> where do you draw the line? In this particular case, because the
> shop manager elicited the details and essentially made the sale, I
> felt it was not too unreasonable, but what about instances where
> someone simply sees my work in the shop, picks up a card, and
> calls me later? What if today's customer calls me again and asks
> for more work? I'd appreciate any wisdom from the group on this.
>
> Chris
> Light One Candle Pottery
> Fuquay-Varina, NC
> candle@intrex.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/candle (work in progress)
Mike Gordon on fri 11 feb 00
I've never run into this problem myself. But know others who have. They
handled it this way. Their work was in a gallery. A client saw the work
and called at a later date to say that they would like to buy it. This
is after the show had run its course. The artist sent the gallery a sum
of money, I don't know if this equaled the galleries regular commision
or not. But the feeling was that the work was seen there, & sale may
never have occured if it was not seen in this gallery. it was just good
business PR since the artist does a lot of sales through this
gallery.Mike
Earl Brunner on fri 11 feb 00
The shop owner participated materially in this particular sell, so I
believe could reasonably expect compensation. As you pointed out
there are many gray areas in this type of customer relationship. This
would be why a consignment agreement is important and it works
both ways. They on the one hand don't want to be bound by an
agreement, yet expect you to abide by the "rules". This is not fair to
either you or them. In some states,without the agreement you have
little recourse or claim on your stock it they should go belly up.
Customers that go to the trouble of tracking you down personally
are a different story I believe. In the first place if I were the gallery
owner, I wouldn't allow cards that had phone or address on them.
I would want them to go through me. I'm promoting the work.
On the other hand if you live in the same town as the gallery, you
need to protect the gallery's price. i.e. your retail price should be in
the same range as the gallery's. I have a friend that lives way the
heck n gone out in the boonies, (say 50 miles or more from the
nearest large metropolitan area and over 100 miles from his main
market.) If you can find his hole in the wall shop/studio and are
willing to make the trip, He allows you to take a substantial reduction
off retail. There has to be some kind of statutes of limitations on how
long a gallery is entitled to compensation for a continued relationship
with a customer. Ultimately I expect it will come down to your own
ethical framework, What do you consider fair, and right and honest.
Chris Schafale wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> For those of you who sell your work in galleries on consignment,
> here's a question I ran into today. I have some work in a small,
> recently opened, local shop. Shortly after Christmas, someone
> came into the shop, liked one of my pieces, and asked if I could
> make her something similar but a bit larger. The shop manager
> took her name, and called me to tell me about it. I called the
> customer back, discussed the work, made the piece she wanted,
> and today delivered it to her and was paid. Later on today, I was in
> the shop, and the manager asked me if I had done the piece for
> that woman. I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
> time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
> people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
> shop, and would be subject to their commission. I was taken
> aback, as this is not how I do things with another shop where I
> have work. Because the shop is new, they have been unwilling to
> have a written consignment agreement, since they want to work
> out the bugs informally first, so I have nothing in writing as to their
> rules. (I knew this was a bad idea, but I let it slip....)
>
> My question is, is this the way things are usually done? If so,
> where do you draw the line? In this particular case, because the
> shop manager elicited the details and essentially made the sale, I
> felt it was not too unreasonable, but what about instances where
> someone simply sees my work in the shop, picks up a card, and
> calls me later? What if today's customer calls me again and asks
> for more work? I'd appreciate any wisdom from the group on this.
>
> Chris
> Light One Candle Pottery
> Fuquay-Varina, NC
> candle@intrex.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/candle (work in progress)
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Bonita Cohn on fri 11 feb 00
Dear Chris, A worked in a gallery for awhile. Special orders were %50
deposit. This was paid to the artist to do the commission. The work was then
delivered to the gallery, who collected from the client, along with the sales
tax.
As for referrals: after an exhibition, a piece was pictured as news in a
publication. A year later, my client called the Gallery that was reviewed,
asking about a certain piece that was in the show. The gallery sent me a
letter with his contact information, and asked that a 10% commission would be
appreciated if I sold the piece. A few emails and so on, I did sell the
piece. I sent them 10%.
Everyone does their part of the dance, and should get some recompense.
Just a few thoughts on a damp, foggy night in San Francisco, after the rain.
Bonita Cohn
Richard Jeffery on fri 11 feb 00
Unless you have an agreement to the contrary, I feel that any direct repeat
sales are nothing to do with the gallery. Their commission is on the SALE
of the first piece - not an INTRODUCTION fee. Ask them what they are doing
for their commission in these cases. If the repeat sales are because they
are heavily plugging your work, then there may be a case - but there's no
cost to them in terms of storage, insurance, etc. If the gallery wants to
preserve its role in the selling process, then they should act as
intermediary, and perhaps not get you to contact the customer directly. I
have a number of galleries that prefer to do this, and as a result I use
different promotional material with them that doesn't have contact details.
[I'm doing this because they are galleries who DO get me sales.]
I think they might need your help to get more professional more quickly....
Richard
Bournemouth UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of Chris Schafale
Sent: 10 February 2000 19:54
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: consignment/special orders
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
For those of you who sell your work in galleries on consignment,
here's a question I ran into today. I have some work in a small,
recently opened, local shop. Shortly after Christmas, someone
came into the shop, liked one of my pieces, and asked if I could
make her something similar but a bit larger. The shop manager
took her name, and called me to tell me about it. I called the
customer back, discussed the work, made the piece she wanted,
and today delivered it to her and was paid. Later on today, I was in
the shop, and the manager asked me if I had done the piece for
that woman. I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
shop, and would be subject to their commission. I was taken
aback, as this is not how I do things with another shop where I
have work. Because the shop is new, they have been unwilling to
have a written consignment agreement, since they want to work
out the bugs informally first, so I have nothing in writing as to their
rules. (I knew this was a bad idea, but I let it slip....)
My question is, is this the way things are usually done? If so,
where do you draw the line? In this particular case, because the
shop manager elicited the details and essentially made the sale, I
felt it was not too unreasonable, but what about instances where
someone simply sees my work in the shop, picks up a card, and
calls me later? What if today's customer calls me again and asks
for more work? I'd appreciate any wisdom from the group on this.
Chris
Light One Candle Pottery
Fuquay-Varina, NC
candle@intrex.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/candle (work in progress)
Anita Rickenberg on fri 11 feb 00
A usual agreement is that if you make a sale (special order) because a
customer initially saw your work in a gallery, the gallery receives a
commission. This commission is less than the amount for your work that
they are showing. For example, the commission charged for work sold by the
gallery is 30%, but the special orders you receive would only be 10%.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it might be a good idea to draft your
own agreement for working with them to at least give a starting point for a
consignment contract. Fewer misunderstandings create a much better working
relationship.
Anita
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Schafale
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:54 PM
Subject: consignment/special orders
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> For those of you who sell your work in galleries on consignment,
> here's a question I ran into today. I have some work in a small,
> recently opened, local shop. Shortly after Christmas, someone
> came into the shop, liked one of my pieces, and asked if I could
> make her something similar but a bit larger. The shop manager
> took her name, and called me to tell me about it. I called the
> customer back, discussed the work, made the piece she wanted,
> and today delivered it to her and was paid. Later on today, I was in
> the shop, and the manager asked me if I had done the piece for
> that woman. I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
> time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
> people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
> shop, and would be subject to their commission. I was taken
> aback, as this is not how I do things with another shop where I
> have work. Because the shop is new, they have been unwilling to
> have a written consignment agreement, since they want to work
> out the bugs informally first, so I have nothing in writing as to their
> rules. (I knew this was a bad idea, but I let it slip....)
>
> My question is, is this the way things are usually done? If so,
> where do you draw the line? In this particular case, because the
> shop manager elicited the details and essentially made the sale, I
> felt it was not too unreasonable, but what about instances where
> someone simply sees my work in the shop, picks up a card, and
> calls me later? What if today's customer calls me again and asks
> for more work? I'd appreciate any wisdom from the group on this.
>
> Chris
> Light One Candle Pottery
> Fuquay-Varina, NC
> candle@intrex.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/candle (work in progress)
Janet Kaiser on fri 11 feb 00
Dear Chris
It all naturally depends on what you agree with the gallery/outlet in your
discussion about exhibiting, terms, etc. However, here in the UK what you
describe would be considered not only fair but standard practice and
therefore "not worth mentioning" as has been the case with you.
When you think about it, it is the same as any gallery sale: you make a sale
through the gallery so they get commission. Remember, you would not have
gotten that sale without (A) the buyer seeing your work in that space (B) if
the gallery had not made the effort to make a provisional sale/commission on
your behalf.
I believe that is fair enough. They have "lost" the sale of a smaller piece
but "won" both you and themselves the sale of a larger and therefore more
expensive piece. Galleries have to make sales to exist too, you know! And
it is a win-win situation. The client gets what they want, you make a sale
and the gallery earns their commission for their service to both maker and
client. Everyone is happy.
If a gallery just handed out cards and people went off to get the work
straight from the makers, there would be no galleries left!
However, if someone does take a card, pops up on your doorstep and does not
mention how they found you.... Well, that is fair enough. If you make a sale
from that visit, you do not usually pay a gallery commission. However, if
they enthuse about your work seen at said gallery and are just hoping to get
a good deal "cutting out the middleman" I leave it up to your conscience
what you decide to do... The gallery may or may not hear of what goes on. I
can only tell you that we have dropped one local maker who was getting many
referrals, but was mysteriously not making any sales... Needless to say we
eventually twigged and found he was living off the sales/commissions he was
making using The CoA as a shop front.
In The CoA Consignment Agreement it clearly states any sales or commissions
due to referral are subject to the same terms as selling through the
gallery. If a commission is large or involves a lot of work with the
clients, we sometimes reduce the commission from 30% to 25% or less, but
that is at our disgression. In one instance where the maker was having to do
a lot of unforeseen and unplanned travelling to the site, I waivered the
commission completely because I thought it rather unfair and really felt the
maker was being put on by the clients.
Once a client is referred to the maker it is out of our hands. We have to
trust the maker to be fair. We also have a clause in our agreement which
says that the price in the gallery will be reasonably consistent with prices
at all other outlets. This includes prices when the maker is selling
directly to the public from their own studio.
I see you refer to this outlet as a shop... If they are buying your work and
it is not on consignment then the clause about commission (money) on a
commission (work) or referral must be part of your agreement.
Hope this helps
Janet Kaiser, wondering why the US Military are visiting our web site?
The Chapel of Art: Home of The International Potters' Path
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales, UK
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
We have server problems. If you cannot access
The CoA web page, please try again later. Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Schafale
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: 10 February 2000 19:55
Subject: consignment/special orders
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
For those of you who sell your work in galleries on consignment,
here's a question I ran into today. I have some work in a small,
recently opened, local shop. Shortly after Christmas, someone
came into the shop, liked one of my pieces, and asked if I could
make her something similar but a bit larger. The shop manager
took her name, and called me to tell me about it. I called the
customer back, discussed the work, made the piece she wanted,
and today delivered it to her and was paid. Later on today, I was in
the shop, and the manager asked me if I had done the piece for
that woman. I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
shop, and would be subject to their commission. I was taken
aback, as this is not how I do things with another shop where I
have work. Because the shop is new, they have been unwilling to
have a written consignment agreement, since they want to work
out the bugs informally first, so I have nothing in writing as to their
rules. (I knew this was a bad idea, but I let it slip....)
My question is, is this the way things are usually done? If so,
where do you draw the line? In this particular case, because the
shop manager elicited the details and essentially made the sale, I
felt it was not too unreasonable, but what about instances where
someone simply sees my work in the shop, picks up a card, and
calls me later? What if today's customer calls me again and asks
for more work? I'd appreciate any wisdom from the group on this.
Chris
Light One Candle Pottery
Fuquay-Varina, NC
candle@intrex.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/candle (work in progress)
Kim Marie on fri 11 feb 00
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
> time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
> people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
> shop, and would be subject to their commission.
For the shops I have consignment in, if the order is set up through the
store as it was in this case, I'll make it and take it to the shop. So, yes
in that case I wouldn't have received the order without that shop and don't
mind paying the commission. BUT before I would make it I certainly hope the
shop would retain a deposit. I hate making something to someone elses specs
only to have them back out.
I've also found that even well written agreements don't always protect. I
have a few sad stories here I won't bore you with but if you want more
details on that, contact me @ my email address.
Re: your other questions, if someone picks up your card there and gives you
a call w/ an order. I wouldn't feel any obligation to store. Also, if a
customer calls you again direct, you are the one working the sale and making
the order. In the first case, the store actually got the order for you.
These are my thoughts anyway. We'll see how other sages feel too!
kim
near Skaneateles Lake (NY)which can't be seen today even with no leaves on
the trees due to the fog fog fog.
Terrance Lazaroff on sat 12 feb 00
Chris:
I suggest you write up a contract of what you are prepared to live with and
ask the shop to write up a contract that they want. Then negotiate. I have
received numerous referals from my galleries and boutiques and when I accept
a special out of shop order I pay a finders fee to the organizations that
refer clients directly to me.
I have also found that special orders require a great deal more work than the
original. Sometimes colours change due to clay material changes and due to
different firing conditions. The end result is never exactly what the
customer wants.
Terrance
St-Hubert, Quebec
Canada
David McDonald on sat 12 feb 00
I believe that this can all be distilled down to the idea of good will. I
can understand a gallery owner being angry if they thought that once they
found a patron for our work, we then set out to circumvent them so that
we could get all the profit, and not have to pay them. I believe that a
good degree of trust is very important in these situations.
The one and only consignment account I still maintain is with a gallery
here in my own hometown. It is owned and run by artists who promote and
sell their own work, and the work of others, such as myself. They and I
have had this sort of discussion before. We all have a need for integrity
and to be treated fairly. Talking to prospective customers, and making a
sale takes time. A sale may not even happen after time is spent with
potential customers. I only go to a certain length to encourage studio
visits, as I have learned what an interuption it can be in the flow of
work and privacy. But when someone does want to come by, and they do end
up buying something, do I think it's right to pay the gallery a
commision, when I made the sale and took the time to do it? No. No more
than I would expect the gallery to pay ME a commision when someone who I
directed to that gallery, went there and bought something, whether it be
my work, or someone else's. Many times I have been to craft shows selling
my work, and refered people to the local gallery here, as a place to
visit when in town. So it is not only the gallery who is promoting my
work, and themselves, locally. So am I. And so I am not willing to turn
over exclusivity rights to this gallery. Sure they would love it if I
would. When a visitor comes by the studio and wants a certain piece of
my work that I don't have on hand, but the gallery does, I direct them
there, and the gallery makes the sale, and that's that. If the gallery
calls me because a customer is in looking for a piece they don't have on
hand, and I do, they come and get it, and they make the sale. Would I
ever undersell the gallery which represents me locally? NEVER! All of
these different facets of integrity follow us around where ever we go,
and it is through our actions that our reputations with one another are
built. All it takes is one bad experience to sour a relationship which
took a long while to cultivate.
If any gallery which handles my work has a significantly different view
than myself on any of the fronts which make up a business relationship, I
just wouldn't be working with them, and I'm guessing they might feel the
same way.
We can come up with consignment contracts/terms, to cover every
complicated possible scenario we can think of, but ultimately if we don't
have good feelings about the spirit of the laws which these agreements
represent, situations are bound to occur which will leave us feeling less
than glad to have been a part of them.
My long 25 cents worth. David
On Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:14:20 EST Richard Jeffery
writes:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> Unless you have an agreement to the contrary, I feel that any direct
> repeat
> sales are nothing to do with the gallery. Their commission is on
> the SALE
> of the first piece - not an INTRODUCTION fee. Ask them what they
> are doing
> for their commission in these cases. If the repeat sales are
> because they
> are heavily plugging your work, then there may be a case - but
> there's no
> cost to them in terms of storage, insurance, etc. If the gallery
> wants to
> preserve its role in the selling process, then they should act as
> intermediary, and perhaps not get you to contact the customer
> directly. I
> have a number of galleries that prefer to do this, and as a result I
> use
> different promotional material with them that doesn't have contact
> details.
> [I'm doing this because they are galleries who DO get me sales.]
>
> I think they might need your help to get more professional more
> quickly....
>
> Richard
>
> Bournemouth UK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On
> Behalf
> Of Chris Schafale
> Sent: 10 February 2000 19:54
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: consignment/special orders
>
>
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> For those of you who sell your work in galleries on consignment,
> here's a question I ran into today. I have some work in a small,
> recently opened, local shop. Shortly after Christmas, someone
> came into the shop, liked one of my pieces, and asked if I could
> make her something similar but a bit larger. The shop manager
> took her name, and called me to tell me about it. I called the
> customer back, discussed the work, made the piece she wanted,
> and today delivered it to her and was paid. Later on today, I was
> in
> the shop, and the manager asked me if I had done the piece for
> that woman. I told her I had, whereupon she informed me (first
> time I'd heard of this) that any orders I took that came through
> people seeing my work in the shop, should be handled through the
> shop, and would be subject to their commission. I was taken
> aback, as this is not how I do things with another shop where I
> have work. Because the shop is new, they have been unwilling to
> have a written consignment agreement, since they want to work
> out the bugs informally first, so I have nothing in writing as to
> their
> rules. (I knew this was a bad idea, but I let it slip....)
>
> My question is, is this the way things are usually done? If so,
> where do you draw the line? In this particular case, because the
> shop manager elicited the details and essentially made the sale, I
> felt it was not too unreasonable, but what about instances where
> someone simply sees my work in the shop, picks up a card, and
> calls me later? What if today's customer calls me again and asks
> for more work? I'd appreciate any wisdom from the group on this.
>
> Chris
> Light One Candle Pottery
> Fuquay-Varina, NC
> candle@intrex.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/candle (work in progress)
David McDonald
Limberlost Pottery
721 First Street
Prescott,AZ 86301
(520)778-7854 claydog@juno.com
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Janet Kaiser on sun 13 feb 00
With all due respect, I must protest at claims being made on this issue, all
be they (thankfully) from the minority.
I am sure most professional artists/makers who sell through good galleries
know exactly how valuable this co-operation and collaboration is. Indeed,
that is why most galleries prefer to work with top-notch professionals,
because they know from personal experience just what an important role the
gallery and/or their agents fulfil. They certainly do not regard a gallery
as just a yard of counter!!
I know how many fight tooth and nail to be accepted by certain galleries
and/or agents/agencies and organisations, because they know through simply
having their work accepted, is promotion in itself and absolutely
invaluable. Indeed, selling work through a top-notch gallery can be a
turning point in a career. Many an "unknown" has only become a household
name through exposure in the right place at the right time.
How can a maker be so naive as to say things like "They've done nothing,
really--haven't spent any money, done any bookwork."? Running a gallery is
more than a full-time occupation and involves not only hard work, but a
great deal of investment in both time and money. Have you ever thought what
it costs to set up, never mind what the running costs are for a medium sized
gallery? I can assure you it would make most studio potters blanche to see
the costs involved, nevermind the total commitment needed to get each and
every exhibition together. No "bookwork"? HA! What about all the research,
accounting and correspondence involved?
I get totally teed-off with the assumption that the greedy gallery is living
off the fat of the land with no effort or risk involved, whilst the poor
maker/artist has to live off mere crumbs, whilst toiling against all odds.
Some big fat spider weaving its web to catch the poor little fly and gobble
it all up.
Get real!
This is supposed to be a partnership. Everyone concentrates on their own
skills and when it all works well, the artist/maker is working at what they
do best in peace and quiet, whilst the gallery is the buffer between them
and the big bad world. Quietly encouraging, promoting and selling work for
the artist/maker, building their confidence and reputation, making the world
take notice of confident and well made work, creating an opportunity to
expand and improve through the different stages of their creative
development. Going through the good times and bad together. Supporting and
encouraging artists and makers when they are at low creative ebbs... Just
like a good friend, but knowing the "technicalities" that friends and family
are sometimes ignorant of, overlook or ignore. A shoulder to cry on, but
also there to share a triumph... A true friend.
And added to all that (administration, physical work, cost, worry, personal
and emotional involvement) having to deal with the great public; educating,
advising, selling, promoting the work that we put so much faith in.
We are not selling sacks of potatoes or shelves full of the-price-is-right
wares here. We are using our professional skills to create not only the
right environment but also to put together a whole package. Each exhibition
becomes a thrilling experience to everyone who takes part or visits. It
takes a lot of guts, hard work and skill to create the perfect mix.
There is as much commitment and passion involved in doing that, as there is
in creating individual pieces. Each and every artwork is carefully
considered and evaluated. They are the bricks used to create the whole.
At the end of the day, I sometimes feel like we are selling little bits of
our souls. Often it is too much and I cannot part with a special piece...
Eckhard and I have been known to put red spots on work which we really
cannot afford. But when something really sings to me and I cannot bare
someone to take it away... (whether bought by a client or taken back by the
maker) I just have to weaken.
As for the "take-it-or-leave-it" and "you-need-me-more-than-I-need-you"
attitude towards a gallery which has offered the opportunity to exhibit
and/or haggling about when commission should or should not be paid... Well,
any gallery which is really worth exhibiting in, will rightly say "on your
bike". They have a hard enough time handling the many artistic temperaments
(of both artists and clients), without inviting agro from self-confessed
egotists. And, like bricks, there are plenty more around to chose from if
one does not fit.
Like all good partnerships, there has to be a 100% commitment, trust, faith
and honesty on both sides, otherwise it will soon fall apart no matter how
passionate the first encounters are. Cover your back with a Consignment
Agreement, because we do live in the big bad world and there are bad eggs
around. If a set-up feels wrong, then do not act against your
instincts. If you feel something is not right, just back off. That is what
instincts are for... Trust them! Listen to what others have experienced and
be avoid those galleries which have a bad reputation. Be aware that even
galleries with a good reputation may let you down.
But there are also so-called friends who may stab you in the back one day.
However, if you enter a friendship thinking that from the start... Well,
maybe life has been a real bitch all along and you have learned to be that
way. On the other hand, always to have a negative attitude is not going to
inspire a warm response in others or help form a close, lasting relationship
with anyone.
Janet "Come into my parlour said the spider to the fly" Kaiser
The Chapel of Art: Home of The International Potters' Path
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales, UK
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
We have server problems. If you cannot access
The CoA web site, please try again later. Thanks!
Michael McDowell on sun 13 feb 00
Chris,
I would agree with all the opinions expressed on this subject so far, even
though that might seem to be contradictory. There are instances in which a
gallery deserves a commission, in some instances even a full commission, on
special orders to you from their customers. But an even more fundamental issue
is that you deserve to have a contract with the gallery that clearly spells
out the rights and responsibilities of both parties. I know it can be very
hard to get a new gallery to sign such a contract. It seems to the uninitiated
that they are taking some sort of risk in doing so. This is a perfect
opportunity to educate these people on the value of such a contract to both
parties.
If at all possible, I would attempt to hold out the commission due them as a
carrot to encourage them to "put it in writing"! It's probably easiest if you
offer them a first draft that covers the most significant issues for you, and
addresses their desire for commission in such cases as you report. Just tell
them they can have the money as soon as the ink is dry on their signatures...
Michael McDowell
Whatcom County, WA USA
mmpots@memes.com
http://www2.memes.com/mmpots
Mark & Pauline Donaldson-Drzazga on mon 14 feb 00
------------------
Dear Janet,
Nice one Janet.That's telling it the way it is.
I do not deal with galleries but have an agent in Canada dealing with North
America. We would be nowhere without Stuart, he puts so much time and effort
into his part of the bargain, it's unreal. We have been through good and bad
times and are friends, a trust has been built up over the years.
Old Red Indian proverb :- =22Walk in a mans mocassins for two moons before =
you
find fault in him.=22
Happy potting Marek http://www.moley.uk.com
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