mel jacobson on fri 18 feb 00
it is important for many of you that have not had a great deal
of experience in working with clay bodies to understand that
you do not buy a ready made clay and expect that it will be
able to do everything you want.
just listen to tom wirt, a full time potter talk of clay.
he has spent several years doing research on a regular
basis to find a clay body that will work for him.
you acquire clays to do special jobs.
if you are going to hump throw all day..make it a
way of working...why would you use a clay that
consistently s-cracked?.....i would look at the clay body
first, and then adjust it.
we are very quick to blame our technique, when in fact
the problems we are having are inherit to the clay. this is
a very common cry here on clayart.
pop outs, bloating, s cracks, line cracks are often the fault
of the clay, because of being forced to do things that it cannot do.
of course technique can be the cause of problems, often...but
not always.
the clay body starts everything. clay is our most important
tool. if a body is not working, well get another one.
the vendors cannot be everything to everyone. they make in most
cases,clays that have a broad range of purpose. you have to deal with that.
what will work for a simple school program may not work for you.
i have felt over the years that my walker pug mill is my best tool.
i am one of those funny fellows that never throws pots from boxed
clay. it all goes in the pug mill. every set of pots i make gets a
sorta careful study...then i make the clay to suit it.
i love sand, grog and open clay. it is how i work. that means that
the bottoms of my pots are rough...and sometimes the cleaning
is a pain in the butt.
as a contrast, ron roy's porcelain pieces are like jewels, and that
is his style. and his research into clay that works to make those
jewels has been extensive. it is not an accident.
so, study clay.
see how it works, change it, experiment.
but, please do not expect a certain clay body to do everything.
about as close as you can come to general purpose clay is
a very open body, sand, grog, fireclay, base clay (goldart like),
ball clay. it can throw,
hand build, and be used for sculpture. if slow bisque fired it will
not bloat or crack.
most new potters love the feel of slick clay, no smell, right
from the box. as you mature you approach clay like fine wine.
old, aged, mellow, made for what you eat..fish, meat, burgers.
mel/mn
i use continetal clay stoneware
add sand and grog
cracked taconite pellets/(iron ore, processed)
add ochre to need. (been using more and more this year.)
recylce/ add small amounts of dry
continental stoneware, sand and grog.
( i also use minnesota clay for ceramic chemicals,
and a variety of purchases. )
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Steve Dalton on sat 19 feb 00
Mel and everybody else,
I've been using Laguna's Rods Bod recently, learning more and more
and its limitations and accepting them. I've adapted my throwing techniques
to get wonderful plates that don't crack, along with cassaroles that can go
into the oven without any problems. I can even throw off the hump, sure
I've had some that cracked, but out of 80 tea bowls only 2 "s" cracked in
bisque. I realized that it was my fault and not the clay bodies. Trying to
throw tall cylinders for pitchers and jars, I've come to understand to take
it
easy and not rush it. It's even a great claybody for wood firing, nice and
toasty
with iron spotting!
Sure a clay body can have its temperments, but I feel one CAN adapt their
techniques
to get what they want from it. Nuture it...respect it...love it like a
woman and it will
do the same for you.
Wedge it, then wedge it some more! I've learned not to use clay straight
from the bag.
A bad habit I picked up from my teacher that I finally kicked.
Steve Dalton
----------
> From: mel jacobson
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: s/crack2
> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:15:05 EST
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>it is important for many of you that have not had a great deal
>of experience in working with clay bodies to understand that
>you do not buy a ready made clay and expect that it will be
>able to do everything you want.
>
>just listen to tom wirt, a full time potter talk of clay.
>he has spent several years doing research on a regular
>basis to find a clay body that will work for him.
>
>you acquire clays to do special jobs.
>if you are going to hump throw all day..make it a
>way of working...why would you use a clay that
>consistently s-cracked?.....i would look at the clay body
>first, and then adjust it.
>
>we are very quick to blame our technique, when in fact
>the problems we are having are inherit to the clay. this is
>a very common cry here on clayart.
>
>pop outs, bloating, s cracks, line cracks are often the fault
>of the clay, because of being forced to do things that it cannot do.
>of course technique can be the cause of problems, often...but
>not always.
>
>the clay body starts everything. clay is our most important
>tool. if a body is not working, well get another one.
>
>the vendors cannot be everything to everyone. they make in most
>cases,clays that have a broad range of purpose. you have to deal with that.
>what will work for a simple school program may not work for you.
>
>i have felt over the years that my walker pug mill is my best tool.
>i am one of those funny fellows that never throws pots from boxed
>clay. it all goes in the pug mill. every set of pots i make gets a
>sorta careful study...then i make the clay to suit it.
>
>i love sand, grog and open clay. it is how i work. that means that
>the bottoms of my pots are rough...and sometimes the cleaning
>is a pain in the butt.
>
>as a contrast, ron roy's porcelain pieces are like jewels, and that
>is his style. and his research into clay that works to make those
>jewels has been extensive. it is not an accident.
>
>so, study clay.
>see how it works, change it, experiment.
>but, please do not expect a certain clay body to do everything.
>
>about as close as you can come to general purpose clay is
>a very open body, sand, grog, fireclay, base clay (goldart like),
>ball clay. it can throw,
>hand build, and be used for sculpture. if slow bisque fired it will
>not bloat or crack.
>
>most new potters love the feel of slick clay, no smell, right
>from the box. as you mature you approach clay like fine wine.
>old, aged, mellow, made for what you eat..fish, meat, burgers.
>
>mel/mn
>
>i use continetal clay stoneware
>add sand and grog
>cracked taconite pellets/(iron ore, processed)
>add ochre to need. (been using more and more this year.)
>
>recylce/ add small amounts of dry
>continental stoneware, sand and grog.
>( i also use minnesota clay for ceramic chemicals,
>and a variety of purchases. )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Ron Roy on sat 19 feb 00
I'm not really disagreeing with Mel here but there are many ways to deal
with clay. If you are not interested in understanding why clay does what it
does - or improving your techniques then switching clays may be the only
answer. You also have to realize that every time your change clays you can
expect differences in glaze fit, melting and colour in glazes. It may seem
difficult to become proficient in dealing with less than perfect clay but
in the end you will be better off.
Some where in the Hamer book he says "anyone can work with good clay"
I say the pro's do understand the reason for things going wrong and can
adapt. I have seen any number of potters demonstrating their techniques at
workshops - using clays they have never used before and managing quite
well.
I also say - if you think you can do it you improve your chances of doing
it - by an infinite amount.
RR
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
we are very quick to blame our technique, when in fact
the problems we are having are inherit to the clay. this is
a very common cry here on clayart.
..................
>the clay body starts everything. clay is our most important
>tool. if a body is not working, well get another one.
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
HD on sat 19 feb 00
Mel you sound like a Japanese master talking about the "tsuchi aji" ...the
flavor of the clay.
One famous master has over 2000 different clays labeled and stored in his
workshop.
Dan in Tokyo
At 11:15 AM 02/18/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>it is important for many of you that have not had a great deal
>of experience in working with clay bodies to understand that
>you do not buy a ready made clay and expect that it will be
>able to do everything you want.
>
>just listen to tom wirt, a full time potter talk of clay.
>he has spent several years doing research on a regular
>basis to find a clay body that will work for him.
>
>you acquire clays to do special jobs.
>if you are going to hump throw all day..make it a
>way of working...why would you use a clay that
>consistently s-cracked?.....i would look at the clay body
>first, and then adjust it.
>
>we are very quick to blame our technique, when in fact
>the problems we are having are inherit to the clay. this is
>a very common cry here on clayart.
>
>pop outs, bloating, s cracks, line cracks are often the fault
>of the clay, because of being forced to do things that it cannot do.
>of course technique can be the cause of problems, often...but
>not always.
>
>the clay body starts everything. clay is our most important
>tool. if a body is not working, well get another one.
>
>the vendors cannot be everything to everyone. they make in most
>cases,clays that have a broad range of purpose. you have to deal with that.
>what will work for a simple school program may not work for you.
>
>i have felt over the years that my walker pug mill is my best tool.
>i am one of those funny fellows that never throws pots from boxed
>clay. it all goes in the pug mill. every set of pots i make gets a
>sorta careful study...then i make the clay to suit it.
>
>i love sand, grog and open clay. it is how i work. that means that
>the bottoms of my pots are rough...and sometimes the cleaning
>is a pain in the butt.
>
>as a contrast, ron roy's porcelain pieces are like jewels, and that
>is his style. and his research into clay that works to make those
>jewels has been extensive. it is not an accident.
>
>so, study clay.
>see how it works, change it, experiment.
>but, please do not expect a certain clay body to do everything.
>
>about as close as you can come to general purpose clay is
>a very open body, sand, grog, fireclay, base clay (goldart like),
>ball clay. it can throw,
>hand build, and be used for sculpture. if slow bisque fired it will
>not bloat or crack.
>
>most new potters love the feel of slick clay, no smell, right
>from the box. as you mature you approach clay like fine wine.
>old, aged, mellow, made for what you eat..fish, meat, burgers.
>
>mel/mn
>
>i use continetal clay stoneware
>add sand and grog
>cracked taconite pellets/(iron ore, processed)
>add ochre to need. (been using more and more this year.)
>
>recylce/ add small amounts of dry
>continental stoneware, sand and grog.
>( i also use minnesota clay for ceramic chemicals,
>and a variety of purchases. )
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>from minnetonka, minnesota, u.s.a.
Daniel P. Considine, Ph.D.
Waseda University
102 Century Mansion
4-23-11 Irumagawa
Sayama City, Japan, 350-1305
Ph/Fax (81) 0429 54 2401
Cell (keitai) 0908 105 8750
I started with nothing
and I still have most of it left.
elizabeth priddy on mon 21 feb 00
I agree. I think that how well you can handle
a bad clay, glaze, wheel, kiln, student...is a
good indicator of how good you are, not how bad
the thing in question is.
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
On Sat, 19 Feb 2000 20:25:06 Ron Roy wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I'm not really disagreeing with Mel here but there are many ways to deal
>with clay. If you are not interested in understanding why clay does what it
>does - or improving your techniques then switching clays may be the only
>answer. You also have to realize that every time your change clays you can
>expect differences in glaze fit, melting and colour in glazes. It may seem
>difficult to become proficient in dealing with less than perfect clay but
>in the end you will be better off.
>
>Some where in the Hamer book he says "anyone can work with good clay"
>
>I say the pro's do understand the reason for things going wrong and can
>adapt. I have seen any number of potters demonstrating their techniques at
>workshops - using clays they have never used before and managing quite
>well.
>
>I also say - if you think you can do it you improve your chances of doing
>it - by an infinite amount.
>
>RR
>
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>we are very quick to blame our technique, when in fact
>the problems we are having are inherit to the clay. this is
>a very common cry here on clayart.
>..................
>
>>the clay body starts everything. clay is our most important
>>tool. if a body is not working, well get another one.
>
>
>Ron Roy
>93 Pegasus Trail
>Scarborough
>Ontario, Canada
>M1G 3N8
>Evenings 416-439-2621
>Fax 416-438-7849
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Helvi Abatiell on mon 21 feb 00
In a message dated 2/18/00 11:16:52 AM, melpots@pclink.com writes:
<< if a body is not working, well get another one. >>
Too bad this doesn't work for human bodies.
Norman van der Sluys on mon 21 feb 00
When I was first learning to throw we used two bodies in the studio. One was a
stoneware clay that was very easy to work with - good wet strength and very
forgiving - and an earthenware clay formulated for making tiles and not very
plastic. We made pots on the wheel with this one too, and not knowing any
better, I worked and worked until I could get it to do what I wanted it to do.
I wasn't supposed to be able to do that, I was told. The experience has held me
in good stead. I learned much about handling clay from it and my stoneware work
improved dramatically each time I returned to it.
Norman van der Sluys
elizabeth priddy wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I agree. I think that how well you can handle
> a bad clay, glaze, wheel, kiln, student...is a
> good indicator of how good you are, not how bad
> the thing in question is.
> ---
> Elizabeth Priddy
>
> email: epriddy@usa.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
> Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
>
> On Sat, 19 Feb 2000 20:25:06 Ron Roy wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >I'm not really disagreeing with Mel here but there are many ways to deal
> >with clay. If you are not interested in understanding why clay does what it
> >does - or improving your techniques then switching clays may be the only
> >answer. You also have to realize that every time your change clays you can
> >expect differences in glaze fit, melting and colour in glazes. It may seem
> >difficult to become proficient in dealing with less than perfect clay but
> >in the end you will be better off.
> >
> >Some where in the Hamer book he says "anyone can work with good clay"
> >
> >
> >I also say - if you think you can do it you improve your chances of doing
> >it - by an infinite amount.
> >
> >RR
> >
> >>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >we are very quick to blame our technique, when in fact
> >the problems we are having are inherit to the clay. this is
> >a very common cry here on clayart.
> >..................
> >
>
> >Ron Roy
> >93 Pegasus Trail
> >Scarborough
> >Ontario, Canada
> >M1G 3N8
> >Evenings 416-439-2621
> >Fax 416-438-7849
> >
>
> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
| |
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