Richard Selfridge on wed 23 feb 00
Dannon and all,
Just a short note about our possible reluctance in promoting sainthood for
Judy Chicago as a feminist clay artist. About two years after the first
showing of the Dinner Party,(middle 70's) Judy gave a talk here in Edmonton
and showed the fine film about its making "Right Out of History; The Making
of Judy Chicago's Dinner Party" by Johanna Demetrakas. Carol and I enjoyed
the film and found that it portayed Chicago as much more of an organizer
than a maker.
The tapestries were amazing in part because the wonderful women who made
them stitched themselves nearly blind to realize Chicago's designer
visions. When faced with her complex designs they just worked longer. The
man who headed up the clay team however had a great deal of trouble
executing her complex modeling designs. He was very frustrated but helpful.
She wanted the porcelain to conform to her "design will" with major
cracking and firing problems. Some of the plates were remaid up to six times.
Her disdain for the material was summed up in her answer to my question.
"How do you see The Dinner Party fitting into the history of "clay" art
done in many cases by women? She answererd in front of an audience of
about 300, "F--- clay, it is just another material". Since The Dinner
Party, I don't think she has done any major clay projects. She certainly
has had an impact and has played a major role in writing women artists into
history, but as a feminist "clay" artist I think you can look for better
role models.
Richard Selfridge
http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/selfridg
At 01:02 PM 2/22/00 -0700, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>At 04:27 PM 2/21/00 EST, you wrote:
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>......>the definition of "feminist" is a person who advocates equal rights
for
>>women. ......>
>>
>>PS Judy Chicago's book and project "The Dinner Party" is fabulous!! As I
>>recall, this was a large collaborative project, using the talents and
>>expertise of many women.......
>
>Yes, it did indeed use the talents and expertise of many women. They
>did not get the/any credit for it, though - not by name. And not much
>money, either. "Judy Chicago" took that.
>Also took un-asked liberties with the names of a number of women,
>living and dead, in titling the various settings. The dead ones
>could hardly object, (though one can imagine the reclusive Emily
> Dickinson's response) but a number of the living ones found it
>intrusive, her use of their names - without permission- presumptuous
>& embarrassing. Certainly it was a reputation - maker, though. And
>a striking piece.
>
>regards
>
>Dannon Rhudy
>potter@koyote.com
>
>
mary simmons on thu 24 feb 00
Judy Chicago certainly has her faults, large ones from what I hear. I have
NOT heard anyone suggesting that she be cannonized. Nor have I heard of
anyone elevating Chicago to the position of a role model. I felt inspired
by her work, but not by her ways of dealing with all the people that helped
bring the Dinner Party about.
Our quilt collective, by the way, fell apart after 5 years, because some of
the women thought that the woman who bankrolled our projects had too much
say in what we did.
sigh
Whatever her personal problems in inter-communications, the Dinner Party is
still a great tribute to women. I am sure she did not conceive of this as
a clay project, though PART of it involved clay, and I don't care what she
thinks about clay, though it certainly is crude to use the f word in public
speaking.
Y'know, Frank Lloyd Wright was a big jerk, yet he HAS been cannonized as
one of the world's greatest architects.
Lots of artists are jerks, which doesn't make their art bad, it just means
they are jerks. It is always disappointing to find out that someone who
did something wonderful is after all just a human fool. I always want
him/her to be a better person than I am.
I would never want to work with Chicago--she is too abusive and
egotistical. But the Dinner Party is still a great work of feminist art,
that is, art that promotes the wonderfulness of women.
my as usual humble opinion
Mary
Elca Branman on thu 24 feb 00
Whether feminist or ball-bearing,the work has to speak for itself,
without hype or spin or lectures..
If the work requires the crutches of interpretation or commentators, it's
disabled..(PC language used, please note)
Gentle Elca, in Sarasota Fla
elca@home.com
> but as a feminist "clay" artist I think you can look for
>better
>role models.
>
>Richard Selfridge
>>At 04:27 PM 2/21/00 EST, you wrote:
>>>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>>......>the definition of "feminist" is a person who advocates equal
>rights
>for
>>>women. ......>
>>>
>>>PS Judy Chicago's book and project "The Dinner Party" is fabulous!!
>As I
>>>recall, this was a large collaborative project, using the talents
>and
>....
>>
>
>
"Judy Chicago" took that.
>>Also took un-asked liberties with the names of a number of women,
>>living and dead, in titling the various settings. The dead ones
>>could hardly object, (though one can imagine the reclusive Emily
>> Dickinson's response) but a number of the living ones found it
>>intrusive, her use of their names - without permission- presumptuous
>>& embarrassing. Certainly it was a reputation - maker, though. And
>>a striking piece.
>>
>>regards
>>
>>Dannon Rhudy
>>potter@koyote.com
>>
>>
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Lyla Kaplan on fri 25 feb 00
that's a real bummer hearing that, yet it doesn't detract from "the dinner
party" being a monumental piece. what is wonderful about art is that it
can transcend the banal, selfish, egotistical, strange, twisted, or weird
human who made it and who will certainly never be called a "role model",
i.e. look at kurt cobain, edgar allen poe, even woody allen (who loves to
address that issue). i won't name any potters, cause all the ones i know
are wonderful!! :)
lyla
>"How do you see The Dinner Party fitting into the history of "clay" art
>done in many cases by women? She answererd in front of an audience of
>about 300, "F--- clay, it is just another material". Since The Dinner
>Party, I don't think she has done any major clay projects. She certainly
>has had an impact and has played a major role in writing women artists into
>history, but as a feminist "clay" artist I think you can look for better
>role models.
>
>Richard Selfridge
>http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/selfridg
>
>At 01:02 PM 2/22/00 -0700, you wrote:
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>At 04:27 PM 2/21/00 EST, you wrote:
>>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>......>the definition of "feminist" is a person who advocates equal rights
>for
>>>women. ......>
>>>
>>>PS Judy Chicago's book and project "The Dinner Party" is fabulous!! As I
>>>recall, this was a large collaborative project, using the talents and
>>>expertise of many women.......
>>
>
>
>>Yes, it did indeed use the talents and expertise of many women. They
>>did not get the/any credit for it, though - not by name. And not much
>>money, either. "Judy Chicago" took that.
>>Also took un-asked liberties with the names of a number of women,
>>living and dead, in titling the various settings. The dead ones
>>could hardly object, (though one can imagine the reclusive Emily
>> Dickinson's response) but a number of the living ones found it
>>intrusive, her use of their names - without permission- presumptuous
>>& embarrassing. Certainly it was a reputation - maker, though. And
>>a striking piece.
>>
>>regards
>>
>>Dannon Rhudy
>>potter@koyote.com
>>
>>
>
>
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