Heidrun Schmid on sat 11 mar 00
This thread has been going on now for a while and finally I decided I
want to give my little bit of experience too,: The floor in my small
studio is concrete, very smooth and I have sealed it with clear floor
wax. This is repeated twice a year, the floor is easy to clean just like
it had been tiled.
Heidrun Schmid in Bangkok where the cool summer days are over.
edez18@pop.erols.com on thu 9 aug 01
I used a sealer for my cement floor. It shed water but retained clay dust. All the hard scrubbing in the world did not r=
emove the clay. Now I would like to put on an impervious coating like polyurethane. The Duron people insist that the s=
ealer prevents the use of epoxy or poly coatings. Removal of the sealer is very expensive. Any experience out there? So=
meone suggested that I put on multiple coats of sealer.
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karen terpstra on fri 10 aug 01
I walked into a HUGE mess when I came to La Crosse to teach. The studio
floor had not been touched with a sealer for 20 years. Now I have it
done every summer and find it is getting much easier to keep clean. The
only draw back is that it is really slippery when wet.
Karen Terpstra
I used a sealer for my cement floor. It shed water but retained clay
dust. All the hard scrubbing in the world did not r=
emove the clay. Now I would like to put on an impervious coating like
polyurethane. The Duron people insist that the s=
ealer prevents the use of epoxy or poly coatings. Removal of the sealer
is very expensive. Any experience out there? So=
meone suggested that I put on multiple coats of sealer.
Holder, Samuel on fri 10 aug 01
Sealing my cement floor is coming up!!! What type/brand of sealers are you
using? What do you feel is the best?
-----Original Message-----
From: karen terpstra [mailto:kterpstra@CENTURYTEL.NET]
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 6:48 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: STUDIO FLOOR
I walked into a HUGE mess when I came to La Crosse to teach. The studio
floor had not been touched with a sealer for 20 years. Now I have it
done every summer and find it is getting much easier to keep clean. The
only draw back is that it is really slippery when wet.
Karen Terpstra
I used a sealer for my cement floor. It shed water but retained clay
dust. All the hard scrubbing in the world did not r=
emove the clay. Now I would like to put on an impervious coating like
polyurethane. The Duron people insist that the s=
ealer prevents the use of epoxy or poly coatings. Removal of the sealer
is very expensive. Any experience out there? So=
meone suggested that I put on multiple coats of sealer.
____________________________________________________________________________
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Robert Dye on sat 11 aug 01
I am in the process of covering my studio floor with concrete stain. The
directions say that if your floor has already been painted or sealed, you
should go through an etching process, but I asked around and was told not
to worry, just paint it on. It looks very nice and is easier to keep
clean, but insufficient experience to judge the durability. The product
came from Home Depot, Behr brand
karen terpstra on sat 11 aug 01
A couple of you have asked about the sealer for the cement floor we use
at school. I will find out more info from the custodians when I see
them next week. I will post it later in the week as I will be off line
for a few days.
Karen Terpstra
Nancy Udell on thu 4 nov 04
I may be going way beyond the pale (and budget) here, but my fantasty =
studio floor slopes oh so slightly down to a nice drain so that when I =
hose down my floor the water goes right in. Oh yes, and I'd like a wet =
bar too, please.=20
Nancy
ASHPOTS@AOL.COM on fri 5 nov 04
when i built my studio with the apt above it i put in three 4" drains.. I
thought i would hose the place down often,, I have rolling racks from Sams for
shelving.. I also sealed the concrete floor.. The drains were put in with angles
so the water goes to them,
I really like the drains when i do move all the stuff and hose it down.. It
does work.. The drains go out in the yard. The sealer i used was not as good as
i thought.. When i built my Gallery next my studio i spread 3 colors of
concrete stain as the floor was being finished,, That worked super.. I then used
some really super stinky sealer and that worked great also.. If im ever fealing
ambitious i will strip out all my stuff in the studio , acid wash the floor
and reseal the concrete.
Also if i had been ready to spend big bucks i would have put in a heating
system im the floor under the concrete,, i didnt , but it would have been nice..
Today is the first real day of winter,, guess ill have to start burning in
the wood stove , making ash, Ive saved some cherry , hoping to keep it
separated from the other wood for ash tests
i guess we are going in to withdrawl for the weekend, see you all next Mon,
have a great weekend
Mark
www.lookoutmountainpottery.com
Mark Tigges on fri 5 nov 04
On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 09:25:21PM -0500, Nancy Udell wrote:
> I may be going way beyond the pale (and budget) here, but my
> fantasty studio floor slopes oh so slightly down to a nice drain so
> that when I hose down my floor the water goes right in. Oh yes, and
> I'd like a wet bar too, please.
A wet bar you say? Well, maybe I should take a picture of my studio/garage
for you. I'm an homebrewer as well, so my garage is where I keep my
beer, in kegs, on tap. Three of them sticking out of an old
fridge. Sometimes my pots are crooked.
mlc on mon 8 nov 04
Nancy
in my dream world, after I win the multi-state lottery, the maid will
sluice down the floor while the buttler brings me my drink and nibbles
from the wet bar. and of course the gardner always keeps fresh flowers
on the table holding my throwing water. one of the liveried house men
carries my ware boards full of pots over the the drying racks while
another wedges the clay that the serfs have dug from the hill behind
the Manor house. . I could go on and on.....but you get the idea
Millie in md. the leaves from the mimosa trees in Annapolis are a
wonderful shade of gold this year. walking through them on the streets
(shuffling and scuffing and kicking the leaves) is like walking
through gold coins.
On 4 Nov, 2004, at 9:25 PM, Nancy Udell wrote:
> I may be going way beyond the pale (and budget) here, but my fantasty
> studio floor slopes oh so slightly down to a nice drain so that when I
> hose down my floor the water goes right in. Oh yes, and I'd like a
> wet bar too, please.
>
> Nancy
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
John Jensen on mon 8 nov 04
One problem which I encountered with a drain on my floor, is the
accumulation of clay on the outside. Over time the clay saturates the
ground and makes it impervious. In my case I was draining right onto my
neighbor's yard, creating a small clay river across his driveway; So I =
more
or less plugged the hole and now pump the water out of that corner. =
It's
pretty easy to do and I can direct the water wherever I please...into a
bucket or on to a new patch of soil.
But it is still great to able to hose the place down. I have all tile
floors and curbs to keep the water where it should be.=20
What is a wet bar, exactly? As opposed to a dry bar? =20
I'm going down to the river maybe by and by; cause the river's wet and =
Beale
St. done gone dry. (W.C. Handy)
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
John Jensen@mudbugpottery.com
http://www.toadhouse.com www://www.mudbugpottery.com
-On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at 09:25:21PM -0500, Nancy Udell wrote:
> I may be going way beyond the pale (and budget) here, but my
> fantasty studio floor slopes oh so slightly down to a nice drain so
> that when I hose down my floor the water goes right in. Oh yes, and
> I'd like a wet bar too, please.
Janet Moe on wed 23 apr 08
Today we will finally finish mudding the drywall and our thoughts are turning to how to finish the floor, a concrete slab. I have been reading through all the great info in the archives and am leaning towards epoxy hoping for a permanent finish once and for all. I have two questions.
What are the differences between one part and two part epoxy?
Is there a problem with the epoxy finish being too slippery when wet?
OK, one more question... Has anyone used the BEHR Concrete Stain? What is it like?
Thanks again for all the help and information.
Janet, on Vancouver Island, where it has been a lovely dry and sunny, but slightly cool spring.
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Terrance Lazaroff on thu 24 apr 08
Janet;
If your floor is fairly level. I strongly recommend using ceramic tiles.
I have them on my floor and they work great.
Terrance
Nobody Special on thu 24 apr 08
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:54:26 -0700, Janet Moe wrote:
>Today we will finally finish mudding the drywall and our thoughts are
turning to how to finish the floor, a concrete slab. I have been reading
through all the great info in the archives and am leaning towards epoxy
hoping for a permanent finish once and for all. I have two questions.
>
>What are the differences between one part and two part epoxy?
>
>Is there a problem with the epoxy finish being too slippery when wet?
>
>
Janet...
I used the Rustoleum two-part epoxy kit on my studio floor. It is holding
up very well, and is not slippery at all. We also used it on the floor of
our small barn which housed chickens and goats for about five years. It
withstood all of the abuse and grossness that the animals could throw at it.
After wising up and jettisoning the animals, and subjecting the floor to
repeated scraping, bleaching, scrubbing, power washing, and other forms of
de-grossification, the coating came out looking almost like new.
Conversely, we used ordinary floor paint on a section of basement floor, and
it wore through in places after only a short time.
I cannot imagine what "one-part" epoxy is, as it seems that by definition it
cannot be epoxy at all.
Hope it helps.
...James
Tom Brook on thu 24 apr 08
Janet
Just a word of caution. You maybe very healthy with your legs and back right
now but over time a concrete floor is very hard on your muscles and back and
feet. We put a sub floor over ours- very simple -frame it with firring
strips to lift off the concrete floor and cover with particle board and
cover with some cheap linoleum or cover with plywood then seal and paint
with heavy duty waterproof paint. We tried anti-fatigue mats but it did not
really work that great. Adding the sub floor was easy and made a huge
difference in how we felt. It has a very slight give to help absorb shock as
you stand walk sit etc. so your body doesn't constantly have to be striking
a rock hard surface. It is easy to clean.
IF you have never had feet leg,joint or back problems you may not think it
is that important but once you have these problems they are harder to heal
from them then it is to prevent them. And they hurt!!!And no matter how
tough you are they will slow you down or stop you. So please any of you guys
working on concrete pay attention to your body. Hate to see good potters
going down because their bodies end up in a lot of pain when it can be
avoided. Like to see everyone have many happy years of potting. -Tom
Clayart SCtag on thu 24 apr 08
I painted my concrete studio floor woith dedicated gray floor enamel like
paint and it chipped up where it even got light wear.So, I think something
else would be worth a try.
Peggy
Conversely, we used ordinary floor paint on a section of basement floor, and
it wore through in places after only a short time.
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Forrest on thu 24 apr 08
Whatever you do, DON'T buy the epoxy with the grit added to prevent
slipping. Not only does it NOT work for that purpose, but it is a pain to
mop. It just tears the mop head up! Then you have clay and sponge or string
all over. It will also bubble up and create a bare spot if the floor has
any flaws.
Rosemary Forrest
On 4/24/08 7:49 AM, "Nobody Special" wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:54:26 -0700, Janet Moe wrote:
>
>> Today we will finally finish mudding the drywall and our thoughts are
> turning to how to finish the floor, a concrete slab. I have been reading
> through all the great info in the archives and am leaning towards epoxy
> hoping for a permanent finish once and for all. I have two questions.
>>
>> What are the differences between one part and two part epoxy?
>>
>> Is there a problem with the epoxy finish being too slippery when wet?
>>
>>
> Janet...
>
> I used the Rustoleum two-part epoxy kit on my studio floor. It is holding
> up very well, and is not slippery at all. We also used it on the floor of
> our small barn which housed chickens and goats for about five years. It
> withstood all of the abuse and grossness that the animals could throw at it.
> After wising up and jettisoning the animals, and subjecting the floor to
> repeated scraping, bleaching, scrubbing, power washing, and other forms of
> de-grossification, the coating came out looking almost like new.
>
> Conversely, we used ordinary floor paint on a section of basement floor, and
> it wore through in places after only a short time.
>
> I cannot imagine what "one-part" epoxy is, as it seems that by definition it
> cannot be epoxy at all.
>
> Hope it helps.
>
> ...James
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Doric T. Jemison-Ball ll on thu 24 apr 08
Dear Gang:
Try marine deck paint. It is a mix as you go epoxy resin used to paint the
decks on boats and ships. Heat resistant [you can put cigarettes out on it,
hard as iron and wear resistant to the max. It isn't cheap, but it works.
I haven't used it in years so I don't have a vendor handy, but it should b
easy to find on the net. It comes in two parts that you mix and then paint.
I used clear, but I'm sure it comes in at least something basic and opaque.
Test it to see how it adheres to what you have on the floor. You may have to
do some serious prep with TSP or muriatic acid. But it will come with
instructions for prep.
Doric T. Jemison-Ball ll
BBS-LA
14622 Ventura Blvd. #727
Sherman Oaks, CA 91403
707-884-5067 Voice
707-884-4449 FAX
818-606-6678 CELL
buffalo@bbs-la.com
www.bbs-la.com
"You can always cure the sausage that is too long." Susan Gatherers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clayart SCtag"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Studio Floor
>I painted my concrete studio floor woith dedicated gray floor enamel
>like
> paint and it chipped up where it even got light wear.So, I think
> something
> else would be worth a try.
> Peggy
>
> Conversely, we used ordinary floor paint on a section of basement floor,
> and
> it wore through in places after only a short time.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used
> car
> listings at AOL Autos.
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
Carl Finch on thu 24 apr 08
Here's a message that I found posted to a home repair news group some time
ago. For concrete floors, PREPARATION is everything!
===========from alt.home.repair 2/22/04============
I've lurked and learned from this newsgroup so want to give back by relaying
my experience and tips after epoxying my garage floor.
I epoxied my garage floor with Benjamin Moore's Industrial Maintenance
Coatings, 2-part epoxy, M36/M39 Polyamide Epoxy Gloss Coating .
The results were spectacular in terms of finish and I have had no hot-tire
lifting at all. Most dirt just sweeps off. Oils just come up with a paper
towel. This is impressive given that I had a previous 'paint' (supposedly
some new type of epoxy) done by a contractor. Not only did it lift under
car tires, it lifted under a bicycle tire!
Here is what I did and learned.
1. Prep is critical, as all the brochures say. While my prior coating came
up easily in some places, it did not in others. I ended up renting a Hilti
hand-held grinder-vac at Sunbelt Rental and grinding the entire floor. It's
a hands-and-knees job, and time consuming, but it took me down to bare
concrete and also removed some of the bumps and splotches from a lousy
concrete job. Wear knee pads and ear protection. I actually used the small
foam ear plugs underneath a noise-attenuating headset. And wear eye
protection because of the concrete dust thrown by the grinder.
My hope for your sake is that you don't have any prior paint and don't
have to go through a similar grinding step.
2. Then I washed with TSP and rinsed several times.
3. Then came the muriatic acid etch. It's not as scary as you'd think;
just follow the directions.
But here's a TIP for an issue that I've not seen described anywhere.
Move all iron and steel things out of the garage. If you can't do that wrap
them in plastic. Even the fumes of the muriatic acid makes steel rust very
badly. Tools I had hanging on the wall were covered with rust the following
day.
The second part of the wash with muriatic acid is to neutralize it with
a solution of baking soda. For the concentration mixtures of the acid and
baking soda solution follow instructions provided with the muriatic acid, or
seek someone with experience in a paint store.
3. Then let it dry several days. Use the trick of taping a piece of
plastic over a couple square feet of floor overnight. If it's completely
dry in the morning the floor is probably dry enough. (If water never ceases
to appear under the plastic you've got a water source coming up through the
concrete. If so, paint or epoxy are not going to work, so hang it up.)
4. Then I thought the floor was sufficiently prepared as I was down to bare
concrete everywhere. I was wrong. The test of adequately clean concrete is
to put a drop of water on the surface. It should quickly spread out and be
absorbed. In my several tests I did the water drops penetrated instantly.
A day later I buy the epoxy (which I had tinted). I got home and did the
water drop test again for no reason other than that it made me feel great to
see the water drops instantly penetrate the concrete, given the horrible
condition of the floor I started with. I tapped a few drops on and suddenly
one of them just sat there on the surface. Panic! I then proceeded to get
on my hands and knees and do the droplet test every couple of inches over
the entire garage floor. More places where it didn't absorb, and I put
pieces of sticky notes in each location. When I was done the sticky notes
mapped out areas corresponding almost exactly to where the car tires rest.
In those places water did not absorb. This was shocking because not only
did the concrete look like knew I had ground off the surface with the
grinder. It appears that the petroleum products that are either in the
tires or are picked up from the roads are then pressed onto the concrete and
absorbed. I subsequently did research and read in places that oils and
paints may penetrate to as deep as 3/4 inch in some circumstances.
So I ground those places deeper with little effect but I wasn't about to
grind 3/4 of an inch because then I'd have to patch with concrete, and if I
did that I'd have to wait about 90 days (as I recall) for curing before
applying the epoxy. Finally, not knowing what else to try, I got some
garage floor degreaser at Home Depot and treated those tire areas several
times, as per the label, scrubbing, rinsing well, etc. After several
degreasing cycles the water drops would absorb somewhat in those areas. Not
as well as in all the non-tire areas, but much better than before. For
example, a drop might appear to sit there for 2 seconds, then slowly spread
out and be absorbed. Believing I couldn't improve it further and not really
having any alternatives, I moved on.
[But before doing so, I did another muriatic acid etch (with a higher
concentration) and a baking soda rinse in those areas I had degreased. Then
I waited a few days again for it to dry.]
5. Now time to epoxy. As I said, I used Benjamin Moore's M36+M39. The
paint store may give you 'local wisdom', or experience, or vague guesses.
If you want to double check, Benjamin Moore has corporate technical support
people whom you can call about these products. As it turns out, the owner
of my local Benjamin Moore store had a lot of experience with the product
and was a good source, whereas his employees were not.
You need to know that 2 coats are really recommended to give a good finish.
You may not find this out if you don't talk to the right people, so here's
another tip. As it turns out, the pigment particles in colored epoxies are
larger than the solvent molecules. Epoxy is a strong finish because it
penetrates the crevices (which were caused by the muriatic acid etch) and
when it hardens it 'hooks' into the crevices, which is why it adheres so
well and doesn't lift. But if the penetration into the crevices is impeded,
the epoxy doesn't grab as well so is more likely to lift off. And the
pigment impedes the penetration.
So the officially recommended course is to use a pigment-free first coat.
However, 2 color coats are necessary to give a good finish, so know you'd be
talking about 3 applications (one 'primer' and two color coats) which means
more work and expense.
TIP: You can save one coat by skipping the 'primer' coat and thinning the
1st color coat with epoxy thinner (xylene). [Benjamin Moore sells epoxy
thinner as M95, but I'm pretty sure it's nothing more than straight xylene.]
This is what the owner of the Benjamin Moore store told me. I called the
B/M tech support line and they wouldn't recommend it and said the proper
procedure was the separate 'primer' coat. I went back to the B/M store and
talked to the owner who said that new federal regulations to control
volatile organic compounds (VOCs) don't allow B/M to endorse thinning with
xylene, but that doing so would work just as well as a separate 'primer'
coat. Then I called tech support who admitted they couldn't say much
because of the VOC regulations. So I asked: "If I had come to you before
the VOC regulations and had said that I wanted to thin the first pigmented
coat with xylene and asked you if that would be just as good as using a
separate primer coat would you have said yes?" He said that he would have
said yes. So I got my answer and he remained legal.
My recollection is that I thinned with 1 quart of epoxy thinner (xylene) for
each 2 gallons of epoxy (1 gal of M36 + 1 gal of M39), but I suggest you
check with your paint store.
6. The first application. The obvious means of applying it is rolling it
on, however you can also squeegee it on, which is what I did. The advantage
of using a squeegee is that if you have pits and holes in the concrete
surface you can more nearly fill those with the squeegee than with a roller.
It's fairly easy, but with a fairly smooth concrete surface a roller would
be faster.
Another tip: There is a range of recommended thickness for each coat,
but how do you know you're applying to that thickness and not too thin, or
too thick (which would have the added risk of running out)? I basically
marked out areas along one wall with sticky notes every 4 feet, and along a
perpendicular wall every 5 feet, allowing me to estimate 5'x4' sections, or
20 sq ft. I don't remember the recommended coverage for the 2 mixed
gallons, but let's say for example it should cover 600 square feet. So I
have 2 gallons, or 256 ounces to cover 30 20-sq.ft. sections. So, if I
apply 8 ounces per 4'x5' section I'd use 240 ounces, with just 16 ounces
left over -- pretty close to the exact recommended coverage. (I
intentionally neglected to account for 32 ounces of thinner in the first
coat, as I didn't know if it would add exactly that much volume, and I
wanted to be conservative so I didn't run out.) Anyway, you get the idea.
Do the math to your particular situation.
Then I scooped 8 ounces in a glass cup and drizzled it around each 4'x5'
section and then squeegeed it to cover. (Or in the case of the 2nd coat,
rolled it to cover.) Use a glass cup because xylene eats through plastic.
7. Second coat. It should be ready for a second coat the next day. I
waited until the 2nd day for the second coat. This one I rolled on. I did
not add particulate matter to create an anti-skid surface. I live in the
south where snow and ice are not an issue. Slight wetness hasn't caused a
problem, thought I can see that if you had standing water with smooth-soled
shoes it might be. The downside of sand or some other anti-skid material is
the high points will show wear sooner as the epoxy is abraided from the
points of the sand.
That's it. Wake up the morning after your second coat and go be stunned by
your great garage floor.
Now I feel like I've given something back. I hope this helps someone.
=============end=============
--Carl
in Medford, Oregon
Nobody Special on fri 25 apr 08
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:10:59 -0700, Carl Finch wrote:
>Here's a message that I found posted to a home repair news group some time
>ago. For concrete floors, PREPARATION is everything!
>
>===========from alt.home.repair 2/22/04============
>
>I've lurked and learned from this newsgroup so want to give back by relaying
>my experience and tips after epoxying my garage floor.
>
>
Wow, that's a lot of work. The Rustoleum brand didn't call for any of that
prep. I just swept and vacuumed the floor, rolled on one coat, and
sprinkled the color chips. Done. Sticking like glue, even where the
tractors were parked. Did the same thing in the chicken barn. 7 or 8 years
later, after lots of use, still stuck like glue and looking good.
I'm sure he did it "right" and I did it wrong, but stuck is stuck, right?
FWIW.
...James
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