Ray Aldridge on sun 12 mar 00
At 03:55 PM 3/10/00 EST, James Bowen wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>------------------
>It sems to me that this thread is very much related to ones on pricing
pots and
>what Warren MacKenzie charges for his.
>I believe that the value of an object is what the owner of said object
puts on
>it at any given time in relation to what function the owner is using it. I
will
>not pay more than say ten dollars for a coffee cup, regardless of how
beautiful
>I may think it to be. They get used daily and broken frequently.
I don't mean to be critical of James, but I find this to be an unfortunate
attitude, especially for a fellow potter. It limits you to only the
simplest of mugs, if handmade, and you are expecting the potter who makes
it to work for a wage that many burger flippers would find demeaning.
25 years ago, I could make a simple mug and sell it for $5 and make a
little money-- not much, but I was young and willing to suffer for my art.
That 1975 $5 is now worth a fair amount more than $10. I could not
possibly afford to make the mugs I'm now making, if customers were only
willing to pay $10. They are of porcelain, fluted, slipped and resisted,
with sgraffito. The wholesale price would be only $5, and with cost of
firing, materials, overhead, etc., I would be making much less than minimum
wage. This would be true even if my mugs were substantially less elaborate.
The other thing that bothers me about James' statement is the implication
that a frequently-used pot should be cheap because there is a risk of
breakage. It seems to me that the pot you touch intimately every morning
ought to be the best pot you can afford, and not the cheapest. If you love
the pot, you'll use it carefully. My wife has a favorite mass-produced
Japanese mug she's used every day for 30 years and it still isn't broken.
Inflation is a fact. 15 years ago you could buy a nice mug for $10 and
feel good about the deal. You still can buy a $10 mug, but unless it's
from someone like MacKenzie, who puts artificially low prices on his simple
pots, or from another potter who doesn't need the money, you are taking
advantage of a person who does not understand the value of her labor.
Times change. No one expects the auto dealer or the dentist to accept the
same prices that prevailed 15 years ago, but somehow we tend to think of
artists in a different way. That's wrong and destructive.
If you think $10 is the most anyone should get for a handmade mug, then you
should wander into an upscale gift shop sometime. There you'll find lots
of mass-produced Italian earthenware mugs for $24 and up.
It seems to me that a beautiful handmade mug ought to fetch almost as much,
but until we potters get enough nerve to properly price our pots, we'll
continue to exist on the margins. And many of us will grow discouraged and
leave the profession. The world will be the poorer for it.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Terrance Lazaroff on mon 13 mar 00
-Original message----------------------------
At 03:55 PM 3/10/00 EST, James Bowen wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>------------------
>It sems to me that this thread is very much related to ones on pricing
pots and
>what Warren MacKenzie charges for his.
>I believe that the value of an object is what the owner of said object
puts on
>it at any given time in relation to what function the owner is using it. I
will
>not pay more than say ten dollars for a coffee cup, regardless of how
beautiful
>I may think it to be. They get used daily and broken frequently.
I suggest that James read my article "Pricing my Turn" found at: HREF="http://members.xoom.com/Zalt56.1/">Zalt's Web Page
I also suggest that he also go to:
http://www.dismal.com/toolbox/cpi_index.stm to find out what $5 in 1975 is
worth today.
Terrance Frank Lazaroff
St Hubert, Quebec
patrick conrey on mon 13 mar 00
I GET VERY ANGRY WHEN A POTTER SETS UP AT AN ART FEST. AND STARTS SELLING
MUGS FOR $4 TO $5 . THAT PERSON IS NOT ONLY ACTING AS A SLAVE BUT WANTS
ME TO DO THE SAME. MY GRANDFATHER STARTED WORKING IN THE COAL MINES AT
AGE 10 FOR 75 CENTS A DAY BUT THIS BOY AINT THAT HUNGRY!
Dale A. Neese on tue 14 mar 00
I have been selling my mugs for $12 each for 10 or more years. I believe it
is a very fair price for handmade mug. I get a little peeved when someone
asks if I will take less. Or spends 30 minutes trying to perfectly match two
mugs in size and to the color of their kitchen curtains. If they want them
exactly the same, K-Mart sells them. Cheaper too.
Dale Tex
elizabeth priddy on tue 14 mar 00
There is always the possibility that they
are a trained production potter and can make
a profit off of that $5 mug. I can't sell for
that in a gallery, but if it is just me,
I might have it as a type of loss leader, or
something that children can afford. Don't
assume everything is about and for you!
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:00:15 patrick conrey wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I GET VERY ANGRY WHEN A POTTER SETS UP AT AN ART FEST. AND STARTS SELLING
>MUGS FOR $4 TO $5 . THAT PERSON IS NOT ONLY ACTING AS A SLAVE BUT WANTS
>ME TO DO THE SAME. MY GRANDFATHER STARTED WORKING IN THE COAL MINES AT
>AGE 10 FOR 75 CENTS A DAY BUT THIS BOY AINT THAT HUNGRY!
>
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Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Cantello Studios on wed 15 mar 00
My question is. Would these mugs look any different if this potter made say
15 per hr.? Just think if you could get 10 dollars for one. Then 7 per hr.
at 15 each. Then 4 at 20 each. You do the math and guess what you make more
money selling 4 then 30 and that does not even take into account the money
you save in clay, glaze, gas, and back pain moving those 30 mugs around.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of elizabeth priddy
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:17 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Cheap mugs
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
There is always the possibility that they
are a trained production potter and can make
a profit off of that $5 mug. I can't sell for
that in a gallery, but if it is just me,
I might have it as a type of loss leader, or
something that children can afford. Don't
assume everything is about and for you!
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:00:15 patrick conrey wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I GET VERY ANGRY WHEN A POTTER SETS UP AT AN ART FEST. AND STARTS SELLING
>MUGS FOR $4 TO $5 . THAT PERSON IS NOT ONLY ACTING AS A SLAVE BUT WANTS
>ME TO DO THE SAME. MY GRANDFATHER STARTED WORKING IN THE COAL MINES AT
>AGE 10 FOR 75 CENTS A DAY BUT THIS BOY AINT THAT HUNGRY!
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Norman van der Sluys on thu 16 mar 00
A good friend of mine and a fine potter used to tell me "There are two ways to
make a million at pottery; sell one pot for a million dollars, or a million
pots for one dollar. Both methods take about the same time."
Norman van der Sluys
Cantello Studios wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> My question is. Would these mugs look any different if this potter made say
> 15 per hr.? Just think if you could get 10 dollars for one. Then 7 per hr.
> at 15 each. Then 4 at 20 each. You do the math and guess what you make more
> money selling 4 then 30 and that does not even take into account the money
> you save in clay, glaze, gas, and back pain moving those 30 mugs around.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
> Of elizabeth priddy
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:17 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: Re: Cheap mugs
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> There is always the possibility that they
> are a trained production potter and can make
> a profit off of that $5 mug. I can't sell for
> that in a gallery, but if it is just me,
> I might have it as a type of loss leader, or
> something that children can afford. Don't
> assume everything is about and for you!
>
> ---
> Elizabeth Priddy
>
> email: epriddy@usa.net
> http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
> Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
>
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:00:15 patrick conrey wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >I GET VERY ANGRY WHEN A POTTER SETS UP AT AN ART FEST. AND STARTS SELLING
> >MUGS FOR $4 TO $5 . THAT PERSON IS NOT ONLY ACTING AS A SLAVE BUT WANTS
> >ME TO DO THE SAME. MY GRANDFATHER STARTED WORKING IN THE COAL MINES AT
> >AGE 10 FOR 75 CENTS A DAY BUT THIS BOY AINT THAT HUNGRY!
> >
>
> --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
amy parker on thu 16 mar 00
Last summer, at a Southern Highland Craft Guild shop in NC, I purchased a
mug for $27, made by Christopher Rumme. He does exquisite brushwork over a
base glaze - I have no idea how long this takes him for a mug, but it must
take a minimum of 5 minutes (would take me 5 hours). What I really WANTED
was one of his $300 large platters, but since I am a starving artist, I had
to content myself with the mug.
At the same time, my husband purchased a porcelain mug, very thin and finely
thrown, that had been dipped at angles into three different colors with a
clear coat over all. I can't read the marks on the bottom, so I am unsure
of the artist. This mug was priced at $12.50 at the same shop. I could
glaze about 40 of these in an hour, although I don't think my porcelain will
ever be as finely thrown!
I considered both of these mugs to be incredibly cheap for the years of
skill building that went into each one, never mind the production time.
Stunning pieces. If you are ever in NC, be sure to stop at one of the Craft
Guild shops on the parkway!!!
amy parker Lithonia, GA
amyp@sd-software.com
elizabeth priddy on fri 17 mar 00
there is also the factor of greed to consider,
but that is a moral issue and one for each of
us to decide for ourselves.
Greed consumes your soul if you let it,
and then where will your pots come from?
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:45:10 Cantello Studios wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>My question is. Would these mugs look any different if this potter made say
>15 per hr.? Just think if you could get 10 dollars for one. Then 7 per hr.
>at 15 each. Then 4 at 20 each. You do the math and guess what you make more
>money selling 4 then 30 and that does not even take into account the money
>you save in clay, glaze, gas, and back pain moving those 30 mugs around.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
>Of elizabeth priddy
>Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 11:17 AM
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Re: Cheap mugs
>
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>There is always the possibility that they
>are a trained production potter and can make
>a profit off of that $5 mug. I can't sell for
>that in a gallery, but if it is just me,
>I might have it as a type of loss leader, or
>something that children can afford. Don't
>assume everything is about and for you!
>
>---
>Elizabeth Priddy
>
>email: epriddy@usa.net
>http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
>Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
>
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:00:15 patrick conrey wrote:
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>I GET VERY ANGRY WHEN A POTTER SETS UP AT AN ART FEST. AND STARTS SELLING
>>MUGS FOR $4 TO $5 . THAT PERSON IS NOT ONLY ACTING AS A SLAVE BUT WANTS
>>ME TO DO THE SAME. MY GRANDFATHER STARTED WORKING IN THE COAL MINES AT
>>AGE 10 FOR 75 CENTS A DAY BUT THIS BOY AINT THAT HUNGRY!
>>
>
>
>--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
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