Phyliss Ward on wed 29 mar 00
Some questions regarding food safety of glazes...
Is there anyway of knowing whether a particular glaze is food safe just
by looking at it?
Do we have a list somewhere of glazes that have been tested?
If it is clear or white and doesn't contain barium or lead, can we
assume it is safe?
Specifically, does anyone know if Pete Pinnell's cone 6 weathered bronze
green glaze is food safe?
And last but not least, how do I know whether Mason stains are food safe
or not? I have their brochure which lists the colorants...
Thanks,
Phyliss
Dannon Rhudy on thu 30 mar 00
At 06:01 PM 3/29/00 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Some questions regarding food safety
>
.......................................
One cannot tell if a glaze is food-safe just by looking.
With experience one can make an educated guess, but that's
as close as looking will get you.
There are numerous glazes that have been tested, some
say so. In Val Cushing's handbook are a number of
glazes, and the ones that have been tested say so.
Pinnell's Weathered Bronze glaze is not a good candidate
for use INSIDE utilitarian wares. It has 5 or 6 per cent
copper, and is a soft matt glaze. If you use it, line
with something else.
Mason stains - well, it would depend how they were used,
and in what percentages, and WHICH ones. They are all
different.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
John Hesselberth on thu 30 mar 00
Hi Phyliss,
Here are some brief answers to your questions. I have a lot more
detailed discussion of this subject on my web site. From my home page
just go to the section on glaze stability
Phyliss Ward wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Some questions regarding food safety of glazes...
>
>Is there anyway of knowing whether a particular glaze is food safe just
>by looking at it?
No. I can show you two glazes that look virtually identical. One is
stable; the other is quite unstable on exposure to weak acid.
>
>Do we have a list somewhere of glazes that have been tested?
On my web site (URL in my signature line below) there are about 15-20
cone 6 glazes. I now have a couple cone 10 ones which I will post soon.
The list will grow as more people share their results with me and as I do
more testing myself. Go to
http://www.frogpondpottery.com/glazetest.html
to learn how to have your own glazes tested at modest cost.
>
>If it is clear or white and doesn't contain barium or lead, can we
>assume it is safe?
Weeelll, maybe, maybe not. I'm not overly eager to get a belly full of
lithium or boron, neither of which color a glaze. While you probably
won't seriously poison anyone if your criteria are met, you still might
have a glaze that comes apart in the diswasher or on exposure to acids in
food and, therefore, is completely unsatisfactory as a functional glaze.
Loius Katz, just today, sent me some info on a glaze that meets your
criteria and was seriously eaten away by exposure to Ivory soap.
>
>Specifically, does anyone know if Pete Pinnell's cone 6 weathered bronze
>green glaze is food safe?
I haven't seen it tested, but a Clayart member has told me she will test
it this Spring. I'm sure she will post the results when she gets them.
On the other hand, how about testing it yourself. Never hurts to have
several sets of results on a given glaze. In fact it is my opinion that
everyone should take responsibility for being certain their glazes made
from their raw materials and applied and fired by them are stable.
>
>And last but not least, how do I know whether Mason stains are food safe
>or not? I have their brochure which lists the colorants...
You have to test the resulting glazes and make up your own mind at this
stage of our knowledge. Again, visit my web site for a more thorough
discussion.
Regards, John
John Hesselberth
Frog Pond Pottery
P.O. Box 88
Pocopson, PA 19366 USA
EMail: john@frogpondpottery.com web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com
The only things in life that are certain are death and taxes; however
only taxes come once a year. Anonymous
Alison Hamilton on thu 30 mar 00
Hi Phyliss,
You're asking some important questions about glaze safety and it's great
to see that issue being raised. It comes up from time to time and while
I definitely can't answer many of your questions, I know the archives
will have some of the answers. Perhaps others will address some of your
questions and/or correct me on my answers if they're wrong.
> Is there anyway of knowing whether a particular glaze is food safe just
> by looking at it?
If only! and it sure would make our lives a LOT easier!! :)
The problem is that oxides leaching out of a glaze may only occur under
certain conditions, like an attack from something acidic, pasta sauce,
for example (or Neo Citran, as happened to a friend of mine). You have
no way of knowing this is occurring unless the taste is strong enough to
make it through the food.
A preliminary test for this is to leave your glaze sample sitting in a
cider vinegar soak for 24 hours at room temperature - make sure you have
a control sample which does not endure the soak to compare it to
afterwards. Look at the vinegar sample and see if it has lost any
colour or gloss, or whether the vinegar has changed colour. Using a
magnifying glass with a strength of 10x will help.
If your glaze is short on silica, it is more vulnerable to attack by an
acid and as far as I know, there's no way of telling this just by
eyeballing a pot.
However, even if you don't observe any changes in your samples, it
doesn't necessarily mean that your glaze isn't leaching. John
Hesselberth is encouraging potters to send samples of their glazes to
Alfred Laboratory for testing and to pass on the results to him. He has
posted these results on his website.
For example, I just tested Xavier's Warm Jade Green from his website
specifically because it had been tested at Alfred and found to not leach
much copper. It's really great info to have (thanks John, and Xavier!)
and it is a lovely glaze.
> If it is clear or white and doesn't contain barium or lead, can we
> assume it is safe?
Perhaps you can assume that it's not toxic, but that doesn't mean you
won't be getting your mineral quota (and beyond) for the day from it.
This issue has received much debate on clayart. Perhaps a summary of
the two positions would be those who question whether potters should be
in the business of prescribing minerals to their customers versus those
who say that the issue has been blown out of proportion and there is
minimal risk, if any.
I think the bottom line is that YOU have to be comfortable with whatever
you're putting on your pots and be able to explain that position to
customers who might ask. You also have to decide what chemicals you
want sitting around your studio in terms of your own health issues
regardless of how well they're held in suspension in a glaze.
I'm sure you'll hear other people's take on this and undoubtedly I will
too if I got it wrong! :)
Good luck,
Alison Hamilton
Trout Lake
Dorset, Ontario
Dave Finkelnburg on thu 30 mar 00
Phyliss,
John Hesselberth is your best source of information on this.
The short answer is, no, there is no way of knowing for sure short of
having your glaze tested. I say your glaze, because the ingredients you use
and how you fire can affect how foodsafe the glaze is. The recipe isn't
the whole answer.
I heard John speak at NCECA. He made the point that glaze recipes
falling within limit formulas don't guarantee they will be foodsafe.
Regarding Pinnell's C6 Weathered Bronze glaze, I believe it was posted
to the list some time back with the comment that when it was presented in
Ceramics Monthly, it was as a sculptural glaze, not recommended for food
surfaces. It uses 5% copper carbonate. John Hesselberth mentioned that
from testing he has seen, copper is probably the hardest metal to keep from
leaching from a glaze.
The Weathered Bronze also calculates as an extremely high expansion
glaze, which means it should craze like mad on most clay bodies. I don't
mean to offend all the aficionados of crazed glaze, just trying to point out
the facts.
Hope this helps!
Dave Finkelnburg in Idaho watching big spring snowflakes falling
gently on the porch
-----Original Message-----
From: Phyliss Ward
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 4:11 PM
Subject: food safety
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Some questions regarding food safety of glazes...
>
>Is there anyway of knowing whether a particular glaze is food safe just
>by looking at it?
>
>Do we have a list somewhere of glazes that have been tested?
>
>If it is clear or white and doesn't contain barium or lead, can we
>assume it is safe?
>
>Specifically, does anyone know if Pete Pinnell's cone 6 weathered bronze
>green glaze is food safe?
>
>And last but not least, how do I know whether Mason stains are food safe
>or not? I have their brochure which lists the colorants...
>
>Thanks,
>Phyliss
>
Ron Roy on tue 4 apr 00
Hi Phyliss,
No - there is absolutly no way you can tell if a glaze is durable from
looking at it - neither can you tell if there is any potential toxic
release into food.
There are some glazes at John Hessleberths home page that have been tested.
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
This does not mean they are completely safe on your clay body however - if
the glaze winds up too big for the body there can be shivering - and that
is a hazard.
Without barium and lead is a good start - lithium should be on the list. It
is the amount of these oxides released that is the important factor here.
There are plenty of materials available that are not a problem - there was
a list made up once - does anyone have it? I must be somewhere.
Any glaze that has metalic metal oxides floating on the surface is not
durable - what metals are there determins the effect on the user.
The safety of stains has to do with the tosins present and the durability
of the glaze over them - and how you fell about the issue. There are
government criteria for lead and cadmium.
RR
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Some questions regarding food safety of glazes...
>
>Is there anyway of knowing whether a particular glaze is food safe just
>by looking at it?
>
>Do we have a list somewhere of glazes that have been tested?
>
>If it is clear or white and doesn't contain barium or lead, can we
>assume it is safe?
>
>Specifically, does anyone know if Pete Pinnell's cone 6 weathered bronze
>green glaze is food safe?
>
>And last but not least, how do I know whether Mason stains are food safe
>or not? I have their brochure which lists the colorants...
>
>Thanks,
>Phyliss
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
John Baymore on thu 6 apr 00
------------------
(snip)
There are plenty of materials available that are not a problem - there was
a list made up once - does anyone have it? I must be somewhere.
(clip)
Ron,
Monona Rossol put one out a while back....... maybe she'll respond.
BEst,
.....................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JBaymore=40compuserve.com
John.Baymore=40GSD-CO.com
=22Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop August 18-27,
2000=22
Gavin Stairs on fri 7 apr 00
------------------
Hi John,
You may be thinking of the one compiled by Ron Roy a few years ago. It is
included in a short essay on the topic of safety for schools and others
that Tony Hansen has posted at his Magic of Fire site. Try the link below.
Gavin
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/stairs.htm
And here's the list:
=22As a preliminary guide, here is a list (originally from Ron Roy):
=B7 All clays except Barnard (Black Bird) which has a fair bit of MnO2
=B7 Bentonite
=B7 All feldspars including Cornwall Stone and Neph Sy.
=B7 Silica
=B7 Whiting
=B7 Tin oxide
=B7 Zinc Oxide?
=B7 Frits 3110, 3124, 3134, 3195, 3278, 3269. (there are many more but
these are the ones I use - all have some boron.) (sic)
=B7 Iron oxide, Rutile and Titanium Dioxide
=B7 Dolomite
=B7 Gerstley Borate
=B7 Talc
=B7 Wollastonite
=B7 Zircopax
=B7 Strontium Carbonate (has a small amount of Barium 1 to 2=25)
=B7 Magnesium Carbonate
=B7 Bone Ash
=B7 Soda Ash (soluble)
=B7 Encapsulated stains? =22
At 02:56 PM 4/6/00, you wrote:
=3E----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3E------------------
=3E(snip)
=3EThere are plenty of materials available that are not a problem - there =
was
=3Ea list made up once - does anyone have it? I must be somewhere.
=3E(clip)
=3E
=3ERon,
=3E
=3EMonona Rossol put one out a while back....... maybe she'll respond.
=3E
=3EBEst,
=3E
=3E.....................john
=3E
=3EJohn Baymore
=3ERiver Bend Pottery
=3E22 Riverbend Way
=3EWilton, NH 03086 USA
=3E
=3E603-654-2752 (s)
=3E800-900-1110 (s)
=3E
=3EJBaymore=40compuserve.com
=3EJohn.Baymore=40GSD-CO.com
=3E
=3E=22Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop August 18-27,
=3E2000=22
Ron Roy on thu 13 apr 00
------------------
I hope everyone noticed the question mark after encapsulated stains. I'm
not sure some of them would pass government standards. There is free
cadmium in those stains - if you dad an unstable glaze and enough of that
stain in it you might find yourself in violation of the standards.
Keep in mind - Cadmium is very toxic and the allowable limits are very
small. It is one thing for industry to use those stains - they can afford
the testing necessary to stay in the limits but we are much greater risk
because of the economics.
I should add CadyCal to this list - but is it really safe in all
consentrations? I'm not sure - RR
=3E----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3EYou may be thinking of the one compiled by Ron Roy a few years ago. It =
is
=3Eincluded in a short essay on the topic of safety for schools and others
=3Ethat Tony Hansen has posted at his Magic of Fire site. Try the link =
below.
=3E
=3EGavin
=3E
=3Ehttp://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/stairs.htm
=3E
=3EAnd here's the list:
=3E
=3E=22As a preliminary guide, here is a list (originally from Ron Roy):
=3E=B7 All clays except Barnard (Black Bird) which has a fair bit of =
MnO2
=3E=B7 Bentonite
=3E=B7 All feldspars including Cornwall Stone and Neph Sy.
=3E=B7 Silica
=3E=B7 Whiting
=3E=B7 Tin oxide
=3E=B7 Zinc Oxide?
=3E=B7 Frits 3110, 3124, 3134, 3195, 3278, 3269. (there are many more =
but
=3Ethese are the ones I use - all have some boron.) (sic)
=3E=B7 Iron oxide, Rutile and Titanium Dioxide
=3E=B7 Dolomite
=3E=B7 Gerstley Borate
=3E=B7 Talc
=3E=B7 Wollastonite
=3E=B7 Zircopax
=3E=B7 Strontium Carbonate (has a small amount of Barium 1 to 2=25)
=3E=B7 Magnesium Carbonate
=3E=B7 Bone Ash
=3E=B7 Soda Ash (soluble)
=3E=B7 Encapsulated stains? =22
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Don & June MacDonald on fri 14 apr 00
Could anyone please tell me what cadycal actually is? My supplier
doesn't stock it anyway, but I keep seeing references to this substance
with no other information.
Thanks.....June
Ron Roy wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> I hope everyone noticed the question mark after encapsulated stains. I'm
> not sure some of them would pass government standards. There is free
> cadmium in those stains - if you dad an unstable glaze and enough of that
> stain in it you might find yourself in violation of the standards.
>
> Keep in mind - Cadmium is very toxic and the allowable limits are very
> small. It is one thing for industry to use those stains - they can afford
> the testing necessary to stay in the limits but we are much greater risk
> because of the economics.
>
> I should add CadyCal to this list - but is it really safe in all
> consentrations? I'm not sure - RR
>
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >You may be thinking of the one compiled by Ron Roy a few years ago. It is
> >included in a short essay on the topic of safety for schools and others
> >that Tony Hansen has posted at his Magic of Fire site. Try the link below.
> >
> >Gavin
> >
> >http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/stairs.htm
> >
> >And here's the list:
> >
> >"As a preliminary guide, here is a list (originally from Ron Roy):
> >7 All clays except Barnard (Black Bird) which has a fair bit of MnO2
> >7 Bentonite
> >7 All feldspars including Cornwall Stone and Neph Sy.
> >7 Silica
> >7 Whiting
> >7 Tin oxide
> >7 Zinc Oxide?
> >7 Frits 3110, 3124, 3134, 3195, 3278, 3269. (there are many more but
> >these are the ones I use - all have some boron.) (sic)
> >7 Iron oxide, Rutile and Titanium Dioxide
> >7 Dolomite
> >7 Gerstley Borate
> >7 Talc
> >7 Wollastonite
> >7 Zircopax
> >7 Strontium Carbonate (has a small amount of Barium 1 to 2%)
> >7 Magnesium Carbonate
> >7 Bone Ash
> >7 Soda Ash (soluble)
> >7 Encapsulated stains? "
>
> Ron Roy
> 93 Pegasus Trail
> Scarborough
> Ontario, Canada
> M1G 3N8
> Evenings 416-439-2621
> Fax 416-438-7849
Norman van der Sluys on wed 19 apr 00
6. While a panel of toxicologists could come up with better standards
for
ceramic leaching--and almost surely will one day, at present the best
solution is to use the EPA water quality standards as guides. People
today
are buying bottled water so they can drink less polluted water than that
which is available in cities whose water barely passes these standards.
So
in general, I think we should not be responsible for exposing people,
without their knowledge, to food and drink which may contain pollutants
at
levels above what would be allowed by EPA in a rather bad municipal
water
supply. It's not great toxicology, but it is common sense.
Monona,
If Glass and ceramic products inevitably leach metals into foods what
are the alternatives? Is it really "safer" to eat from paper plates and
drink from paper cups? How about wax and plastic coatings, and foam
plastic cups? Polycarbonates? Are there not contaminants other than
metals that can affect health and we need be concerned about?
I think the anger you sensed in response to your early posts on this
thread were due to a real fear that legislation will eventually be
passed that reduces the potter's options still further. Lead has gone
away for us, barium is at the least very politically incorrect, lithium
conjures up the spectre of mental illness. Are we to be denied the use
of aluminium and iron as well? And are you really giving the public a
choice when you point out a small potential hazard in one material
without offering an alternative?
Of course it is beyond the scope of any one individual to make
definitive statements about such a broad and complex subject as "what is
safe to eat from", but as potters we need to know not only the dangers
involved in the use of our products but also their safety relative to
available alternatives. The current attitude that we should minimise
risk at all costs looms as potentially very risky for some vocations!
--
Norman van der Sluys
-in idyllic Western Michigan where at least one Yankee is trying to make
speakers of "The King's English" more at ease with his spelling choices.
ferenc jakab on thu 20 apr 00
, lithium
> conjures up the spectre of mental illness.
It's my understanding that Lithium cures mental illness rather than causes
it.
Feri.
Kent / Pat on sat 22 apr 00
Feri
Lithium only marginally controls SOME mental illnesses. It does not cure
them. In fact, as a medicine, under careful observation, it has turned some
lives around. But Lithium Carbonate can be highly toxic to the liver and
possibly other organs.
I know that the concentration in therapeutic doses of lithium is much higher
than would probably be encountered in our use of the ware, but I'm not so
sure when making glazes. Inappropriate safety measures (Mask and gloves)
night open the glazemaker up to a world he/she would wish that they had not
encountered (Liver replacement).
Just some thoughts from a former spouse one who thought if one was good,
then two would be better.
Pat Porter
pporter@4dv.net
http://geocities.com/windy_pines_2000/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "ferenc jakab"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Food Safety
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> , lithium
> > conjures up the spectre of mental illness.
>
> It's my understanding that Lithium cures mental illness rather than causes
> it.
> Feri.
primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM on mon 6 aug 01
Much as I would hate to get a reputation as a henny-penny -- and despite the fact that my housekeeping creates health hazards requiring a hazmat team -- I have to chime in here.
Once upon a time, butcher blocks were made of wood. Blood, fat, etc. soaked down into the wood where it could not be cleaned up; it grew all kinds of cooties. While a lot of people dropped over from so-called "bowel complaints", most folks survived and passed on their resistance.
Once upon a time, before refrigeration, folks used all kinds of spices and peppers to disguise the flavor of rancid meat, and ate stuff we wouldn't feed to a dog in this era.
But so did their mothers, and they inherited resistance to a lot of that stuff, and from exposure to it in small doses while young and healthy. In developing nations people drink who live there from open ditches and their systems can handle it. (Tourists can end up in the hospital from eating unwashed fruit.) Amoebic dysentery ain't pretty.
But this is today and here is what has changed:
1.) Most of the meat we eat has been raised from birth on large doses of antibiotic, to increase survival rates with factory farm overcrowding. With the advent of BGH, which causes mastitis in cows, the presence of antibiotics in cow's milk has increased as well.
2.) Day cares and early schooling have led to an unprecedented level of widespread antibiotic use from infancy on, to battle ear infections and other communicable ailments common to children. (Many of which are viral to begin with, but get antibiotic treatment "just in case".)
5.) Formula companies convinced much of the american -- and global -- public that human milk is not the best choice for human babies, so too many babies miss out on the antibodies transferred in breastmilk; the colostrum milk in the few days after birth is equal to 50 shots of gammaglobulin, and provides a protection irreplaceable by modified cows milk in a bottle.
4.) Marketing has played up fear of germs -- which, as you say, has been exaggerated -- to the point where antibacterial soaps, toys, plastics, napkins, countertops, sponges, etc. are everywhere.
The result of these three developments is that fewer people have exposure and thus resistance to certain germs, and that antibiotic resistant strains will be the only ones to survive the barrage of antibiotics in #1 and #2. At least this is the fear of many medical professionals.
My life is a regular petrie dish: my kids dig in compost, walk in chicken manure, forget to wash hands, eat veggies/fruit out of the garden. We have dinner scraps fed to the chickens, eggs found in the bushes, and general sloppy housekeeping. Not to mention the various clay molds and whatever grows in my wet basement... I like to think I'm innoculating my family against the overly-sterile world that puts us at risk.
Not everybody has a dishwasher and microwave, by the way. And folks might use that lovely crazed platter to carry the raw factory chicken out to the grill, then pile the cooked chicken back on the same platter to carry it in the house. Salmonella, e.coli, you name it, it's out there. My butcher friend is horrified at the thought of meat packing plants irradiating meat, as he is already horrified with the sloppiness of processing and predicts it will increase with this so-called "safeguard".
Like anything else: We can choose to take risks for ourselves, after calculating our knowledge of the subject and the strength of our immune systems. But we can't assume that old aunt Betty undergoing chemo, or somebody's baby being spoon-fed from a crazed bowl, have made the same kind of informed opinion.
I even hate to send this because I know it sounds paranoid... I don't live as cautiously as I argue, but I'm only deciding for me and mine...
I'm butting out of this topic now! Yours, Kelly in Ohio
_________________________________________________________________
iVillage.com: Solutions for Your Life
Check out the most exciting women's community on the Web
http://www.ivillage.com
Richard Jeffery on tue 7 aug 01
I hadn't picked up on irradiated meat - thanks for that little snippet....
I did want to add that more recent research has found that wood (chopping
boards, etc) does have a degree of natural bactericide that plastic has not.
Environmental Health folk have had to backtrack on that, apparently.
Doesn't mean you never need to clean them, but it's not as bad as initial
simplistic risk analyses suggested....
Richard
Bournemouth UK
www.TheEleventhHour.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM
Sent: 06 August 2001 15:18
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: food safety
Much as I would hate to get a reputation as a henny-penny -- and despite the
fact that my housekeeping creates health hazards requiring a hazmat team --
I have to chime in here.
Once upon a time, butcher blocks were made of wood. Blood, fat, etc. soaked
down into the wood where it could not be cleaned up; it grew all kinds of
cooties. While a lot of people dropped over from so-called "bowel
complaints", most folks survived and passed on their resistance.
Once upon a time, before refrigeration, folks used all kinds of spices and
peppers to disguise the flavor of rancid meat, and ate stuff we wouldn't
feed to a dog in this era.
But so did their mothers, and they inherited resistance to a lot of that
stuff, and from exposure to it in small doses while young and healthy. In
developing nations people drink who live there from open ditches and their
systems can handle it. (Tourists can end up in the hospital from eating
unwashed fruit.) Amoebic dysentery ain't pretty.
But this is today and here is what has changed:
1.) Most of the meat we eat has been raised from birth on large doses of
antibiotic, to increase survival rates with factory farm overcrowding. With
the advent of BGH, which causes mastitis in cows, the presence of
antibiotics in cow's milk has increased as well.
2.) Day cares and early schooling have led to an unprecedented level of
widespread antibiotic use from infancy on, to battle ear infections and
other communicable ailments common to children. (Many of which are viral to
begin with, but get antibiotic treatment "just in case".)
5.) Formula companies convinced much of the american -- and global -- public
that human milk is not the best choice for human babies, so too many babies
miss out on the antibodies transferred in breastmilk; the colostrum milk in
the few days after birth is equal to 50 shots of gammaglobulin, and provides
a protection irreplaceable by modified cows milk in a bottle.
4.) Marketing has played up fear of germs -- which, as you say, has been
exaggerated -- to the point where antibacterial soaps, toys, plastics,
napkins, countertops, sponges, etc. are everywhere.
The result of these three developments is that fewer people have exposure
and thus resistance to certain germs, and that antibiotic resistant strains
will be the only ones to survive the barrage of antibiotics in #1 and #2. At
least this is the fear of many medical professionals.
My life is a regular petrie dish: my kids dig in compost, walk in chicken
manure, forget to wash hands, eat veggies/fruit out of the garden. We have
dinner scraps fed to the chickens, eggs found in the bushes, and general
sloppy housekeeping. Not to mention the various clay molds and whatever
grows in my wet basement... I like to think I'm innoculating my family
against the overly-sterile world that puts us at risk.
Not everybody has a dishwasher and microwave, by the way. And folks might
use that lovely crazed platter to carry the raw factory chicken out to the
grill, then pile the cooked chicken back on the same platter to carry it in
the house. Salmonella, e.coli, you name it, it's out there. My butcher
friend is horrified at the thought of meat packing plants irradiating meat,
as he is already horrified with the sloppiness of processing and predicts it
will increase with this so-called "safeguard".
Like anything else: We can choose to take risks for ourselves, after
calculating our knowledge of the subject and the strength of our immune
systems. But we can't assume that old aunt Betty undergoing chemo, or
somebody's baby being spoon-fed from a crazed bowl, have made the same kind
of informed opinion.
I even hate to send this because I know it sounds paranoid... I don't live
as cautiously as I argue, but I'm only deciding for me and mine...
I'm butting out of this topic now! Yours, Kelly in Ohio
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Valice Raffi on tue 7 aug 01
I remember reading of some tests done on wood cutting surfaces compared to
the new plastic ones and it seems there's something in the wood that helped
sterilise it. The wood ones held fewer germs.
Valice
used to be in the restaurant business
Tommy Humphries on tue 7 aug 01
It does scare me to death, what we as a society has done to ourselves in the
name of sanitation. We have worried in the past about the dangers of germ
warfare, while at the same time reducing out immunity to those everyday
microbes that allow us to function.
Not long ago a friend of mine underwent some minor surgery and contracted
an infection... simple antibiotics would not work so the doctors brought out
the big guns, and with a week of iv administration it cleared up the bugs.
Of course every bacteria in her body was eradicated...good along with the
bad, and being a "green" person (much like Kelly) as soon as she went back
to her old ways her body was bombarded with these bacteria to the extent
that she was tempted to bring her sleeping bag into the bathroom and camp
out.
She did go on the offensive however, drinking lots of non pasteurized
buttermilk and eating home-made yogurt, working her organic garden
barehanded and drinking from her well. Within a couple of weeks she was back
to normal.
What we consider "clean living" is often just the opposite...living with
nature is not "clean" just not nasty.
To paraphrase George Carlin ..." I grew up swimming in the East River...raw
sewage freely dumped there....I am so immune to diseases that I will live
forever!"
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: food safety
> My life is a regular petrie dish: my kids dig in compost, walk in chicken
manure, forget to wash hands, eat veggies/fruit out of the garden. We have
dinner scraps fed to the chickens, eggs found in the bushes, and general
sloppy housekeeping. Not to mention the various clay molds and whatever
grows in my wet basement... I like to think I'm innoculating my family
against the overly-sterile world that puts us at risk.
>
> I'm butting out of this topic now! Yours, Kelly in Ohio
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> iVillage.com: Solutions for Your Life
> Check out the most exciting women's community on the Web
> http://www.ivillage.com
>
Peter Cunicelli on mon 28 nov 05
Hi everyone,
This may seem like a silly question to most of you, but I wanted to ask
just to make sure.
I have a glaze that has barium in it. I know this can't be used on a piece
that will come in contact with food. However, is it ok to use it on a mug
on the outside of the piece with a food safe glaze on the inside?
Just checking.
Thanks in advance.
Peter
(www.petercunicelli.com)
Daniel Semler on mon 28 nov 05
Hi Peter,
There are perhaps several ways to approach this.
1. Have it tested for leaching barium and see what really comes out. Then
you'll know what you're dealing with.
2. If you use it on the outside, and it does leach a bit, keep it away from
the lip of mugs, food contact being the prime concern.
3. Depending on the glaze, get rid of the barium entirely. What sort of glaze
are you using ? Is it a copper red, barium matte, .... ? If you want to
send it
to me offlist I could try suggesting a sub. if you want to test some variants.
DAvid Hendley did an article on Copper Reds removing barium, with no ill
affects. I have been playing with strontium carb. for subbing in a
barium matte
with some success.
Thanx
D
Paul Lewing on mon 28 nov 05
on 11/28/05 12:00 PM, Daniel Semler at daniel@CLAYOSMOS.COM wrote:
> There are perhaps several ways to approach this.
Peter, Daniel's right about that.
>
> 1. Have it tested for leaching barium and see what really comes out. Then
> you'll know what you're dealing with.
That's definitely the best advice.
> 2. If you use it on the outside, and it does leach a bit, keep it away from
> the lip of mugs, food contact being the prime concern.
You'll probably get differing opinions on this, and you'll need to make up
your own mind. Keep in mind that, in order for a glaze to leach anything,
it has to be in contact with a strong acid or alkali for some time. The
professional test is three days in an acid slightly stronger than vinegar.
Saliva won't do it- saliva is almost neutral as far as pH. And momentary
contact won't do it either- it has to sit for a while. I wouldn't hesitate
to put a barium glaze on the outside of a mug, but others might.
>
> 3. Depending on the glaze, get rid of the barium entirely. What sort of glaze
> are you using ? Is it a copper red, barium matte, .... ? If you want to
> send it to me offlist I could try suggesting a sub. if you want to test some
variants. David Hendley did an article on Copper Reds removing barium, with
no ill effects. I have been playing with strontium carb. for subbing in a
barium matte with some success.
It's true that in some glazes, you can just leave the barium out and will
notice no difference. In others you can substitute strontium with not much
noticeable difference. But there are glazes, that electric copper blue
especially, which cannot be made any other way than with barium. Again,
it's your decision whether you want that particular effect bad enough to
deal with the hazards.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Vince Pitelka on mon 28 nov 05
> I have a glaze that has barium in it. I know this can't be used on a
> piece
> that will come in contact with food. However, is it ok to use it on a mug
> on the outside of the piece with a food safe glaze on the inside?
Peter -
Actually, if it is a well-balanced glaze, it is perfectly safe to use on
food-contact surfaces. And in any case it is fine to use on the outside of
a piece that has a known food-safe glaze on the inside.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Peter Cunicelli on tue 29 nov 05
Hey Daniel, Paul & Vince,
Thanks for the information and advice. The glaze is "Best Barium Blue"
from John Britt's book. I really like the results I get from it as is.
I think I'm just going to tell the customer that this glaze is not
available for mugs. I have 48 other glaze combinations (just did a test
tile firing on Saturday) from which he'll find what he likes. One of the
best tiles was the barium blue over Amaco's Bright Red Velvet underglaze.
Peter
(www.petercunicelli.com)
Ron Roy on tue 29 nov 05
Hi Peter,
That glaze is going to leach Barium and copper and everything else in it -
it's just too short of silica to be stable - and it has almost 40% barium
Carb.
Certainly not to be used as a liner glaze for food - I've seen blue glazes
like that with all the copper or cobalt leached out of them - like white.
Leave some vinegar on that glaze over night for a dramatic demonstration -
just leave your test tile standing in a glass of vinegar so it's partially
submerged.
John warns of this in the paragraph below the recipes by the way.
RR
>Hey Daniel, Paul & Vince,
>
>Thanks for the information and advice. The glaze is "Best Barium Blue"
>from John Britt's book. I really like the results I get from it as is.
>
>I think I'm just going to tell the customer that this glaze is not
>available for mugs. I have 48 other glaze combinations (just did a test
>tile firing on Saturday) from which he'll find what he likes. One of the
>best tiles was the barium blue over Amaco's Bright Red Velvet underglaze.
>
>Peter
>(www.petercunicelli.com)
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
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