Earl Brunner on thu 30 mar 00
I must confess that this is a term that is relatively new to
me. I
think I sort of get the gist of it from the context in which
it has
been used on this list recently. I would like to understand
it better.
Could someone offer an explanation or suggest some readings
for me?
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Marcia Selsor on fri 31 mar 00
Read the "Unknown Craftsman " by Yanagi. That is the best explanation I
can imagine.
Marcia in Montana
Earl Brunner wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I must confess that this is a term that is relatively new to
> me. I
> think I sort of get the gist of it from the context in which
> it has
> been used on this list recently. I would like to understand
> it better.
> Could someone offer an explanation or suggest some readings
> for me?
> --
> Earl Brunner
> http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
> mailto:bruec@anv.net
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/spain99.html
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/selsor/welcome.html
Paul Taylor on fri 31 mar 00
Dear Earl
The concept of Mingie is championed by Soetsu Yanagi In his book "The
unknown craftsman" ISBN (US) 0- 87011-948-6. Bernard Leach gives a chapter
to it, towards a standard ,in his Potters book.
The essential Idea is that a certain esthetic purity is linked with
detachment, from motives of approval seeking or the need for inventive
stimulation. Not that the design has to lack invention it is that the focus
of the making is not invention.
Repetition is considered necessary so the pot shape becomes automatic it
just falls off the fingers and the mind empties of concerns of the right or
wrongs. One just "does".
I would like to think my pottery had some of these qualities, it was
always my intention. However am always having my doubts. I suspect that an
even more traditional approach is needed. I am wondering if the western
shapes are sculpturally pure enough to let the Mingei shine through.
Regards Paul T
----------
>From: Earl Brunner
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Mingei
>Date: Thu, Mar 30, 2000, 6:52 pm
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I must confess that this is a term that is relatively new to
>me. I
>think I sort of get the gist of it from the context in which
>it has
>been used on this list recently. I would like to understand
>it better.
>Could someone offer an explanation or suggest some readings
>for me?
>--
>Earl Brunner
>http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
>mailto:bruec@anv.net
Rick Hugel on fri 31 mar 00
MINGEI is made up of two Chinese characters in Japan. The first has the
meaning of "people, nation" while the other has the meaning of "art, craft,
artistic". Together they form a word meaning "folk craft, folk art" which
can include all kinds of things - clothing, furniture, glass, pottery, iron
ware, to name a few - that were once made in the "cottage industry" here in
Japan. There is still a rather large cottage industry remaining, but the
craft people who produce these things have now become specialists in their
individual fields and much of the work they produce is sought after by
connoisseurs and can be rather pricey. Then at the other end of the
specturm there is the mass produced stuff which kind of has the look of
folk craft, but is fairly inexpensive. As in any country, there are those
who like folk craft and those who don't, to say nothing of being able to
afford it. There is a fairly extensive flea market schedule throughout
Japan which are popularly known as "Antique Fairs" and are often held on
the grounds of Temples. Some really great finds can by made, but they
cost, but most of the items are not badly priced. Of course, some of the
items are newly minted using designs of yesteryear and though they may not
be antique, many of them are quite handsome and make wonderful additions to
home furnishings, table ware, or pieces of decor.
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I must confess that this is a term that is relatively new to
>me. I
>think I sort of get the gist of it from the context in which
>it has
>been used on this list recently. I would like to understand
>it better.
>Could someone offer an explanation or suggest some readings
>for me?
>--
>Earl Brunner
>http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
>mailto:bruec@anv.net
Earl Brunner on sat 1 apr 00
There are pots that I make that I would like to think move
in this
direction, there are also pots that I make that go in an
entirely
diffeent direction, very probing and they develop slowly,
They are not "production", repetitive pieces.
Different esthetic I think, I see merit in both. The
attempted end
results are different. It isn't a conflict for me. I
divide my time
between both kinds of pottery. In a way, I think the two
approaches compliment each other and make each other
stronger.
Paul Taylor wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Dear Earl
>
> The concept of Mingie is championed by Soetsu Yanagi In his book "The
> unknown craftsman" ISBN (US) 0- 87011-948-6. Bernard Leach gives a chapter
> to it, towards a standard ,in his Potters book.
>
> The essential Idea is that a certain esthetic purity is linked with
> detachment, from motives of approval seeking or the need for inventive
> stimulation. Not that the design has to lack invention it is that the focus
> of the making is not invention.
>
> Repetition is considered necessary so the pot shape becomes automatic it
> just falls off the fingers and the mind empties of concerns of the right or
> wrongs. One just "does".
>
> I would like to think my pottery had some of these qualities, it was
> always my intention. However am always having my doubts. I suspect that an
> even more traditional approach is needed. I am wondering if the western
> shapes are sculpturally pure enough to let the Mingei shine through.
>
> Regards Paul T
> ----------
> >From: Earl Brunner
> >To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> >Subject: Mingei
> >Date: Thu, Mar 30, 2000, 6:52 pm
> >
>
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >I must confess that this is a term that is relatively new to
> >me. I
> >think I sort of get the gist of it from the context in which
> >it has
> >been used on this list recently. I would like to understand
> >it better.
> >Could someone offer an explanation or suggest some readings
> >for me?
> >--
> >Earl Brunner
> >http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
> >mailto:bruec@anv.net
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Lee Love on sat 1 apr 00
>
> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:24:46 EST
> From: Paul Taylor
>
> I would like to think my pottery had some of these qualities, it was
> always my intention. However am always having my doubts. I suspect that an
> even more traditional approach is needed. I am wondering if the western
> shapes are sculpturally pure enough to let the Mingei shine through.
Paul, I believe the traditional Western shapes are pure enough. Some of
those old English pitchers and slipware are as soulful as any Korean or
Chinese work. I believe it all has to do with the approach you use with
the forms. Because I came to clay from Zen, process is very important to
me. I believe that the clay can shape the maker as the maker shapes the
clay.
I was at a show today in Tokyo of a Sempai (elder fellow student.)
It was held on the second floor of a craft shop in the Ginza district. I
think it was his first big show. I enjoyed it.
There was also modern Onta work on the first floor, some strongly
influenced by Leach & English slipware. I'm planning on working here in
Mashiko when my studies are over and one of the things I hope to work on is
wood fired slipware. It will add some of my Western heritage to the mix.
When these forms were fired in wood, I think they had more warmth.
--
Lee Love
2858-2-2 , Nanai
Mashiko-machi
Tochigi-ken
321-4106
JAPAN
Ikiru@kami.com
John Baymore on mon 3 apr 00
------------------
=3Csnip=3E
I must confess that this is a term that is relatively new to
me. I
think I sort of get the gist of it from the context in which
it has
been used on this list recently. I would like to understand
it better.
Could someone offer an explanation or suggest some readings
for me?
=3Csnip=3E
Earl,
Loosely translated it is =22folkcraft=22 (as opposed to our (USA) more =
typical
usage of =22folkART=22), but in a highly Japanese cultural context. The =
word
is a construct, from two other words, usually attributed to Yanagi Soetsu.
See most all of Bernard Leach's writings on pottery for various references
to the mingei concepts.
In particular see =22The Unknown Craftsman=22 by Yanagi Soetsu, published by
Kodansha (Steve Branfman's Potter's Shop has it). It is probably the
definitive (English) text on the subject.
True mingei works are rapidly vanishing from the world as the global
community grows, information is exchanged, and regionalism, isolation, and
illiteracy decrease. True Japanese mingei in the purest sense of the
concept probably does not exist anywhere in Japan anymore except in museums
and pictures in books as historical works.
People like Bernard Leach, Hamada Shoji, and the like were not, and never
could have been, =22mingei=22 craftspeople....... and were well aware that =
they
were not. Their work was influenced by the characteristics of much
mingei...... sort of =22mingei-like=22......but they were educated, =
self-aware
artist/craftspeople.
Self-awareness/self-consciousness is one =22enemy=22 of the mingei
philosophy....... so as soon as true =22mingei=22 craftspeople are =
identified
and made aware that they are producing mingei...... they are fate-ed to
change the innocent nature of their work and slip out of the ability to
produce pure mingei. Mingei's success was it's doom.
See Brian Moran's book on the sociology of the Onta pottery village for a
good thought or two on this subject (not to mention a good inside look at
the Japanese ceramics world's economics and social structure).
BEst,
......................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JBaymore=40compuserve.com
John.Baymore=40GSD-CO.com
=22Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop August 18-27,
2000=22
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on mon 3 apr 00
Hmm. I just read the original essay written on Mingei and it's meaning to the
Japanese. I am of two minds about it. One mind says that it screams of
"elitism" and "ephetism". The other mind the US like that for years, and not just handmade stuff, but machine-made stuff
like 1930's toasters that were made to look like the empire state building>
understands the importance of preserving these pieces that were made to be used
in everyday life but happen to add enormous beauty to it.
What is "soulful" about these objects? I find great vigor in these everyday
pieces. I have two examples of plain redware applebutter jugs. One is thrown
with perfection...has a lovely lip, perfect shape, etc. The other is a gorgeous
example of a person who was a production thrower, rushing through the run he had
to make. His finger marks are in the bottom as he lifted the pot off the wheel,
and the excitement of this piece is something any would-be artist could aspire
to. Both probably made in the early 1800's.
Is the "soulfulness" what you add to the piece when you look at it? A 'longing
for things past".....that's what the Japanese are preserving as more and more of
their culture turns to plastic and metal. Handwoven bamboo baskets for $2000,
made by the last examplar of a skill that will be lost very soon.....
Perhaps I don't understand this, but isn't this the same as collecting antiques
and understanding their use in everyday life?
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Love [SMTP:ikiru@kami.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 2:31 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Mingei
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:24:46 EST
> From: Paul Taylor
>
> I would like to think my pottery had some of these qualities, it was
> always my intention. However am always having my doubts. I suspect that an
> even more traditional approach is needed. I am wondering if the western
> shapes are sculpturally pure enough to let the Mingei shine through.
Paul, I believe the traditional Western shapes are pure enough. Some of
those old English pitchers and slipware are as soulful as any Korean or
Chinese work. I believe it all has to do with the approach you use with
the forms. Because I came to clay from Zen, process is very important to
me. I believe that the clay can shape the maker as the maker shapes the
clay.
I was at a show today in Tokyo of a Sempai (elder fellow student.)
It was held on the second floor of a craft shop in the Ginza district. I
think it was his first big show. I enjoyed it.
There was also modern Onta work on the first floor, some strongly
influenced by Leach & English slipware. I'm planning on working here in
Mashiko when my studies are over and one of the things I hope to work on is
wood fired slipware. It will add some of my Western heritage to the mix.
When these forms were fired in wood, I think they had more warmth.
--
Lee Love
2858-2-2 , Nanai
Mashiko-machi
Tochigi-ken
321-4106
JAPAN
Ikiru@kami.com
Earl Brunner on tue 4 apr 00
Thanks to you and others, I have ordered the book by Yanagi.
Hummmm, sounds suspicously like humility, if you think you
have it,
you don't.
John Baymore wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> Earl,
> ...............> Self-awareness/self-consciousness is one "enemy" of the minge
>
>
> John Baymore
> River Bend Pottery
> 22 Riverbend Way
> Wilton, NH 03086 USA
>
> 603-654-2752 (s)
> 800-900-1110 (s)
>
> JBaymore@compuserve.com
> John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com
>
> "Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop August 18-27,
> 2000"
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Aiko Ichimura on thu 6 apr 00
Hello,
It's been covered by many people by now. I thought it might be some use to
visit the below URL
http://www.trocadero.com/stores/blueandwhiteamerica/pages/amingei.htm
Aiko Ichimura
NW DC 20036 USA
aikop@erols.com
----- Original Message -----
From: John Baymore
To:
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 5:51 PM
Subject: Mingei
Lee Love on sun 10 sep 00
Speaking of Mingei, (I know the topic is boring to some people.) Would
anybody be interested in a Mingei/Folkcraft oriented email list, one for the
discussion of folk craft inspired pottery?
From the begining of my entry into the process of clay, I've
concidered myself in the Mingei (Yanagi/Hamada/Leach) lineage. We had
some giants in the first generation and also gifted people in the second
generation, but I am afraid that my generation has not picked up the slack
is further distilling and developing what the movement means to the modern
potter. There is hardly any writing I am aware of, from the generations
after the first and second ones (if you know of some, please point me to
them!) I know there are a few things written by people associated with
Warren MacKenzie.
If you are interested, let me know. I'll sign you up. You
don't necessarily have to be a Japanese/Asian influenced potter/artist.
You only need an interest in folkcraft, perenial art and its influence on
the modern person working in clay. I also need to explain, that from my
perspective, being Mingei influenced is not dependent upon how much you
charge for your pots, wether you call yourself an artist or a craftsmen, or
if your stuff is funky or elaborately decorated. It has more to do with
what inspires you and strong attention to process, materials and
craftmenship.
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
Help E.T. Phone Earth: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
Jim Bozeman on sun 10 sep 00
Lee, If you create a listserve about mingei I would be interested in signing
on. I suppose my own work falls within the mingei movement. I produce
folk/craft pottery with clay that I hand dig and then screen. I also hand
gather most of my glaze materials from nature. It is rewarding for me. Most
academically trained potters look down on my work as too lowly. "Mere folk
pottery". I find this amusing because almost all of them have to support
themselves in a non ceramic related job and make their "art" on the side.
Let me know what comes of your idea, Jim Bozeman
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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Steve Slatin on sun 12 jun 05
Lee --
AFAIK, even saying "the founders of Mingei ..." shows
a lack of understanding of Mingei. After all, Mingei
wasn't founded, was it? It was simply a term that
Yanagi Soetsu coined to describe the traditional
crafts, right? Skills and methods developed over time
by unnamed craftsmen, etc. etc.?
The ribbing aside, de Waal is an authentic voice, a
talented potter, and a good writer. You can certainly
dispute anything (or everything) that he writes, but
you can't very well say that he hasn't walked the
walk. (To do so would be as unfair as it is to
condemn Leach for being insufficiently steeped in UK
traditions.) And if his conclusions are different
from yours, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're
wrong, does it? Only a complete narcissist would make
that argument.
Sincerely -- Steve Slatin
--- Lee Love wrote:
> Just got back from Tokyo. We went to see the
> Nippon Hangain Woodblock
Steve Slatin --
Frail my heart apart and play me little Shady Grove
Ring the bells of Rhymney till they ring inside my head forever
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
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Lee Love on sun 12 jun 05
Just got back from Tokyo. We went to see the Nippon Hangain Woodblock
print show at the Tokyo Metropolitan Museum. We saw high levels of
skill and technique, but were disappointed by the lack of inspired work.
I am not an expert on all Japanese culture but I know something
about mingei from apprenticing within its system and from practicing
its principles in my own workshop. My knowledge is not academic.
So it is like nails on a blackboard when I hear people
getting it wrong. Maybe to some, it is simply an academic argument,
but to me, it is like someone saying "Yo Mama!" ;^)
Vince, you never address ANY of the information I provide about
the topic we are discussing. I will try to make it clear:
1. Mingei is not about making Japanese pots. It is not about
"Oriental" pots. It is not about mocking Asia. The founders of Mingei
did not encourage their students to make "Oriental pots." In fact,
Both Hamada and Yanagi told Leach he should make English slipware
influenced work and not Asian influenced stoneware. Leach, in
turn, told MacKenzie that he shouldn't make Japanese influenced
pots. You can read the letters in the Kodansha book about MacKenzie
(I will provide quotes later.)
There are several aspects of mingei:
a.) the preservation of local/traditional craft in the face of
global industrial materialism and the throw-away society. I is not just
concerned about Japan or Asian culture, but with local culture around
the world. This global and cosmopolitan perspective cannot be missed
if you ever visit Hamada's reference museum or see the full collection
at the Mingeikan. There is a two volume large format catalog of
Hamada's collection that shows many more works than what can be put out
to show at any one time. His collection is from folkcraft from around
the world.
The founders of mingei were strongly influenced by William Morris.
Hamada's world view was impacted by the craftsmen at Ditchling. The
weaver Ethel Mairet, the Podmores, The Fishly plates at their homes,
Eric Gill and his community helped mold Hamada's world view. What he
saw at Ditchling was what made him think he should live in Mashiko when
he returned to Japan, gather old Minka farmhouses and Oya stone Kura
storehouses, and live in an integrated rural community like he
experienced in England. Hamada's seeing the arts and crafts movement
in England helped him formulate a lifestyle in Japan conducive to mingei
principles. It helped him create the studio artist potter in Japan.
Yanagi, Leach, Hamada and the folks around them had a very
cosmopolitan and diverse point of view about the world.
b.) developing an approach for modern studio potters, helping
them to recapture universal aspects of these works
in an original and authentic way.
Mingei is an obscure and has only a very small following and
impact upon the ceramic world as a whole. But it seems that for some
reason, its existence is thought of by some people, to question their
rationale for their work. I don't believe it has to be this way. A
diversity of approaches is essential for the growth of creativity.
Actually, De Waal and other folks should really ask the
living people who are practicing Mingei principles today, rather than
dissecting the dead who cannot respond. There are serious areas
where I disagree with both Yanagi and Leach. I don't agree with
Yanagi's view of "The Noble Savage" and I think Leach was blind to the
strength of the diversity of American culture. I'd be happy to speak
about the specifics of these disagreements.
I am working on an article for publication that will be more in
depth. I will let you know when it is available. It is a small
glimpse into the book I am working on.
--
李 Lee Love 大
愛 鱗
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
Lee Love on tue 14 jun 05
Steve Slatin wrote:
>AFAIK, even saying "the founders of Mingei ..." shows
>a lack of understanding of Mingei. After all, Mingei
>wasn't founded, was it? It was simply a term that
>Yanagi Soetsu coined to describe the traditional
>crafts, right? Skills and methods developed over time
>by unnamed craftsmen, etc. etc.?
>
>
Steve, you illustrate the main fallacy De Wall is
perpetrating, even if you are only joking.
Folks mix up the mingei folkcraft that was rapidly disappearing
during the founders' time (what they were trying to preserve), with the
artist/craftsmen who were inspired by this work. De Waal also puts
a stereotype on people who are inspired by Leach and Hamada, that they
don't talk about their work or the reason for doing it. That is
simply not accurate. If there is a lack of voices, it is not because of
unwillingness to speak up, but rather, because of the few numbers of
people working in this school.
De Waal is under the misconception, that if you don't art
that fits into the "fine art" mold", you don't know how to speak about
it. I can't help but think he bases this idea on some kind of
misplaced stereotype of the "inscrutable oriental." But, if you
have ever studied in a discipline that is based in the cultures the
mingei aesthetic was drawn out of, for example: with a Zen master, a
Tibetan teacher, a Chinese Chi Kung Sifu or a Chinese Wing Chun Sifu,
you know that these people are very articulate in transmitting what they
know. You can't judge the culture by the Kung Fu T.V. series or Mr.
Miyagi in Karate Kid. ;-)
> And if his conclusions are different
>from yours, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're
>wrong, does it? Only a complete narcissist would make
>that argument.
>
While I disagree with his opinions, my main disagreements are
with his facts. He misrepresents what the original mingei inspired
artists were about. I illustrated the number one fallacy above and
also his misconception about the mingei inspired potter being
inarticulate. An example of an articulate and credentialed
spokesman is Warren MacKenzie. I have reported here, attending a
panel discussion moderated by Tatsuzo Shimaoka between Warren and Sori
Yanagi, where MacKenzie defended "art" as being an integral part of the
mingei inspired movement.
The other factual misunderstandings are:
1. /That mingei influenced artist copy Asian work/. This is not a
part of the school, as evident in Yanagi and Hamada's criticism of Leach
not following the path of English slipware and Leach's criticism of
MacKenzie because Leach thought MacKenzie's work was "too Japanese."
2. /That Leach has no right making Asian influenced work./ Leach was
born in Hong Kong, lived in China and Japan until he was 10 and then
went back after school and spent his formative years as a young artist
in Japan. Culture is not genetic. Leach had every right to draw on
his life for his influences.
3. / That mingei prefers copying over originality./ Hamada and Leach
both spoke about how copying is not enough. As Hamada said,
tradition is simply a foundation, but the modern craftsman/artist must
digest the tradition and make something new out of it. People are
under the mistaken assumption that Hamada came to Mashiko and copied
Mashiko ware. That is far from the case. Mashiko made crockery and
teapots. Hamada used the local materials, but he used the techniques
in original ways and made forms that were influenced by pots from around
the world.
Those are the main facts I dispute. I'd greatly enjoy
discussing any of them. Once we get those away, then we can discuss
"opinions."
--
? Lee Love ?
? ?
in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://hankos.blogspot.com/ Visual Bookmarks
http://ikiru.blogspot.com/ Zen and Craft
"With Humans it's what's here (he points to his heart) that makes the difference. If you don't have it in the heart, nothing you make will make a difference." ~~Bernard Leach~~ (As told to Dean Schwarz)
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