David Hendley on sat 1 apr 00
For several years our good friend Wendy Rosen has
been pointing out how much glass artists earn for
their work and how little potters earn. Again this
year, at her marketing breakfast at the NCECA
conference, she spoke on the subject, and came up
with several reasons why art glass sells for so much
more than art pottery.
One of her 'reasons' is that men buy most of the
high-priced glass, while women buy most pottery.
Thinking about this the last few days, I find the
notion particularly appalling, but probably true. Women
are certainly 80-to-90 percent of my customers.
I think this might also help explain why 'kitchen and
tabletop' pottery tends to sell for less than 'vessels'
that are displayed in the living room; the kitchen is
the woman's domain, and men have traditionally had
the money and the power.
I would be most interested to hear others thoughts
about this.
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
Tim Lynch on sun 2 apr 00
Just off the top of my head thinking, to me it would seem more likely that
clay, with its roughness and tactile presentation would be considered
"Masculine" and smooth, bright and colorful glass would be the more
"feminine" consideration. Apparently not so. I admit that most of my
customers are female and that 100% of the galleries where my wares are sold
are female owned. I am surely not complaining.
Maybe the "masculinity" of glass has to do with how it is perceived. I
mean, how many times have you seen a full-length special on PBS on a
particular potter? I don't recall any. If there is one, let me know so I
can get the tape. On the other hand, how many times has a particular glass
artist been featured on the same network? I can think of two, "Chihuly Over
Venice," and the latest one, for which the title escapes me but is about his
installation in Jerusalem. You get to see the glass being formed with a
crew of mostly men. It's hot, sweaty, grueling "manly" work, eh?
Glass is the artform of the hour. My glass blowing friends make much more
money than I do. They have tour full tour busses pull up to the studio,
watch the glass being made and buy something on the way out. The process is
the marketing. Even my favorite pottery supply house is starting to sell
glass supplies.
--
Tim Lynch
The Clay Man
1117 Tedford St SE
East Wenatchee, WA 98802-5254
509-884-8303
lynch.t@mail1.wsd.wednet.edu
----------
>From: David Hendley
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Masculine glass vs. feminine clay
>Date: Sat, Apr 1, 2000, 11:25 AM
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> For several years our good friend Wendy Rosen has
> been pointing out how much glass artists earn for
> their work and how little potters earn. Again this
> year, at her marketing breakfast at the NCECA
> conference, she spoke on the subject, and came up
> with several reasons why art glass sells for so much
> more than art pottery.
> One of her 'reasons' is that men buy most of the
> high-priced glass, while women buy most pottery.
> Thinking about this the last few days, I find the
> notion particularly appalling, but probably true. Women
> are certainly 80-to-90 percent of my customers.
> I think this might also help explain why 'kitchen and
> tabletop' pottery tends to sell for less than 'vessels'
> that are displayed in the living room; the kitchen is
> the woman's domain, and men have traditionally had
> the money and the power.
>
> I would be most interested to hear others thoughts
> about this.
> --
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> hendley@tyler.net
> http://www.farmpots.com/
>
Cindy Strnad on sun 2 apr 00
David,
I think you're right about women buying most of the pottery. Now, even
though women are more able to earn equivalent money than ever, and more
likely to have exclusive control of that money, we still tend to buy less
expensive art than men. All my high priced pieces have gone to men, and most
of the rest go to women.
I read a study on this somewhere--don't remember where, maybe CM. The upshot
was that women buy more, but less-expensive items and men buy fewer, more
expensive items. Probably a residual of the male-dominated culture. It's
amazing how long these old habits hang on.
I spent some time in Jamaica and had the privilege of talking to a leading
anthropologist there. She explained that in Jamaica, most of the
professionals (doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc.) are women. That's not just
because all the male professionals left during that nation's brief
experiment with communism. According to her, it's a hang-on from slave days.
Men were encouraged to father many children on many different women and
marriage was forbidden. This, to increase the production of new slaves, of
course. A man's worth came from how hard he could work and how many children
he could father. A woman's responsibility was to raise those children to a
viable age, and as you might imagine, women had to be quite ingenious to
succeed at this daunting task. In Jamaica, women have always had all the
responsibility. They pretty much still do, even though the culture is
radically different from what it was during the time of slavery.
So, it may be quite a long time before women begin spending high dollars on
pottery.
Cindy
(Considering moving exclusively into the high-dollar art arena after reading
David's letter. I'd have to hire a respectable-looking male to sell
my pottery, though, now wouldn't I?)
Cindy Strnad
earthenv@gwtc.net
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
DinaH on sun 2 apr 00
I'm a woman and I buy glass. I'd pay $100 for an "art goblet" but I
wouldn't pay that much for a clay goblet. Why? I don't have any idea. I
collect one of a kind glass goblets. I love to look at them. Maybe its
the mystery of glass (mystery to me) and I think, I could make that clay
goblet. (Which I probably couldn't.)
Of course this doesn't answer why the non potter feels this way but I
can't believe women don't have enough control over joint money that they
can only afford "kitchen" things.
Dinah
David Hendley wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> For several years our good friend Wendy Rosen has
> been pointing out how much glass artists earn for
> their work and how little potters earn. Again this
> year, at her marketing breakfast at the NCECA
> conference, she spoke on the subject, and came up
> with several reasons why art glass sells for so much
> more than art pottery.
> One of her 'reasons' is that men buy most of the
> high-priced glass, while women buy most pottery.
> Thinking about this the last few days, I find the
> notion particularly appalling, but probably true. Women
> are certainly 80-to-90 percent of my customers.
> I think this might also help explain why 'kitchen and
> tabletop' pottery tends to sell for less than 'vessels'
> that are displayed in the living room; the kitchen is
> the woman's domain, and men have traditionally had
> the money and the power.
>
> I would be most interested to hear others thoughts
> about this.
> --
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> hendley@tyler.net
> http://www.farmpots.com/
ferenc jakab on sun 2 apr 00
.
> One of her 'reasons' is that men buy most of the
> high-priced glass, while women buy most pottery.
I find with my work that men are the buyers for my $2000 to $10,000 plus,
life size to near life size figures, (some figures are male). While women
are the buyers for my $40.00 handmade flower pots.
Needless to say I only sell about 2 sculptures per year and can't keep up
with my flower pot orders.
Feri.
Don Jones on sun 2 apr 00
David,
I think maybe this subject from Wendy is out of context somehow. She
certainly must know that glass artists charge an arm, leg, and other body
parts for thier work because it costs so much to make.
I spent some time on a plane returning from an ACC show sitting next to a
glass artist. His ongoing expenses would give you the cold sweats. Making
glass by yourself is not a good idea for starters. It is not a job for
loners.
Don Jones
http://www.highfiber.com/~claysky
----------
>From: David Hendley
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Masculine glass vs. feminine clay
>Date: Sat, Apr 1, 2000, 12:25 PM
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>For several years our good friend Wendy Rosen has
>been pointing out how much glass artists earn for
>their work and how little potters earn. Again this
>year, at her marketing breakfast at the NCECA
>conference, she spoke on the subject, and came up
>with several reasons why art glass sells for so much
>more than art pottery.
>One of her 'reasons' is that men buy most of the
>high-priced glass, while women buy most pottery.
>Thinking about this the last few days, I find the
>notion particularly appalling, but probably true. Women
>are certainly 80-to-90 percent of my customers.
>I think this might also help explain why 'kitchen and
>tabletop' pottery tends to sell for less than 'vessels'
>that are displayed in the living room; the kitchen is
>the woman's domain, and men have traditionally had
>the money and the power.
>
>I would be most interested to hear others thoughts
>about this.
>--
>David Hendley
>Maydelle, Texas
>hendley@tyler.net
>http://www.farmpots.com/
>
Fabienne Cassman on sun 2 apr 00
Hello David,
It sounds like another reality of our society no matter what people make it
sound like. As you say, "traditionally", a key word -- not all of us are
traditional these days. However, I wonder about the pool used for such
pole. It sounds as if only couples were considered.
Staying on this line of thought, what's the expression? Behind every
(great) man, there is (something) woman. Ultimately, I think women are the
buyers on most occasions whether or not their signature is at the bottom of
the credit card receipt -- I'd say that's power.
My $0.02. :) Cheers,
Faye
--
Pottery Toolbox http://clay.justnet.com
Virtual Gallery http://clay.justnet.com/cgallery/
Yes, I have learned from my mistakes...
I can reproduce them exactly.
Jennifer Boyer on mon 3 apr 00
I have some glass blowing friends and here's some interesting
stuff about their business: It's true that you need an employee
or partner to do it. Also they keep a furnace and glory hole
going 24 hrs a day. The furnace heats the glass to 2400 degrees.
They only turn it down when they are away at a show. Plus
there's an annealer going all day that gets turned down at
night. Some glass blowers keep it going 24 hrs a day. They
figure their propane bill to be about 10,000 to 12,000 a year.
They use so much gas that their local gas company can buy at a
cheaper wholesale rate due to their glass studio's volume
alone!! They see no gender slant in who buys glass......
Just their 2c
Jennifer in VT where there is a craftsperson behind every bush
Don Jones wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> David,
> I think maybe this subject from Wendy is out of context somehow. She
> certainly must know that glass artists charge an arm, leg, and other body
> parts for thier work because it costs so much to make.
> I spent some time on a plane returning from an ACC show sitting next to a
> glass artist. His ongoing expenses would give you the cold sweats. Making
> glass by yourself is not a good idea for starters. It is not a job for
> loners.
> Don Jones
> http://www.highfiber.com/~claysky
>
> ----------
> >From: David Hendley
> >To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> >Subject: Masculine glass vs. feminine clay
> >Date: Sat, Apr 1, 2000, 12:25 PM
> >
>
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >For several years our good friend Wendy Rosen has
> >been pointing out how much glass artists earn for
> >their work and how little potters earn. Again this
> >year, at her marketing breakfast at the NCECA
> >conference, she spoke on the subject, and came up
> >with several reasons why art glass sells for so much
> >more than art pottery.
> >One of her 'reasons' is that men buy most of the
> >high-priced glass, while women buy most pottery.
> >Thinking about this the last few days, I find the
> >notion particularly appalling, but probably true. Women
> >are certainly 80-to-90 percent of my customers.
> >I think this might also help explain why 'kitchen and
> >tabletop' pottery tends to sell for less than 'vessels'
> >that are displayed in the living room; the kitchen is
> >the woman's domain, and men have traditionally had
> >the money and the power.
> >
> >I would be most interested to hear others thoughts
> >about this.
> >--
> >David Hendley
> >Maydelle, Texas
> >hendley@tyler.net
> >http://www.farmpots.com/
> >
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer jfboyer@sover.net
Thistle Hill Pottery
Vermont USA
http://www.vermontcrafts.com/members/ThistleHill.html
Check out these sites about web hoaxes:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/culture/urbanlegends/mbody.htm
http://www.stiller.com/hoaxes.htm
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
David Hendley on mon 3 apr 00
| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Tim Lynch, The Clay Man sez....
| I mean, how many times have you seen a full-length special on PBS on a
| particular potter? I don't recall any. If there is one, let me know so I
| can get the tape. On the other hand, how many times has a particular
glass
| artist been featured on the same network? I can think of two, "Chihuly
Over
| Venice," and the latest one, for which the title escapes me but is about
his
| installation in Jerusalem.
Tim, this is another one of Wendy Rosen's reasons why glass
sells for more than clay: Clay has no Chihuly. She tells stories
of 6-year-olds exclaiming, "Mommy, look at the Chihuly!"
The man has created an insatiable demand for high-priced work.
Who do we potters have?
Uh, how about the Leach tradition of 'reasonably priced' pots
as exemplified by Warren MacKenzie. Not exactly a way to get
people in the frame of mind for paying high prices.
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on mon 3 apr 00
In my limited experience with this phenomenon I would say what David says is
true. Most of my larger, more expensive one of a kind sculptural pieces have
been bought by men, while the productions line stuff has been bought by women.
But, at retail craft shows, the audience is mainly women I think. I think this
is an interesting theory which has some basis in fact----women who are married
still consult their husbands when making large purchases. This may explain the
price points too....under $15, under $25, etc. Men don't seem to have the same
reticence to spend money on something they like. '
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Jones [SMTP:claysky@highfiber.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2000 1:51 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Masculine glass vs. feminine clay
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
David,
I think maybe this subject from Wendy is out of context somehow. She
certainly must know that glass artists charge an arm, leg, and other body
parts for thier work because it costs so much to make.
I spent some time on a plane returning from an ACC show sitting next to a
glass artist. His ongoing expenses would give you the cold sweats. Making
glass by yourself is not a good idea for starters. It is not a job for
loners.
Don Jones
http://www.highfiber.com/~claysky
----------
>From: David Hendley
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Subject: Masculine glass vs. feminine clay
>Date: Sat, Apr 1, 2000, 12:25 PM
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>For several years our good friend Wendy Rosen has
>been pointing out how much glass artists earn for
>their work and how little potters earn. Again this
>year, at her marketing breakfast at the NCECA
>conference, she spoke on the subject, and came up
>with several reasons why art glass sells for so much
>more than art pottery.
>One of her 'reasons' is that men buy most of the
>high-priced glass, while women buy most pottery.
>Thinking about this the last few days, I find the
>notion particularly appalling, but probably true. Women
>are certainly 80-to-90 percent of my customers.
>I think this might also help explain why 'kitchen and
>tabletop' pottery tends to sell for less than 'vessels'
>that are displayed in the living room; the kitchen is
>the woman's domain, and men have traditionally had
>the money and the power.
>
>I would be most interested to hear others thoughts
>about this.
>--
>David Hendley
>Maydelle, Texas
>hendley@tyler.net
>http://www.farmpots.com/
>
rickmahaffey on tue 4 apr 00
Jennifer,
I don't know what has changed since the early 70's when I got my
undergraduate degree in Clay and Glass, but glory holes only run when
you need to reheat glass (when you are working), a furnace at 2400
degrees F will make glass too runny to gather let alone blow, and we
learned to blow alone when necessary.
What is still the same is that Glass blowers have large gas bills, but
collectors and regular buyers will pay more for glass than clay so that
evens out some. Sounds like the your glass blowing friends are trying
to make their case sound more extreme than it is.
Rick Mahaffey
Tacoma Community College
Tacoma, Washington, USA
Jennifer Boyer wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have some glass blowing friends and here's some interesting
> stuff about their business: It's true that you need an employee
> or partner to do it. Also they keep a furnace and glory hole
> going 24 hrs a day. The furnace heats the glass to 2400 degrees.
> They only turn it down when they are away at a show. Plus
> there's an annealer going all day that gets turned down at
> night. Some glass blowers keep it going 24 hrs a day. They
> figure their propane bill to be about 10,000 to 12,000 a year.
> They use so much gas that their local gas company can buy at a
> cheaper wholesale rate due to their glass studio's volume
> alone!! They see no gender slant in who buys glass......
> Just their 2c
> Jennifer in VT where there is a craftsperson behind every bush
>
>
elizabeth priddy on sun 9 apr 00
here's another question regarding this:
are men and women both more willing to pay a man
more for a piece of pottery OR glass than to a
woman?
And if this is the case, are the men preferring
to pay the higher dollars to other men, thus
perpetuating the glass ceiling, or clay ceiling,
as it were?
And are glass makers more frequently men than
women?
I am a woman making pots. Two men moved to
the area and aquired instant credibility where
I have seen women more talented than either fo
them come in and remain obscure.
Sometimes I wish I lived 100 years in the future
and then other times I am sure it wouldn't be
any better, although there probably will be
hydro-electric car kilns.
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
On Sun, 2 Apr 2000 13:23:17 Cindy Strnad wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>David,
>
>I think you're right about women buying most of the pottery. Now, even
>though women are more able to earn equivalent money than ever, and more
>likely to have exclusive control of that money, we still tend to buy less
>expensive art than men. All my high priced pieces have gone to men, and most
>of the rest go to women.
>
>I read a study on this somewhere--don't remember where, maybe CM. The upshot
>was that women buy more, but less-expensive items and men buy fewer, more
>expensive items. Probably a residual of the male-dominated culture. It's
>amazing how long these old habits hang on.
>
>I spent some time in Jamaica and had the privilege of talking to a leading
>anthropologist there. She explained that in Jamaica, most of the
>professionals (doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc.) are women. That's not just
>because all the male professionals left during that nation's brief
>experiment with communism. According to her, it's a hang-on from slave days.
>
>Men were encouraged to father many children on many different women and
>marriage was forbidden. This, to increase the production of new slaves, of
>course. A man's worth came from how hard he could work and how many children
>he could father. A woman's responsibility was to raise those children to a
>viable age, and as you might imagine, women had to be quite ingenious to
>succeed at this daunting task. In Jamaica, women have always had all the
>responsibility. They pretty much still do, even though the culture is
>radically different from what it was during the time of slavery.
>
>So, it may be quite a long time before women begin spending high dollars on
>pottery.
>
>Cindy
>(Considering moving exclusively into the high-dollar art arena after reading
>David's letter. I'd have to hire a respectable-looking male to sell
>my pottery, though, now wouldn't I?)
>
>Cindy Strnad
>earthenv@gwtc.net
>Earthen Vessels Pottery
>RR 1, Box 51
>Custer, SD 57730
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
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