Joyce Lee on sun 2 apr 00
> Hank, in some ways you're right on target but, CLAYART is there to fill
> > the void. CLAYARTers are people intrerested in clay and clay stuff.
> > They make it (made it) worthwhile. Their excitement and inquisitveness
> > made up for all those academic tenure types. > Cullen
> > Naperville, Illinois
>
> AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!! I think I'll just shoot myself.
> - Vince
Don't you dare, Vince! I have honest difficulty understanding how
potters/craftsmen/artists can be AGAINST educators and education!!
I've never commented on the misplaced arrogance implicit behind such
statements because I felt that, this being Clayart, we encourage
diversity and don't try to slam one another even when we read hurtful
statements that are indicative of the writer's vast ignorance. I've been
pondering my own attitude and think perhaps I too am guilty of
considerable "arrogance" when I DON'T respond....by making the
assumption that I and others of my "type" are indeed above open
give&take with the semi-literate who assume that "those academic tenure
types" are NOT clayarters and NOT interested in "clay and clay stuff!"
Jeez...........
Joyce
In the Mojave lookin' for a break and saying "go ahead and DELETE,
please...."
Jean Cochran on sun 2 apr 00
Dear Vince,
I love it, aaarrrgghhh! It was funny because it wasn't my ox being
gored. Sometimes we humans get so involved in our own particular space
in clay that we forget to have respect for the struggle and excellence
of folks in a different space. I enjoy your remarks.
Yours for fine crafts,
Jean Wadsworth Cochran
Fox Hollow Pottery
Hank Murrow on mon 3 apr 00
------------------
=3E----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3E=3E Hank, in some ways you're right on target but, CLAYART is there to =
fill
=3E=3E =3E the void. CLAYARTers are people intrerested in clay and clay =
stuff.
=3E=3E =3E They make it (made it) worthwhile. Their excitement and =
inquisitveness
=3E=3E =3E made up for all those academic tenure types. =3E Cullen
=3E=3E =3E Naperville, Illinois
=3E=3E
=3E=3E AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH=21=21=21 I think I'll just shoot myself.
=3E=3E - Vince
=3E
Dear Vince ,Cullen, Joyce, and Lurkers=3B
I am so sorry that my remarks(meant to redirect angst concerning the
mission of NCECA) somehow were taken to equal support for an
anti-intellectual position vis-=E0-vis the University and profs there. I owe
my intellectual life to the excellent education I received throughout
graduate school and in the various teaching assignments I've been lucky to
enjoy. Claywork permits an unusually broad focus on history, chemistry,
physics, logistics, economics, psychology, and other vital subjects IN, or
OUT OF the university. Curiosity and personal inquiry do not recognize
institutional boundaries. I only meant to suggest that those who choose to
focus more narrowly might benefit from association with others of similar
interests. Start another club=21 Or join NCECA in its mission of 'Education
in the Ceramic Arts'.
Looking for a masseuse in Eugene, Hank Murrow
David Hendley on mon 3 apr 00
Joyce in the Mojave said:
| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
| Don't you dare, Vince! I have honest difficulty understanding how
| potters/craftsmen/artists can be AGAINST educators and education!!
| I've never commented on the misplaced arrogance implicit behind such
I'll help you understand, Joyce.
This is NOT, repeat NOT, how I feel, but it's pretty easy for a
struggling potter to resent educators who seems to have it
so much easier. ('Seems' is the operative word; we know things
are often not as they seem.)
Say the potter wants to go to the NCECA conference. He has to
pay all expenses out of his pocket, plus he loses 4 or 5 days
of production and, thus, income. He sees educators at the
conference, all expenses paid, with their classes back home
covered by another teacher or grad student.
Suppose the potter goes to a local art fair. Across the way is
the ceramics teacher from the near-by college, selling work
done at the college, fired in the college kilns. The potter
has to compete with someone who pays no rent and has no
expenses, except maybe buying some clay.
If it's a state college, the potter's taxes may actually be
subsidizing his competition!
A working potter is also often made to feel inferior by academic
types because he makes a lot of items, including low-priced
items, in order to make a living.
The academic has the luxury of considering such production
beneath his artistic standards.
So, there you have a few reasons, Joyce.
Me, I'll take my freedom over grades, administrators, policy
books, and committee meetings any day. Even if I have
to pay my own way to NCECA.
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
Marcia Selsor on wed 5 apr 00
Dear David,
I have no traves costs covered (art faculty aren't worthy) and nobody in
my department covers my classes (clay yuk!)except advanced students (who
I pay out of pocket)
I have had to pay my own way to NCECA for years. I do all I can to bring
as many students as possible. (9 this year) I have also been sensitive
to not undercut any local potters by producing pottery at the state's
shop. However, after 25 years of ignoring my life and giving , giving
giving until, I am almost dead with abused body because of no support
staff for a program of 60 students, I am really looking forward to
having a life in my studio. It may take a while for my clay work to
become my own voice instead of trying to cover ever blessed thing I
could think of to teach my students, but LOOK OUT.
I am free at last in 27 days.So quit knocking educators. Life isn't so
sweet on this side of the fence.
Marcia in Montana
David Hendley wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Joyce in the Mojave said:
> | ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> | Don't you dare, Vince! I have honest difficulty understanding how
> | potters/craftsmen/artists can be AGAINST educators and education!!
> | I've never commented on the misplaced arrogance implicit behind such
>
> I'll help you understand, Joyce.
> This is NOT, repeat NOT, how I feel, but it's pretty easy for a
> struggling potter to resent educators who seems to have it
> so much easier. ('Seems' is the operative word; we know things
> are often not as they seem.)
>
> Say the potter wants to go to the NCECA conference. He has to
> pay all expenses out of his pocket, plus he loses 4 or 5 days
> of production and, thus, income. He sees educators at the
> conference, all expenses paid, with their classes back home
> covered by another teacher or grad student.
> Suppose the potter goes to a local art fair. Across the way is
> the ceramics teacher from the near-by college, selling work
> done at the college, fired in the college kilns. The potter
> has to compete with someone who pays no rent and has no
> expenses, except maybe buying some clay.
> If it's a state college, the potter's taxes may actually be
> subsidizing his competition!
> A working potter is also often made to feel inferior by academic
> types because he makes a lot of items, including low-priced
> items, in order to make a living.
> The academic has the luxury of considering such production
> beneath his artistic standards.
>
> So, there you have a few reasons, Joyce.
> Me, I'll take my freedom over grades, administrators, policy
> books, and committee meetings any day. Even if I have
> to pay my own way to NCECA.
> --
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> hendley@tyler.net
> http://www.farmpots.com/
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/spain99.html
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/selsor/welcome.html
Tasha Olive on wed 5 apr 00
Dear dear David, I will admit that that is EXACTLY the way I feel SOMETIMES,
but then I too, remember all the freedom that comes with my decision not to
be involved as a Paid educator ( we all educate in our own ways ) and I just
smile as I explore this wonderful medium that we are ALL so fond of. Tasha
-----Original Message-----
From: David Hendley
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: NCECA (now AAARRRGGHHH!!!)
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Joyce in the Mojave said:
>| ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>| Don't you dare, Vince! I have honest difficulty understanding how
>| potters/craftsmen/artists can be AGAINST educators and education!!
>| I've never commented on the misplaced arrogance implicit behind such
>
>I'll help you understand, Joyce.
>This is NOT, repeat NOT, how I feel, but it's pretty easy for a
>struggling potter to resent educators who seems to have it
>so much easier. ('Seems' is the operative word; we know things
>are often not as they seem.)
>
>Say the potter wants to go to the NCECA conference. He has to
>pay all expenses out of his pocket, plus he loses 4 or 5 days
>of production and, thus, income. He sees educators at the
>conference, all expenses paid, with their classes back home
>covered by another teacher or grad student.
>Suppose the potter goes to a local art fair. Across the way is
>the ceramics teacher from the near-by college, selling work
>done at the college, fired in the college kilns. The potter
>has to compete with someone who pays no rent and has no
>expenses, except maybe buying some clay.
>If it's a state college, the potter's taxes may actually be
>subsidizing his competition!
>A working potter is also often made to feel inferior by academic
>types because he makes a lot of items, including low-priced
>items, in order to make a living.
>The academic has the luxury of considering such production
>beneath his artistic standards.
>
>So, there you have a few reasons, Joyce.
>Me, I'll take my freedom over grades, administrators, policy
>books, and committee meetings any day. Even if I have
>to pay my own way to NCECA.
>--
>David Hendley
>Maydelle, Texas
>hendley@tyler.net
>http://www.farmpots.com/
| |
|
