Aiko Ichimura on tue 25 apr 00
Lee wrote:
> Each culture has its strength. They use tea
> bowls here, so they tend to be better (form follows function.) Now,
> handles is where the West excels. Handled pitchers and mugs tend to be
> better in the west, where they have a long tradition.
>
I have been wondering why we don't put handles for tea cups(yunomi) and you
do in the West.
This is totally my speculation so take it with a grain of salt.
I tend to think that got to with the temparature of water used for serving
tea( green leaf tea
and not powdered tea here). The green tea, we are taught, best produce the
most
wonderful taste when the water temparature is 15 degree (c) below the
boiling point.
You boil the water in the kettle. You pour the water into a bowl to reduce
the temparature
about 10- 15 degree( absolutely a must). You must wait patienly--
if you don't, it will kill the aroma and taste of tea.
Having cool down the temparature, you pour the water into the teapot that
contains the
tea leaves. Wait a minute or so to steap and then finally pour the tea in
to a yunomi( tea cup)
If you do follow the instruction precicely, the temparature of the tea cup
is just right
to hold in your hands. If you don't, it's too hot to hold. By not putting
handle, it
make you be more aware of the serving temparature. Thus assuring the good
taste of the served tea. If there is a handle on the teacup, one might not
pay
attention of the temparature for the water because you can hold the cup
without buning your hand and that will kill the wonderful taste of green
tea.
Having no reason not to have boining water for your coffee and black tea,
you naturally would need a handle for your cup in order to prevent
your hand from burning. My theory! What do you think?
Aiko
Ray Aldridge on wed 26 apr 00
At 03:08 PM 4/25/00 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>If you do follow the instruction precicely, the temparature of the tea cup
>is just right
>to hold in your hands. If you don't, it's too hot to hold. By not putting
>handle, it
>make you be more aware of the serving temparature. Thus assuring the good
>taste of the served tea. If there is a handle on the teacup, one might not
>pay
>attention of the temparature for the water because you can hold the cup
>without buning your hand and that will kill the wonderful taste of green
>tea.
>
>Having no reason not to have boining water for your coffee and black tea,
>you naturally would need a handle for your cup in order to prevent
>your hand from burning. My theory! What do you think?
>
Excellent theory-- I think you're exactly right. I wonder how long this
practical effect has been noticeable, because very old European (and
Mediterranean) drinking vessels have handles, while most old Chinese and
Korean ones do not.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Yvonne and Eric Wong on wed 26 apr 00
Tea cup without a handle is a good device to test the
temperature of the tea.
If it is too hot for me to hold the cup, that means the
tea is too hot for my lips. If I can hold the cup and
feel warm and comfortable, that means the tea is ready for
me to drink.
Some people can drink hotter tea than others. Sometimes,
our preference (or tolerance) to the temperature of tea
differs according to the weather and to our own physical
condition. This is my own experience and observation.
If we look at the Chinese (bronze) wine cups and vessels
of two thousand years ago, handles were common.
Form follows function, yes, and excels.
Yvonne Wong
Yvonne and Eric Wong
e-mail : shinowong@go.com
web site : http://clayation.virtualave.net
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Hank Murrow on thu 27 apr 00
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>If you do follow the instruction precicely, the temparature of the tea cup
>>is just right
>>to hold in your hands. If you don't, it's too hot to hold. By not putting
>>handle, it
>>make you be more aware of the serving temparature. Thus assuring the good
>>taste of the served tea. If there is a handle on the teacup, one might not
>>pay
>>attention of the temparature for the water because you can hold the cup
>>without buning your hand and that will kill the wonderful taste of green
>>tea.
>>
>>Having no reason not to have boining water for your coffee and black tea,
>>you naturally would need a handle for your cup in order to prevent
>>your hand from burning. My theory! What do you think?
>>
>
>Excellent theory-- I think you're exactly right. I wonder how long this
>practical effect has been noticeable, because very old European (and
>Mediterranean) drinking vessels have handles, while most old Chinese and
>Korean ones do not.
>
>Ray
Just to add one more note to this thread; Mr.Hamada showed a film at his
workshop in LA in '63 which showed his kiln packers being given a fresh cup
of tea in a yunomi. They held it by resting the cup on index and second
finger, with thumb on the rim until cooled enough to hold onto the sides.
Maybe he served a lesser grade of sencha in those cups. Of course, we then
noticed that he held his fresh-brewed tea during the workshop in that
manner. Laisse le bon temps roulez! Hank in Eugene
KYancey on thu 27 apr 00
Well, what about the difference between being able to either hang the cup on a
hook or stack them on top of each other, or am I being too simple.
Ken
Ray Aldridge wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> At 03:08 PM 4/25/00 EDT, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >
> >If you do follow the instruction precicely, the temparature of the tea cup
> >is just right
> >to hold in your hands. If you don't, it's too hot to hold. By not putting
> >handle, it
> >make you be more aware of the serving temparature. Thus assuring the good
> >taste of the served tea. If there is a handle on the teacup, one might not
> >pay
> >attention of the temparature for the water because you can hold the cup
> >without buning your hand and that will kill the wonderful taste of green
> >tea.
> >
> >Having no reason not to have boining water for your coffee and black tea,
> >you naturally would need a handle for your cup in order to prevent
> >your hand from burning. My theory! What do you think?
> >
>
> Excellent theory-- I think you're exactly right. I wonder how long this
> practical effect has been noticeable, because very old European (and
> Mediterranean) drinking vessels have handles, while most old Chinese and
> Korean ones do not.
>
> Ray
>
> Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
> http://www.goodpots.com
Janet Kaiser on fri 28 apr 00
I cannot think of any culture at any time in history, which did not have
handles on pots! Or is this specifically about tea cups vs. tea bowls?
Tea, coffee and chocolate cups originally did not have a handle in the UK
and Europe either. When tea was introduced, the bowl was also introduced as
the "authentic" vessel to drink from. A small bowl on a shallow under-bowl.
It was also quite acceptable to pour the tea out of the bowl onto the saucer
and drink from that.
Handles were only added to the bowls later, so they became cups and the
shallow under bowl was flattened further to become what we would recognise
as a saucer. The cup and saucer was a practical way of being able to stand
to drink tea, coffee or chocolate or lie in bed to drink. This was, after
all, the time of the lady's boudoir when it was fashionable for gentlemen to
visit a lady!
The coffee houses of Europe were also busy crowded places... A cup with
handle would be far "safer". I can imagine that the odd jog on the elbow
could be better parried with a cup... At least the hot contents would be
spilled onto the floor rather than on the hand holding it.
Either sitting on a chair or propped up in bed... I am sure the cup and
saucer is the only solution to drinking without spilling. Tea and coffee
stains would have been extremely difficult to remove from the cotton, linen,
lace and silk clothes and hence to be avoided.
At the informal tea-time gatherings, the ladies sat and the gentlemen did
the waiting. They often stood to drink their tea, so a cup with a handle
could be carried and held, whatever the temperature of the contents, with
the saucer to catch drips and hold the spoon and cup... Allowing one hand to
be free except when drinking. The addition of sweeteners being another
western "improvement" on the original import, along with milk, spoons also
needed to be accommodated.
The 18th century also saw a fashion for "one-handed" dexterity. People used
to practise all sorts of things, like opening a snuff box with one hand and
opening or closing a fan with a swift, elegant movement. I wonder whether
this was also a reason for the cup being held in one hand? A handle then
makes a far daintier spectacle... Especially with the little finger cocked
just so! And there is evidence of that little affectation predating the
handle... A painting by Tischbein shows his wife elegantly holding a coffee
cup on a saucer in her right hand from underneath and with her pinkie
daintily aloft! (The Meissen pot on the table in front of her is dated
1745-50).
The social structures are also worth looking at, because downstairs imitated
what upstairs did, then the peasantry always followed. What the "upper
10,000" did, was sooner or later taken up everywhere. Indeed, there were
still old people who drank tea out of their saucers when I was a child. I
can remember the old farmer's wife next door quite vividly... Much to the
embarrassment of her children! I can also remember the introduction of
mugs... Not something for serving polite society!
History lesson over... I mean, just my penny worth.
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art, Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales
Home of The International Potters Path
TEL: (01766) 523570
WEB: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
elizabeth priddy on sat 29 apr 00
I have seen asian drinking vessels with little
holes in the foot for a leather/sinew thong so
that the cup can be attached to a belt, monk
style. The straps would be long gone on old
pots, but the anomylous holes are sometimes
still there. That would allow you to hang it
somewhere and also cup it gently in your hand,
the best of both worlds.
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
Clay: 12,000 yrs and still fresh!
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:26:35 KYancey wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Well, what about the difference between being able to either hang the cup on a
>hook or stack them on top of each other, or am I being too simple.
>
>Ken
>
>Ray Aldridge wrote:
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> At 03:08 PM 4/25/00 EDT, you wrote:
>> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> >
>> >If you do follow the instruction precicely, the temparature of the tea cup
>> >is just right
>> >to hold in your hands. If you don't, it's too hot to hold. By not putting
>> >handle, it
>> >make you be more aware of the serving temparature. Thus assuring the good
>> >taste of the served tea. If there is a handle on the teacup, one might not
>> >pay
>> >attention of the temparature for the water because you can hold the cup
>> >without buning your hand and that will kill the wonderful taste of green
>> >tea.
>> >
>> >Having no reason not to have boining water for your coffee and black tea,
>> >you naturally would need a handle for your cup in order to prevent
>> >your hand from burning. My theory! What do you think?
>> >
>>
>> Excellent theory-- I think you're exactly right. I wonder how long this
>> practical effect has been noticeable, because very old European (and
>> Mediterranean) drinking vessels have handles, while most old Chinese and
>> Korean ones do not.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
>> http://www.goodpots.com
>
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Before you buy.
Khaimraj Seepersad on sat 29 apr 00
Good Day to All ,
you might want to see the Holy Mountain Tea site . Very educational ,
many of the teas offered are drawn at water temperatures , below
the boiling point .
At that temperature , I can easily hold a teabowl by the rim .
I might add the White Teas are especially pleasant , do try them .
They may seem a bit dear , but you can draw them more than once ,
and a little goes a long way .
They also stock the very pleasant Green Tea for Raku use .
I found the romance connected to these teas , very inspirational when
designing new tea pots , tea bowls [ and with covers ] . The scents are
heavenly .
Khaimraj Seepersad
* I have no commercial or other ties to Holy Mountain Teas .
-----Original Message-----
From: Hank Murrow
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: 27 April 2000 11:25
Subject: Re: Why you have handle and we don't.
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>If you do follow the instruction precicely, the temparature of the tea cup
>>is just right
>>to hold in your hands. If you don't, it's too hot to hold. By not putting
>>handle, it
>>make you be more aware of the serving temparature. Thus assuring the good
>>taste of the served tea. If there is a handle on the teacup, one might not
>>pay
>>attention of the temparature for the water because you can hold the cup
>>without buning your hand and that will kill the wonderful taste of green
>>tea.
>>
>>Having no reason not to have boining water for your coffee and black tea,
>>you naturally would need a handle for your cup in order to prevent
>>your hand from burning. My theory! What do you think?
>>
>
>Excellent theory-- I think you're exactly right. I wonder how long this
>practical effect has been noticeable, because very old European (and
>Mediterranean) drinking vessels have handles, while most old Chinese and
>Korean ones do not.
>
>Ray
Just to add one more note to this thread; Mr.Hamada showed a film at his
workshop in LA in '63 which showed his kiln packers being given a fresh cup
of tea in a yunomi. They held it by resting the cup on index and second
finger, with thumb on the rim until cooled enough to hold onto the sides.
Maybe he served a lesser grade of sencha in those cups. Of course, we then
noticed that he held his fresh-brewed tea during the workshop in that
manner. Laisse le bon temps roulez! Hank in Eugene
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