mel jacobson on sat 29 apr 00
i realize how difficult it is for many of you to understand
just how well a disciplined japanese thrower can work.
when i tell people that a thrower works with total precision,
making item after item, hour after hour with perfect skill, many do not believe
it. and for sure do not believe the numbers that can be produced.
of course that concept comes from a standard set in many school programs
that feel that making 20 pots in a semester is a big deal.
a trained japanese thrower does nothing but throw all day.
he does not get off the wheel except to go to the bathroom.
all pieces are hump thrown, and whatever you are making that
day it is repeated over and over. when we made teapots, i would
just throw covers, hundreds of them. mr. imahori would make the bodies.
all to scale...exact scale. my covers would fit the hole perfectly. mr. tanabe
would do spouts and strainers. every part of the process was done to
perfect scale. all the teapots were identical when complete.
when we made the 4,000 teabowls, mr. uchida brought out the model, we
talked about it, learned the small variations that he wanted. we all made
sets of tools for measuring and shaping. we then practiced the form.
when we set out to make them, all four of us were on the same page.
each bowl was made to an exact standard, at the end of the day we
would not know who made what set of boards of pots. the next
day we would just take a board full and start the turning process. the bowls
just began stacking up. all the same. you could match the rims, the feet,
the height. all the same. perfect. that is what training does. the muscle
memory becomes automatic, much like watching a grandmother knitting. she
does not have to look, think, she just does it in an automatic way. think of
the average concert violinist, playing at the speed of sound. think of the
thousands of automatic responses that the hands and mind make in just a
few minutes. why cannot a clay thrower do the same thing? and again, with
the same precision. it can be done, and is done, every day in many parts of
the world. the answer to the question is of course, most potters that wheel
throw, are not trained. that is the flaw in self teaching, and most school
programs of art....technique is forgotten or is unknown by the
teacher. (and of course, if you do not understand something, minimize it, or
assume it has no value.)
so, the answer to the question is: do the lessons, train, set a standard
of excellence and practice as if you are going on the concert stage.
(and of course you are.)
i did that year of lessons, it was like training for the olympics. my
hands have never been so strong. at the end of the day i felt as if
i could crush metal pieces into iron oxide. but, beyond that, i learned
to measure clay. and i know it can be measured as accurately as metal
or wood. a fact.
mel/mn
training, what a concept. art vs. craft no, training vs. expression. you
can have both, it just takes work.
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
written from the farm in wisconsin
Jeanne Wood on sun 30 apr 00
Hi Mel,
This is indeed difficult to imagine. But what makes me
think it would be most difficult is the effect on the
throwers physical health. Does the result of constant
repetition of one shape without stopping to stretch
cause carpal tunnel syndrome, or arthritis, or
tendonitis over the years? What about back problems?
I ask, because even mild repetition without stretching
or changing tasks does this to me (although it didn't
20 years ago).
Thanks,
Jeanne W.
--- mel jacobson wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> i realize how difficult it is for many of you to
> understand
> just how well a disciplined japanese thrower can
> work.
>
> when i tell people that a thrower works with total
> precision,
> making item after item, hour after hour with perfect
> skill, many do not believe
> it. and for sure do not believe the numbers that can
> be produced.
> of course that concept comes from a standard set in
> many school programs
> that feel that making 20 pots in a semester is a big
> deal.
>
> a trained japanese thrower does nothing but throw
> all day.
> he does not get off the wheel except to go to the
> bathroom.
> all pieces are hump thrown, and whatever you are
> making that
> day it is repeated over and over. when we made
> teapots, i would
> just throw covers, hundreds of them. mr. imahori
> would make the bodies.
> all to scale...exact scale. my covers would fit the
> hole perfectly. mr. tanabe
> would do spouts and strainers. every part of the
> process was done to
> perfect scale. all the teapots were identical when
> complete.
>
> when we made the 4,000 teabowls, mr. uchida brought
> out the model, we
> talked about it, learned the small variations that
> he wanted. we all made
> sets of tools for measuring and shaping. we then
> practiced the form.
> when we set out to make them, all four of us were on
> the same page.
> each bowl was made to an exact standard, at the end
> of the day we
> would not know who made what set of boards of pots.
> the next
> day we would just take a board full and start the
> turning process. the bowls
> just began stacking up. all the same. you could
> match the rims, the feet,
> the height. all the same. perfect. that is what
> training does. the muscle
> memory becomes automatic, much like watching a
> grandmother knitting. she
> does not have to look, think, she just does it in an
> automatic way. think of
> the average concert violinist, playing at the speed
> of sound. think of the
> thousands of automatic responses that the hands and
> mind make in just a
> few minutes. why cannot a clay thrower do the same
> thing? and again, with
> the same precision. it can be done, and is done,
> every day in many parts of
> the world. the answer to the question is of course,
> most potters that wheel
> throw, are not trained. that is the flaw in self
> teaching, and most school
> programs of art....technique is forgotten or is
> unknown by the
> teacher. (and of course, if you do not understand
> something, minimize it, or
> assume it has no value.)
>
> so, the answer to the question is: do the lessons,
> train, set a standard
> of excellence and practice as if you are going on
> the concert stage.
> (and of course you are.)
>
> i did that year of lessons, it was like training for
> the olympics. my
> hands have never been so strong. at the end of the
> day i felt as if
> i could crush metal pieces into iron oxide. but,
> beyond that, i learned
> to measure clay. and i know it can be measured as
> accurately as metal
> or wood. a fact.
> mel/mn
> training, what a concept. art vs. craft no,
> training vs. expression. you
> can have both, it just takes work.
>
>
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> written from the farm in wisconsin
>
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
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priddy on sun 30 apr 00
------------------
mel jacobson =3Cmelpots=40pclink.com=3E wrote:
=3E ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
=3E i realize how difficult it is for many of you to understand
=3E just how well a disciplined japanese thrower can work.
=3E
=3E when i tell people that a thrower works with total precision,
=3E making item after item, hour after hour with perfect skill, many do not
believe
=3E it. and for sure do not believe the numbers that can be produced.
=3E of course that concept comes from a standard set in many school programs
=3E that feel that making 20 pots in a semester is a big deal.
This is not an asian thing, either. It is a production pottery thing.
I trained in America, and was not raised to full pay until I was throwing =
100
two pound pots a day, with no after throwing breakage, no variation from =
=22the
small utility=22 that I was throwing. If I somehow spaced and began to =
throw
=22my=22 shape instead of the shapes I was throwing for the order of 1000 to=
be
completed in ten days, I had to scoop them into reclaim and start over. I
didn't do that too often, because as a journeyman, you don't get paid for =
that
day you wasted, only for days you do the work correctly. There is no demand
for your pots, they are just wasted energy, there is no order for your
feeling, just 1000 utilities.
You can learn this in any production pottery anywhere and it won't kill your
spirit. The beauty, and I imagine, joy of doing it in Japan is the your
colleagues and customers admire and respect you rather than saying things =
like
=22well, she just throws production, she doesn't make art...=22.
Nonetheless, you move from that to your own studio, and begin to make what =
you
want, rather than the =22small utility=22 and you make your own art, much =
faster,
precisely, and efficiently than you ever will unless you take the time to
train in this style. Having never tried to do it, you never will=3B and =
should
probably withhold your judgement about people who have and still choose to.
You probably don't understand their motivation.
Your art doesn't suffer and your spirit soars, knowing that you are fully
engaged in doing what potters do, the same as 1, 2, etc. thousand years ago.
Production throwing is beautiful. It is a dance of the soul and your =
partners
are the clay and the form.
Flaking out in NC...
respectfully submitted,
elizabeth priddy
priddy-clay=40usa.net
http:www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F==
5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5=
F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D1
Ken Chin-Purcell on sun 30 apr 00
Mel,
You write,
> when we made the 4,000 teabowls, mr. uchida brought out the model, we
> talked about it, learned the small variations that he wanted. we all made
> sets of tools for measuring and shaping. we then practiced the form.
> when we set out to make them, all four of us were on the same page.
> each bowl was made to an exact standard, at the end of the day we
> would not know who made what set of boards of pots. the next
> day we would just take a board full and start the turning process. the bowls
> just began stacking up. all the same. you could match the rims, the feet,
> the height. all the same. perfect.
I agree about the benefits of practice. But I'm curious, do you think
the quality of the work from Mr. Uchida's pottery bennefited from his
insistence on exact copies? Why didn't he just make a mold, tradition?
The scene you describe sounds rather sterile to these western ears.
What was your reaction to it?
-- Ken Chin-Purcell
Janet Kaiser on sun 30 apr 00
Just a reminder that precision production throwing is not confined to the
East. My pottery teacher spent 10 years throwing plant pots and looked upon
it as his "apprenticeship". He went on to establish his own studio. His
skills were phenomenal... He would design a shape, then wire a lump of clay
off, sit down at the wheel and throw that shape. Exactly right size and
shape. No weighing clay first or working with callipers! Magic!
Like Mel says, it enters your inner being. It becomes automatic. But only
after hundreds, yes, thousands of practice runs. It is an enviable skill...
I sure as hell envy those craftspeople who have acquired that wonderful
inner ability, no matter how they have or where they work in the world.
I speak as someone who would have difficulty throwing quail egg-cups all the
same size and shape. But then, not only have I not sat at a wheel in
years... I am the product of art school and a middle to late 20th century
academic "training"... It let a lot of people down. Talent is no substitute
for skill.
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art, Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales
Home of The International Potters Path
TEL: (01766) 523570
WEB: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
Stephen Grimmer on sun 30 apr 00
Mel,
I'd bet there are production throwers in this country that are just as
fast and accurate as those in Japan. I once watched a guy from a pottery in
New Hampshire throw 8" pitchers in a single pull and two moves with the rib.
They were all the same and made in under a minute. He said that when one is
paid by the piece, more than one pull is losing money. The pots were not
stunning, but were passable, functional water pitchers.
I agree completely with your sentiments regarding skill development. I
see too many young potters with ideas but without the ability to execute
them well. The potters who have taken the time to learn the craft well don't
need lots of "ideas," as making pots generates its own questions, the
answers to which take one down the path of creativity.
Steve
--
Steve Grimmer
Bowling Green State University
Bowling Green, OH
> From: mel jacobson
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:35:20 EDT
> To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
> Subject: precision throwing
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> i realize how difficult it is for many of you to understand
> just how well a disciplined japanese thrower can work.
>
> when i tell people that a thrower works with total precision,
> making item after item, hour after hour with perfect skill, many do not
> believe
> it. and for sure do not believe the numbers that can be produced.
> of course that concept comes from a standard set in many school programs
> that feel that making 20 pots in a semester is a big deal.
>
> a trained japanese thrower does nothing but throw all day.
> he does not get off the wheel except to go to the bathroom.
> all pieces are hump thrown, and whatever you are making that
> day it is repeated over and over. when we made teapots, i would
> just throw covers, hundreds of them. mr. imahori would make the bodies.
> all to scale...exact scale. my covers would fit the hole perfectly. mr.
> tanabe
> would do spouts and strainers. every part of the process was done to
> perfect scale. all the teapots were identical when complete.
>
> when we made the 4,000 teabowls, mr. uchida brought out the model, we
> talked about it, learned the small variations that he wanted. we all made
> sets of tools for measuring and shaping. we then practiced the form.
> when we set out to make them, all four of us were on the same page.
> each bowl was made to an exact standard, at the end of the day we
> would not know who made what set of boards of pots. the next
> day we would just take a board full and start the turning process. the bowls
> just began stacking up. all the same. you could match the rims, the feet,
> the height. all the same. perfect. that is what training does. the muscle
> memory becomes automatic, much like watching a grandmother knitting. she
> does not have to look, think, she just does it in an automatic way. think of
> the average concert violinist, playing at the speed of sound. think of the
> thousands of automatic responses that the hands and mind make in just a
> few minutes. why cannot a clay thrower do the same thing? and again, with
> the same precision. it can be done, and is done, every day in many parts of
> the world. the answer to the question is of course, most potters that wheel
> throw, are not trained. that is the flaw in self teaching, and most school
> programs of art....technique is forgotten or is unknown by the
> teacher. (and of course, if you do not understand something, minimize it, or
> assume it has no value.)
>
> so, the answer to the question is: do the lessons, train, set a standard
> of excellence and practice as if you are going on the concert stage.
> (and of course you are.)
>
> i did that year of lessons, it was like training for the olympics. my
> hands have never been so strong. at the end of the day i felt as if
> i could crush metal pieces into iron oxide. but, beyond that, i learned
> to measure clay. and i know it can be measured as accurately as metal
> or wood. a fact.
> mel/mn
> training, what a concept. art vs. craft no, training vs. expression. you
> can have both, it just takes work.
>
>
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> written from the farm in wisconsin
Craig Fulladosa on sun 30 apr 00
Mel,
I can appreciate what you are saying. Although the standards I was given were no
quite that strict. My first job was when I was in High School working for a
production pottery. Alot of work but great practice. Probasbly the best thing I
have ever done for gertting better at throwing. I don't go to too many places wh
I can see anyone out throwing me. (I don't get out much). I don't believe there
any substitute for deligent practice and hard work.
You may not remember me Mel, I was at Ft. Worth NCECA, the potter swim coach
from Calif.I emailed you when you were in San Diego at Nottingham but I did not
hear from you. You were probably too busy having fun or just didn't get my messa
Anyway thanks for your posts. Also, I am researching a new material I am selling
which we use in home remodeling that may be very useful to potters as a means fo
contstructing studio countertops. It is GP Block. Gypsum Partition Block. Tongue
and Grooved
20" x 26" x 6 cm plaster blocks. I am not finished testing but will be marketing
perhaps in the future for potters. Iam very curious if any of you have ever seen
this product anywhere, if you have I would be surprised. But then again this
discussion group always amazes me.I am curious to know what you , Vince Pitelka,
Jon Kaplan, Louis Katz, Burkette, Sondahl, Roy, Dave Hendley or the half dozen o
more viejitos (gurus) have to say about this stuff.It is treated with a silicone
additive to make it resistant to water damage. However, I believe it still has s
absorption qualities. It is a real nice, solid surface to work on.
Here is a my business site that needs updating and improving but nonetheless
has some pictures of the material. There are a few examples of the block but I w
be featuring a much better page about the material in a short while.
www.gpblock.lookscool.com
Let me know what you think, dudes and dudettes.
Craig
http://home.earthlink.net/~craigfull
Karen Terpstra on sun 30 apr 00
Hi Mel,
I agree wholeheartedly. Witnessing the discipline of a trained Japanese potter i
breathtaking. One of the most, if not THE most educational workshops we have ha
here in La Crosse a couple years ago was with Ryoji Koie and 3 of his apprentice
What Mr. Koie showed us in 3 days was incredible expressive work that came from
trained hands and mind. In those 3 days he made enough work to fill a gallery wi
jars, water buckets, tea bowls, platters, etc. Beginners were asking, "how does
do that without even centering?" All I could think of to say was that Mr. Koie
"beyond" using any prescribed techniques because of his devotion to earlier
training. The last day was equally enlightening to all of us when the audience
asked the apprentices to demonstrate on the wheel. They threw perfectly formed
bowls off the hump with both speed and precision. Dozens in a matter of minutes
the while with Mr. Koie watching through the corner of his eye. It was evident
well they were on their way to a standard of excellence through their training a
mindful of expression at the same time. It was clearly shown to us how disciplin
and plain ole hard work pays off. Sometimes the dilemma here is the students
workload whether it's classes or partime/fulltime job responsibilities however,
determined ones find a way. In your words, "training, what a concept. art vs. cr
no, training vs. expression. you can have both, it just takes work". Our quote f
this week at LaX. Thank you.
Karen
Karen Terpstra
Assistant Professor of Art/Ceramics
University of Wisconsin-La Crosse
1725 State Street
La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on mon 1 may 00
------------------
Dear Clayarters,
isn't it amazing that it has to be stated that learning to throw =
(repetition)
makes you a better thrower. A stunning insight.
I also find it amazing that repetition throwing in Japan is supposed to be
better than anywhere else in the world. Japan has produced many wonderful
potters, and will continue to do so. There are also other potters around the
world that produce wonderful pottery. Just ask Koreans who taught the =
Japanese
about pottery=21
Every country around the world has a pottery tradition - some more than =
others I
agree - but all are based on the good old learning process of repeat =
throwing.
Not every potter is a great potter, but not every great potter is a good =
potter.
Beware the Emperors clothes.
Happy potting Marek http://www.moley.uk.com
Kathi LeSueur on mon 1 may 00
In a message dated 4/30/00 4:47:56 PM, kcp1@indigo.ie writes:
<< I agree about the benefits of practice. But I'm curious, do you think
the quality of the work from Mr. Uchida's pottery bennefited from his
insistence on exact copies? Why didn't he just make a mold, tradition?
The scene you describe sounds rather sterile to these western ears.
What was your reaction to it? >>
If he'd made a mold the bowls wouldn't have been "handmade". But they were
"mass-produced". In my opinion production such as this makes the whole
"handmade" discussion rather riduculus. Four thousand identical bowls made by
hand or machine is still mass produced.
Kathi LeSueur
Ann Arbor, MI
Cantello Studios on mon 1 may 00
I feel the need to say that Precision Throwing is a trap. That s not to say
that you should not know how, quite the opposite is true. I feel that any
one that works with clay should be good at throwing, precision is over kill
for most but the wheel is a great tool. To not know how to use it to the
best of your ability is your lost. I have been throwing for 26 years and
every thing that comes out of the studio sells. It s hard work and I don t
like to be tied to the wheel, but it s a great tool and I love it. So keep
the creativity moving and use all the tools you can find and if you can t
find one that will work then stop and take the time to make it, if you do
this you will all ways be in the front of the pack and well respected for
your talents. I say use it or loose it but keep the mud flying. Chris from
Northern California where the garden is looking great and the start of the
shows is 14 days away.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of Janet Kaiser
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 1:48 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: precision throwing
Paul Lewing on mon 1 may 00
Someone asked why Mr. Uchida didn't just make a mold if he wanted 4000
identical teabowls instead of having Mel and his other apprentices throw
them. It wasn't because that was the traditional way to do it, it was
because that was the fastest and easiest way to do it.
If he'd wanted to mold them, he'd have had to make a master, let it dry,
fire it, make a master mold, let it cure, make probably 100 or so
working molds off that, let them cure, pour them (which if he had 100
molds would have taken 40 days or so since you can't really get more
than one casting a day out of a mold). And how long did Mel say it took
the four throwers to make those 4000 teabowls? Three days, or was it
four? Much faster, much more efficient.
If you've never seen someone throw like that, it would truly amaze you.
And the Japanese are certainly not the only people who can do it.
Pacific Stoneware in Portland OR used to expect their throwers to throw
300 pounds of clay a day. If you were making 1-pound mugs, you made 300
of them. Three-pound bowls? You made 100 of them.
Ken Ferguson told me one time about a guy he knew who ran a pottery
business in Virginia making early-American reproductions. He hired
high-school dropouts from the slums of Richmond, expected any one of
them to be making 100 jugs a day inside of two weeks. Said he'd trained
dozens of these kids to do that over the years.
It's not magic. Anyone who wants to learn to throw that way can do it.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
iandol on mon 1 may 00
------------------
Thank you Mel Jacobson for those insights into the life and style of
manufacturing and labour relations which were common in a pre mechanised, =
pre
computer, pre robotics age. I recall as a teenager working in a bread =
factory,
doing the night shift, folding rolls of dough and placing them into tins, =
hour
after hour. Zen and the Art of Baking.
In education circles such repetition, called Rote, has been out of favour =
for
many years because it was thought to dull the mind. So now we have people =
who
cannot rapidly recall simple number calculations, who cannot spell, who =
cannot
measure space by eye, estimate weight by heft, pitch a note, pace their =
working
day and who get bored with life.
I was taught that you never sit down and make a set of mugs. Sit down and =
make a
hundred. Handle a hundred. Trim a hundred. Decorate a hundred. Fire and =
glaze a
hundred. Do this for while and then select your sets.
Mel, even thought you threw from the hump and probably still do, I bet you =
can
knock of pieces of clay from a pug and they are all the same weight to less =
than
half an ounce. No need for scales. Craftsmanship, worth the effort and the
tedium.
Now, what about an opionion on the nature of Advanced Throwing Techniques?
All the best,
Ivor.
Stephen Parry-Thomas on tue 2 may 00
Hi ,
Precision throwing? in Stoke - on - Trent its called production throwing
.There are are a few production potteriess making production thrown pottery.
I my self have worked on factories ( Wades Ltd was one ) in the city making
a bottle type container , about 1 litre capacity. We made around 650 - 800
per day. We were / and some are still paid piece work around 12p UK pence
per pot in 1980 ! I still work at a production pottery rate if I did'nt we
couldn't make enough to sell to make a living. The less you make to more you
will have to charge for your work.
There are some tips and notes about production throwing on our web site HREF="www.morrigancraftpottery.co.uk">www.morrigancraftpottery.co.uk .
Stephen & Karen Parry-Thomas.
www.morrigancraftpottery.co.uk .
rickmahaffey on tue 2 may 00
Kathi,
Are those mass produced pots not Art? just wondering. Also I asked my
Japanese potter friend if when he made cups or yunomi or any sets if he
made extras and grouped the most alike ones into sets. He said yes he
did that, too. I noticed that he just a lot less variation in his sets
than I do. :)
Rick Mahaffey
Tacoma, Washington, USA
Kathi LeSueur wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> In a message dated 4/30/00 4:47:56 PM, kcp1@indigo.ie writes:
>
> << I agree about the benefits of practice. But I'm curious, do you think
> the quality of the work from Mr. Uchida's pottery bennefited from his
> insistence on exact copies? Why didn't he just make a mold, tradition?
> The scene you describe sounds rather sterile to these western ears.
> What was your reaction to it? >>
>
> If he'd made a mold the bowls wouldn't have been "handmade". But they were
> "mass-produced". In my opinion production such as this makes the whole
> "handmade" discussion rather riduculus. Four thousand identical bowls made by
> hand or machine is still mass produced.
>
> Kathi LeSueur
> Ann Arbor, MI
Earl Brunner on tue 2 may 00
It is amazing indeed, but look at all the posts that seek in
someway to
weasel out of it. Most people don't want to do the time, pay
the dues.
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> ------------------
> Dear Clayarters,
>
> isn't it amazing that it has to be stated that learning to throw (repetition)
> makes you a better thrower. A stunning insight.
> I also find it amazing that repetition throwing in Japan is supposed to be
> better than anywhere else in the world. Japan has produced many wonderful
> potters, and will continue to do so. There are also other potters around the
> world that produce wonderful pottery. Just ask Koreans who taught the Japanese
> about pottery!
> Every country around the world has a pottery tradition - some more than others
> agree - but all are based on the good old learning process of repeat throwing.
> Not every potter is a great potter, but not every great potter is a good potte
> Beware the Emperors clothes.
>
> Happy potting Marek http://www.moley.uk.com
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Kathi LeSueur on wed 3 may 00
In a message dated 5/2/00 2:55:34 PM, rickmahaffey@home.com writes:
<< Kathi,
Are those mass produced pots not Art? just wondering. >>
Heck, I don't know. I've never claimed to know what art is. I just buy what I
like and enjoy it. I try to let others do the same thing even when their
choices are things I would put in the trash heap.
Kathi LeSueur
Ann Arbor, MI
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