John Hesselberth on sat 6 may 00
John & Anne Worner wrote:
>I got the original recipe from a friend, but it was totally unbalanced,
>and crazed on my clay. I have played with it until it is
>unrecongnizable
>from the original. Is it "kosher" to rename the recipe to AW.....??
>I really feel that when people change a recipe they should get credit
>for it - this goes for everyone and I guess it could be a subject for
>discussion.
Anne raises an interesting question here. At what point does a glaze you
modify deserve a new name and are you free to name it anything you want
or should you somehow credit the name of the original glaze. Any
thoughts on what would be fair and appropriate?
My own practice has been to give the glaze a new name, but to attach a
note saying that the glaze was derived from (original name) and modified
to (whatever problem I fixed or characteristic I have changed whether
that be color, expansion, stability, etc.). Obviously as a glaze travels,
though, that appendage more than likely gets lost.
But what if you are using a base glaze someone else has developed and
just formulated a color variant. If I am using the exact base glaze (for
examply Tony Hansen's 5-20s) I would tend to call it, for example, "5-20s
sea green". If I have modified the base then I revert to the paragraph
above.
What do other glaze developers/modifiers do???
John Hesselberth
Frog Pond Pottery
P.O. Box 88
Pocopson, PA 19366 USA
EMail: john@frogpondpottery.com web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com
"Pots, like other forms of art, are human expressions: pleasure, pain or
indifference before them depends upon their natures, and their natures
are inevitably projections of the minds of their creators." Bernard
Leach, A Potter's Book.
Tom Buck on mon 8 may 00
John H:
Yes, let's rename the glaze if we tweak it enough, but always add
"from Piepenberg" or other innovator. And sure if all I do is add colour
it is still Tony's recipe.
til later. Peace. Tom.
Tom Buck ) tel: 905-389-2339
(westend Lake Ontario, province of Ontario, Canada).
mailing address: 373 East 43rd Street,
Hamilton ON L8T 3E1 Canada
Dannon Rhudy on mon 8 may 00
At 11:05 PM 5/6/00 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message-------------------------
>
>examply Tony Hansen's 5-20s) I would tend to call it, for example, "5-20s
>sea green". If I have modified the base then I revert to the paragraph
>above.
>
>What do other glaze developers/modifiers do???
>-----------------------------------------------------
When I modify a glaze to fit my clay and uses, I retain
the original name, if I know what it is, and add such
information as seems pertinent. All the glazes used here
in the classroom have the name of the glaze, the recipe,
and modifications if any placed in a plastic sleeve and
taped to the glaze bucket. For instance, I have spent the
past few months modifying a Sung base glaze to achieve a
particular color palette that I want. The original glaze
was from Nigel Wood, a re-make of an ancient Chinese glaze.
Handed on by Mel Jacobson. The buckets (and files) are labeled:
Sung Base (Wood/Jacobson): Amethyst (or whatever) with
the recipe, modified, plus colorants. I do this partly
to remind the students that glazes don't appear by magic
or from the "glaze store". But mostly, because I want
to remember, for myself, the history.
But - for the most part, glazes change so much and so
frequently that calling something "Shaner's Green" may
or may not have any validity. Often the original is so
far from what we have acquired that the first maker does
not have a clue where it came from.
If you want to name a glaze for yourself, go for it.
I've seen a gazillion glazes named for this or that
unknown person, that are essentially or even totally
Val Cushing glazes- most don't know, and in fact
don't care. They only want the glaze to work, do
what they want. - It's nothing to worry over, all
things considered.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
Louis Katz on mon 8 may 00
Ah, better a different name. Notes are fine, give credit where credit is
due. I remember Wertz Carbon Trap, Wirtz Carbon Trap, Wertz revised Carbon
Trap, Wertz Carbon Trap revised.
Son of Tarzan Returns to find the Inca Princess in the Lost Temple.
Louis
John Hesselberth wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> John & Anne Worner wrote:
>
> >I got the original recipe from a friend, but it was totally unbalanced,
> >and crazed on my clay. I have played with it until it is
> >unrecongnizable
> >from the original. Is it "kosher" to rename the recipe to AW.....??
> >I really feel that when people change a recipe they should get credit
> >for it - this goes for everyone and I guess it could be a subject for
> >discussion.
>
> Anne raises an interesting question here. At what point does a glaze you
> modify deserve a new name and are you free to name it anything you want
> or should you somehow credit the name of the original glaze. Any
> thoughts on what would be fair and appropriate?
>
> My own practice has been to give the glaze a new name, but to attach a
> note saying that the glaze was derived from (original name) and modified
> to (whatever problem I fixed or characteristic I have changed whether
> that be color, expansion, stability, etc.). Obviously as a glaze travels,
> though, that appendage more than likely gets lost.
>
> But what if you are using a base glaze someone else has developed and
> just formulated a color variant. If I am using the exact base glaze (for
> examply Tony Hansen's 5-20s) I would tend to call it, for example, "5-20s
> sea green". If I have modified the base then I revert to the paragraph
> above.
>
> What do other glaze developers/modifiers do???
>
> John Hesselberth
> Frog Pond Pottery
> P.O. Box 88
> Pocopson, PA 19366 USA
> EMail: john@frogpondpottery.com web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com
>
> "Pots, like other forms of art, are human expressions: pleasure, pain or
> indifference before them depends upon their natures, and their natures
> are inevitably projections of the minds of their creators." Bernard
> Leach, A Potter's Book.
Randall Moody on tue 9 may 00
What about glazes that are mis-represented in the name? I had a 'red' that
was billed as a great red and if you increased the bone ash percentage it
was supposed to look like a copper red. No matter what I did to it I could
only get brown. At the best a brickish colored brown.
I also have a problem with 'flighty' names such as Touch of Moon. It is not
very informative even though it sounds vaguely poetic. Where do others stand
on this? I am open to having my mind changed. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Buck
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: Naming/Renaming Glazes
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> John H:
> Yes, let's rename the glaze if we tweak it enough, but always add
> "from Piepenberg" or other innovator. And sure if all I do is add colour
> it is still Tony's recipe.
> til later. Peace. Tom.
>
> Tom Buck ) tel: 905-389-2339
> (westend Lake Ontario, province of Ontario, Canada).
> mailing address: 373 East 43rd Street,
> Hamilton ON L8T 3E1 Canada
Ray Aldridge on wed 10 may 00
At 02:12 PM 5/9/00 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>What about glazes that are mis-represented in the name? I had a 'red' that
>was billed as a great red and if you increased the bone ash percentage it
>was supposed to look like a copper red. No matter what I did to it I could
>only get brown. At the best a brickish colored brown.
>I also have a problem with 'flighty' names such as Touch of Moon. It is not
>very informative even though it sounds vaguely poetic. Where do others stand
>on this? I am open to having my mind changed. :)
I have to admit that all my glazes are a long way in time and composition
from the glazes I started out with, though for years they had vestigial
names, like Hopper's Modified Porcelain, or Rhodes's Revised Dolomite Matte.
But nowadays my buckets tend to be marked with the testing program numbers.
For example, the glaze I call Hundred Fathom Blue is in a bucket marked
NTTB1A13. Surf Line Blue is an alias for FM-20.
Pretty unromantic, I guess.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
Dannon Rhudy on wed 10 may 00
At 02:12 PM 5/9/00 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>...What about glazes that are mis-represented in the name? ...
billed as a great red and if you increased the bone ash
percentage it was supposed to look like a copper red. No matter what I did
to it I could
>only get brown. At the best a brickish colored brown.....
.............................
Well, we can't control what folk choose to call their
glazes. It's a personal sort of thing. I could call
a glaze "Aunt Tillie's Tush" and it would be meaningless
in terms of describing the glaze. Many titles are just
that - without descriptive meaning.
As to your "red" that is always brown - that's an iron
red glaze, possibly even Shaner's red, which gets redder,
theoretically, with additional bone ash. Iron reds are
difficult to achieve, and need long cooling cycles to
develop, and not too much reduction. Since my kiln is
inclined to reduce heavily by ^10, I have a difficult
time with iron reds. It's not the recipes, nor the water,
as I have recipes that make gorgeous iron reds. Elsewhere.
Mine mostly turn chocolate brown, in this particular
kiln. A sad state of affairs. The Kansas City iron
red, Ron Roy's Iron red, Doug Gray's iron red - they
mostly just stay in the bucket, ignored by all save those
who really truly lust after a chocolate brown glaze.
I'm thinking of having a once-a-year iron-red firing,
where I can mess with the kiln until it does what iron
reds like.
Term nearly done, one more critique!
regards
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
>I also have a problem with 'flighty' names such as Touch of Moon. It is not
>very informative even though it sounds vaguely poetic. Where do others stand
>on this? I am open to having my mind changed. :)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Tom Buck
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 11:15 PM
>Subject: Re: Naming/Renaming Glazes
>
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> John H:
>> Yes, let's rename the glaze if we tweak it enough, but always add
>> "from Piepenberg" or other innovator. And sure if all I do is add colour
>> it is still Tony's recipe.
>> til later. Peace. Tom.
>>
>> Tom Buck ) tel: 905-389-2339
>> (westend Lake Ontario, province of Ontario, Canada).
>> mailing address: 373 East 43rd Street,
>> Hamilton ON L8T 3E1 Canada
>
John Post on wed 10 may 00
Hi Randall,
>What about glazes that are mis-represented in the name? I had a 'red' that
>was billed as a great red and if you increased the bone ash percentage it
>was supposed to look like a copper red. No matter what I did to it I could
>only get brown. At the best a brickish colored brown.
This glaze was named 'red' because it fired red in someone else's kiln.
The reason why iron reds often fail is because electric kilns are
under-insulated and cool too quickly. The iron needs to precipitate to the
surface of the glaze during cooling. It does this between 1800-1300
degrees F on the cool down. Small iron crystals grow and the surface of
the glaze turns red. I use a computer controller to "fire down" between
1800-1300 degrees F. I cool at a rate of 75 degrees per hour in that temp
range.
If you can control the rate at which your kiln cools you will have better
luck getting iron reds. The bone ash helps. I use 9-10% in my iron red.
I also have an iron red that works in a quick cool down, but it needs 16%
iron instead of the 8% that I use in the controlled cooling. If you
increase the iron, you may get more precipitating to the surface during
your cooling cycle. I would keep adding iron in 2% increments until you
found an amount that made red work in your kiln with your firing schedule.
>I also have a problem with 'flighty' names such as Touch of Moon. It is not
>very informative even though it sounds vaguely poetic. Where do others stand
>on this?
Flighty names don't often tell us much about a glaze, but they do make it
easy to remember the name in a community studio. I had a cranberry glaze I
called PMSP because I combined Brian Kemp's Purple Mauve and Strong Pink to
get it. PM = Purple mauve, SP = Strong Pink. The glaze was a 50/50 mix of
Kemp's originals. My friend Faith started calling this glaze PMS. Now at
the community studio she works at, she has everyone calling this glaze PMS.
Just the way she says P-M-S makes me laugh. The glaze lost some of it's
history in it's renaming, but every student knows the name of this glaze...
In my studio I do like to keep the names logical and related to what they
look like. Short names too, so they are easy to write on test tiles. But
students like the flighty names. When I was teaching in middle school and
would have a container of glaze that wasn't being used, I would tear off
it's label and write "Mystery Glaze - ONLY for the BRAVE" on the side of
it. It would be gone by the end of the day. Kids...gotta love em. They
love taking chances, they're not afraid of a little adventure.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan USA
waverock@c3net.net
Sharon31 on thu 11 may 00
There are two very important reasons, why to connect a glaze to the
fellow how created it. The first,is, because we all work hard to develop
them and should give some respect for the hard work!
The second-and not less important - from more selfish point of view - to
avoid making: "This new Raku glaze I found in ...", several times. Since I
realized it, every glaze I make, even , when it is away from the original, I
write to myself, were it comes from, or at least on the name there is a hint
to it.(The same, when I translate the name to Hebrew.) Among them:Some
glazes that came from20/5: they get TH (Tony Hansen), Or Great..., glazes
from Frank Gaydos some very good ones from Marty Anderson and so on.
Ababi
sharon@shoval.org.il
http://www.israelceramics.org/main.asp?what=gallery.htm
http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hesselberth
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 06:05
Subject: Naming/Renaming Glazes
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> John & Anne Worner wrote:
>
> >I got the original recipe from a friend, but it was totally unbalanced,
> >and crazed on my clay. I have played with it until it is
> >unrecongnizable
> >from the original. Is it "kosher" to rename the recipe to AW.....??
> >I really feel that when people change a recipe they should get credit
> >for it - this goes for everyone and I guess it could be a subject for
> >discussion.
>
> Anne raises an interesting question here. At what point does a glaze you
> modify deserve a new name and are you free to name it anything you want
> or should you somehow credit the name of the original glaze. Any
> thoughts on what would be fair and appropriate?
>
> My own practice has been to give the glaze a new name, but to attach a
> note saying that the glaze was derived from (original name) and modified
> to (whatever problem I fixed or characteristic I have changed whether
> that be color, expansion, stability, etc.). Obviously as a glaze travels,
> though, that appendage more than likely gets lost.
>
> But what if you are using a base glaze someone else has developed and
> just formulated a color variant. If I am using the exact base glaze (for
> examply Tony Hansen's 5-20s) I would tend to call it, for example, "5-20s
> sea green". If I have modified the base then I revert to the paragraph
> above.
>
> What do other glaze developers/modifiers do???
>
> John Hesselberth
> Frog Pond Pottery
> P.O. Box 88
> Pocopson, PA 19366 USA
> EMail: john@frogpondpottery.com web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com
>
> "Pots, like other forms of art, are human expressions: pleasure, pain or
> indifference before them depends upon their natures, and their natures
> are inevitably projections of the minds of their creators." Bernard
> Leach, A Potter's Book.
Marcia Selsor on thu 11 may 00
The first glaze on my list was our Sexy Black. Looks like satin and is
great to the touch.
Waxy white is a "sensible" (always reminds me of orthopedic
shoes-sensible) texture for food and good to the touch.
Moss Black is caramel except where thick and it runs when it is that thick!
I like the one's with names in them, -Paul's yellow, etc. Reminds me of
former students or old school chums.
Raku glazes really go off the deep end. -"tutti Frutti"-?!!Reynolds
Wrap-my students expected silver.
Have a good end of semester,Dannon. We've been out for a week.
Marcia in Montana
Dannon Rhudy wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> At 02:12 PM 5/9/00 EDT, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >...What about glazes that are mis-represented in the name? ...
> billed as a great red and if you increased the bone ash
> percentage it was supposed to look like a copper red. No matter what I did
> to it I could
> >only get brown. At the best a brickish colored brown.....
> .............................
>
> Well, we can't control what folk choose to call their
> glazes. It's a personal sort of thing. I could call
> a glaze "Aunt Tillie's Tush" and it would be meaningless
> in terms of describing the glaze. Many titles are just
> that - without descriptive meaning.
>
> As to your "red" that is always brown - that's an iron
> red glaze, possibly even Shaner's red, which gets redder,
> theoretically, with additional bone ash. Iron reds are
> difficult to achieve, and need long cooling cycles to
> develop, and not too much reduction. Since my kiln is
> inclined to reduce heavily by ^10, I have a difficult
> time with iron reds. It's not the recipes, nor the water,
> as I have recipes that make gorgeous iron reds. Elsewhere.
> Mine mostly turn chocolate brown, in this particular
> kiln. A sad state of affairs. The Kansas City iron
> red, Ron Roy's Iron red, Doug Gray's iron red - they
> mostly just stay in the bucket, ignored by all save those
> who really truly lust after a chocolate brown glaze.
> I'm thinking of having a once-a-year iron-red firing,
> where I can mess with the kiln until it does what iron
> reds like.
>
> Term nearly done, one more critique!
>
> regards
>
> Dannon Rhudy
> potter@koyote.com
>
> >I also have a problem with 'flighty' names such as Touch of Moon. It is not
> >very informative even though it sounds vaguely poetic. Where do others stand
> >on this? I am open to having my mind changed. :)
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Tom Buck
> >To:
> >Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 11:15 PM
> >Subject: Re: Naming/Renaming Glazes
> >
> >
> >> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >> John H:
> >> Yes, let's rename the glaze if we tweak it enough, but always add
> >> "from Piepenberg" or other innovator. And sure if all I do is add colour
> >> it is still Tony's recipe.
> >> til later. Peace. Tom.
> >>
> >> Tom Buck ) tel: 905-389-2339
> >> (westend Lake Ontario, province of Ontario, Canada).
> >> mailing address: 373 East 43rd Street,
> >> Hamilton ON L8T 3E1 Canada
> >
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/spain99.html
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/selsor/welcome.html
Hank Murrow on thu 11 may 00
>----------------------------Original message---------------------------->
>As to your "red" that is always brown - that's an iron
>red glaze, possibly even Shaner's red, which gets redder,
>theoretically, with additional bone ash. Iron reds are
>difficult to achieve, and need long cooling cycles to
>develop, and not too much reduction. Since my kiln is
>inclined to reduce heavily by ^10, I have a difficult
>time with iron reds. It's not the recipes, nor the water,
>as I have recipes that make gorgeous iron reds. Elsewhere.
>Mine mostly turn chocolate brown, in this particular
>kiln. A sad state of affairs. The Kansas City iron
>red, Ron Roy's Iron red, Doug Gray's iron red - they
>mostly just stay in the bucket, ignored by all save those
>who really truly lust after a chocolate brown glaze.
>I'm thinking of having a once-a-year iron-red firing,
>where I can mess with the kiln until it does what iron
>reds like.
>Dannon Rhudy
Dear Dannon; I have a suggestion to clear up those iron reds. Just fire
them to maturity, close up the kiln, wait until it has cooled to around
2000F; and then start it up again at a lower gas pressure, such that it
will hold that temperature (need an Oxyprobe or other thermocouple for
this). Dropping down to this temperature won't affect the cones at all. The
kiln should be in oxidation during this soaking period, no flame at all
from the top peeps. My bet is that you'll find lovely iron reds upon
opening the kiln; you just need to add this step.
Let me know if you try it, Hank in Eugene
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