Ian Macmillan on wed 10 may 00
I have received a sample pack of Laguna Borate, and have every intention of
trying it in some glazes.
I was rather perturbed, however, when I phoned Laguna Clay to get an oxide
analysis to use in my glaze calculation program, and was told that they
would not supply this information. I was told to use the formula for
gerstley as it would be good enough. It strikes me that a serious glaze
maker would want the precise analysis, and that if they are not willing to
supply it, they are not interested in serious usage of this material. It
would also be nice to know the form of borate in terms of solubility, but
the material came with no documentation whatever.
Ian
John & Anne Worner on thu 11 may 00
Here is the information I got from Laguna:
Hi Anne- If you need the MSDS I'll be happy to fax you one --Here is the
mol. eqiv. form
Na2O-.136,K2O-.032,CaO-.713,
MgO-.119,Al2O3-.168,SiO2-.662
B2O3-.839,TiO2-.002,Fe2O3-.001
Jon Pacini
Clay Manager
Laguna Clay Co
Ian Macmillan wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have received a sample pack of Laguna Borate, and have every intention of
> trying it in some glazes.
> I was rather perturbed, however, when I phoned Laguna Clay to get an oxide
> analysis to use in my glaze calculation program, and was told that they
> would not supply this information. I was told to use the formula for
> gerstley as it would be good enough. It strikes me that a serious glaze
> maker would want the precise analysis, and that if they are not willing to
> supply it, they are not interested in serious usage of this material. It
> would also be nice to know the form of borate in terms of solubility, but
> the material came with no documentation whatever.
>
> Ian
Earl Brunner on thu 11 may 00
Ian, I too was curious about the new substitutes. I asked on
this list the other day about solubility concerns with the
substitutions that several vendors are coming out with. I
received the following from Jon Pacini at Laguna. I
consider their refusal to give out an analysis (protecting
trade secrets) a regrettable mistake on their part.
Responsible potters formulating glazes need to know what
they are doing.:
Hi Earl-----I'm not sure why you're concerned with the boron
solubility of the substitute GB materials. Most of the
problems associated with GB are not caused by the boron
content of
GB being soluble. It is the plate like particle shape of GB
in combination with the soluble sodium that makes glazes act
more like slip,(or jello sometimes) than glazes made without
GB.
Also the seemingly infinite variety of it's composition.
Colemanite and Cady cal (which have similar boron
contents but a different crystalline structure) do not
produce any where near the flocculation problems in glazes
the way GB does.
Cady cal will actually go right to the bottom of a prepared
glaze much like a frit.
A well conceived substitute material will take into
account all the elements that make up the positive traits of
GB and use minerals rather than frits as substitute
components. Not only
will this keep the cost down, but frits seem to be quite
sterile, where as minerals give 'life' to a glaze. This
combination of minerals should also make the new material
much more uniform
than GB has ever been.
I'm not sure how the others working on this problem
feel, but having seen many minerals disappear over the last
30yrs, perfect substitutes are very rare. For example, GB
has never
been a satisfactory substitute for Colemanite. But it has
gotten a life of it's own. Young potters who have always
used GB should have see the scramble to replace Colemanite!
How it
was lamented that GB was the only substitute other than a
frit.
The substitute we are now field testing has shown good
color response and fluxing action in the 50 or so glazes I
have tested it in here at our Lab. Will it work for every
glaze, under all
conditions? I don't labor under the illusion that that is a
possibility. I do think that it is a better material than GB
ever has been.
Jon Pacini
Clay Manager
Laguna Clay Co.
Ian Macmillan wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I have received a sample pack of Laguna Borate, and have every intention of
> trying it in some glazes.
> I was rather perturbed, however, when I phoned Laguna Clay to get an oxide
> analysis to use in my glaze calculation program, and was told that they
> would not supply this information. I was told to use the formula for
> gerstley as it would be good enough. It strikes me that a serious glaze
> maker would want the precise analysis, and that if they are not willing to
> supply it, they are not interested in serious usage of this material. It
> would also be nice to know the form of borate in terms of solubility, but
> the material came with no documentation whatever.
>
> Ian
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Khaimraj Seepersad on thu 11 may 00
Good Day to All ,
Ian ,
have the stuff analysed , nothing worse than working with
" cat in bag " , as we say down here .
This is a nasty practice , after all the glaze calculations , and
other scientific improvements found within this group -----
is a big step ---- backwards .
Ask Mary Simmons if she could do it for you .
Khaimraj Seepersad
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Macmillan
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: 10 May 2000 20:02
Subject: Laguna Borate
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I have received a sample pack of Laguna Borate, and have every intention of
trying it in some glazes.
I was rather perturbed, however, when I phoned Laguna Clay to get an oxide
analysis to use in my glaze calculation program, and was told that they
would not supply this information. I was told to use the formula for
gerstley as it would be good enough. It strikes me that a serious glaze
maker would want the precise analysis, and that if they are not willing to
supply it, they are not interested in serious usage of this material. It
would also be nice to know the form of borate in terms of solubility, but
the material came with no documentation whatever.
Ian
Cantello Studios on thu 11 may 00
Could this be Gerstley Borate re-bagged? Must be if Mother said to use the
old formula,its close enough.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU]On Behalf
Of Ian Macmillan
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 8:01 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Laguna Borate
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I have received a sample pack of Laguna Borate, and have every intention of
trying it in some glazes.
I was rather perturbed, however, when I phoned Laguna Clay to get an oxide
analysis to use in my glaze calculation program, and was told that they
would not supply this information. I was told to use the formula for
gerstley as it would be good enough. It strikes me that a serious glaze
maker would want the precise analysis, and that if they are not willing to
supply it, they are not interested in serious usage of this material. It
would also be nice to know the form of borate in terms of solubility, but
the material came with no documentation whatever.
Ian
mary simmons on fri 12 may 00
Oh, All Right!!!
Ian--send me ten grams, I'll analyze it and post results to the list.
Community service......
send it to:
Mary Simmons
Dept of Earth & Planetary Sciences
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM 87131-1116
At 05:39 PM 5/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Good Day to All ,
>
>Ian ,
>
>have the stuff analysed , nothing worse than working with
>" cat in bag " , as we say down here .
>This is a nasty practice , after all the glaze calculations , and
>other scientific improvements found within this group -----
>is a big step ---- backwards .
>
>Ask Mary Simmons if she could do it for you .
>Khaimraj Seepersad
>
Ron Roy on fri 12 may 00
Right on Khaimraj,
If we are to use this matrial we need a proper analysis including LOI -
otherwise we cannot use it in our calculation programs. If the idea is to
sell more of it I would advise them to publish an accurate analysis
forthwith.
A unity formula simply is not good enough.
RR
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Good Day to All ,
>
>Ian ,
>
>have the stuff analysed , nothing worse than working with
>" cat in bag " , as we say down here .
>This is a nasty practice , after all the glaze calculations , and
>other scientific improvements found within this group -----
>is a big step ---- backwards .
>
>Ask Mary Simmons if she could do it for you .
>Khaimraj Seepersad
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ian Macmillan
>To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
>Date: 10 May 2000 20:02
>Subject: Laguna Borate
>
>
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have received a sample pack of Laguna Borate, and have every intention of
>trying it in some glazes.
>I was rather perturbed, however, when I phoned Laguna Clay to get an oxide
>analysis to use in my glaze calculation program, and was told that they
>would not supply this information. I was told to use the formula for
>gerstley as it would be good enough. It strikes me that a serious glaze
>maker would want the precise analysis, and that if they are not willing to
>supply it, they are not interested in serious usage of this material. It
>would also be nice to know the form of borate in terms of solubility, but
>the material came with no documentation whatever.
>
>Ian
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Diane G. Echlin on tue 16 may 00
Hey folks!
I just received my sample of Laguna Borate and will be mixing up some of
my standard Raku glazes and also some ^6 glaze tests today. I'll keep
you posted on the results, as I am very eager to continue to use some of
these wonderful glazes.
Also, for RR if he's out there: Floating Blue has apparently been tested
and deemed food safe/stable, and I was wondering if this significant a
change in a component would warrant a new test for solubility/leaching,
or if the switch from GB to LB is not such a concern? If I understand
correctly (and I have limited understanding of glaze chemistry) GB is
used as a flux and perhaps for color development, but I'm unclear if it
has any effect on durability. Thanks in advance for you comments!
Di, in Connecticut, where it's finally spring!
Ron Roy on wed 17 may 00
I could guess better if I had an analysis - you will just have to have it
tested I am afraid.
RR
>Hey folks!
>I just received my sample of Laguna Borate and will be mixing up some of
>my standard Raku glazes and also some ^6 glaze tests today. I'll keep
>you posted on the results, as I am very eager to continue to use some of
>these wonderful glazes.
>
>Also, for RR if he's out there: Floating Blue has apparently been tested
>and deemed food safe/stable, and I was wondering if this significant a
>change in a component would warrant a new test for solubility/leaching,
>or if the switch from GB to LB is not such a concern? If I understand
>correctly (and I have limited understanding of glaze chemistry) GB is
>used as a flux and perhaps for color development, but I'm unclear if it
>has any effect on durability. Thanks in advance for you comments!
>Di, in Connecticut, where it's finally spring!
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Don & June MacDonald on sat 27 may 00
Well, I opened the kiln on my first test of Laguna Borate this morning.
Whatever it has in it, it does not do what the old Gerstley did in the
particular iron glaze I was testing. The old gerstley glaze was a red
iron, the new Laguna borate is s... brown. I can see L.B. being a
useful frit type ingredient, good melting, actually the glaze was
shinier than usual, but it made the iron (no change in the batch of
iron) ugly yellow. Figured this glaze would be a toughie!
June from B.C.
Diane G. Echlin on tue 30 may 00
I have a test tile and test mug in the kiln right now with Floating Blue using
Laguna Borate.....Unloading on Wednesday and I'll let you all know. By the way,
application was TERRIBLE with the LB. Way too thick too fast, and even when the
surface felt dry the raw glaze stuck to my fingertips when I picked it up to put it
in the kiln.
Di
Don & June MacDonald wrote:
> Well, I opened the kiln on my first test of Laguna Borate this morning.
> Whatever it has in it, it does not do what the old Gerstley did in the
> particular iron glaze I was testing. The old gerstley glaze was a red
> iron, the new Laguna borate is s... brown. I can see L.B. being a
> useful frit type ingredient, good melting, actually the glaze was
> shinier than usual, but it made the iron (no change in the batch of
> iron) ugly yellow. Figured this glaze would be a toughie!
>
> June from B.C.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
thansen@DIGITALFIRE.COM on wed 31 may 00
--==__==__A8420XZ382__==__==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have been working with the Laguna Borate also and have updated
the Gerstley Borate information page at
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/material/gerstley.htm
Laguna Borate is not plastic so that will be a problem for suspension.
Its has the same melt flow properties as Gerstley at cone 06 but its
chemistry is quite a bit different so that might be a problem also. There is
a lot of alumina, they must have added some kaolin. They appear to
be using lots of cadycal in the mix.
Don't have LOI for Murray's Borate yet but got a sample yesterday
and will measure it and update the analysis.
--
====================================================
T o n y H a n s e n thansen@digitalfire.com
http://digitalfire.com Calculation/Database Software for Ceramic Industry
http://ceramicsearch.com Search engine for the Ceramic Industry
--
--==__==__A8420XZ382__==__==--
Clive Tucker on mon 16 apr 01
I've been trying to use Laguna Borate in Jacquies matt, cone 04, but big =
crystals form in it after a week or so. They can be sieved out but then =
I lose whatever the crystals are in the glaze. they don't seem to =
dissolve back in again despite lots of drill mixing . any ideas how to =
stop this or perhaps an 04 glaze that is similar and requires no GB
thanks Clove Tucker, Vancouver,Canada
William Moody on thu 19 apr 01
The fine arts center where I am assisting is switching over to Laguna =
Borate from Murray's Borate and Gerstley Borate, but we are having an =
interesting thing occur. When we add the water to a glaze it seems to =
thicken to almost a pudding consistency. It should be noted that we are =
adding about 100 grams of Bentonite per 5000 grams of glaze. Has anyone =
else had this happen? And just what causes it?
Randall in Atlanta
DJMCAVOY@AOL.COM on fri 20 apr 01
I have been adding about 4% bentonite when I switched from gerstley to Laguna
Borate. The glaze starts out just fine in consistency but when it ages for a
few days it becomes water thin and almost unusable. I am experimenting with
CMC as an additive instead of bentonite and seem to be having some success.
Has anyone else experienced this problem? Solutions??
Dennis McAvoy maker of custom stamps for the potter
Smoky Mountain Pottery
744 Powdermill Road
Gatlinburg, TN 37738
865-436-4575
scott lykens on fri 20 apr 01
>Could be your glaze doesnt need 2% bentinite, or perhaps does not need the
>dpecific kind of bentinite in 2% volume weight.
I think they are all a litle bit different from each other, and some are a
little more than others, macaloid to bentinite 149 for instance.
Then again, i always liked how gertley turned to pudding and was sad to see
many subs dont do that very well. I would however be suspicious of the
bentinite and not the laguna borate as i have not heard any one complain
that laguna borate is pudding like.
>
>The fine arts center where I am assisting is switching over to Laguna
>Borate from Murray's Borate and Gerstley Borate, but we are having an
>interesting thing occur. When we add the water to a glaze it seems to
>thicken to almost a pudding consistency. It should be noted that we are
>adding about 100 grams of Bentonite per 5000 grams of glaze. Has anyone
>else had this happen? And just what causes it?
>Randall in Atlanta
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Jon Pacini on mon 23 apr 01
Greetings all--------
One of the main complaints we received about Gerstley Borate over =
the last 30 yr. was that it made glazes thicken up like pudding. So when =
the development of Laguna Borate was under taken it was decided to =
eliminate this difficulty from the equation. =20
With glazes that depended on Gerstley to keep the remaining glaze =
composition in suspension, other agents can readily be added on a glaze =
by glaze basis.=20
Glazes which contain less than 20% Laguna Borate rarely need an =
addition of bentonite. Up to 50% Laguna Borate may take as much as 4% =
bentonite. Above 50% we suggest an addition of 1-1 1/2% bentonite for =
every 10% Laguna Borate.
If your glaze develops a powdery surface with Laguna Borate an =
addition of 1/4- 1/2% CMC gum should resolve this difficulty.
Do not try to add Bentonite or CMC gum as DRY materials to your wet =
glaze. They will immediately lump-up and will not disperse. Either mix =
with the dry glaze or mix thoroughly with water, screen, then add to =
your wet glaze.
These are GENERAL suggestions for additions gathered from the last =
year of field testing. Please remember--EVERY glaze reacts differently =
to substitutions of component minerals---test before you commit to =
production.=20
Jon Pacini
Clay Manager
Laguna Clay Co
=20
| |
|
